Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[DeltaSceptile]

Arcanine?

That was my first guess too.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Arcanine?

Correct.

Zygrade 10% Form.

Quick question, what did you use to edit these?

That's the bottom right, but one of them nonetheless.

As for the program, I used Paint.net. I'm not the best when it comes to recolors, but I know my way around the program. Started by tearing Lycanroc apart, piece by piece, having them all separate on different layers. Then changed the color of the layers/pieces one by one.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Correct

That’s what I thought when I first saw it, I was just asking to make sure.

 

[RandomAce]

Correct.


That's the bottom right, but one of them nonetheless.

As for the program, I used Paint.net. I'm not the best when it comes to recolors, but I know my way around the program. Started by tearing Lycanroc apart, piece by piece, having them all separate on different layers. Then changed the color of the layers/pieces one by one.

Alright, thanks!

I might do one for Midday and Midnight but with actual images.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I have a few in mind...

I'm not the greatest when it comes to recolors, but these are all palettes I'd like to see. Applied them all to Dusk Lycanroc, since he's the only one out of the trio I see with a significant chance. As for the swaps themselves, they're all based off existing dog Pokemon, rather than based off real wolf coat colors. Which Pokemon the palette swaps should be obvious.

Oh my goodness, I LOVE Dusk Form with Midnight palette.

 

[Delzethin]

So, something interesting came to mind overnight.

Has anyone else noticed Ultimate's emphasis on vertical portraits so far? The pre-fight screen has the fighters in vertical columns, the website's fighters page has the faces of highlighted characters shown above the icons for the roster, et cetera. This setup is clearly designed for characters who stand upright...so how would that work if Midday or Dusk Lycanroc got in?

The solution is actually pretty interesting: They'd probably use some kind of dynamic leaping pose.

I definitely support Lycanroc being in Smash! My idea as I read through the first post was that Lycanroc could be able to switch between forms like Pokemon Trainer. However, I would like to see it approached in a way that uses a different button combination. Since Charizard is missing out on Rock Smash, for example, the Down B (afaik) is the Pokemon switch. For Lycanroc, I was thinking about a possible Inkling Ink-Recovery situation, in which you use your shield, then use B to recover ink (except in this case, you'd be switching from one form to another! Perhaps you could have directional inputs to choose which one?). While it may not be as fast of a switch as it is for PKMN Trainer, this leaves room for a Down-B for each of Lycanroc's forms, so staying as one would possibly be more viable.

Welcome, both to the boards and to our corner of it. That's an interesting take on a multi-form concept, though perhaps with the risk of being difficult for newer players to understand...

 

[RandomAce]

So, something interesting came to mind overnight.

Has anyone else noticed Ultimate's emphasis on vertical portraits so far? The pre-fight screen has the fighters in vertical columns, the website's fighters page has the faces of highlighted characters shown above the icons for the roster, et cetera. This setup is clearly designed for characters who stand upright...so how would that work if Midday or Dusk Lycanroc got in?

The solution is actually pretty interesting: They'd probably use some kind of dynamic leaping pose

Or it means we’re only getting Midnight .

Tbh, aren’t the renders for the newcomers and missing veterans more tame than the others? A dynamic leaping pose for Midday/Dusk would look cool, but since they’re probably going to be making amiibos of them they might just have Midday/Dusk in a downward position, and just show it’s face.

Although, I wouldn’t put it past them to just make a cool pose like that for them anyways.

 

[Cosmic77]

So Lycanroc didn't even appear in today's episode of the anime. That's disappointing.

Needless to say, I don't think he'll be appearing much (if at all) in these next two episodes of the arc. By the time he gets another shot at the spotlight, we'll probably know the fate of Pokemon in Ultimate. If we want more supporting evidence for Lycanroc, we'll just have to look in places outside the anime.

 

[RandomAce]

So Lycanroc didn't even appear in today's episode of the anime. That's disappointing.

Needless to say, I don't think he'll be appearing much (if at all) in these next two episodes of the arc. By the time he gets another shot at the spotlight, we'll probably know the fate of Pokemon in Ultimate. If we want more supporting evidence for Lycanroc, we'll just have to look in places outside the anime.

Wait the 88th one?

How did you see it? I wasn’t able to find it anywhere.

 

[Delzethin]

So Lycanroc didn't even appear in today's episode of the anime. That's disappointing.

Needless to say, I don't think he'll be appearing much (if at all) in these next two episodes of the arc. By the time he gets another shot at the spotlight, we'll probably know the fate of Pokemon in Ultimate. If we want more supporting evidence for Lycanroc, we'll just have to look in places outside the anime.

Eh, oh well. We may not be gaining much besides that mural, but as long as the cat isn't getting the spotlight instead like other speculators are assuming must be happening, then we're still fine for now.

Though now Gladion's Lycanroc is doing stuff again. Funny how that works, isn't it? Kukui's Incineroar being in two self-contained episodes is being treated by Smash speculators as this big rivalry that must be foreshadowing Ash's Torracat taking the starring role, yet apparently Gladion's Lycanroc doesn't count as a rival figure despite showing up first, appearing in more episodes, being a direct part of Ash's Lycanroc's motivation to keep growing as a fighter, having more connections to the overall story arc, and being actively involved in the plot multiple times now including an arc that is happening as we speak?

 

[PF9]

I'm the writer of the Rockruff line entry on the Fanon Pokedex at TVTropes.

Lycanroc are very interesting Pokemon so to speak, they are devoted parents to the Rockruff pups especially (like the animals they are based on).

We have two wolf characters playable in Smash so far, Lucario and Wolf. A third wouldn't hurt.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu (deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu ( deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

Interesting. While this does not reveal much new information, it does give us a couple of small clues if it is legitimate. First, ultra beasts are not competition, unless something weird like Necrozma summoning Ultra Beasts for moves was chosen. Secondly, if all forms of Lycanroc were displayed, then I assume the one that would be pushed would be Dusk. I feel that the idea of a middleground would be interesting. While Vergeben is saying that he has heard it was Incineroar, he clearly is not as confident in that. I think we still got a good shot.

 

[RandomAce]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu ( deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

If this is true (which I’m assuming this is) then it at least puts the nail in the coffin that Lycanroc is in fact one of the most pushed Pokémon for this generation, and all three forms were shown off.

We also at least get to know who else it might be if it’s true that Decidueye or Lycanroc aren’t chosen... however seeing how Vergeben said he wasn’t sure if it was Incineroar either since he only heard it from one of sources while not the others at least gives us a chance.

Although, BluePikmin11 , what design notes aren’t you talking about?

Anyways, this is certainly interesting information, let’s get Delzethin to see what is thoughts are.

 

[BluePikmin11]

One more thing to say about the rumored information. The source also said that Sakurai visited Game Freak twice, once in 2015 and a second time last year. That is pretty much everything the friend's source gave.

If this is true (which I’m assuming this is) then it at least puts the nail in the coffin that Lycanroc is in fact one of the most pushed Pokémon for this generation, and all three forms were shown off.

We also at least get to know who else it might be if it’s true that Decidueye or Lycanroc aren’t chosen... however seeing how Vergeben said he wasn’t sure if it was Incineroar either since he only heard it from one of sources while not the others at least gives us a chance.

Although, BluePikmin11 , what design notes aren’t you talking about?

Anyways, this is certainly interesting information, let’s get Delzethin to see what is thoughts are.

Aren't? Or are?

The notes are the Japanese text written for each concept to describe each Pokemon, that is what my friend told me:

 

[RandomAce]

One more thing to say about the rumored information. The source also said that Sakurai visited Game Freak twice, once in 2015 and a second time last year. That is pretty much everything the friend's source gave.



Aren't? Or are?

The notes are the Japanese text written for each concept to describe each Pokemon, that is what my friend told me:

I think this might scare me a little.

Is this all that Sakurai obtained? Because if so, then Incineroar might be the winner here due to how detailed it’s concept art is.

However, if Sakurai obtained more information, such as it’s typing, what it can do, along with it’s presence, we actually have a much greater chance.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think this might scare me a little.

Is this all that Sakurai obtained? Because if so, then Incineroar might be the winner here due to how detailed it’s concept art is.

However, if Sakurai obtained more information, such as it’s typing, what it can do, along with it’s presence, we actually have a much greater chance.

My friend said the source saw just images of Pokemon concepts that Sakurai was looking at or at least being given prior to the roster finalization, that is what led to the source believing these were the candidates considered back in 2015. I think there a good chance that there is more material that Game Freak would share to Sakurai if a certain Pokemon catches his attention.

 

[Delzethin]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu (deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

Hm...

Do we know for sure that your friend's source can be trusted? With all the misinformation flying around, we need something rock solid, some kind of proof that your friend isn't also being strung along. We don't want to start proclaiming stuff without dotting every I and crossing every T, you know?

That said...if it is correct, it's quite interesting. For one, it'd mean there was a lot more being considered than many of us have thought. For two, it'd confirm that Dusk Lycanroc was designed that far ahead of time, and we have reason to think it'd have been planned to end up a really big deal even back then. Though that bit about the Ballot is weird--the answers couldn't lie there for us since it took place entirely before Gen 7 was announced. If anything, having every newcomer be chosen from the Ballot would only make our chances nil until DLC gets going.

There're a lot of unanswered questions here. For now, keep an eye on it, but I'm not sure we know enough to trust it yet.

I think this might scare me a little.

Is this all that Sakurai obtained? Because if so, then Incineroar might be the winner here due to how detailed it’s concept art is.

However, if Sakurai obtained more information, such as it’s typing, what it can do, along with it’s presence, we actually have a much greater chance.

Well...from a designer's standpoint, would you want to rely on just one sheet of concept art? From the source's standpoint, would you want to send a developer one sheet of concept art for reference and hope they get every detail right? No, there're so many more details that wouldn't be made clear there. Wouldn't it make more sense for there to also be other notes, design details, lore, et cetera? Especially since Sakurai and Junichi Masuda go way back. Double especially since even we got lore for each new 'mon the moment they were revealed!

Odds are--at least, I hope--that there must have been more than just the single sheets of concept art we've seen. They'd have needed more just to get an accurate feel for what each character could do! And an awful lot of speculators aren't considering this...

I'm the writer of the Rockruff line entry on the Fanon Pokedex at TVTropes.

Lycanroc are very interesting Pokemon so to speak, they are devoted parents to the Rockruff pups especially (like the animals they are based on).

We have two wolf characters playable in Smash so far, Lucario and Wolf. A third wouldn't hurt.

Welcome! So that project's still going on over there, huh? Should I count you down as a supporter?

Also, some advice for your entry: Borrowing a bunch of real world sayings and sticking them into the Pokémon universe feels really clunky and awkward. Might I recommend coming up with others that'd feel like they naturally happened in the setting?

 

[PF9]

I'm a supporter yes

 

[fortun8]

All that info is pretty interesting! While I'm still going to take it with a grain of salt, it gives me some hope for the future. I would also be totally fine with Golisopod...we'll have to wait and see!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The only way I could see the ballot factoring into Pokémon representation is if Sceptile's common "he's grass, so he's new and cool" reasoning caught Sakurai's attention and chose Decidueye.

 

[Cosmic77]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu (deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

This is very interesting to read, but I feel like most of this reaffirms what I already believed.

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu (deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.

It should go without saying that Sakurai considered multiple Pokemon. That shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone. I suppose Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma are Pokemon I've been underestimating, but I stand by my initial opinion that none of those three will get in Smash.

-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.

So the notes that we saw were the same ones Sakurai used? That's what I expected. The concept art is what helped Greninja get in Smash. Although, I really wonder what else Sakurai looked at when he made his decision. Surely he asked them questions about promotion and possible popularity, right?

-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.

Now this is one thing that I wasn't really sure of. I initially thought mid-2016 may have been the earliest Sakurai would've known about Dusk, but if this is true, then Dusk Lycanroc was a viable option all the way back in 2015/early 2016. In my eyes, this would push Lycanroc back to being the most-likely Pokemon to get in Smash, as it would now have anime relevance, game promotion, and perfect timing.

-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.

Don't think anyone is denying this anymore. Although, this is probably unrelated to Pokemon.

-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

Again, most of us already expected a similar list of Pokemon. Adds a little more competition if it's true, but I think the real battle has always been between Incineroar and Lycanroc. Here's to hoping he saw something special in the latter.

At the very least, this gave us something to talk about. Won't be devastated if the source is wrong, but it'd be fantastic if the "Dusk existed in 2015" part was true.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Interesting. One of my doubts towards Dusk Lycanroc was that I didn't believe his concept art, or any plans to push him in the show or through merchandise, was ready for Sakurai by the time he came looking for a Pokemon newcomer.

Concept art alone, I think things mostly lie with Decidueye and Incineroar, whose concept art are more detailed and show much more personality. If you take plans to push the Pokemon in the show and merchandise, than things favor Incineroar and Lycanroc, who have both been pushed in those fronts. Looking at what other notes that could've been there, then there's a lot that could be in any of the Pokemon's favor. At that point, you have:

An grass/ghost type archer owl with detailed concept art.

A fire/dark type wrestling tiger with detailed concept art and prominence in the show and merchandise.

A rock type geokinetic wolf with prominence in the show, games, and merchandise.

Things seem to favor Incineroar here, whereas my boy Decidueye's chances seem to be faltering. Only extra things Decidueye has is an incredibly popular pre-evolution and he's the featured Gen VII Pokemon in Pokken Tournament. Incineroar seems to be pushed on every front other than the games, where he's coincidentally incredibly relevant in the doubles metagame. I feel that the best shot for Lycanroc is if Sakurai took into account that he was to have a much more significant role to play in the games and show in comparison to the competition.

Also, off-topic, but redid those Lycanroc recolors using his official artwork. They look a lot better than the ones from before, though still the same recolors.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I was thinking dusk's design might be influenced by Sakurai's choice, to help his team easily turn the day form into it.

 

[Hydra of Chaos]

Interesting. One of my doubts towards Dusk Lycanroc was that I didn't believe his concept art, or any plans to push him in the show or through merchandise, was ready for Sakurai by the time he came looking for a Pokemon newcomer.

Concept art alone, I think things mostly lie with Decidueye and Incineroar, whose concept art are more detailed and show much more personality. If you take plans to push the Pokemon in the show and merchandise, than things favor Incineroar and Lycanroc, who have both been pushed in those fronts. Looking at what other notes that could've been there, then there's a lot that could be in any of the Pokemon's favor. At that point, you have:

An grass/ghost type archer owl with detailed concept art.

A fire/dark type wrestling tiger with detailed concept art and prominence in the show and merchandise.

A rock type geokinetic wolf with prominence in the show, games, and merchandise.

Things seem to favor Incineroar here, whereas my boy Decidueye's chances seem to be faltering. Only extra things Decidueye has is an incredibly popular pre-evolution and he's the featured Gen VII Pokemon in Pokken Tournament. Incineroar seems to be pushed on every front other than the games, where he's coincidentally incredibly relevant in the doubles metagame. I feel that the best shot for Lycanroc is if Sakurai took into account that he was to have a much more significant role to play in the games and show in comparison to the competition.

Also, off-topic, but redid those Lycanroc recolors using his official artwork. They look a lot better than the ones from before, though still the same recolors.

They look even better than bedore! good job

 

[Cosmic77]

Interesting. One of my doubts towards Dusk Lycanroc was that I didn't believe his concept art, or any plans to push him in the show or through merchandise, was ready for Sakurai by the time he came looking for a Pokemon newcomer.

Concept art alone, I think things mostly lie with Decidueye and Incineroar, whose concept art are more detailed and show much more personality. If you take plans to push the Pokemon in the show and merchandise, than things favor Incineroar and Lycanroc, who have both been pushed in those fronts. Looking at what other notes that could've been there, then there's a lot that could be in any of the Pokemon's favor. At that point, you have:

An grass/ghost type archer owl with detailed concept art.

A fire/dark type wrestling tiger with detailed concept art and prominence in the show and merchandise.

A rock type geokinetic wolf with prominence in the show, games, and merchandise.

Things seem to favor Incineroar here, whereas my boy Decidueye's chances seem to be faltering. Only extra things Decidueye has is an incredibly popular pre-evolution and he's the featured Gen VII Pokemon in Pokken Tournament. Incineroar seems to be pushed on every front other than the games, where he's coincidentally incredibly relevant in the doubles metagame. I feel that the best shot for Lycanroc is if Sakurai took into account that he was to have a much more significant role to play in the games and show in comparison to the competition.

Also, off-topic, but redid those Lycanroc recolors using his official artwork. They look a lot better than the ones from before, though still the same recolors.
View attachment 161578

Love the recolors. The Zoroark-inspired one is still my favorite.

Anyway, we need to remember to not base judgements on the concept art alone. Yes, they give him a better idea of a Pokemon would look and attack, but I doubt Sakurai would make a decision based off of a single sheet of paper and some notes. He'd likely want to know what was in store for that Pokemon. Would it be promoted? Would it be relevant in the anime? Does Game Freak think fans would love it?

Even if the Pokemon looked extremely unique at first glance, not being promoted in the future could be more than enough to turn Sakurai away from it. Sadly, I think Decidueye is the one who takes the biggest hit from this for obvious reasons. Lycanroc on the other hand has the exact opposite of this problem, whereas it looks boring on paper but has a lot of promotion and advertising to back it up. Incineroar has neither of these problems, but it doesn't seem like the type of oddball, creative choice Sakurai goes for. Granted, that's a personal opinion which doesn't effect Incineroar at all, but I'd like to think Sakurai would shoot for something more unique than him.

 

[Hydra of Chaos]

I would like to share some information I got from a friend I know personally, whose source has apparently been previously reliable on past Pokemon leaks (Such as the leaked B/W Pokemon) and is also a close buddy of my friend. The source seems to know stuff in regards to characters that Sakurai surveyed before putting together the Ultimate project plan. Here is what my friend's source had to say:

-The Pokemon concepts Sakurai looked into back in 2015 were Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu (deconfirmed), Lycanroc, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, and Necrozma.
-The notes for each Pokemon concept Sakurai had for Pokemon newcomer consideration are the exact same notes used for Pokemon Sun/Moon.
-Sakurai had notes for all three forms of Lycanroc (Including Dusk) at the time.
-The Smash Ballot will detail the roster and the answers lie there.
-The source does not know who got chosen as the Pokemon newcomer, he says he only knows the candidates and the above ballot bit. Nothing beyond that.

That is basically the gist of it. It is ok if you choose not to believe this, but I trust my friend enough with Pokemon information for me to confidently share these bits publicly here for this one rare occasion. This information certainly fuels Pokemon newcomer speculation to a new level.

I just noticed something.... Why no Primarena? I mean, it didn´t get less promotion then Decidueye and generally has quite some moveset-potential. Sakurai would surely at least look at it

 

[Garteam]

I just noticed something.... Why no Primarena? I mean, it didn´t get less promotion then Decidueye and generally has quite some moveset-potential. Sakurai would surely at least look at it

Perhaps with Squirtle and Greninja, Sakurai wanted to avoid another water type for the sake of thematic uniqueness? There's also a chance that Primarina's lack of legs made movement too awkward to seriously consider.

 

[Delzethin]

Interesting. One of my doubts towards Dusk Lycanroc was that I didn't believe his concept art, or any plans to push him in the show or through merchandise, was ready for Sakurai by the time he came looking for a Pokemon newcomer.

Concept art alone, I think things mostly lie with Decidueye and Incineroar, whose concept art are more detailed and show much more personality. If you take plans to push the Pokemon in the show and merchandise, than things favor Incineroar and Lycanroc, who have both been pushed in those fronts. Looking at what other notes that could've been there, then there's a lot that could be in any of the Pokemon's favor. At that point, you have:

An grass/ghost type archer owl with detailed concept art.

A fire/dark type wrestling tiger with detailed concept art and prominence in the show and merchandise.

A rock type geokinetic wolf with prominence in the show, games, and merchandise.

Things seem to favor Incineroar here, whereas my boy Decidueye's chances seem to be faltering. Only extra things Decidueye has is an incredibly popular pre-evolution and he's the featured Gen VII Pokemon in Pokken Tournament. Incineroar seems to be pushed on every front other than the games, where he's coincidentally incredibly relevant in the doubles metagame. I feel that the best shot for Lycanroc is if Sakurai took into account that he was to have a much more significant role to play in the games and show in comparison to the competition.

Also, off-topic, but redid those Lycanroc recolors using his official artwork. They look a lot better than the ones from before, though still the same recolors.
View attachment 161578

Love the recolors. The Zoroark-inspired one is still my favorite.

Anyway, we need to remember to not base judgements on the concept art alone. Yes, they give him a better idea of a Pokemon would look and attack, but I doubt Sakurai would make a decision based off of a single sheet of paper and some notes. He'd likely want to know what was in store for that Pokemon. Would it be promoted? Would it be relevant in the anime? Does Game Freak think fans would love it?

Even if the Pokemon looked extremely unique at first glance, not being promoted in the future could be more than enough to turn Sakurai away from it. Sadly, I think Decidueye is the one who takes the biggest hit from this for obvious reasons. Lycanroc on the other hand has the exact opposite of this problem, whereas it looks boring on paper but has a lot of promotion and advertising to back it up. Incineroar has neither of these problems, but it doesn't seem like the type of oddball, creative choice Sakurai goes for. Granted, that's a personal opinion which doesn't effect Incineroar at all, but I'd like to think Sakurai would shoot for something more unique than him.

So as it seems, things are kind of weird. Decidueye's been completely ditched by speculators despite still having some merits because of a rumor against it and because it can't "complete the starter trio" anymore--not surprising, since a lot of them thought the latter was all that mattered. Incineroar has the bandwagon now because of a rumor pointing toward it, yet the "promotion" it's gotten has been blown out of proportion by speculators trying to explain why it must be the one who got in. Seriously, how does one sketch in the concept art, two episodes in the anime so far, and a secondary role in a movie suddenly count as unquestionable proof now when there're so many unanswered questions? And not even a month ago, none of it was even considered important enough to matter! To say no less of other potential issues--would being a traditional grappler even be able to carry the concept enough when everything else about it has been done before by fighters already on the roster? Especially when Sakurai hasn't shoehorned in other archetypes in the past who weren't unique otherwise.

And then you got us...and we're about as overlooked as ever. On par with the starters in prominence at this point, promoted the most in the anime, and with the potential to be arguably more unique of a newcomer than either of the other two. And yet, outside of here, that hardly gets acknowledged.

Keep that in mind if you get into any debates elsewhere. It seems like many speculators aren't keeping their options open anymore...they've already made up their minds, and are only interested in facts that'd validate what they already believe. Expect to run into some double standards going forward, frustrating as it is.

Also, nice recolors! Though wouldn't it be better if you kept the eyes green on every palette? It's the kind of signature detail the Smash team would keep consistent.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So as it seems, things are kind of weird. Decidueye's been completely ditched by speculators despite still having some merits because of a rumor against it and because it can't "complete the starter trio" anymore--not surprising, since a lot of them thought the latter was all that mattered. Incineroar has the bandwagon now because of a rumor pointing toward it, yet the "promotion" it's gotten has been blown out of proportion by speculators trying to explain why it must be the one who got in. Seriously, how does one sketch in the concept art, two episodes in the anime so far, and a secondary role in a movie suddenly count as unquestionable proof now when there're so many unanswered questions? And not even a month ago, none of it was even considered important enough to matter! To say no less of other potential issues--would being a traditional grappler even be able to carry the concept enough when everything else about it has been done before by fighters already on the roster? Especially when Sakurai hasn't shoehorned in other archetypes in the past who weren't unique otherwise.

And then you got us...and we're about as overlooked as ever. On par with the starters in prominence at this point, promoted the most in the anime, and with the potential to be arguably more unique of a newcomer than either of the other two. And yet, outside of here, that hardly gets acknowledged.

Keep that in mind if you get into any debates elsewhere. It seems like many speculators aren't keeping their options open anymore...they've already made up their minds, and are only interested in facts that'd validate what they already believe. Expect to run into some double standards going forward, frustrating as it is.

Also, nice recolors! Though wouldn't it be better if you kept the eyes green on every palette? It's the kind of signature detail the Smash team would keep consistent.

I feel your pain. I primarily support Decidueye as the Gen VII Pokemon newcomer, and it's frustrating to see the support base scatter because of a rumor by a loosely credible source. Then Incineroar gets picked up as the go-to candidate, when beforehand he was often looked down upon as a black sheep. Though I always thought Incineroar wasn't to be underestimated. Now Lycanroc seems to be underestimated, even though he has a lot going for him. It's certainly a strange speculation season when it comes to Pokemon. Especially when you take into account the rumors of Gardevoir and Gothitelle, or that Sceptile may still have a slim shot thanks to the Ballot.

As for the recolors, thank-you! I decided to change the eye color as I felt it kept the recolors closer to their origins. If anything, the key detail they'd keep would be the eye changing colors from whatever to glowing red, which is why I kept the sclera white. As long as the red rage eyes glow noticeably enough, than the normal eye colors changing shouldn't hold much of an impact.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't really even see the fully-evolved starters as the "faces" (inb4 of course not incineroar's a heel) of Gen VII. The Pokemon I do see as its faces are all confirmed to be Poke Ball mons, except for some UBs, Tapu Koko, and Lycanroc.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't really even see the fully-evolved starters as the "faces" (inb4 of course not incineroar's a heel) of Gen VII. The Pokemon I do see as its faces are all confirmed to be Poke Ball mons, except for some UBs, Tapu Koko, and Lycanroc.

The unevolved starters and the boxart Legendaries are probably the closest thing we have to "faces of Gen VII". However, every so often, we get a breakout star Pokemon who becomes an unintended success. Lucario is a perfect example of this, as he went from being a popular Gen IV Pokemon to one of the most advertised Pokemon of all time.

I'm kinda hoping the same thing happens with Lycanroc, and getting in Smash would boost those chances significantly. When Lucario was first added back in Brawl, he didn't make sense to a lot of people. He was popular at the time, sure, but because he was so new, many considered him to be a random addition that would stick out more and more with each Smash game. Needless to say, that opinion is practically nonexistent now.

 

[Delzethin]

I'm kinda hoping the same thing happens with Lycanroc, and getting in Smash would boost those chances significantly. When Lucario was first added back in Brawl, he didn't make sense to a lot of people. He was popular at the time, sure, but because he was so new, many considered him to be a random addition that would stick out more and more with each Smash game. Needless to say, that opinion is practically nonexistent now.

For someone you've been pulling for, someone who's spent so much time being scoffed at, dismissed, rarely given a fair look before being judged and deemed innately unworthy, to reach the greatest of stages, forever enshrined as an icon whose depths will be seen and acknowledged...

It's a dream for so many characters, and a reason why so many fans become so emotionally invested. All we can do is hope that ours gets that chance.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Will tomorrow's direct finally be the day the Pokemon newcomer gets revealed?

This suffering needs to end.

 

[AlphaSSB]

A Gen VII Pokemon newcomer reveal would be nice just to get it out of the way.

If we do end up seeing a Gen VII newcomer, I'm personally rooting for Decidueye, though I'd be more than happy with Lycanroc. Incineroar I'll be disappointed with at first, but can see myself warming up to him depending on how he's implemented. I made recolors for all three last week, and if one of them gets revealed, I plan on making a whole new batch for them. Taking suggestions, ha.

Plus, although it may not matter, Junichi Masuda is supposed to be sharing news on Sunday. And the Pokemon Championships was about a week and a half ago. Pokemon just seems to be in the air now.

 

[MasteRMerF]

Will tomorrow's direct finally be the day the Pokemon newcomer gets revealed?

This suffering needs to end.

This is interesting. I'm not sure how long it's been around but I just read a direct "leak" that said we would be having one tomorrow. It said we would get a trailer for Incineroar (which actually sounded like a neat trailer). However, the direct tomorrow is 35 minutes while the leak said it'll be 27 minutes soooo...
PLEASE LET OUR STONE PUP(s) COME THROUGH

 

[MasteRMerF]

A Gen VII Pokemon newcomer reveal would be nice just to get it out of the way.

If we do end up seeing a Gen VII newcomer, I'm personally rooting for Decidueye, though I'd be more than happy with Lycanroc. Incineroar I'll be disappointed with at first, but can see myself warming up to him depending on how he's implemented. I made recolors for all three last week, and if one of them gets revealed, I plan on making a whole new batch for them. Taking suggestions, ha.

Plus, although it may not matter, Junichi Masuda is supposed to be sharing news on Sunday. And the Pokemon Championships was about a week and a half ago. Pokemon just seems to be in the air now.

Your ROOTing for Decidueye (don't kick me out yet) But I feel the exact same way towards Incineroar. I've warmed up immensely to the idea and possibility of having him in Smash, but I'm still HOUNDing for Lycanroc...I'm sorry, I'll leave now...

 

[Cosmic77]

Can't shake this feeling that we'll finally get our answer tomorrow. I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't a little anxious.

Regardless of what gets revealed, I'll continue to support Lycanroc. Not sure if his chances would be very strong afterwards, but I'm not about to give up on a character I've been so faithful to.

 

[Garteam]

I have a feeling tomorrow will be our judgement day. A Pokemon newcomer seems like it would be a good newcomer for a general direct, as a lot of casual fans who are otherwise uninterested in Smash Bros will be able to recognize who they are.

No matter what (if anything) happens tomorrow, it's an honour to be part of this thread.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Just over 24 hours until the direct... keep your eyes open for any sort of hints!