Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Wam]

Wam don’t force a NoKill that’s incredibly anti town

Laser, bessie, me font we have 4 for eido without you so I'm not forcing anything.

 

[fontisian]

I am not voting Laser.

 

[fontisian]

Can we please, please stop ****ing around and just kill Eido?

 

[Eido]

We absolutely need Maven in here. Maven89

I'm voting Fonti over a NoYeet, for the record. I'll be here til deadline.

 

[Swiss]

The Eido sus comes from mistaking play that looks scummy as play that is by scum.

look for scum intent and you see none

font is a better kill as very hard to read but probs town

laser is the best choice

 

[fontisian]

The Eido sus comes from mistaking play that looks scummy as play that is by scum.

look for scum intent and you see none

font is a better kill as very hard to read but probs town

laser is the best choice

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Eido]

Can we please, please stop ****ing around and just kill Eido?

You are completely tunnelled.

 

[fontisian]

No, Swiss, it's not.

Eido:
1. Softed Pr, but was not shot.
2. Two of the three people who wanted him dead were shot instead.
3. He tried to yeet you over Somi. He has explained Today both that he thought he could yeet you there (with me and Sabrar voting you already, and Maven expressing interest) and that his vote was serious. These are contradictory statements.
4. Was treated like a partner by Somi. Somi just placed him as a soft townread, while pushing Bessie for being nitpicky with her Eido scumread,
5. Somi shrooped about him.
6. When he tried to get you killed instead of Somi, he phrased it as "trusting in fonti." That's some bull****, why would he do that there but never trust in me on any other read or at all in his town game.
7. Follow up on six. He tried to not be responsibility for yeeting Swiss over Somi, he wanted me to have that responsibility.
8. He's too sure of his reads. He just states them and moves on, he doesn't reconsider.
9. He's following Mantichora's guide to open wolfing to a t. Asking extra questions, constantly posting, faking confidence, memeing. It's all in the guide.

#18: A Practical Guide to Open Wolfing (by Mantichora)

www.mafiauniverse.com

10. He also tried to push people to yeet Maven over Somi.
11. His Somi vote felt like a bus, because Maven claimed and no one bit on my Swiss case. He felt like he had no other options.
12. He put Somi, Bessie and Wam in his scumreads, but he didn't actually try to bury Somi like he did with the other two, This was when Somi was already under pressure.

 

[fontisian]

You are completely tunnelled.

Yes, I am, obviously. But tunneling doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[Eido]

You are going to be wrong.

Just to recap the end of Day 1: If it wasn't for you, I probably wouldn't have voted Swiss and stayed on Somi.

Actually it was you, Sabrar & Maven that made me vote Swiss, and I voted back on Somi because it was too late.

All 3 of you were my Town reads. There was an element of playfulness to the whole thing because everyone was live, and posting.

Why does that vote switch have to be the buddy one? And why does the buddy vote need to look like this in the face of a Tracker turned Cop?

 

[fontisian]

13. He totally gets how scum would be scared of a tracker or jailkeeper, but didn't get the 8/10 thing from Gorf at the beginning of the game. He grasps concepts easily when they're from a wolf pov, but not when they're from a town pov.
14. This also shows up in how he talks about his reads. He stated an exact idea of how scum should have played out eod with Somi going down, saying he thinks they should have played it cool, maybe bussed and not tried to fight it. Except he's townreading all of the people who voted Somi, so there's a disconnect between what he says he thinks scum would do and the thought process he's putting into the game.
15. The B2 slip. It'd be ****ing weird for town!Eido to know the letter and numbers for each setup off the top of his head when he's not a pr. Clearly he did not post while looking at the setup, because he corrected himself immediately afterwards. It's much more likely he already knew we were in one of the B worlds, so when Maven claimed he was immediately like "Ooh, B2! Oh wait, B1 is also possible."

 

[fontisian]

You are going to be wrong.

Just to recap the end of Day 1: If it wasn't for you, I probably wouldn't have voted Swiss and stayed on Somi.

Actually it was you, Sabrar & Maven that made me vote Swiss, and I voted back on Somi because it was too late.

All 3 of you were my Town reads. There was an element of playfulness to the whole thing because everyone was live, and posting.

Why does that vote switch have to be the buddy one? And why does the buddy vote need to look like this in the face of a Tracker turned Cop?

Made you how, Eido?

Sabrar didn't give a reason, he said it was up to me. Maven just said he was considering it. I wasn't making arguments or pushing you, I was just saying meaningless ****.

I don't care about the actual logic for the buddy thing, I just think the logic you gave at two different points today 1. contradicted and 2. was too clearly thought out.

 

[fontisian]

It's not L-1 yet. Wait until Fonti's reread.

Reading through some bits myself

What were you thinking would happen here?

 

[Eido]

Well I didn't take it as meaningless ****. And Sabrar voted too.

You need to care for the actual logic on the buddy thing, because the Tracker tuning in to a Cop is a huge game state changer that very likely shapes the buddy's behaviour there.

The buddy's vote is not going to be a bad, scummy vote.

 

[Eido]

That you would change your mind? I asked you consider a bunch of things when you said you were rereading.

 

[fontisian]

No but really, Fonti:

Towards the moment we actually yeeted, I was thinking about Somi being a misyeet. You, Swiss & Sabrar all said Somi gave you possible Town pings, and you even go as far as wanting to be sued. (lol).

The other thing I'm thinking about right up to the yeet was that Swiss was one of my weaker Town reads. It's 6am and I see Sabrar vote with you, along with Maven thinking about it, who are all likely to be Town. Suddenly I’m anxious and thinking about you being correct on your read because you have 100s games experience. Day 1 looks like a crapshoot, so why not?

I make the switch, it’s 1 minute to deadline, I switch back. It's obviously not happening, and it's obviously a little bit playful. I was not trying to save Somi as his buddy. This is the behaviour you need to go back and re-evaluate. The buddy is more likely to be calmer, more controlled, and less “SAVE SOMI”, because the Somi situation was obviously futile.

Scum might bus, yes. But a successful bus empowers the Town Tracker or Jailkeeper to become some sort of pseudo-cop. They’re not really incentivised to make it a successful bus. So I expect reads around Somi to be more ‘null’ right now, or at least on the softer-side of a bus.

Eido says scum wouldn't behave like he did, they'd be calm, but he also acknowledges that with an unknown town tracker or jailkeeper, a lone scum is in a ton of danger and is very motivated to keep their partner alive (by doing things like jumping on a possible counter wagon with two minutes left in the Day).

If you look at Eido's posts from Today there's a lot of stuff like this, where he's totally honest about what would motive wolves or what he's trying to do, and those things are coming from a wolf perspective.

 

[Eido]

No they're not >_> It's information available to us all.

 

[fontisian]

Well I didn't take it as meaningless ****. And Sabrar voted too.

You need to care for the actual logic on the buddy thing, because the Tracker tuning in to a Cop is a huge game state changer that very likely shapes the buddy's behaviour there.

The buddy's vote is not going to be a bad, scummy vote.

You argument is essentially that if you were scum you wouldn't have panicked or jumped or whatever, and that you would have played smarter. This is not persuasive to me, because it's easy to look back at your actions and see how you could have done things better.

 

[fontisian]

No they're not >_> It's information available to us all.

The setup is available to it all. That doesn't mean vts are likely to memorize it or be able to narrow down worlds pre flips or claims.

 

[Eido]

Yes and this is the blocker. I cannot persuade you passed this point.

Can you tell me what types of conversations you think Somi & ??? are having when Somi is about to die? What do you think they're talking about behind-the-scenes?

 

[Eido]

The setup is available to it all. That doesn't mean vts are likely to memorize it or be able to narrow down worlds pre flips or claims.

It doesn't need to mean it though. The VTs can memorize the setup if they want, and they can refer back to the OP whenever they want, too. The information is available to us all.

 

[fontisian]

No need, I'm comfortable hammering after that last post from Somi.

@somitomi last chance to claim a role.

Anyone else want to do anything? Last chance.

Vote: Swiss

up to you

That's right, the Swiss wagon is real. You too could be part of the Swiss yeet!

Offer only valid for the next 6 minutes. Wolf flip not guaranteed.

Towncred, get your towncred here!

from the little i read of the last few pages i'm not opposed to a swiss flip but this game doesn't have the activity to swap

We absolute do. We need three. We have Maven, Bessie and Laser here.

If Swiss flips town, it'll be easier to yeet me Tomorrow.

We also have Eido and Wam. Wow, five potential possible votes, when we only need three! What a deal!

yeah but i'm really wary cause if we slip up at all we get no lynch, and a bad lynch is better than no lynch day 1

If we had 5 or 6 i'd be down

Vote: Swiss

Just do it. Believe in the fonti

Here are the posts talking about yeeting Swiss. Eido , please explain how these were persuasive to you.

 

[fontisian]

Yes and this is the blocker. I cannot persuade you passed this point.

Can you tell me what types of conversations you think Somi & ??? are having when Somi is about to die? What do you think they're talking about behind-the-scenes?

Does it matter?

Most likely, Somi assumes he's probably dead, unless I really push for Swiss. You agree, and reluctantly bus. You two probably share pr reads, because you need to hit the tracker or jailkeeper if Somi is going down. Then you see that there is some support for Swiss after all. Sabrar just voted him, I'm still talking about it. Maven said he's interested if you get 5 votes. If you vote, you're pushing Swiss up to 4 votes right there, Maven might jump on board and Somi is saved.

 

[fontisian]

It doesn't need to mean it though. The VTs can memorize the setup if they want, and they can refer back to the OP whenever they want, too. The information is available to us all.

Ok. Talk to me about why you had the part of the setup memorized. Why was it interesting to you?

 

[fontisian]

To be clear, the issue is that while the availability of the information is equal between all of us, the motivation to pay close attention to it at the beginning of the game varied significantly based on alignment and pr status.

 

[Eido]

Ok. Talk to me about why you had the part of the setup memorized. Why was it interesting to you?

Maven claimed and I referred to the OP. I saw one variation of the setup and posted. I checked back and noticed the other, and then posted that.

 

[Eido]

To be clear, the issue is that while the availability of the information is equal between all of us, the motivation to pay close attention to it at the beginning of the game varied significantly based on alignment and pr status.

Right, in a vacuum.

At the point we're talking about, Maven had claimed. This is a likely moment the OP starts getting traffic from other players.

 

[fontisian]

That you would change your mind? I asked you consider a bunch of things when you said you were rereading.

For the record, I believe you on this. But again, that isn't a point in your favor. Me changing my mind is the best outcome scum!you can hope for, and you've seen me swap reads enough to know it was a possibility. I think the townier reaction would have been some pushback from you, as you wondered whether I'm scum trying to misyeet you. Instead, you've been treating me like town, and I think it's very strange for someone with as little experience as you to be so certain of that.

 

[Eido]

Does it matter?

Most likely, Somi assumes he's probably dead, unless I really push for Swiss. You agree, and reluctantly bus. You two probably share pr reads, because you need to hit the tracker or jailkeeper if Somi is going down. Then you see that there is some support for Swiss after all. Sabrar just voted him, I'm still talking about it. Maven said he's interested if you get 5 votes. If you vote, you're pushing Swiss up to 4 votes right there, Maven might jump on board and Somi is saved.

Ok. What conversations are they having about the Tracker or Jailkeeper?

 

[fontisian]

Spoiler

I am reluctant to yeet Maven while he's not around to claim. Will do it to avoid a no-yeet if necessary.

I would like @Sabrar and Swiss to talk about their Somi reads, maybe a grab a quote or two while doing it. I would like Swiss to note the posts he's talking about in general.

I believe Laser believes his case on me and have no interest in yeeting him.

Vote: Somitomi

@somitomi Now would be an excellent time to show up.

Vote: Somitomi

@LaserGuy, I'm not sure why you think these reads are noncensusy? Keep in mind I don't think Somi was fully caught up when he posted them.

I'm assuming the Maven read is a joke. Sabrar and Bessie are consensusy townreads. The rest of the reads are built up on not liking the Eido push,. You and I defended Eido, so we're at the top. Wam, Gorf and Swiss attacked Eido, so they're at the bottom. It's very one-dimensional. Is that normal for town!Somi?

I will not yeet: Gorf, Laser, Bessie
I would not like to yeet: Eido, Wam
I would consider yeeting: Maven, Swiss, Sabrar
I would like to yeet: Somi

If Somi was more in tune with the thread in the early game than the late, then he saw Laser scumreading Gorf. Mmm, one sec.

@LaserGuy, yes I know I'm playing very differently from Apex, I looked over it. That's why I said I was ok with you yesterday.

Or it's just a copy of Eido's early content:


I mean, it could come from town, sure.. It's just weird that it's so linear and built around this one player, no independent reads in there.

There's also the out of order stuff. Somi said this:


Note that Eido does not call him active here, in post 118. No one calls him active until here:

That's post 151. So Somi is either reading ahead a bit, not reacting to things in the moment, or chatting in scumchat I guess. I don't know if reading a bit ahead is normal for him. It feels strange.

I'm skimming completely vanilla for a somi scumgame. Found this, don't have the context on the player's positioning to know how different or similar it is the readlist Somi posted here. Unfortunately it doesn't look like any of you were in that game, but if you followed along with it or something let me know, please.

It felt like Somi was contributing to the push on Eido with an offhand comment supporting the whole "don't people at l-2" argument from Gorf. Eido felt that way, Gorf felt that way (he had to go back and reread to realize Somi wasn't pushing strongly) and I felt that way.

Looking at a towngame, now, can probably dismiss some of the point about not really townreading Eido but scumreading the people pushing for him.

Points in Somi's favor:
Here he's scumreading Heury alone for scumreading Tattertot for bad reason while he's also scumreading tattertot. He's also scumreading Swiss for his push on Sabrar while Sabrar is only his second weakest townread.

The bessie read and placement is also pretty similar to this game.

Points against Somi:
He spends a lot more time thinking about and fleshing out his scum and weak townreads here, mostly because he's looking for scum, not looking for town, and thus doesn't feel like he as concrete reasons to back up his townreads besides "not scummy."


In this game, Somi's townreads feel more fleshed out than his scumreads, so he's townhunting more than or as much as he's scumhunting. This could be scum indicative because it's easier to make townreads as scum (as you already know who the town are) than it is to fake scumreads. That said, he didn't give a lot of reasons for townreading people in his scum game. That's potentially because he was already under a lot of pressure there.

This was fairly inconclusive. Anyway.

Swiss Wam Vote elsewhere before scum!Eido cuts his loses and hammers me, thanks.

 

[fontisian]

Ok. What conversations are they having about the Tracker or Jailkeeper?

What?

What is the point of this question.

 

[Swiss]

Wam, Maven, Bessie etc

Explain to me how this painful interaction between Font & Eido is SvT.

When you can't stop beign absolute melts and join me on an actual yeet that helps us.

Vote: Laser

Vote is here, it's staying, if we NoLynch - that's on you guys not me.

 

[Swiss]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Vote: Laser

 

[Swiss]

Font you're not seeing the woods for the trees

 

[Eido]

To guess or predict their movements? Like, I imagine they're having very demoralising conversations behind-the-scenes, going 'oh ****, what are we gonna do?'

Then I think they're talking about just letting Somi die and spending resources on trying to find the Tracker or Jailkeeper, all whilst probably trying to look as Townie as possible.

 

[fontisian]

To guess or predict their movements? Like, I imagine they're having very demoralising conversations behind-the-scenes, going 'oh ****, what are we gonna do?'

Then I think they're talking about just letting Somi die and spending resources on trying to find the Tracker or Jailkeeper, all whilst probably trying to look as Townie as possible.

In my experience, scumteams in that position tend to be demoralized and not talking that much,

 

[fontisian]

I don't see how that can be used by you to scumhunt here. The only one hoping Somi would live but resigned to his death was you, Eido.

 

[Eido]

Fonti, the tracker is turning in to a COP. The tracker is turning in to a COPPPPP

It doesn't get as threatening as that to the scum win condition, surely? There is no way my vote on Swiss is a buddy vote. It even attracted 3 likes for god's sake, and even Swiss is like 'wtf are you doing'.

It's a terrible buddy vote.

 

[fontisian]

Font you're not seeing the woods for the trees

I'll show you not seeing the forest for the trees!

 

[Eido]

I'm moving on now. I've never shouted at someone on the interwebs before and I could also be completely wrong on everything myself.

I still think it's Laser