Decloning Ganon might alienate more people than it pleases

[Quillion]

This may be the reason why they're refusing to make his own moveset, since people have already gotten so used to his "Falcondorf" set that a huge change would be massively confusing to them.

And there are some people who genuinely like Falcondorf and really don't want him to change (though I'm not one of those people).

From my experience, if there are people who demand a change, there are many more people who don't want it.

 

[Nefnoj]

Hear, hear! I think that Ganondorf's moveset should stay as it is... But I think he should perform his attacks with his blade, since he seldom does hand-to-hand combat in any Zelda game.

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

I'd be fine with either honestly. Don't care if he punches and kicks, swings a broadsword or blasts his foes with magic, as long as he's the bruiser we all know and love, I'll be satisfied.

 

[Nefnoj]

I'd be fine with either honestly. Don't care if he punches and kicks, swings a broadsword or blasts his foes with magic, as long as he's the bruiser we all know and love, I'll be satisfied.

I sense a diehard Ganondorf fan...

 

[PKNintendo]

What? No.

What a ridiculous notion.

 

[Storm Eagle]

Change the Warlock punch to a projectile like Arcfire and change the F-Smash to a sword swipe. Everything else can stay imho.

 

[Itora]

As long as they keep his DAir, Warlock Punch, Flame Choke, and UTilt I'd be fine with any other changes.

Most people hate his Utilt, I love it though.

 

[Shogger]

I'm fine with either one. In a perfect world though, I'd get my Falcondorf AND a new one, like Toon Ganon or something with a nice sword-and-magic based moveset.

 

[mangamusicfan]

His moveset is fine how it is now.
don't change it.

 

[Daeyrat]

Change some moves. Keep others.

 

[Kamiko]

We should've gotten two different movesets for him. We have two Links and Zeldas already, might as well throw in another Ganondorf.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Classic Ganon would have been rad.

 

[Quillion]

We should've gotten two different movesets for him. We have two Links and Zeldas already, might as well throw in another Ganondorf.

Or we could have Black Shadow, an actual F-Zero character, have the slow Falcon cloneset.

I'm past the point of caring that a new F-Zero character would be a clone; I just want another F-Zero character.

 

[Kamiko]

Or we could have Black Shadow, an actual F-Zero character, have the slow Falcon cloneset.

I'm past the point of caring that a new F-Zero character would be a clone; I just want another F-Zero character.

Oh I'm definitely a fan of that idea too (as much as I hate the idea of clones), but unfortunately too many people have convinced themselves that this moveset is right for Ganondorf.

 

[Daeyrat]

Black Shadow voice by Norio Wakamoto (from the anime) would make Warlock Punch epic.

 

[e105beta]

Oh I'm definitely a fan of that idea too (as much as I hate the idea of clones), but unfortunately too many people have convinced themselves that this moveset is right for Ganondorf.

I think it's just because people have been playing the moveset since Melee.

IMO, I hated the cloneset when I first unlocked Ganondorf in Melee. Hated it. Given that the only Ganondorf that existed at the time was Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, him being this big, heavy Captain Falcon was totally bizarre. Here was a character that spent all of the game floating around and hurling energy balls at you, and now he was a melee martial artist with a big punch and a cool kick? No thanks.

But here we are, and 13 years later, and he somehow feels like Ganondorf to me. Part of it is definitely Twilight Princess Ganondorf, who has the Sparta Kick and the Flame Choke in TP, but then I watch a video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHuN2CUfQ9c and I ask myself: Why doesn't Ganondorf have Dead Man's volley? Why doesn't Ganondorf have some dark energy wave? Why doesn't Ganondorf have a ground slam shockwave? Why doesn't Ganondorf have a sword slash move? Why doesn't Ganondorf have a teleport? Why is he still elbowing people and throwing out aerial roundhouse kicks? Why does he still have Warlock Punch?

And then I get sad.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Change the Warlock punch to a projectile like Arcfire and change the F-Smash to a sword swipe. Everything else can stay imho.

Taking out his 2 most awesome moves? How about no.

 

[Shogger]

Taking out his 2 most awesome moves? How about no.

I agree with Warlock Punch, but Fsmash is pretty much just a straight-up rip from Captain Falcon's moveset. Nothing special or awesome about it.

 

[TimeSmash]

It would be nice to see Ganondorf with a projectile...

 

[greatbernard]

Replace his Warlock Punch with a sword strike + deflectable energy ball projectile.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Talk of technicalities with gameplay aside I'm fairly convinced most wouldn't complain about it.

It'd probably depend on just how effective his new hypothetical moveset would be, but it definitely wouldn't displease more people than it pleases just off of the idea of giving the main villain of a franchise his own moveset finally.

 

[Quillion]

Replace his Warlock Punch with a sword strike + deflectable energy ball projectile.

I'd rather he have a projectile for his neutral B, then a side B that's pretty much the Mii Swordfighter's Reversal Slash, allowing him to make his own projectile and reflect others.

 

[Knight Dude]

Ganon was given a fair bit of new moves in Brawl. I different Side-B(sort of), Up-Smash, Forward Tilt and Down Tilt. His Jab and Forward Air have always been different too. So he's not a full on clone.

I can understand why some might not want him to change too much. After all, he's had three games under his belt and people did like playing as him, for the most part. I use him from time to time, but I wouldn't call him a main of mine.

Still, I think a few more different moves wouldn't hurt. Maybe a different Forward Smash and Down Smash. Those two are still pretty similar to Captain Falcon after all. Some new Throws and a different Dash attack come to mind.

But I would honestly agree that he should have always had the Tennis Ball of Doom. It's practically his signature attack in the Zelda games. Maybe he can have that as a Standard Special, while his Warlock Punch is his Forward Smash.

Eh, I'm just rambling, don't mind me.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I could not agree more.
I would actually be pretty salty if Ganondorf changed.

 

[Nefnoj]

I could not agree more.
I would actually be pretty salty if Ganondorf changed.

Is... Is "salty" a good thing? Bad? I mean - salt is pretty neutral, makes stuff better, makes stuff worse... Ummm... Yeah.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

Is... Is "salty" a good thing? Bad? I mean - salt is pretty neutral, makes stuff better, makes stuff worse... Ummm... Yeah.

I mean upset. I love his current move set.

 

[Nefnoj]

I mean upset. I love his current move set.

Aaaah, yeah, me too, I still think it'd be awesome if he used a sword for the same moveset, except his kicks and Flame Choke, of course.

Maybe his up special could be switched for a move like Marth's...

 

[Kamiko]

Maybe he can have that as a Standard Special, while his Warlock Punch is his Forward Smash.

My very first act on Smashboards was suggesting exactly this. I can deal with Ganondorf fighting unarmed, but his specials definitely need to be more magical.

 

[Knight Dude]

Aaaah, yeah, me too, I still think it'd be awesome if he used a sword for the same moveset, except his kicks and Flame Choke, of course.

Maybe his up special could be switched for a move like Marth's...

That's one thing Ganon NEEDS to keep. His beefy Kicks. You can't tell me they aren't cool. A Sword uppercut could be cool. Though I was thinking of a damaging teleport as a recovery move. That's a little less common.

My very first act on Smashboards was suggesting exactly this. I can deal with Ganondorf fighting unarmed, but his specials definitely need to be more magical.

Yep. I really think that projectile could help with his playstyle. Mostly as a finishing move of sorts.

 

[Kenith]

I think a good compromise would have been to make Ganondorf's animations look different; they already function differently. Make then look more "brutal". Make Warlock Punch into a projectile. Replace Wizard's Foot with a downward punch that has an AoE. Flame Choke can stay but have it be faster. Dark Dive can be replaced with Trident Dive, which is a short range recovery where Ganondorf grabs a close enemy with a trident and blasts them down.
Lastly, and this is what I want the most, give Ganondorf a float similar to Peach, where he crossed his arms and his cape flows. Sort of like his boss fight in OoT (it could even make the same sound)

 

[Kamiko]

Yep. I really think that projectile could help with his playstyle. Mostly as a finishing move of sorts.

As part of a Zelda boss fight I always imagined Ganondorf knocking you away and then blasting you with an orb before you even hit the ground. If we could do at least that in Smash...

 

[lavagolem123]

I love the big G and all, but I think he needs a re-work badly. I'm glad they differentiated him from Falcon more, but even then, those moves just don't do him justice imo. He runs like he has a back brace on, and the animations look insanely silly for all of his tilts (especially that up tilt...gymnastics ftw), and up-smash. Honestly, almost nothing in his moveset reminds me of Ganon himself. Just about the only things I can imagine him doing are his B moves. For all the talk about unique-ness and originality Sakurai has done, he kinda dropped the ball with Ganon considering the re-works other characters received. That being said, he's still my favorite to play with and is my main, but man...I'd definitely welcome a change.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

I agree with Warlock Punch, but Fsmash is pretty much just a straight-up rip from Captain Falcon's moveset. Nothing special or awesome about it.

Thought he meant forward special

 

[Quillion]

Fsmash, like all moves, should be a strong swipe of the sword.

Maybe it could be that thing in TP where he (IIRC) strikes with his elbow to knock Link off balance and follow up with a spinning slash.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I'd be fine with either honestly. Don't care if he punches and kicks, swings a broadsword or blasts his foes with magic, as long as he's the bruiser we all know and love, I'll be satisfied.

I agree. I would change;
1) Warlock Punch into Dead mans volley
2) Wizard Kick > Wizard blade (same move except he uses his sword for the attack)
3) make all his smashes sword based (For example: Fsmash can be similar to Warlock Blade/custom B 2. Upsmash can be a sword swipe upwards (works similar to his current up smash) and Down smash can be a spin attack of sorts that Ganon spins twice low to the ground with his sword stretched infornt of him.
4) Up B have a bigger magic hitbox at the last hit. Or have him use his sword instead of the hand swipe
5) Nair be a magic attacks that hits from the front and back (somthing better for combos and getting an opponent off of you quickly)
6) Jab combo be 2 hits (his Melee jab + Brawl jab)
7) Up tilt can stay the same BUT have it be his fist that he slams to the ground like in OoT, and there is a wind box and explosion on both sides of Ganondorf.
8) A bit longer grab range with a different pummle attack. And different animation for his throws to make them more unique compared to Falcons. Maybe even a Killing throw at high %.
9) and finally; more magic effects on his aerials. Fair with a streak of darkness as he swings. Bair with a lighting ball at the end of the fist etc.

With this he practically stays the same. Except with a projectile, better smashes, a jab combo and a few better moves. But the play style and the best moves stay pretty much the same.

EDIT: and change his god damned running animation! It needs to be menacing and bad***! Also I think he should run a bit faster. And maybe had a new running attack or just add more magic to his current tackle.

 

[Gamingboy]

Clearly, then, the answer is to bring in BLUE PIG GANON to allow us to play as the King of Evil with magic and such.

 

[Arti]

Solution: Toon Ganondorf.

 

[L9999]

If I were in charge of Ganon this is what I'll do:

• Give him his running animation and speed from Melee. The King of Evil jogging like a fat man looks ridiculous.
• Instead of the Falcon Punch the Volleyball of Death from Ocarina.
• Flame Choke can stay, but speeded up.
• Dark Dive changed into a Shoryuken that explodes on contact, like Mario's Explosive Punch.
• Down B make it the Blue Falcon Kick speeded up and increase it's range. Aerial Kick returns second jump like Melee.
• Foward Smash changed to be Falcon Stab. Shulk has crazy *** range in his F-Smash so why can't Ganon?
• Up Tilt changed to be Up Smash and Up Smash Up Tilt with the charging animation be the Smash charging animation. (Up Tilt sucks)
• Down Smash Ganon slamming his fist into the ground like Ocarina.
• Dash Attack change it to look like Fox's F-Smash with a lot of dark magic effects.
• Side Tilt, Down Tilt, B-Air, F-Air, D-Air, U-Air, N-Air and Jab can stay.

What do you think? A lot of changes but remains familiar enough.

 

[Folt]

Ganon was given a fair bit of new moves in Brawl. I different Side-B(sort of), Up-Smash, Forward Tilt and Down Tilt. His Jab and Forward Air have always been different too. So he's not a full on clone.

I can understand why some might not want him to change too much. After all, he's had three games under his belt and people did like playing as him, for the most part. I use him from time to time, but I wouldn't call him a main of mine.

Still, I think a few more different moves wouldn't hurt. Maybe a different Forward Smash and Down Smash. Those two are still pretty similar to Captain Falcon after all. Some new Throws and a different Dash attack come to mind.

But I would honestly agree that he should have always had the Tennis Ball of Doom. It's practically his signature attack in the Zelda games. Maybe he can have that as a Standard Special, while his Warlock Punch is his Forward Smash.

Eh, I'm just rambling, don't mind me.

If you were playing Ocarina of Time yes, but Ganondorf in the latter games have typically always let someone else do the tennis match (whether through minions or through people he possesses) from Wind Waker and onwards. (He tends to do swordplay as kind of a last resort to, except in Hyrule Warriors, but even there his strongest attacks involve punching.)

As far as his moveset goes, I'm fine with Ganondorf as he is now. He feels very powerful and very Ganondorf. Especially now that custom special moves is a thing (so the Warlock Punch can be a sword move or a magic blast move if you so want). I do agree that we could change the F-Smash or the D-Smash a bit though.

 

[Vanillascout]

If anything, nintendo could add an alt ganon similar to link/toon link. There's plenty of options. Toon ganon, hyrule warriors ganon, pigman wizard ganon, etc.