Decloning Ganon might alienate more people than it pleases

[_Magus_]

It would be nice to see Ganondorf with a projectile...

A fellow CT fan!!!!! *freaks out*

A projectile would be nice, definitely would help the approach or camping game

 

[Lilfut]

Perfect solution is to redesign Ganon and give Black Shadow his old moveset. I main Ganon for his moves, not any sort of particular love for the character, and I imagine fans of the character would like something more representative of him.
As long as I can still do insane Flame Choke chains with somebody I'm happy.

 

[BigLord]

What Lilfut said. And besides, as a Captain Falcon main, just imagine the meta-hype in a match between the Cap and Black Shadow.

This is never going to happen now, though

 

[Igneous42]

Perhaps, but if they ever were to declone him they could still keep his moveset and just put it on someone who makes more sense. Black Shadow is a popular one being an F-Zero character whilst still retaining the dark/evil theme. I don't mind Falcondorf but I do think it isn't very true to the character. In fact Ganondorf is probably one the least accurately portrayed characters in Smash IMO. Every game where he fights Link Melee he uses swords, in games where he doesn't use melee and fights link (pretty much OoT alone) he floats and shoots magic at Link. So what do we get? A slow melee fighter who doesn't use swords or magic....Ok?

 

[Lord P Wallington]

I think ganondorf would be nice with a zelda-style side-special, but i wouldn't want to trade his flame choke for that.

 

[Folt]

In Hyrule Warriors, his strongest attack is a punch though. And it's not like he hasn't used his fists in the series he comes from.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

In Hyrule Warriors, his strongest attack is a punch though. And it's not like he hasn't used his fists in the series he comes from.

He does have a lot of other signature moves, however. I want to see Ganon with a trident!

 

[_Magus_]

Personally, I think Ganon is pretty well represented overall. He's uber strong and feels powerful. Plus, his moveset DOES use magic. Just no projectiles

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Personally, I think Ganon is pretty well represented overall. He's uber strong and feels powerful. Plus, his moveset DOES use magic. Just no projectiles

I feel like he could use a buff. He's slow enough that he should punish a lot more when he gets hits.

 

[_Magus_]

I feel like he could use a buff. He's slow enough that he should punish a lot more when he gets hits.

Side b > d tilt > dash attack, uair or fair > repeat

 

[Lord P Wallington]

Side b > d tilt > dash attack, uair or fair > repeat

You can tech the side b dtilt though

 

[_Magus_]

You can tech the side b dtilt though

Only on certain characters. It's up to the Ganon player to learn what followups work.
You can't tech side b > jab, which works on yo boi Dedede

Edit: And has even more followups, like a wizkick or another side b

 

[Wiley]

Decloning Ganon was my biggest wish with this edition, more than any newcomer joining (well maybe Geno would have made me more hype.) Many characters have had overhauls in this game that have completely changed their game. D3 is still a down throwing maniac, but the majority of the cast is, and most of D3s game has changed plenty. But it didn't happen for Dorf, and I'm definitely fine with that as well. I've played Ganon off and on since he was added in Melee and fell in love at first spike, so his similar kit is fine by me... but he is one of the greatest villains of all time, and has such a powerful story... it is a bit of a shame to see him as a clone to a racer who's spotlight is exponentially cooler in the game he's not even from.

I'm still really enjoying the feel he has in this game, way more so than brawl. But my vote would always be stop hard cloning if it's a stand alone character (wolf/falco/fox playing similarly made more sense to me.)

I understand why he's the way he is though, I would have loved if they gave him the Palutena treatment of having many more unique customs... He deserved that at least.

He's still the same badass though >:D And will continue to be my front runner in FG.

Edit: so I don't double post.

Only on certain characters. It's up to the Ganon player to learn what followups work.
You can't tech side b > jab, which works on yo boi Dedede

What Magus said,

Just have to learn the MUs but it often just becomes a mix up tech chase. Oh man though... when you get 6+ side b's with tech predictions... that's a feel >>>>>:D

And by the way your profile pic is bringing back serious nostalgia.
Imagine Magus/Frog/Ayla in this game o_o minds would be blown.

 

[_Magus_]

Decloning Ganon was my biggest wish with this edition, more than any newcomer joining (well maybe Geno would have made me more hype.) Many characters have had overhauls in this game that have completely changed their game. D3 is still a down throwing maniac, but the majority of the cast is, and most of D3s game has changed plenty. But it didn't happen for Dorf, and I'm definitely fine with that as well. I've played Ganon off and on since he was added in Melee and fell in love at first spike, so his similar kit is fine by me... but he is one of the greatest villains of all time, and has such a powerful story... it is a bit of a shame to see him as a clone to a racer who's spotlight is exponentially cooler in the game he's not even from.

I'm still really enjoying the feel he has in this game, way more so than brawl. But my vote would always be stop hard cloning if it's a stand alone character (wolf/falco/fox playing similarly made more sense to me.)

I understand why he's the way he is though, I would have loved if they gave him the Palutena treatment of having many more unique customs... He deserved that at least.

He's still the same badass though >:D And will continue to be my front runner in FG.

Edit: so I don't double post.


What Magus said,

Just have to learn the MUs but it often just becomes a mix up tech chase. Oh man though... when you get 6+ side b's with tech predictions... that's a feel >>>>>:D

And by the way your profile pic is bringing back serious nostalgia.
Imagine Magus/Frog/Ayla in this game o_o minds would be blown.

CT is the greatest game ever IMO

Magus would be a dream as he is my fav character in the whole game (DUH!). A boss (that you think is the final boss) that joins your team after you've seen how powerful he is? Nothing cooler than leveling him all the way up and using Dark Matter, his strongest attack. (Which could be his final smash lol)

 

[Wiley]

It really is one of the greatest, and one of the only games I own the full soundtrack to, and listen to it more often than one might expect from a VG almbum lol. Yeah, when I first saw Magus I thought he was really intriguing as well, and his music is incredibly atmospheric and fitting. When I found I could have him join the team, I nearly lost it. The game was a masterpiece.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread away from the Gerudo Nightmare, but it was hard not to have a little bit of a CT tangent with the presence of Magus lol.

 

[_Magus_]

Have you ever tried playing Ganon with the game sound off and just listening to Magus' theme? Perfect.

Yeah, sorry guys. XD

 

[Wiley]

Oh man, I haven't. But I am going to have to do this right after the post just because XD I'm sure it'll be fitting without taking away from anything 'Ganon'.
To FG I go, to punch some domes to the sounds of the wind and epic trumpets heralding the king of darkness.

Ty for the fun suggestion.

 

[_Magus_]

No prob buddy. But perhaps we should move our CT rave to PM XD

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

Wouldn't it be cool if using Warlock Punch also sent a magical energy ball flying from Ganon's fist? Sort of like Mega Man's fsmash. To compensate it would have to be far weaker than the actual punch, of course, but it could be a real neat addition.

 

[Sahfarry]

Change the Warlock punch to a projectile like Arcfire and change the F-Smash to a sword swipe. Everything else can stay imho.

"Dead Man's Volley" I've heard it been called. It's in most Zelda games, but idk where name is from. I imagine it being more like el thunder, but larger and slower.

 

[Folt]

Ganondorf has also only used that once.

(I personally prefer the Warlock Thrust in terms of giving his punch visible magic power.)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Personally, I'd like to see him having the ability to switch movesets with his taunts (much like that), so he could have a new moveset, making him more accurate to his Zelda seldom, while avoiding the alienation of diehard "Falcondorf" fans

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

Ganondorf has also only used that once.

With Ganondorf himself, yes, but it's been used by entities controlled by him.

It's part of the Phantom Ganon battle in Wind Waker, and later it's the first phase of the Twilight Princess battle, albeit with Puppet Zelda. And it reappeared in Link Between Worlds during the Yuganon fight.

 

[Folt]

Yuganon is all Yuga rather than Ganon.

Also, being controlled by Ganondorf =/= being Ganondorf.

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

Yuganon is all Yuga rather than Ganon.

That was never clarified either way.

 

[Folt]

That was never clarified either way.

Ravio's diary makes it pretty blatantly obvious that it's Yuga and not Ganon.

 

[Shog]

So I read a bit of this thread and I didn't notice much talk about his new Custom Moves, like his Sword...I mean isn't that a step in the right direction? (And he has an awesome Down B, too)

What I always liked about the Dorf is that he felt like such a Power Beast in each Smash game. That's why I love to use him in friendly modes to blast enemies away with his Sparta Kick, Neutral B or Up Tilt. Taking that away would actually make me sad. And that is btw why Custom Moves are amazing(I agree with the guy saying that Ganondorf could have had the Palutena treatment)

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

Ravio's diary makes it pretty blatantly obvious that it's Yuga and not Ganon.

I wouldn't know, I never bothered to do Hero Mode.

 

[Quillion]

So I read a bit of this thread and I didn't notice much talk about his new Custom Moves, like his Sword...I mean isn't that a step in the right direction? (And he has an awesome Down B, too)

What I always liked about the Dorf is that he felt like such a Power Beast in each Smash game. That's why I love to use him in friendly modes to blast enemies away with his Sparta Kick, Neutral B or Up Tilt. Taking that away would actually make me sad. And that is btw why Custom Moves are amazing(I agree with the guy saying that Ganondorf could have had the Palutena treatment)

It's a step, but it's a miniscule one that needs to go further.

We know that DLC's a thing now, so maybe that could be a way to get a decloned . Though I could see a reskined to Black Shadow with revamped Ganondorf as a Free DLC, as presenting one without the other will cause an uproar either way.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

After the humiliation that Ganondorf received in Brawl, you'd think that he'd be improved. Nope, he's still pretty lame, even if he seems buffed.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's a step, but it's a miniscule one that needs to go further.

We know that DLC's a thing now, so maybe that could be a way to get a decloned . Though I could see a reskined to Black Shadow with revamped Ganondorf as a Free DLC, as presenting one without the other will cause an uproar either way.

If anything, they should add a "new" Ganondorf moveset that switches between magic, sword and "Falcondorf" through taunts (I know I've already said it, but it's an awesome idea!)

 

[Lord P Wallington]

After the humiliation that Ganondorf received in Brawl, you'd think that he'd be improved. Nope, he's still pretty lame, even if he seems buffed.

I like the dorf!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I like the dorf!

Good for you! But I think the King of Evil deserves more

 

[Quillion]

If anything, they should add a "new" Ganondorf moveset that switches between magic, sword and "Falcondorf" through taunts (I know I've already said it, but it's an awesome idea!)

No chance for that in SSB4 currently, since character transformation was removed entirely.

 

[Captain Norris]

I actually do not really mind how his moveset is this gae. He seems fairly different, and he does use his sword in a custom special. I was disapointed in Brawl, but he seems pretty nice moveset wise. I dunno if I would want a 100% revamp. Maybe one in the way Pit was changed. Just give dorf different custom specials. That is really the only thing he is really alike with Falcon.

 

[Quillion]

I actually do not really mind how his moveset is this gae. He seems fairly different, and he does use his sword in a custom special. I was disapointed in Brawl, but he seems pretty nice moveset wise. I dunno if I would want a 100% revamp. Maybe one in the way Pit was changed. Just give dorf different custom specials. That is really the only thing he is really alike with Falcon.

His normals still have very similar animations and/or have nearly the same properties.

I for one really do want a 100% revamp, though as I said before, that would really alienate a lot of Falcondorf players.

 

[Captain Norris]

His normals still have very similar animations and/or have nearly the same properties.

I for one really do want a 100% revamp, though as I said before, that would really alienate a lot of Falcondorf players.

Sure they have similar animations, but the again, many different characters have similar animations.
A sof revamp would be welcome imo. but I like his air game and normal attacks. His air game is completely different from Flacon and works great, which is why I feel there is no need to change it. But hey, that is my opinion and I wouldn't mind a 100% revamp (unless they made him worse)

 

[InfiniteTripping]

OP doesn't make much sense because the character has been steadily changed since his inception anyway. I doubt changing him completely would bother people, and you could always give Ganondorf's old cloned moveset to a more fitting character to compensate the old Ganon mains (perhaps as is often suggested, Black Shadow although I would prefer Mach Rider). But Sakurai doesn't even consider him a clone anymore so I think we're stuck with the Ganon we have forever.

 

[Lilfut]

I could see them changing his normal animations to use a sword while keeping the functions roughly the same (maybe with increased range) and/or making Warlock Blade his default nspec, but I really want the special set to stay essentially the same, especially Flame Choke.

 

[Folt]

I wouldn't know, I never bothered to do Hero Mode.

I'd say ignorance is no excuse, but oh well. You now know which is the most important thing.

OP doesn't make much sense because the character has been steadily changed since his inception anyway. I doubt changing him completely would bother people, and you could always give Ganondorf's old cloned moveset to a more fitting character to compensate the old Ganon mains (perhaps as is often suggested, Black Shadow although I would prefer Mach Rider). But Sakurai doesn't even consider him a clone anymore so I think we're stuck with the Ganon we have forever.

He has been changed yes, but he's been changed in such a way that instead of feeling like a clone of Cpt. Falcon, he basically took those similiarities and made them his own. By For., his neutral attack, tilts, up smash, forward aerial, up-throw, and side special are unique, down smash, down aerial, and Warlock Punch were visually altered, and Dark Dive was also altered to have an attack independent of the grab motions, while Wizard's Foot got a meteor smash effect at the start of the aerial version. His custom specials are also all different from the Captain (though one makes his Side Special resemble his old Side Special move and Cpt. Falcon's by proxy... though having a custom alter the properties of a special to become more like the parent character is a recurring thing with all characters that are semiclones with someone.)