Data Decisive Games Introduction Thread (make sure to check the new forum rules as well!)

[BarDulL]

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Am I doin' it right, Nabe?

You know you are.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Lol, just read the dealie with BW. He clearly just read the name of his role, Jailer (probably should have been "Town Jailer"), but didn't read his win con. His win con had the word "town" in it twice, however. Take from that what you will.

I'm sure it was a lesson well learned, even if it had to be learned (for some reason) the hard way. Remember to read your Role PMs, kids! The whole darn thing!

BSP is at least as legit as BadWolf.

/2¢

 

[#HBC | Kary]

BSP is legit

and also a newbie I don't find irritating


but i'm only saying this because # games completed =/= competence/skill level, and I've seen 3/4 of BSP's games here.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Marshy? Yeah you can go straight to hell.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You're all idiots. Literally all of you.

Rockin, I can vouch for BSP's abilities. You shouldn't deny him.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

BSP is fine. Badwolf needs to promise to be active.

I'm serious. Don't join if you cannot commit. If I am king I will end the day on you right then and there if you're not active enough.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You're all idiots. Literally all of you.

I'm serious. Don't join if you cannot commit. If I am king I will end the day on you right then and there if you're not active enough.

how to win at mafia 101. sod reading people, yo

@marshy who you actually playing with, you rolling NH?

 

[Circus]

Too swag.

You're all idiots. Literally all of you.

Gheb, you flatterer.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

im also fine with bsp. badwolf shouldnt be allowed under any circumstances however. rockin i trust you to make the correct call and can point at me to absolve responsibility. i consider it a public service

@ kary neither

 

[BSP]

Oh yeah, that was...Gheb's small. Circus was the indy, Badwolf was the Town Jailer PR. Badwolf misunderstood his role PM and said outloud that he was the independent, but he really just had no idea what an independent was and thought he was indy for...some reason, I don't remember. I'm sure he at least NOW understands that, unless the role PM tells you specifically that you are "independently" aligned, you are not an independent. I haven't played with him in any recent games however, so I'm not sure how much he has improved since.

I felt BSP was ok in Puzzle Bobble, but I agree with Rockin that Kingmaker set ups can become silly when someone who isn't as experienced with being in a position of power (a.k.a. being the King) could potentially lead to problems for everyone else. Or, say BSP ends up being easily executed because of his inexperience, that would suck for any alignment he's a part of.

Rake is totally fine IMHO, and considering he's hydraing with RR, he'll at least have RR to go through before anything else. Rake's not GOD TIER, but he's not bad.

@paragraph involving me

Kingmaker isn't rocket science or anything; I'd know what to do with it

Being executed solely because of inexperience...that could happen in any game (it'd be a lynch of course) the veterans are just in position to claim that anything suspicious I do is a newb scum tell, and there's not that much I can do about that (except ask for them to pull up something concrete).

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

im also fine with bsp. badwolf shouldnt be allowed under any circumstances however. rockin i trust you to make the correct call and can point at me to absolve responsibility. i consider it a public service

@ kary neither

Embroiled in a heavy love triangle, yet I cannot bear to turn aside. Be still, my gentle heart.


The only problem with BSP is my inability to distinguish him from BSL.

 

[BSL]

I won't be in that game, don't worry.

 

[BarDulL]

I've seen BSP's play in PB and I'm not trying to say he's bad, but man, I'd be so salty if he becomes king and executes someone on the dumbest of premises (i.e. baseless paranoia instead of legitimate reasoning, for example). It's like giving a newb the governor slot which inadvertently allows him to potentially wreck the game for everyone. If Badwolf literally hasn't improved since Gheb's game, then yeah, I can see that argument being used against him as well and I have no qualms with it really.

If you guys really think that BSP won't do that, then ok, but I suspect that he probably will given from what I've seen in his previous play.

 

[BarDulL]

@paragraph involving me

Kingmaker isn't rocket science or anything; I'd know what to do with it

Being executed solely because of inexperience...that could happen in any game (it'd be a lynch of course) the veterans are just in position to claim that anything suspicious I do is a newb scum tell, and there's not that much I can do about that (except ask for them to pull up something concrete).

At least a lynch is a majority, a king just outright ****s people up and doesn't have to listen to the majority. If the king thinks you're scum even though you're really just being inexperienced Town, you'll get **** on in seconds.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Oh yeah, that was...Gheb's small. Circus was the indy, Badwolf was the Town Jailer PR. Badwolf misunderstood his role PM and said outloud that he was the independent, but he really just had no idea what an independent was and thought he was indy for...some reason, I don't remember. I'm sure he at least NOW understands that, unless the role PM tells you specifically that you are "independently" aligned, you are not an independent. I haven't played with him in any recent games however, so I'm not sure how much he has improved since.

Now youre just putting words in my mouth... I knew what an indy was I was just confused about whether or not I was one.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

People need to quit being ********, holy ship. When has dGames become such a pathetic gathering of clowns?

 

[BarDulL]

Now youre just putting words in my mouth... I knew what an indy was I was just confused about whether or not I was one.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, but based on your actions, it was pretty evident that you didn't know what an indy was. Even if you did know what an independent was, you had no good reason to out that kind of information at that point in the game. Did you even think to yourself what the repercussions could have been for claiming scum? Explain to me in your own words why you would claim Indy in that situation if you thought you were Indy.

 

[BarDulL]

People need to quit being ********, holy ship. When has dGames become such a pathetic gathering of clowns?

As far as I know, you haven't played a single game with him. If you have, then my bad, but your opinion doesn't hold much weight if you haven't already analyzed the goods firsthand.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's not about whether you are right about what you say about him. It's about you all acting like complete tools. Shouldn't actually be surprised about that though *smh*

 

[BarDulL]

 

[#HBC | Kary]

As far as I know, you haven't played a single game with him. If you have, then my bad, but your opinion doesn't hold much weight if you haven't already analyzed the goods firsthand.

Newbie 21?

It's not about whether you are right about what you say about him. It's about you all acting like complete tools. Shouldn't actually be surprised about that though *smh*

again with the generalizations. But whatever

it's not the social thread, after all.

 

[BarDulL]

Newbie 21?

Hmmm, why do I feel like new players always have an easier time playing scum? It was the same thing with Badwolf. I guess it's because they're already aware of everyone's alignment, so they really aren't shooting in the dark. BSP definitely needs to work on his Town game though.

@Rockin, this is what Soup had to say w.r.t. BSP's play in Newbie 21:

7. BSP

BSP, You did really well for your first time as Mafia. I was impressed D1 and I hated to see you go, your play just seemed so sincere and you even got the IC's to believe it, Ramen just carried from your play and barely had to do anything. Props. If you stuck around and kept it up from D1 you would have gotten MvP.

Take what you will from it.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I feel as if would be easier to just out.... Not going to tho

 

[BarDulL]

So are you going to answer my 11818: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14949194&postcount=11818 , or should we just leave it at "you didn't know what an indy was"? It's not like taking the latter option makes you look bad, we all make mistakes, but we really should own up to them and face ourselves.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why are you even talking about this still? Some of you [acknowedging Kary's point] need to smarten up and think about what you're talking. If Rockin doesn't want him in because of experience requirements I'm sure Badwolf will understand, especially since it has always been Rockin's policy to request a little bit of experience from his players. More doesn't need to be said about this subject, especially when most of it doesn't make you look particularly bright.

 

[BarDulL]

Gheb, if you were actually paying attention to the thread, you'd know that there is a discrepancy w.r.t. how much skill certain players have. If Rockin could simply wave a magic wand to quickly and objectively determine if those players fit his requirements, then you're right, no one should be talking. That obviously isn't the case here.

For the record, Badwolf has more games than BSP (at least in Dgames I'm pretty sure), so TECHNICALLY Badwolf has more experience. However, that isn't an implication that Badwolf is more skilled than BSP. If you think BSP should be in the game, but Badwolf should not be, then you're inadvertently admitting that skill is a factor and that there is a degree of subjectivity involved in the process of analyzing these players, thus you're being an idiot by claiming we're being tools for debating subjectivity. Hell, if it isn't obvious, skill is clearly a factor because everyone seems to be acknowledging it as such.

This has more or less become a public debacle, so using this thread as a medium to give Rockin this kind of information isn't "stupid" because that's just how it happened. Personally, I'm just being nice and giving Rockin information that can help him in his decision making process. OF COURSE it's ultimately up to Rockin to make the decision for his own game, but if I can help him make a more informed decision, why the hell shouldn't I? (Think this speaks for everyone who has stated an opinion on it thus far.)

 

[Vinylic.]

Might go in if allowed to. I can see toonami not starting anytime soon, so I'll go ahead with this if I can.

 

[BSP]

I've seen BSP's play in PB and I'm not trying to say he's bad, but man, I'd be so salty if he becomes king and executes someone on the dumbest of premises (i.e. baseless paranoia instead of legitimate reasoning, for example). It's like giving a newb the governor slot which inadvertently allows him to potentially wreck the game for everyone.

I'm guessing you're getting your "baseless paranoia thing" from PB, in which case, I disagree. If pursuing a person because they gave a town read to someone who's outed 1 unique stance isn't legitimate reasoning, IDK how scum can ever be found.

If you guys really think that BSP won't do that, then ok, but I suspect that he probably will given from what I've seen in his previous play.

That wasn't baseless paranoia. How can it be baseless if I can bring up evidence to support it?

Explain this to me, because I'm still not seeing it.

This is what I saw:

Bardull gives Riddle town read
I look back and notice Riddle has only made 1 unique read up to that point
I begin to question Bardull about it and continue when his answers don't satisfy me

How is this baseless?

If you're thinking my analysis of Riddle's play was baseless, that'd be incorrect too. Look at my Scum play from Newbie 21 (I think, not sure about the #, but it's the megaman one). He did exactly what I did: he gave opinions and reasoning, but he never pushed anyone, and at the end of the day, was comfortable with whatever lynch target we had. Not pushing anyone is a problem. I'll admit, I could've voiced that suspicion more, but trust me, my suspicion was not baseless.

I might just go pull up posts actually.

BSP definitely needs to work on his Town game though.

Not saying my town game's perfect, but I already know what I did wrong in PB and HxH. I've played too passively on D1 (or gave implications to being passive) and because of this, no one trusts me by later days and/or they're fine with my lynch. I can fix this easily though.

Right now, my main goal is gathering people who will be active. Player skills is not that big of a factor to me like previous games, though I still keep it in mind. I'm willing to give Badwolf, Rake, and a few others a chance cause they've shown to have completed some recent games. ATM, I do not know how good their skill levels are....but I'm sure it's enough to grasp the concept behind Mafia.

If this is what you're mostly worried about, I change my "understandable" to "?" Activity has never been a problem for me, and I've got the concept of the game down.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I trusted you in PB BSP, if that's any consolation.

 

[BarDulL]

I'm not going to go out of my way to argue with you about this entirely and completely, but here are a few things that I remember you doing in PB:

1. Your knee jerk reaction to me saying "BSP should die before Riddle" was to call me scum for it. This is called an OMGUS. I could have been Town and said the exact same thing.

2. Just because Riddle "out'd one unique read" doesn't mean I shouldn't have a town read on him. Even then, he out'd more reads than this, you just sloppily looked over his play and gave a terrible analysis of it without reading into it, either because you wanted to make yourself appear better than him, or you're just outright bad at reading into other slots as TownBSP.

3. You pushed against my slot because of the Vigilante claim based on nothing outside of paranoia. Literally, you had no good reason to want me to out it.

4. You thought JD was scum, RR could be scum, I was scum, and that Riddle was scum (or did you think he was town? In which case, why would you doubt my read on him if you did?), all at the same time. Lol. Based on literally nothing. Really, you just wanted to survive and didn't know how to read other players, thus you didn't trust anybody. I was pro-town all game, so your pushing against my slot with terrible reasoning was just awful, and you only really did it because you knew you were going to be lynched if I lived into the next day (you admitted to this.)

I mean, this is why JD was like "hmmm maybe BSP really is scum, why is RR pushing Riddle so much" which resulted in you getting lynched. I dunno man, I could write a book on why I don't feel you're not experienced enough. A lot of people still seem to think that you could do well, so I'm not going to make any further points about you and leave it up to Rockin, but that's my stance on it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm not going to go out of my way to argue with you about this entirely and completely, but here are a few things that I remember you doing in PB:

1. Your knee jerk reaction to me saying "BSP should die before Riddle" was to call me scum for it. This is called an OMGUS. I could have been Town and said the exact same thing.

2. Just because Riddle "out'd one unique read" doesn't mean I shouldn't have a town read on him. Even then, he out'd more reads than this, you just sloppily looked over his play and gave a terrible analysis of it without reading into it, either because you wanted to make yourself appear better than him, or you're just outright bad at reading into other slots as TownBSP.

3. You pushed against my slot because of the Vigilante claim based on nothing outside of paranoia. Literally, you had no good reason to want me to out it.

4. You thought JD was scum, RR could be scum, I was scum, and that Riddle was scum (or did you think he was town? In which case, why would you doubt my read on him if you did?), all at the same time. Lol. Based on literally nothing. Really, you just wanted to survive and didn't know how to read other players, thus you didn't trust anybody. I was pro-town all game, so your pushing against my slot with terrible reasoning was just awful, and you only really did it because you knew you were going to be lynched if I lived into the next day (you admitted to this.)

I mean, this is why JD was like "hmmm maybe BSP really is scum, why is RR pushing Riddle so much" which resulted in you getting lynched. I dunno man, I could write a book on why I don't feel you're not experienced enough. A lot of people still seem to think that you could do well, so I'm not going to make any further points about you and leave it up to Rockin, but that's my stance on it.

You realize this is an ******* thing to put in public, right? As in, it's an ******* thing to put in public anywhere. You outline a scenario that's likely to happen with any player in your previous post and all you do here is try and take a **** on someone. If you really and truly have an issue, take it to PMs and get your **** out of this thread.

I would support BSP's inclusion. He's not going to sink any games.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gheb, if you were actually paying attention to the thread, you'd know that there is a discrepancy w.r.t. how much skill certain players have. If Rockin could simply wave a magic wand to quickly and objectively determine if those players fit his requirements, then you're right, no one should be talking. That obviously isn't the case here.

For the record, Badwolf has more games than BSP (at least in Dgames I'm pretty sure), so TECHNICALLY Badwolf has more experience. However, that isn't an implication that Badwolf is more skilled than BSP. If you think BSP should be in the game, but Badwolf should not be, then you're inadvertently admitting that skill is a factor and that there is a degree of subjectivity involved in the process of analyzing these players, thus you're being an idiot by claiming we're being tools for debating subjectivity. Hell, if it isn't obvious, skill is clearly a factor because everyone seems to be acknowledging it as such.

This has more or less become a public debacle, so using this thread as a medium to give Rockin this kind of information isn't "stupid" because that's just how it happened. Personally, I'm just being nice and giving Rockin information that can help him in his decision making process. OF COURSE it's ultimately up to Rockin to make the decision for his own game, but if I can help him make a more informed decision, why the hell shouldn't I? (Think this speaks for everyone who has stated an opinion on it thus far.)

Get the **** out of here. Every time I start to think you're not a horrendous person, you do something to try and get on my ignore list again.

 

[Mastermind Super Fiend]

Yeah I feel BSP is a good player, while new. Yet as king I should remember he would need a bit of restraint if he can hold it.

 

[BarDulL]

You realize this is an ******* thing to put in public, right? As in, it's an ******* thing to put in public anywhere. You outline a scenario that's likely to happen with any player in your previous post and all you do here is try and take a **** on someone. If you really and truly have an issue, take it to PMs and get your **** out of this thread.

I would support BSP's inclusion. He's not going to sink any games.

He called me out and I responded, quit overreacting. You'd do the same exact thing if someone called you out on your logic.

We do this in Mafia and in real life ALL the time. If I have to substantiate my logic because my credibility or my assertion is put into question, I'll do it, no questions asked. If what I did seems harsh to you, then that's something I can't help you with.

 

[Evil Eye]

I support BSP's inclusion too. FFS it's not like we're trying to collect a roster of people who aren't capable of being wrong. Even ignoring the true impossibility of that, the point is just to collect people who will be active and won't risk an unforgivably bad **** up.

Hell, didn't McCloud play quite a bit of mafia in the super old school days? And yet he was super bad and irresponsible in Bad Idea Mafia 2. Really, it's just not about experience all that much, it's about if somebody has a good head on their shoulders, and BSP seems to to me

 

[BarDulL]

the point is just to collect people who will be active and won't risk an unforgivably bad **** up.

This is definitely something I can agree with. If everyone feels that he's not the kind of person that'll ruin a game, then that's all there is to it. I'm not the only one with an opinion here, y'know.

'Course, now we're treading into the finer details of things and it only gets hazy from here.

 

[BSP]

You realize this is an ******* thing to put in public, right? As in, it's an ******* thing to put in public anywhere. You outline a scenario that's likely to happen with any player in your previous post and all you do here is try and take a **** on someone. If you really and truly have an issue, take it to PMs and get your **** out of this thread.

I would support BSP's inclusion. He's not going to sink any games.

Err, it's fine. I like critique on my play. I did have this thing typed out to disagree, but I'm just going to drop it. Rockin can make his decision.

Yeah I feel BSP is a good player, while new. Yet as king I should remember he would need a bit of restraint if he can hold it.

Do you guys really think if I got King, I'm just going to execute whoever I feel like?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

He called me out and I responded, quit overreacting. You'd do the same exact thing if someone called you out on your logic.

We do this in Mafia and in real life ALL the time. If I have to substantiate my logic because my credibility or my assertion is put into question, I'll do it, no questions asked. If what I did seems harsh to you, then that's something I can't help you with.

There's no reason, whatsoever, to call someone out in that context.

I've seen BSP's play in PB and I'm not trying to say he's bad, but man, I'd be so salty if he becomes king and executes someone on the dumbest of premises (i.e. baseless paranoia instead of legitimate reasoning, for example). It's like giving a newb the governor slot which inadvertently allows him to potentially wreck the game for everyone. If Badwolf literally hasn't improved since Gheb's game, then yeah, I can see that argument being used against him as well and I have no qualms with it really.

If you guys really think that BSP won't do that, then ok, but I suspect that he probably will given from what I've seen in his previous play.

That's venomous for no reason. Nowhere did Rockin ask for your opinion and even if it was wanted, there's no reason to make such an assertion. You didn't challenge the inclusion of a man who has literally pulled the trigger on a Day Vig hours into the start of a game because he didn't want to read a slot with a good player in it, but you make the statement that someone is going to act on baseless paranoia which is horribly insulting and not an actual reason to bar their inclusion.

 

[Mastermind Super Fiend]

Do you guys really think if I got King, I'm just going to execute whoever I feel like?

Nah. I was just thinking of your vig comments. I just assumed you might handle it in a similar way. My bad if you would do your kingdom justice.