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Dedede has the ultimate edgeguard on Ness
- Thread starter Masky
- Start date
The best thing I can think of at the moment is instead of trying to recover immediatly try to save the double jump until your close the stage and when D3 hops down let him hit you and then footstool him.
Or.
Do the same thing except fall abit waiting for him to recover or do his Up-B then do yours. You can get alot of vertical distance with PKT2 last time I checked.
These should hopefully work if D3 doesn't have a spike which I don't think he does but I'm not to sure.
Or.
Do the same thing except fall abit waiting for him to recover or do his Up-B then do yours. You can get alot of vertical distance with PKT2 last time I checked.
These should hopefully work if D3 doesn't have a spike which I don't think he does but I'm not to sure.
Dedede's bair combined with his multiple jumps is as good as a spike on a recovering Ness, lol. And Dedede never has to hop down so far that he's below Ness because he has multiple jumps, he can comfortably hover out of range and slightly higher than Ness until Ness initiates PK Thunder, and since it takes a while to initiate PKT2 Dedede has more than enough time to fall lower and use his up-b. Or maybe I'm just being too pessimistic, he only did it one time and it completely surprised me so maybe there actually is some way around it but I really don't see it
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
After the first back air, you can just get in the way of the PK thunder, and live there, so the PK thunder hits D3, and ness fails to his doom.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I'm pretty sure PKT2 will shread right through Yoshi's and Snake armor as they merely have "heavy armor" I think only Ike and D3 have super armor on their recoveries and Ike's would be impracticle as it only goes straight up so i guess it's just that crazy penguin
Ha, I still can't believe you've heard of my Ness as I think I've only played like 5 kids using him and I'd say I'm decent with him at best
, I've heard of a guy named sketch who uses Ness around here who's pretty good.But as far as the gimping goes...have you tried aiming into where D3 will go and not try to recover? He'll be expecting a recovery shot but when you go higher (like above D3) he might run into you and knock you out of the pkt2 giving you another shot at using the pkt2 (then again I have no idea how much super armor is on D3's UpB thing, is it all the way until the peak? if so then yeah isn't much you can do.
the Lexx
Smash Apprentice
you still take damage with super armor, this seems like a bad idea for DDD.
Ness' won't travel half the distance. However it will be shortened quite a bit. You can still recover though if you space right. I had a dedede do this to me before I didn't die.
25% is nothing if you force a person to lose a stock.
25% is nothing if you force a person to lose a stock.
Browny
Smash Hater
This is not only extremely situational, but risky. Dedede loses his SA frames just before he reaches the peak of his jump, if he misstimes it ever so slightly, hes gone. its far safer to simply jump into the PKT2, which doesnt make dedede any better a gimper than any other character (except olimar lol)
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Protip, you can spot dodge DDD chaing grabs. CI backwards and spot dodge.
To be brutally honest this won't change the matchup that much...
To be brutally honest this won't change the matchup that much...
the Lexx
Smash Apprentice
I'd rather use bair for 0% damage.
thesage
Smash Hero
Well you kinda recovered at the wrong angle anyways. You should only recover with pkt2 from below the stage. A lot of people can edgeguard you then lol. Also don't get grabbed so much.
The Dedede sat on Masky a lot.... As the edge guard it's less effective than how you made it sound.
You should have tried to meteor cancel once Dedede came down on you with his up B. That could have saved you enough time to win the match.
You should have tried to meteor cancel once Dedede came down on you with his up B. That could have saved you enough time to win the match.
I was about to ask this. Dedede can't do an infinite on Ness like Marth and Charizard, right? I don't know if it's wifi, but I usually escape Dedede's chaingrab.
Also, Masky, try using more PSIM stalling instead of using PKT2 right away. I've got a question. Can Dedede use his up + B at an angle while in the air? Because if he can, then your friend might want to start doing that.
Levitas
the moon
No he can't, and yes he can, respectively.
Well then it looks like Dedede should angle himself more often. As you all know I don't play Dedede, but doesn't have have four jumps excluding his up + B? Personally I think the penguin is better off trying to bair Ness because that usually gets to me. That small foot sure has some long range.
Ztarfish
Smash Journeyman
Ness can gimp himself easier by directing a Pk thunder into the other Ness's Pkt2.
It's a little tough, though. But I've gimped other Ness players by using my PKT on their PKT. It felt too good.
True, You got me there.
Anyone know if PKT2 can outprioritize D3's bair? I can't test it myself at the moment. I'm also having trouble with an good edgeguarding D3 myself.As for the general problem the thread was created for I think I found a solution. I'll get some pics up soon.
Levitas
the moon
The sweetspot will outprioritize bair, but Ness's still die.
So while on the topic of D3, what can I do to get through a barrage of Waddle Dees/Doos and Gordos. I'm kind of tired of D3 being able to recycle what he wants to throw! I lost to D3 by him just Goon Farming. I tried PK Fire to make a barricade, didn't work. I tried going aerial on him, he just threw more goons at me! How the heck do I kill this dodgy barrage throwing penguin!
I tried PK Fire to make a barricade, didn't work. I tried going aerial on him, he just threw more goons at me! How the heck do I kill this dodgy barrage throwing penguin! Uffe camp back just stay back and heal off of waddle dees and doos electric attacks. He'll be forced to come closer. When he does just attack. Jump and Air dodge if you have to. Shield the waddle dees and doos. Theres not much you can do if you can't get by. In fact you should be able to get by. There is not much of an excuse for not getting by.
Just get used to it. Try to find a gap in the throws.
If you can't that Dedede is good at tossing those guys.
Just get used to it. Try to find a gap in the throws.
If you can't that Dedede is good at tossing those guys.
Why didn't a barricade work? Barricading always works! Just make sure that you have two waddle dee/doos in the barricade, and walk forward a bit each time you shoot a PK Fire to keep your barricade alive (every time you shoot a PK Fire the barricade will move forward a small amount). If the Dedede tries to jump over to your side of the barricade just walk through it to the side where they were before. Personally I'm usually happy when a Dedede starts spamming waddle dees on stage for this reason...
@ Ref: I was able to get close and I found myself using my RAR on him when he tried dodging. And it worked because he'd dodge, my RAR wouldn't happen instantly and so when his dodging frames or whatever they are came back, he'd get struck. I think the real thing is that it frustrated me and so I couldn't concentrate. Call this no John's or whatever you want, I will not get over this until I own this D3. I will camp back. I will take your advice, Ref and use it against him.
@ Masky: The barricade didn't work because he'd jump and throw his goons. I will use Ref's advice, I will build that camp fire. After that I will push it towards him. Thanks you guys.
@ Masky: The barricade didn't work because he'd jump and throw his goons. I will use Ref's advice, I will build that camp fire. After that I will push it towards him.
Thanks you guys.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I honestly prefer jumping out an hovering over them with my magnet on, oh how fun that is
But yeah, that dedede didn't look all that good. as all he did was throw the whole match. Of course this hasn't stopped me from hearing how good siebrink (spelling?) is. Barricading sounds interesting though, next time a D3 comes up I might have to try my Ness on him just to see how effective it is =D
Oh man that is so messed up! Why haven't I ever thought of this?I honestly prefer jumping out an hovering over them with my magnet on, oh how fun that is
Cazcom
Smash Apprentice
1) You shouldn't have used your second jump so early. It makes your flight path really easy to predict.
2) DDD shouldn't have even bothered attempting that spike. If you are PSI stalling, D3 can hit a really easy B-air in
3) Because of the angle DDD has to be at for that to actually work, just pk fire him. He's pretty much resting perfectly in that spot. Then recover. Or if you've fallen to far to make it to the stage, pkt2 yourself into the burning penguin.
EDIT : As a side note, DeDeDe is my 4th favorite match-up. Firewalk, air-priority, and he's really easy to gimp. The mere thought of having to face a DDD sends me into some sort of pavlovian excitement.
2) DDD shouldn't have even bothered attempting that spike. If you are PSI stalling, D3 can hit a really easy B-air in
3) Because of the angle DDD has to be at for that to actually work, just pk fire him. He's pretty much resting perfectly in that spot. Then recover. Or if you've fallen to far to make it to the stage, pkt2 yourself into the burning penguin.
EDIT : As a side note, DeDeDe is my 4th favorite match-up. Firewalk, air-priority, and he's really easy to gimp. The mere thought of having to face a DDD sends me into some sort of pavlovian excitement.
You wait until you get to the edge, but if you get a chance to get out or if he lets you go make sure to shield/jump/something (don't sidestep, makes it easy to get hit with a dash attack)
And thanks Cazcom and everyone else for the suggestions (even though this wasn't meant to be that kind of thread...), I'll keep them in mind
And thanks Cazcom and everyone else for the suggestions (even though this wasn't meant to be that kind of thread...), I'll keep them in mind
The best thing I've seen done is to DI away from him after his dthrow and sidestep to get out of the chaingrab. Don't spastically press buttons trying to get out or you will lose your double jump as he takes you get to the ledge and the only option you will have left after he stops the chain is to upB.
If you do get out beforehand do what Masky suggested.
If you do get out beforehand do what Masky suggested.
PK Starstorm
Smash Journeyman
Masky, that was some awesome pk fire techs. was that a full hop pk fire into a pk jump? I also noticed you don't pkflag cancel. when you're up at that height, you can cancel the lag by air dodging before you hit the floor. but honestly what were those techs. I could use those against my DDD troubles for more defensive play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwzOPoQYdvk
And yes I know about the lag cancel, and if I didn't do it then it must have been because I screwed up my timing
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
This shouldnt change the matchup to a negative honestly. Dedede has more options to edgeguard, and Ness can still fight back off stage cuz of the fair of god. Dedede's body mass should be enough for him to eat PKT on its own anways.