Death?

[Mr_Planters]

**** No. *******!

 

[Mediocre]

They annoy me too, but I try not to snap at the person confused about it, since it's not necessarily common sense.

Did I snap?

Another misconception that annoyed me a lot was "if evolution is real, why don't I see monkeys turning into people?". That one bugged me for a while since it was kinda obvious as long as you know the basics of evolution.

Yeah, that one's irritating too. Even more so than the two I mentioned in my previous post.

Umm... How about everyone just gives up and face the facts that there may/might not be a god. Sure I am Catholic but WE do not know if there is or is not a Afterlife. You cant prove God's dont exist and you cant prove they do exist. All we can do is have faith in what we believe and wait.

I do accept that there may be a God, even though I don't believe there is.

What bothers me is people who think that their belief in God (and souls, and heaven) is proof of His existence, and expect me and other atheists to be convinced by it.

 

[Red Exodus]

No, but when I read stuff like that I snap, which I almost did [kisses anger mangement book].

I believe there is a greater being, I accept the fact that there might not be one and I accept the fact that I could be living my life 'the wrong way'. But the one thing I hate more than ignorance and misconceptions is people who try to force their 'word' upon you. It only pushes me away and it makes me less likely to change my belief to anything else.

 

[Zook]

No scientist believes that we came from monkeys. Our closest living relatives are chimpanzees, and we didn't evolve from them either.

That wasn't my point.

 

[petre]

about the human vs. computer debate...

humans are capable of much more than we can ever know. we have the ability to learn, which is above anything a computer can do. we can adapt to situations. sure, you could program a computer to do that, but a human can adapt to a brand new situation. the first time a human being gets cold, they dont just die. they warm keep themselves warm, internally, from blood. when they get too hot, they sweat, to cool off. you can program a computer to turn on a fan or heater when the tempertature changes, but what if its never happened before, so you wouldnt know to program it into the computer? the computer cant 'know' that it needs to change its temperature, unless you have told it so. a human, on the other hand, automatically changes to adapt. in fact, a human can react somewhat effectively to any type of entirely new situation. imagine the first time someone got shot with a gun. it probably wasnt long before people learned its good to hide in a gunfight to avoid being shot, and such things. but even and advanced computer wouldnt know what to do, if it experienced a new situation. it could probably just test randomly different tactics until it found one that works, but the human mind can think things through, predict, visualize, and much more that we dont know to help make the best choices. simply put, a computer can only be as much as we know, and a human is far above what we will ever know.

on the rest of the after death debates...
there is absolutely no way to tell whats going to happen. you can predict if youre bored for fun or something, but there isnt much more reason than that. even if they do invent a revival machine or something, i can imagine theroies popping up, ''god knew he was going to be revived, so he didnt send that person where the people that are truly dead go, but to an alternate 'waiting room' of sorts''...so even then people's opinions and statements couldnt exactly be correct. although it would be slightly closer to the truth. however it will in theory never be 100% correct (but, if you think about it, someone could have and probably already has an opinion that actually is correct, so someone could already be 100% correct...i dont think its happened though.)

thats my fourteen cents.

 

[Virgilijus]

"Christians" celebrate easter. The Catholic Encyclopedia says" The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility.
The date of Christmas december 25th was to coincide exactly with the Roman festival of Saturnalia(where the romans worshipped the sun). Constantine did this so that Romans that converted to christianity wouldn't feel that they were missing any of the festivities
.

And none of these are church doctrine that actually affect the beliefs of the religion; the Church did not integrate Greek and Roman pantheism into it's dogma.

 

[Mediocre]

That wasn't my point.

Did I ever say it was?

You misrepresented the theory of evolution. Of course that wasn't your point, but that doesn't change the fact that you did it. I noticed it, and I responded to your misrepresentation.

I didn't respond to your point because I wasn't interested in responding to it.

I'm not trying to be mean here. It's just that you seem to think that I did something wrong by ignoring the bulk of your post, and that I'm somehow trying to sidestep your argument. Really, I ignored the bulk of your post because I agree with most of it, so I didn't think there was any reason to address it.

the first time a human being gets cold, they dont just die. they warm keep themselves warm, internally, from blood. when they get too hot, they sweat, to cool off. you can program a computer to turn on a fan or heater when the tempertature changes, but what if its never happened before, so you wouldnt know to program it into the computer?the computer cant 'know' that it needs to change its temperature, unless you have told it so. a human, on the other hand, automatically changes to adapt.

To be fair, humans have had millions of years of genetic "programming" on how to adapt to this and many other situations.

Computers have been around for a few decades, and have "evolved" far more rapidly than humans have.

in fact, a human can react somewhat effectively to any type of entirely new situation. imagine the first time someone got shot with a gun. it probably wasnt long before people learned its good to hide in a gunfight to avoid being shot, and such things. but even and advanced computer wouldnt know what to do, if it experienced a new situation. it could probably just test randomly different tactics until it found one that works, but the human mind can think things through, predict, visualize, and much more that we dont know to help make the best choices. simply put, a computer can only be as much as we know, and a human is far above what we will ever know.

Well, I'll agree with this, to an extent. Modern computers can't deal with a completely new situation.

I'm not sure that this will be true of computers in a few decades, though.

 

[Crimson King]

by the way, are all the people who existed before christianity supposed to have gone to hell?

Some denominations say yes. I forget which, but they claim if you died without being baptized (Babies too) you go straight to hell. Modern catholicism has adapted this because they didn't want to preach about a god who would send babies to hell.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Lmao. Stuff like that reminds me of the Davinci Code.

I take it you like ToS?

 

[pikachun00b7]

The arguments of weather there is an afterlife is petty.

Sure you can not prove the being of afterlife, but can you prove the being of your life? NO! You can not prove that we are alive to begin with. And weather you give me any scientific proof of life, BullCRAP! Science is based on the theory existence , but can you give any base to exisitence? NO! Because existence is nothing more then a theoretical realm of thought. And weather physically we are alive or dead does not deter what life really is. Life is the ability to think and the ownership of thought.To die is to not think, but why would we suddenly not think?So when we we die, our lives just leave the theoretical realm of existence and into a different place. So the afterlife is true if we accept our lives ,current, is true.

Typing this makes me feel stupid. well any way this is just a short summery of an exerpt on theories I am working on covering the basis of truth.
EDIT: As you see I am a die-hard idealist(i think that is how it is spelled?).
NOTE: To all those people who say catholic traditions have copied off pagens: Do youu see the Mcdonald's "M" well those, according to your logic, are the golden arches of Babylon like the ones in the bible. THOSE whoe eat at Mcdonalds are devills! mwahahahahahahaha



ohhhhhh.... and petre I agree with you but get better reasons. If I were opposing you I can easily discredit your information, so think it true.

 

[psicicle]

you could make it so that the computers "evolve" by making them do almnost random changes to their own code or even somehow assess whatever shortcoming was found and change according to that. I think I've read that robots have been programmed which had a "learning" program and became more and more efficient at oing their task.

 

[Blazey]

I've had so many of these kind of discussions lately that I want to kill myself... just to find out what happens.

 

[Peeze]

And none of these are church doctrine that actually affect the beliefs of the religion; the Church did not integrate Greek and Roman pantheism into it's dogma.

Okay well, lets see: The use if the cross in worship originated from the Celts of ancient Ireland, the belief in a trinity(which some christian denominations teach) comes from pagan origins as well, I 'm not 100% sure from where, but I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Virgilijus]

Okay well, lets see: The use if the cross in worship originated from the Celts of ancient Ireland, the belief in a trinity(which some christian denominations teach) comes from pagan origins as well, I 'm not 100% sure from where, but I'll get back to you on that.

The cross, the symbol of Jesus' most endearing gift, was known as a religious symbol before his crucifixion by many pagan religions. How does that show that Christianity stole them? What other symbol were they to show for their Savior? Just because they used the cross does not mean they were borrowing the meaning and intent of the pagans, which is what you are implying.

The Trinity is the same thing; most religions have a basis around the number three. To say that none are independently created because they share a number in common is not right. That is to say we stole the idea of the sun being a distant light source from the greeks (who thought it was a blazing chariot); we did not use their assumption in our rationalization but the idea that it was very far away was the same in both. In the end, similar theological revelations do not equate to interdependency.

 

[Peeze]

Well if you did your research, you would realize that the romans didn't "crucify" people on cross shaped beams, rather jesus was impaled on simple vertical pice of wood
Need Proof?
An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says: “Stauros[the greek word translated "cross" } denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun [stau·ros′] and the verb stauroō, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea[babylon], and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.”

Vine goes on to say: “By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.”

And as for the Trinity thing I see your point, most religions group their Gods in triads, but the Bible does not teach of God as being a trinity, but rather that he, his son and his holy spirit or ghost are 3 dfferent entities.

 

[Virgilijus]

I see your point, but by using the cross as a symbol of Jesus' death and crucifixion, the symbol holds none of it's former importance: newly reformed pagans did not go into churches to pray to their old gods while staring at Jesus on the cross. It is the same, in a positive turn, as the swastika and the symbol of the Third Reich; a small difference in a new time makes for a completely different meaning that need not bear association. While the cross is borrowed from other places, Jesus on the cross represented the power of Christianity better than the Ichthys or the Chi-Rho monogram and was so adopted; it brought no pagan theology into the church.

 

[Peeze]

The point of promoting the cross as a symbol of christianity was to draw non-christians to christianity. The swastika was a little known Oriental symbol, few people recognized before Hitler's Third Reich made it (in)famous. The cross was used in Egypt and Babylon, 2 major trading posts and centers of commerce in the ancient world. Almost all humans in that area had come into contact with the symbol. Thus the people of those times could relate to something they we're familiar with.

Besides, the use of symbols in worship isn't a christian teahing anyways. Exodus 20:4,5 says "You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them"
1 corinthians 6:16, 17 says "And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, and quit touching the unclean thing.
Would a pagan symbol not count as an unclean thing?

 

[Virgilijus]

Would a pagan who became Christian count as an unclean thing? No; a change in definition erases the intent of the past.

 

[Peeze]

You can't change the definition of an already established symbol just because people are familiar with it. Your not changing the definition, your masking it.
Would you eat a lolipop out of the gutter? Even though it looks appealing, it still has traces of foreign origins.
I'm really enjoying this discussion and your viewpoints, btw.

 

[Virgilijus]

You can't change the definition of an already established symbol just because people are familiar with it. Your not changing the definition, your masking it.

That is to say that if something once was, it always will be. A purple triangle used to be the mark the Nazi's would put on homosexuals before they sent them away to concentration camps or killed them yet now, after being turned upside down, it is a symbol of gay pride. Are homosexuals just masking the symbol of an abomination and using it for their own means? No; the triangle has a completely different meaning now. It's intent in the past is long gone and it's not even acknowledged as remotely true any more. The same can be said for the Christian Cross; only it's present (and past down to it's Christian incarnation) symbolism remains and it's used. There is no paganism in the cross any more.

 

[Peeze]

A purple triangle was used to identify Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi camps, a pink triangle was used to identify homosexuals. Besides they use it as a rembrance of the fact that they were persecuted for being gay, and yet they still stood firm. The meaning has changed somewhat, but it is still remembered as being a symbol of gays in concentration camps.

The cross isn't considered pagan by most because most people believe jesus was impaled on a cross which has introduced a pagan idea into what the bible clearly says was an upright pole.

 

[Virgilijus]

The cross isn't considered pagan by most because most people believe jesus was impaled on a cross which has introduced a pagan idea into what the bible clearly says was an upright pole.

That is not a pagan idea; ideas are thoughts that are carried out, that are believed in, that hold weight in merit in those that see them. How many Christians that look at Jesus on the cross think of pagan gods? How would their prayers and worship be transferred to an indirected theology. You make it seem that this former pagan symbol has the ability to siphon the faith of Christians though they are adamantly against it. Are they worshiping the cross? No; they are worshiping the believed Son of Man who died on it. And that is only Christian.

 

[shadenexus18]

Yes, it may be more than that. But I see no reason to believe that it is.



What makes me special?

Nothing.



Computers don't breath, exactly, but they do need electricity to work. They don't sleep, exactly, but they do need to be turned off sometimes or else they won't really be able to function. They don't speak, exactly, but they definitely have a "code of communication." They don't have vital "organs" exactly, but they definitely have vital components.

I'll admit that they don't have feelings. But I think it's only a matter of time until some of them do.

Finally, souls? When you prove to me that humans have souls, then you can use that as an example of the differences between people and computers. Not before.



You don't know. You believe.

I don't believe.

I don't believe that people have souls, and I don't see any reason to believe it. I'd love if it were true. Dying scares me, frankly. But I guess ignorance and self-delusion scares me even more.

You're welcome to believe in souls. I have no problem with you believing whatever you want to believe. But don't expect me to believe in something that it's impossible to observe in any way.



People are afraid of death. The idea of a soul is their way to avoid that fear.

I don't believe that current computers are "alive." However, I don't think that there's any reason future computers (or robots, or whatever) couldn't meet nearly all the conditions necessary to qualify as life. The only conditions they might fail to meet are the ones that are (in my opinion) rather arbitrary, such as being carbon-based and having DNA.



Someone who was familiar with computers could easily attach sensors to a computer which would allow it to feel the impact of your fist. After all, don't keyboards essentially "feel" the pressure from your finger, and transmit that "feeling" to the computer?



You're right. Religion and science can't really mix. However, there are parts of both of them that can coexist.

This is actually one of the areas in which I think that they can mix. There's no way science can ever disprove the existence of a soul. Similarly, there's no way Christianity (or any other religion) can prove it.

There's no incompatibility there, as far as I can see. You can easily believe in both the existence of a soul, and every scientific principal we have.



Well, it's fine with me that you believe that.

Just don't expect to convince me with faith alone. Until I see evidence, I don't intend to believe anything.




Anyhow, none of that is really at all relevant to the topic at hand, but those kinds of misconceptions about evolution really bother me.

She doesn't......believe?! *Gulp* Someone get the holy oil ASAP!!! Psyche, I'm just playin with ya. Before I continue with this conversation I just want to put it out there that I'm not trying to force Christianity on you. Furthermore, I'm not trying to beat you over the head with my Bible or beliefs. Is it my responsiblity to make sure that you ascend to heaven and make sure that you are saved? Well of course it is, but I'm certainly not going to try to attempt to do this over the Internet! Maybe in person perhaps, but even that's pushing it.

Tell me Mediocre, are you dealing with low self-esteem issues or something? You keep saying that you are not "special". Why don't you try being more optimistic okay?

As a human being you are not just special, you're unique. I don't tell you this to make you feel good, I tell you this simply because what I say is very true. 1#: You and I have a personality that makes you different from everyone else in the world. 2#: From what I can see from your posts, you are able to communicate to others let alone myself in a very, very, intellegent manner. 3#: Merely the fact that you are still alive and that you still exist in this world makes you special. Some "divine entity" out there must favor you and I if we have been alive for this long. Therefore, we must be destined for great things or we must still have to carry out some mission while we're here on Earth, our purpose so to speak. Is it necessary for me to continue?

Also, just because I believe in Christ does not mean that I'm not afraid of death, but why worry yourself with such a trival matter. This is out of our control sis. There's no way that we can stop this event from happening unless we find the fountain of youth or the fruits of longevity. However, knowing that I will ascend to heaven and have everlasting life (not to mention that my name is in the "Lambs Book of Life") gives me some comfort.

In addition, you bring up some solid arguments about how I can't prove that a human being has a soul even though I still believe we have one. All I can do his hold fast to my biblical principles stating that I have one. I guess the only individual's that have possession of this information are the people that have already died. Isn't that somethin!?

 

[Crimson King]

Mediocre is a guy. That pretty much made your post laughable at best.

 

[shadenexus18]

Mediocre is a guy. That pretty much made your post laughable at best.

But I assumed since that she had a pony as his avatar & all that he was a girl. My fault, my fault.

Urgh! Assumptions are killin me on this site! On the real!

 

[Zink]

lol @ being a Catholic and noticing that science and religion are unconflicting...
This whole upright stake thing from Peeze is silly. One random guy says it was a pole. However, is there any proof that that particular word is used? That it isn't an idiom? Is there a way to show that despite the Romas using crucifixion as a normal death punishment, they wouldn't for Jesus, whom they regarded as a normal criminal?

In addition, I see easily the most common anti-Christian fallacy repeated again and again... not all Old Testament laws still apply. New Covenant and all that.

As for death... meh, not gonna worry. What happens happens, but till then I'll be chillin.

 

[Mediocre]

She doesn't......believe?! *Gulp* Someone get the holy oil ASAP!!! Psyche, I'm just playin with ya. Before I continue with this conversation I just want to put it out there that I'm not trying to force Christianity on you. Furthermore, I'm not trying to beat you over the head with my Bible or beliefs. Is it my responsiblity to make sure that you ascend to heaven and make sure that you are saved? Well of course it is, but I'm certainly not going to try to attempt to do this over the Internet! Maybe in person perhaps, but even that's pushing it.

You know, I really don't mind when Christians try to convert me. You think you're doing the right thing, and it doesn't really hurt me, so I don't mind a bit.

I think it's pretty much a wasted effort. I'm really much too logical (not to mention cynical) to be swayed by something like another person's belief. But you're welcome to try.

Tell me Mediocre, are you dealing with low self-esteem issues or something? You keep saying that you are not "special". Why don't you try being more optimistic okay?

I don't have any self-esteem issues. Well, no relevant ones, anyway. Nobody's completely self-confident, but I'm not bad.

I don't consider myself pessimistic either, really. Realistic, more like. I don't just believe in something with no evidence behind it. As such, I don't believe in God, souls, or an afterlife.

Really, my lack of belief in an afterlife has nothing to do with how I live the life I've actually got. I generally don't let it get to me. Sure, it's kind of depressing, but I think it's the truth, and I'm living with it. Eventually, I'll die with it, but until then I'm going to lead what I consider "a good life."

1#: You and I have a personality that makes you different from everyone else in the world.

Yep.

But that doesn't make me special. It just makes me unique.

2#: From what I can see from your posts, you are able to communicate to others let alone myself in a very, very, intellegent manner.

I'm not going to dispute this. I think I'm pretty **** intelligent. Not to say that there aren't people smarter than me, and I know I've done some pretty dumb things in my life, but generally I think that I'm smarter than average.

But what's your point? How does that make me "special?" There are plenty of intelligent people out there, and a lot of them are smarter than me.

3#: Merely the fact that you are still alive and that you still exist in this world makes you special.

Oh, I see. Everybody's "special." A person can be special just by existing.

If that's true, what's the point? There's no real meaning to being "special" if everybody fits into that "special" category. A label is only usful if it fits some things and doesn't fit others.

So, if I accept that everyone is special, like you say, explain to me what special means.

Some "divine entity" out there must favor you and I if we have been alive for this long. Therefore, we must be destined for great things or we must still have to carry out some mission while we're here on Earth, our purpose so to speak. Is it necessary for me to continue?

Oh, is that your definition of "special?" If being special means being cared for by a "divine entity", I definitely don't believe that I'm special.

Also, just because I believe in Christ does not mean that I'm not afraid of death, but why worry yourself with such a trival matter. This is out of our control sis.

I'd hardly call it trivial, but I do agree that there's no sense worrying about it.

However, knowing that I will ascend to heaven and have everlasting life (not to mention that my name is in the "Lambs Book of Life") gives me some comfort.

You don't know. You believe.

You have faith, and I don't. You're not going to convince me to believe through faith alone.

But I assumed since that she had a pony as his avatar & all that he was a girl. My fault, my fault.

Yeah, I've gotten this before. It's understandable, really.

I find it hilarious that you referred to me as "sis", though.

 

[tmw_redcell]

If we're wrong we just die and that's it but if we're right, guess who is going to heaven?

What if the Bible was written on Opposite Wednesday?

What then? What then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager#Criticisms_of_Pascal.27s_wager

I don't believe in deities, an afterlife, souls, unicorns, or free will, but I'm a pretty happy guy.

As for people being special, I like to make what I call the Rock Explanation. Every rock is unique. A person is no more special for being intelligent than a rock is special for being big, or shiny, or rough. What is the meaning of human existence?

The same as a rock's. People do things, sure. A person might have a family and believe in something passionately and lead a nation and change history forever. A rock might determine the direction of the wind or the water. It is the same. Lifeforms are just a physical and natural and important as a puddle of mud. Having thoughts and ideas and feelings do not change this.

 

[Cyphus]

to me...theres just a BIG difference between open mindedness and gullibility.
afterlife falls in the same category as "god."

"An invisible man living the sky. He watches all of us[...] gives us free will, but if we choose to do wrong we go to hell (wow some choice) we're we choke, burn,etc for all of eternity...but he LOVES YOU!!!" ~George Carlin

the thing is...No 2 people have the exact same concept of god, so IF the above doesn't fit ur description ur not alone..but Not any more correct.

Lets say i believe in invisible, pink unicorns.
Prove to me they don't exist.
You can't.
Therefore i conclude it is a rational belief they may exist.

All you religous people are working it like this....BACKWARDS. The burden of proof lies on you.
Now i could CHOOSE to believe EVERYTHING imaginable and unimaginable is possible, but where would that get me? Certainly my biases will control such LUXURY to hold dearest the concepts that benefit my nature the most- such as positive affirmations as a spiritual leader, an afterlife, etc.
its just wishful thinking to keep people going and be happy.

"why don't i just kill myself?"
cuz i don't feel like it?...what a stupid question. Animals have no concept of religion and seem to be pretty happy and very pro-existant. I enjoy life, no matter its absolute truth. Although to some extent, i believe its better to live a happy lie, than search for truth and never finding it. Ignorance may be bliss, but obliviousness is practically an orgasm.

 

[Virgilijus]

"An invisible man living the sky. He watches all of us[...] gives us free will, but if we choose to do wrong we go to hell (wow some choice) we're we choke, burn,etc for all of eternity...but he LOVES YOU!!!" ~George Carlin

I fail to see how that isn't free will; you can do anything you want, anything in the world. But after the end of your physical life you are judged by what you did. If this is true, there is no forcing. Mothers love their children though they punish them; a judge will throw away his son if he deserved it yet they both still love them.

And as for proving God exists, it takes faith. I cannot share with you the personal experiences I have felt that tell me God exists nor can any of the long dead prophets. The intangible proof exists for me, and how can I tell myself that it doesn't exist?

The thing is, I know (without my experience) that all of your points are strong and from a completely outside and newborn perspective can be very probable. And as I hold respect for your opinions while you may hold mine as imaginative rubbish, please don't attack it with mockery. This isn't even a "religion" thread, and if it turns into one (like all the ones before it), we all know that young pups will come in flaming the other side and it will be closed in due time.

So, to get back on topic: I believe there is an afterlife.

 

[shadenexus18]

Really, my lack of belief in an afterlife has nothing to do with how I live the life I've actually got. I generally don't let it get to me. Sure, it's kind of depressing, but I think it's the truth, and I'm living with it. Eventually, I'll die with it, but until then I'm going to lead what I consider "a good life."



Yep.

But that doesn't make me special. It just makes me unique.



I'm not going to dispute this. I think I'm pretty **** intelligent. Not to say that there aren't people smarter than me, and I know I've done some pretty dumb things in my life, but generally I think that I'm smarter than average.

But what's your point? How does that make me "special?" There are plenty of intelligent people out there, and a lot of them are smarter than me.



Oh, I see. Everybody's "special." A person can be special just by existing.

If that's true, what's the point? There's no real meaning to being "special" if everybody fits into that "special" category. A label is only usful if it fits some things and doesn't fit others.

So, if I accept that everyone is special, like you say, explain to me what special means.


I'd hardly call it trivial, but I do agree that there's no sense worrying about it.



You don't know. You believe.

You have faith, and I don't. You're not going to convince me to believe through faith alone.



Yeah, I've gotten this before. It's understandable, really.

I find it hilarious that you referred to me as "sis", though.

I'll define the term "special" in my own words. Lets see......it's when an individual possesses unique traits or attributes about them; these traits or attributes makes you rare, thus separating you from the average joe smow. For example, I'm a child prodigy. Not many people can say that they could communicate, read the daily newspaper, and develop sentences at the age of 8 months. This makes me "special" cause it separates me from the norm.

Oh okay, so you need to be told that you are "special." You need approval from society as a whole to be considered "special." I believe you're missing the point. Who cares what everyone else thinks. You don't need there approval to be considered "special" bro. If YOU think that you are "special" then that will have to suffice, period.

And yes everyone is able to be "special." We all have brains so it's a level playing field. Some specific individuals have all of this unlimited potential to be "special," but they fail to apply themselves in this category.

Finally, I'll share this you mi hermano. I gave my life to Christ at the age of 10; however, I required 6 years later down the road to truly grasp Christianity in all of it's entirety. Like I said before I saw the light. I litterly had something called a "spiritual breakthrough." That's when I truly "got" Christianity, when it started to truly make sense. There was this apostle that spoke to my church during one of my church's revivals. I can not possibly fathom how he possessed such spiritual knowledge about everything in the Bible. It's as if Christ was speaking directly through him. All of my senses & intellect were increased dramatically that day. After that day, I've had visions, signs, and phophecies about the unknown answers of Christianty that I seek. So maybe that's just what you need to get truly saved, a "spiritual breakthrough."

The afterlife of the three worlds (Earth, heaven, and hell) are so complicated and complex. Ironically, death and the afterlife all tie to religion. It just simply can't be helped.

 

[Sporkman]

I fail to see how that isn't free will; you can do anything you want, anything in the world. But after the end of your physical life you are judged by what you did. If this is true, there is no forcing. Mothers love their children though they punish them; a judge will throw away his son if he deserved it yet they both still love them.

Big-G loves you but will send you somewhere where you choke and burn for all eternity. Choking and burning for all eternity is slightly different from a spell behind bars or a punishment. A punishment is more a disicipline check, much like the bible. Kings were Kings because of a 'divine right', it's almost like an extremely clever and elaborate ruse to keep the peasant's in check.

I gave my life to Christ at the age of 10; however, I required 6 years later down the road to truly grasp Christianity in all of it's entirety. Like I said before I saw the light. I litterly had something called a "spiritual breakthrough." That's when I truly "got" Christianity, when it started to truly make sense.

At 16 you lost it son. Insanity. Religion does everything except make sense.

Lets see......it's when an individual possesses unique traits or attributes about them; these traits or attributes makes you rare, thus separating you from the average joe smow.

So define average jow smow, and give me an example. You are contradicting yourself now, because if everyone is special as you say, there is no such thing as an average joe smow.

And yes everyone is able to be "special." We all have brains so it's a level playing field. Some specific individuals have all of this unlimited potential to be "special," but they fail to apply themselves in this category.

The human mind does not have unlimited potential. For starters, the ability to learn severely decreases as you get older. Just because we all have brains it is hardly a level playing field. What about those with mental and/or physical disabilities? Of course, these people are still called special, but for a completely different reason. Not everyone is playing in the same league. How about those autistics?

You know, for a loving and benevolent guy, The G-meister is one hell of a selfish prick. A symbol of good and no evil has a vice? how could that be. G-man does not give you a choice. If you ever read the 10 commandents it is strictly imperatives. "Do not worship any other gods", "Do not make any idols", "Do not misuse the name of God". The only reason you discern yourself to have a choice is because he doesn't actually exist to stop you. And don't say it's because he doesn't have a physical entity. He made the earth in 6 ****ing days, i think he can stop me taking his name in vain.

 

[Virgilijus]

The only reason you discern yourself to have a choice is because he doesn't actually exist to stop you. And don't say it's because he doesn't have a physical entity. He made the earth in 6 ****ing days, i think he can stop me taking his name in vain.

But he won't because he gives you the free will to not listen to him.

And I'm not going to argue any more religious debate here; PM me otherwise.

 

[Peeze]

lol @ being a Catholic and noticing that science and religion are unconflicting...
This whole upright stake thing from Peeze is silly. One random guy says it was a pole. However, is there any proof that that particular word is used? That it isn't an idiom? Is there a way to show that despite the Romas using crucifixion as a normal death punishment, they wouldn't for Jesus, whom they regarded as a normal criminal?

Have you studied the techniques that romans used to impale people, or are you just listening to what you've always been taught? That "one random guy" was actually on of the translators of the bible from Roman, where the word translated "cross" actually means stake an upright pole, not a cross.
Oh and what do you mean the "old testament" doesn't apply? 1 Timothy 3:16(in the "new Testament") says "All scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching...etc."

Big-G loves you but will send you somewhere where you choke and burn for all eternity. Choking and burning for all eternity is slightly different from a spell behind bars or a punishment. A punishment is more a disicipline check, much like the bible. Kings were Kings because of a 'divine right', it's almost like an extremely clever and elaborate ruse to keep the peasant's in check.

You know, for a loving and benevolent guy, The G-meister is one hell of a selfish prick. A symbol of good and no evil has a vice? how could that be. G-man does not give you a choice. If you ever read the 10 commandents it is strictly imperatives. "Do not worship any other gods", "Do not make any idols", "Do not misuse the name of God". The only reason you discern yourself to have a choice is because he doesn't actually exist to stop you. And don't say it's because he doesn't have a physical entity. He made the earth in 6 ****ing days, i think he can stop me taking his name in vain.

Preachers and pastors teach burning in hell, the bible doesn't. Jeremiah 7:31 says the thought of burning his children never came up into his heart.

And how is his wanting his creations to serve him selfish? Did your parents make you obey their rules? Was that selfish?And your right god does have the power to destroy men, but he gives you the chance to turn to him. 2 Peter 3:9 says "God is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed, but desires all to attain tio repentance."
Satan told God that people only worship him because he protects them, and said if men experienced hardship he would not serve God.We have free will to prove Satan's charge wrong. God tells us at Proverbs 27:11 that our worshipping him makes his heart rejoice and furnishes a reply to the one taunting him Satan.

 

[shadenexus18]

Never assume someone on the internet is a girl. Write that down.

Everyone is unique. Therefore, everyone is the same. Paradox.



Big-G loves you but will send you somewhere where you choke and burn for all eternity. Choking and burning for all eternity is slightly different from a spell behind bars or a punishment. A punishment is more a disicipline check, much like the bible. Kings were Kings because of a 'divine right', it's almost like an extremely clever and elaborate ruse to keep the peasant's in check.



At 16 you lost it son. Insanity. Religion does everything except make sense.



So define average jow smow, and give me an example. You are contradicting yourself now, because if everyone is special as you say, there is no such thing as an average joe smow.



The human mind does not have unlimited potential. For starters, the ability to learn severely decreases as you get older. Just because we all have brains it is hardly a level playing field. What about those with mental and/or physical disabilities? Of course, these people are still called special, but for a completely different reason. Not everyone is playing in the same league. How about those autistics?

You know, for a loving and benevolent guy, The G-meister is one hell of a selfish prick. A symbol of good and no evil has a vice? how could that be. G-man does not give you a choice. If you ever read the 10 commandents it is strictly imperatives. "Do not worship any other gods", "Do not make any idols", "Do not misuse the name of God". The only reason you discern yourself to have a choice is because he doesn't actually exist to stop you. And don't say it's because he doesn't have a physical entity. He made the earth in 6 ****ing days, i think he can stop me taking his name in vain.

Mental Note: Don't assume that a person on the internet is a girl. Got it.

Now then where do I start....That's right, God is a mercefull deity giving you chance after chance after chance to repent for your sins and also alligning yourself with him through being monothesim. (the worship of one God) Christianity isn't the only way that will get you into his kingdom or any other religion for that matter. You'll make it if you have a personal relationship with "Him." So yeah, there are plenty of loopholes. Also, yes, God's love will be unconditional even if you are eternally burning in Hell. It must be your fault if you end up there after Judgement Day. If you were given ample opportunities to be saved and you ignored all of those opportunities well then your screwed. He'll either say "Well done my good & faithful servant" or he'll say "Part from me, for I have never known you." All in all, it's tough love. Harsh, but love nonetheless. I think C.S. Lewis said it best when he explained why God tosses his ignorant children into Hell......

"You wanted me to leave you alone and let you be. Now I will leave you alone forever."

You say that I insane. Just please do this for me: Do not trifial with things that you do not understand. Dwell on this for a minute. 1#: Bible terminology (thou, shalt, thy, thee,) started to make perfect sense without the assistance of the NIV. 2#: Christ does leave us with questions that we have yet to find the answers to like Are there other humans on other planets? Why in the world did you allow something so horrific like "the Holocaust" occur when you claim that the Jews were your chosen people? You forsaken them! You said it in your word of God that you would not ever give them to much to bare!!! What about the children/infants that were killed before they could ever get even so much as one opportunity to be saved?

These questions will be answered in heaven, for the Bible only has the Old/New Testaments. The Old Testament speaks about a Messiah coming on Earth. The New Testament states that the Messiah is here, and of course the aftermath. That's basically what the Bible is all about. Everything else that the Bible has to offer are principles that you apply to your everyday life, well, the most recent stuff of course. (we don't have to sacrifice animals anymore)

Also, I meant that every single person is special in God's eyes.......not mine. Those physically & mentally disabled still have the potential to be "special" in a positive manner. For example, Helen Keller was both blind and deaf if I'm not mistaken and yet she still overcame the odds by writing famous books. She was born deaf & blind. Ludwig von Beethtoven wrote his best symphonies & music while he was deaf. Do I need to go on?

Now I've got a question: Will someone try to explain "the Trinity" to me? (The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?)

 

[Crimson King]

Stop preaching in a topic about death. I get that you were provoked, but cease and desist. If you really want to continue a religious debate, either PM whoever it is you are debating, or apply to the DH after DWYP.

 

[shadenexus18]

Stop preaching in a topic about death. I get that you were provoked, but cease and desist. If you really want to continue a religious debate, either PM whoever it is you are debating, or apply to the DH after DWYP.

Can a brotha get an Amen?! Nah, I'm just playin, but seriously can I make a religion thread or something Crimson?

 

[Zink]

CK holds a premium on debates in his room. And you won't be able to get in until after DWYP, which at the current rate will be over in about three years. :/
Maybe we should actually talk about death instead of religion, directly. For example, I heard a lot of people saying the brain is all just chemicals reacting. So, why not go out and make a brain? You can buy all the chem you need for about $20. But it won't work. I propose that there is more than chemicals to the human mind, and that after physical death this extra continues on.

 

[Crimson King]

Religion topics in the proom just turn to flame fests. Wait until DWYP is over.

 

[Zink]

Not locking the thread, then?