Decloning Ganon might alienate more people than it pleases

[InfiniteTripping]

I'd say ignorance is no excuse, but oh well. You now know which is the most important thing.



He has been changed yes, but he's been changed in such a way that instead of feeling like a clone of Cpt. Falcon, he basically took those similiarities and made them his own. By For., his neutral attack, tilts, up smash, forward aerial, up-throw, and side special are unique, down smash, down aerial, and Warlock Punch were visually altered, and Dark Dive was also altered to have an attack independent of the grab motions, while Wizard's Foot got a meteor smash effect at the start of the aerial version. His custom specials are also all different from the Captain (though one makes his Side Special resemble his old Side Special move and Cpt. Falcon's by proxy... though having a custom alter the properties of a special to become more like the parent character is a recurring thing with all characters that are semiclones with someone.)

Yeah there's been some changes. I guess my point was I don't think the people that really like Ganon's moveset, like it because it belongs to Ganon. And that they would be more than open to the idea of a more unique Ganon.

 

[Folt]

By now, I can't associate the moveset with anyone other than Ganondorf. He's powerful, he's arrogant, he's fantastic!

 

[n8han11]

I would love to see ol' Ganon get a new moveset and hand over the old moveset to Black Shadow. That would make sense.

 

[Deleted member]

This may be the reason why they're refusing to make his own moveset, since people have already gotten so used to his "Falcondorf" set that a huge change would be massively confusing to them.

And there are some people who genuinely like Falcondorf and really don't want him to change (though I'm not one of those people).

From my experience, if there are people who demand a change, there are many more people who don't want it.

But in my opinion they missed a HUGE opportunity here to please everyone by making his customs more radically different like Palutena. That way, his default would be the familiar Falcondorf, but you could customize him, if desired, to use moves more characteristic of the Demon King (cf. Hyrule Warriors).

But....we didn't get that. Except for Warlock Slash, kinda.

 

[Folt]

To be honest, his custom variants (except maybe Flame Wave) are all pretty different from the good captain's.

 

[Quillion]

But like someone said earlier in this thread: his moves are poor representations of what he does in his home series.

At least with , they had a lot more freedom to do whatever the hell they want, but they do not have that luxury with .

They really have no excuse Brawl onwards, but I think keeping a clone is one of Sakurai's troll moves (and unlike all others, he's been doing that since Brawl instead of 4). That sword taunt cannot be a coincidence.

 

[Folt]

But like someone said earlier in this thread: his moves are poor representations of what he does in his home series.

At least with , they had a lot more freedom to do whatever the hell they want, but they do not have that luxury with .

They really have no excuse Brawl onwards, but I think keeping a clone is one of Sakurai's troll moves (and unlike all others, he's been doing that since Brawl instead of 4). That sword taunt cannot be a coincidence.

Sakurai has as much luxury to do what he wants with the characters, so long as they make sense.

As far as Ganondorf goes, he's overwhelming power is here, he uses dark-elemental attacks, and his sword gets representation in one way or another. He's feels like Ganondorf, and that's good.

(Also, Ganondorf is not so much a clone as he is a semiclone of the captain.)

 

[Quillion]

(Also, Ganondorf is not so much a clone as he is a semiclone of the captain.)

Even as a semi-clone, he still shares a lot of animations with . And it still doesn't make sense because we never see do any fistfighting in any of the games he's been in.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai has as much luxury to do what he wants with the characters, so long as they make sense.

As far as Ganondorf goes, he's overwhelming power is here, he uses dark-elemental attacks, and his sword gets representation in one way or another. He's feels like Ganondorf, and that's good.

(Also, Ganondorf is not so much a clone as he is a semiclone of the captain.)

Yes, but I think seeing the incredibly awesome Ganondorf in Hyrule Warriors has made Smash Gandondorf look even more pale. There is so much potential for Ganondorf...Hyrule Warriors took full advantage of it, and Smash Bros. keeps playing it safe and simple.

 

[Quillion]

Yes, but I think seeing the incredibly awesome Ganondorf in Hyrule Warriors has made Smash Gandondorf look even more pale. There is so much potential for Ganondorf...Hyrule Warriors took full advantage of it, and Smash Bros. keeps playing it safe and simple.

I wouldn't call Falcondorf "safe" at this point...

 

[Folt]

Even as a semi-clone, he still shares a lot of animations with . And it still doesn't make sense because we never see do any fistfighting in any of the games he's been in.

I dunno, that seems clearly like a fist to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_voBgF4DOU#t=311

He also backhands Zelda in Wind Waker and does the same when he's deflecting his magic attack in OoT.

And Ganondorf has in fact used his fistfighting. Some of his strongest attacks in Hyrule Warriors use his hands instead of his swords.

 

[Quillion]

I dunno, that seems clearly like a fist to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_voBgF4DOU#t=311

He also backhands Zelda in Wind Waker and does the same when he's deflecting his magic attack in OoT.

And Ganondorf has in fact used his fistfighting. Some of his strongest attacks in Hyrule Warriors use his hands instead of his swords.

Which are things he only does once in a blue moon. He's still mostly a swordfighter and Sakurai is quite clearly trolling us by keeping him this way.

 

[Folt]

Which are things he only does once in a blue moon. He's still mostly a swordfighter and Sakurai is quite clearly trolling us by keeping him this way.

And yet, as is seen, he's not shying away from using them.

Also, you speak as if Sakurai has decided in his mind that he's gonna "have Ganondorf be a clone just because it pisses you off. Durr hurr hurr." Really, the real reason is probably because it does fit him rather well in addition to not wanting to alienate people who were used to him from Melee onwards.

 

[Quillion]

And yet, as is seen, he's not shying away from using them.

Also, you speak as if Sakurai has decided in his mind that he's gonna "have Ganondorf be a clone just because it pisses you off. Durr hurr hurr." Really, the real reason is probably because it does fit him rather well in addition to not wanting to alienate people who were used to him from Melee onwards.

Well, I wish I could agree with you.

But this confirms that yes, he knows about the demand for Ganondorf to be a sword user. And he's keeping him the way he is while he mocks the demanders.

 

[Folt]

Well, I wish I could agree with you.

But this confirms that yes, he knows about the demand for Ganondorf to be a sword user. And he's keeping him the way he is while he mocks the demanders.

And?

It's less like mocking and more like making a joke about it. And we all love him for it.

 

[Opana]

I feel this moveset encompasses his abilities well, I mean wouldn't it be odd for all dorf's attacks to have magical properties? I only remember his strength being utilized either behind a sword or his fists. I think dorf is less about his magical abilities despite being a warlock, and is more about his immense strength behind all abilities magical or not. Dead Man's Volley is welcome but not necessary, I mean using a potentially powerful projectile doesn't have the same feel as a potentially powerful kick or punch. A sword wouldn't demonstrate his strength as well imo, which is all he's about as I'm sure you all know.

It does not capture every aspect of his character, but it captures the most important one, captures it well I might add.

 

[Quillion]

Here's an interesting video on the subject. The guy isn't particularly attached to either side of the debate, which makes it less biased.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's an interesting video on the subject. The guy isn't particularly attached to either side of the debate, which makes it less biased.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again now: custom movesets should have been the answer to everyone's beef about character moves. In order to not alienate former Ganondorf players--yeah, it makes sense to not change up all his special moves. But do you want to play a more magic-wielding/sword-fighting Ganondorf with your friends? Well, use the custom movesets!

But instead, we once again just get variations of his made-up-for-smash moveset (the only thing that comes close to redemption is using his sword instead of Warlock Punch). I can only assume that once again, the team ran out of time to properly implement custom movesets in a way that fully utilized its potential.

 

[Quillion]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again now: custom movesets should have been the answer to everyone's beef about character moves. In order to not alienate former Ganondorf players--yeah, it makes sense to not change up all his special moves. But do you want to play a more magic-wielding/sword-fighting Ganondorf with your friends? Well, use the custom movesets!

But instead, we once again just get variations of his made-up-for-smash moveset (the only thing that comes close to redemption is using his sword instead of Warlock Punch). I can only assume that once again, the team ran out of time to properly implement custom movesets in a way that fully utilized its potential.

Then how would Miis be set apart from the other characters if every other character had different specials?

 

[Deleted member]

Then how would Miis be set apart from the other characters if every other character had different specials?

Because you can give them their own faces...just like how Miis are elsewhere.

In fact, I think Miis should have gone a step farther as well, being able to use a combination of specials from any of the other characters. Do you want a character that can use Power of Flight, Missile, Shield Breaker, and Spin Dash? Sure then, apply those specials to your Mii!

 

[Folt]

Because you can give them their own faces...just like how Miis are elsewhere.

In fact, I think Miis should have gone a step farther as well, being able to use a combination of specials from any of the other characters. Do you want a character that can use Power of Flight, Missile, Shield Breaker, and Spin Dash? Sure then, apply those specials to your Mii!

In hindsight, that wouldn't have worked out too well. A couple specials would make them seem like the spawn of Chtulhu and they would take even more time to make. They're better as they currently are, considering that they are technically characters original to Smash Bros.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

We should've gotten two different movesets for him. We have two Links and Zeldas already, might as well throw in another Ganondorf.

I was thinking of having Blood Falcon take Ganondorf's moveset and Ganondorf gets his own. That may be a bad idea though.

 

[Kenith]

I kind of want the next Smash game to feature a Ganondorf that fights like a fusion of Akuma and Albert Wesker.

 

[The Flying Brick]

I actually made an entry in a random idea dump for Smash Bros regarding Ganondorf. Bottom line is, his moves can be mostly the same, but his animations need to change to differentiate him more from Falcon. Disregard the new Final Smash, though. That is a part of my views on the roster.
http://hijacked-by-ganon.deviantart.com/art/Smash-Bros-5-Ideas-2-Ganondorf-504602058

 

[Nefnoj]

What if Ganondorf got his own moveset, and the Falcon Clone moves were given to Groose.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if Ganondorf got his own moveset, and the Falcon Clone moves were given to Groose.

Groose performing the Flame Choke? That's just weird.

 

[Nefnoj]

Groose performing the Flame Choke? That's just weird.

Now it's the "Groose Choke".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Now it's the "Groose Choke".

GROOSE PUNCH!!!
GROOSE KICK!!!

Wait! What about the Final Smash?

 

[Nefnoj]

GROOSE PUNCH!!!
GROOSE KICK!!!

Wait! What about the Final Smash?

GIGA
GROOSE.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

GIGA
GROOSE.

That won't give me any nightmares.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

An ingenius move would be imo to keep current ganon but include either oot or windwaker ganon as a seperate character with either a magic(oot) or dual swords(toon ganondorf) based moveset, pleasing everything. I mean, we have two links and two marios already so why not?

 

[Deleted member]

An ingenius move would be imo to keep current ganon but include either oot or windwaker ganon as a seperate character with either a magic(oot) or dual swords(toon ganondorf) based moveset, pleasing everything. I mean, we have two links and two marios already so why not?

Hyrule Warriors got Ganondorf right. He's tough and aggressive, uses magic, and wields two swords. Everything we ever wanted. *wipes away tear*

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

A lot of people raise such a stink about cloned movesets (Wolf caught the worst of this early on in Brawl) but tend to ignore the movesets that are unique and/or true to the character. Go figure.

 

[toadster101]

I agree. Even though it doesn't necessarily represent the character well, I've grown to love Ganondorf's Smash moveset. However, if they decided to give it to somebody else like Black Shadow or Samurai Goroh, I wouldn't complain.

 

[Quillion]

Now here's an interesting find (this video is linked to the right time):

Did I see Yuganon use Warlock Punch with his trident? I think we've seen one of Falcondorf's moves become canon!

And yet, the way it's done by the Zelda team is way more badass than Sakurai's stubborn insistence on keeping Falcondorf.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

That's way too nonspecific of an animation to be Warlock Punch.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Did I see Yuganon use Warlock Punch with his trident? I think we've seen one of Falcondorf's moves become canon!

And yet, the way it's done by the Zelda team is way more badass than Sakurai's stubborn insistence on keeping Falcondorf.

Can't be the Warlock Punch, since it is done with a trident. However, it could mean that one of Ganon's customs, the Warlock Blade, has a possibility of becoming (sort of) canon.

 

[Quillion]

That's way too nonspecific of an animation to be Warlock Punch.

Can't be the Warlock Punch, since it is done with a trident. However, it could mean that one of Ganon's customs, the Warlock Blade, has a possibility of becoming (sort of) canon.

He slowly gathers dark energy into his hand (not the trident, his HAND), then thrusts the trident out. That has to count for something.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He slowly gathers dark energy into his hand (not the trident, his HAND), then thrusts the trident out. That has to count for something.

That's why I threw out the possibility of the Warlock Blade (a custom) being canon. It's exactly the same thing, but with a sword.