Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Delzethin

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So in other news, dataminers found some interesting stuff tucked away in the files for Pokémon Home:


While most movepool data was rendered unreadable, we do have the TM/TR lists for everyone now, including mons that weren't obtainable in the base game and may not even be obtainable in the DLC (future proofing, I suppose). Considering the TR list includes several moves that weren't so easily available prior, it opens up possibilities for previously underpowered lines who might gain a notable move or two.

Or in the case of all three Lycanroc forms, three. Because unless the data changes between now and June, they're getting access to Close Combat, Play Rough, and Psychic Fangs.

Remember how one of their big downsides competitively was a narrow offensive movepool that made them predictable and easy to check? Not anymore!
 

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So in other news, dataminers found some interesting stuff tucked away in the files for Pokémon Home:


While most movepool data was rendered unreadable, we do have the TM/TR lists for everyone now, including mons that weren't obtainable in the base game and may not even be obtainable in the DLC (future proofing, I suppose). Considering the TR list includes several moves that weren't so easily available prior, it opens up possibilities for previously underpowered lines who might gain a notable move or two.

Or in the case of all three Lycanroc forms, three. Because unless the data changes between now and June, they're getting access to Close Combat, Play Rough, and Psychic Fangs.

Remember how one of their big downsides competitively was a narrow offensive movepool that made them predictable and easy to check? Not anymore!
Oh wow, that's actually quite the buff, getting Play Rough and Psychic Fangs are massive wins given how fighting types were Lycanroc's biggest hurdle from last time. This works particularly well for Dusk, as all three moves get a much needed boost from Tough Claws.

Also, this is mildly off-topic, but what's everyone thoughts on Toxtricity as a potential fighter? Having a fighter who utilizes poison, rhythm attacks as a musician, and even electricity in the package of a British punk rocker sounds like a win to me.
 

Cosmic77

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Also, this is mildly off-topic, but what's everyone thoughts on Toxtricity as a potential fighter? Having a fighter who utilizes poison, rhythm attacks as a musician, and even electricity in the package of a British punk rocker sounds like a win to me.
I like its design, and a poison type would be cool. I'm also sure most people would be love Toxtricity in Smash.

Still, I don't feel like it's a Pokemon who would get in Smash. The past three new Pokemon have all had both promotion from Game Freak and some type of fighter design. As of now, I haven't really seen anything substantial coming from Game Freak in terms of promotional material. The release of its Gigantamax form has been fairly quiet, the anime isn't giving us any hints as to how much it'll be pushed, and I haven't seen much merchandise (which is somewhat normal for Pokemon revealed after release) aside from TCG.

Personally, I think it might work better as a replacement for Barbara the Bat.
 

Staarih

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Also, this is mildly off-topic, but what's everyone thoughts on Toxtricity as a potential fighter? Having a fighter who utilizes poison, rhythm attacks as a musician, and even electricity in the package of a British punk rocker sounds like a win to me.
It would definitely have a unique concept, which is always okay in my book. The design is also spot on, as is the case with many Gen 8 Pokémon. It's among the more popular Pokémon of Galar, and getting the Toxel egg in Sw/Sh and Toxtricity's separate Gigantamax form kinda give me special Pokémon vibes (reminds me of getting a Riolu egg etc), but maybe that's just me. I may have other Pokémon-choices for Smash in mind before Toxtricity, but I'd gladly take it as well.
At this point though it's still super early to say which Pokémon are actually going to be pushed and promoted, apart from the starters of course.
 

Kremling Man

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I definitely want Toxtricity in and it’s one of the Characters I’m pulling for I think it’d bring a fun move set with it’s Elrctric/Poison typing, and would present a fun character with that punk-rock vibe it’s got.
 

Delzethin

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Oh wow, that's actually quite the buff, getting Play Rough and Psychic Fangs are massive wins given how fighting types were Lycanroc's biggest hurdle from last time. This works particularly well for Dusk, as all three moves get a much needed boost from Tough Claws.
Yeah, being able to circumvent previous checks (and have better options for certain opponents, like CC being stronger and more reliable against Steel types than Drill Run) is a big step forward in viability, especially with Dusk being able to proc Tough Claws with all of them. The other main weakness (difficulty setting up to sweep without help from a teammate) is still present, but this newfound coverage may actually make it matter less. There'll be the option to run four attack Choice sets that don't require SD for setup, which opens up a lot of mixup potential since opponents would have to figure out/guess whether the Lycanroc they're facing is running a sweeper or wallbreaker set. "Do I switch out for a better matchup and risk letting them set up, or do I try to take them down now and risk losing my tank to a Band-boosted Close Combat?"

Also, this is mildly off-topic, but what's everyone thoughts on Toxtricity as a potential fighter? Having a fighter who utilizes poison, rhythm attacks as a musician, and even electricity in the package of a British punk rocker sounds like a win to me.
I like its design, and a poison type would be cool. I'm also sure most people would be love Toxtricity in Smash.

Still, I don't feel like it's a Pokemon who would get in Smash. The past three new Pokemon have all had both promotion from Game Freak and some type of fighter design. As of now, I haven't really seen anything substantial coming from Game Freak in terms of promotional material. The release of its Gigantamax form has been fairly quiet, the anime isn't giving us any hints as to how much it'll be pushed, and I haven't seen much merchandise (which is somewhat normal for Pokemon revealed after release) aside from TCG.
That's where I stand at the moment, more or less. Toxtricity has the moveset potential and personality to work as a compelling newcomer, but so do several other mons this generation, and not much has happened yet to really make it stand out. Even its G-Max form becoming available wasn't given any special treatment; it was just one of many updates.

Hasn't done anything notable in the anime yet, either, though that might just be the unusual structure this time around. We're actually a week away from the point where Ash got his Rockruff in the Alola anime, yet things have been pretty quiet regarding Gen 8 mons aside from Go getting a Scorbunny. Then again, Decidueye was a finalist for Ultimate's base game despite a very limited role in the Alola anime, so maybe the anime is less of a bellwether than we've been led to believe.
 
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RandomAce

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So in other news, dataminers found some interesting stuff tucked away in the files for Pokémon Home:


While most movepool data was rendered unreadable, we do have the TM/TR lists for everyone now, including mons that weren't obtainable in the base game and may not even be obtainable in the DLC (future proofing, I suppose). Considering the TR list includes several moves that weren't so easily available prior, it opens up possibilities for previously underpowered lines who might gain a notable move or two.

Or in the case of all three Lycanroc forms, three. Because unless the data changes between now and June, they're getting access to Close Combat, Play Rough, and Psychic Fangs.

Remember how one of their big downsides competitively was a narrow offensive movepool that made them predictable and easy to check? Not anymore!
Lycanroc got buffs...
2F6F0429-4FA0-4BEA-8392-EF028AE6D5D7.jpeg

I’m surprised but I’m happy that they gave Lycanroc something to make it more viable. This makes me excited for other potential buffs GameFreak may add as well, but even if they don’t it’s still a big win.

Oh wow, that's actually quite the buff, getting Play Rough and Psychic Fangs are massive wins given how fighting types were Lycanroc's biggest hurdle from last time. This works particularly well for Dusk, as all three moves get a much needed boost from Tough Claws.

Also, this is mildly off-topic, but what's everyone thoughts on Toxtricity as a potential fighter? Having a fighter who utilizes poison, rhythm attacks as a musician, and even electricity in the package of a British punk rocker sounds like a win to me.
Toxtricity was definitely the Pokémon that stood out to me from Gen 8, it’s Amped form is especially awesome.

To be fair, I’m not really sure if I should support Toxtricity or Zacian more. Zacian fills a similar niche of a true wolf fighter similar to Lycanroc, but Toxtricity has that spunk and personality not many other fighters have. As for chances, I’m not really sure how likely Toxtricity is considering that it’s G-Max form wasn’t released in the way people expected being sort of a big deal, but we’re still early into SwSh’s life cycle so anything can happen.
 

RandomAce

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So, Source Gaming is doing their third Mega Poll this time focused on the upcoming Fighter Pass 2, the poll has many questions detailing people’s opinions on how the pass should be handled with a question that let you state up to 6 characters you want to be added.


If you haven’t already, how bout show some support for Lycanroc in the polls, and share it to friends you know who might be Lycanroc fans. I know it may seem null to do so right now, but it’d be nice if we let our voices heard.
 
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Guynamednelson

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So, Source Gaming is doing their third Mega Poll this time focused on the upcoming Fighter Pass 2, the poll has many questions detailing people’s opinions on how the pass should be handled with a question that let you state up to 6 characters you want to be added.


If you haven’t already, how bout show some support for Lycanroc in the polls, and share it to friends you know who might be Lycanroc fans. I know it may seem null to do so right now, but it’d be nice if we let our voices heard.
Unfortunately I did not vote for Lycanroc on that poll. However I did vote for the earthbender Isaac and the quadrupedal mon Eevee (because it's a more likely antithesis to you-know-who, I suppose), and I answered what I disliked about Ultimate by stating that Incineroar was chosen as the Gen 7 rep.
 
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Delzethin

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There really hasn't been a whole lot to talk about, has there? Side effect of us going unusually long without a major Direct, I suppose.

So, Source Gaming is doing their third Mega Poll this time focused on the upcoming Fighter Pass 2, the poll has many questions detailing people’s opinions on how the pass should be handled with a question that let you state up to 6 characters you want to be added.


If you haven’t already, how bout show some support for Lycanroc in the polls, and share it to friends you know who might be Lycanroc fans. I know it may seem null to do so right now, but it’d be nice if we let our voices heard.
Haven't had the chance to participate yet, but hopefully we can at least get acknowledged somehow. Though the odds of us getting lost in the crowd are...very high. These polls tend to be snapshots of whatever is going on at the time they're run, which can tell us some interesting stuff, just not necessarily what one would expect.
 
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LukeRNG

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Unfortunately I did not vote for Lycanroc on that poll. However I did vote for the earthbender Isaac and the quadrupedal mon Eevee (because it's a more likely antithesis to you-know-who, I suppose), and I answered what I disliked about Ultimate by stating that Incineroar was chosen as the Gen 7 rep.
How likely is it that pokemon in pokeballs would be promoted? Would it be the same probability as assist trophies?

Anyways, what is your least favorite character to play as from the whole roster? I'm either Ganondorf or the Belmonts.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Anyways, what is your least favorite character to play as from the whole roster? I'm either Ganondorf or the Belmonts.
Byleth, not because more FE or any disappointment from them being CP5, they just feel too clunky to me, and I don't like how Ryu was changed in this game.

Regarding the promotion of Poke Balls: On one hand, fans of certain ATs were definitely louder than those of any Poke Ball. On the other, I think Nintendo would think there are better ways of catering to Eevee's popularity in Smash than an interchangeable Poke Ball. Just like I can see Isaac's AT being swapped with Garet, I can see Eevee's PB being swapped with Rockruff.
 
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Delzethin

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We should be getting an official reveal of the new mythic later today, if I remember right. Should be interesting to see what they have planned for our mystery 'mon.

We'll also probably see a lot of speculators flock to it as a "promotional" pick regardless of its actual typing or moveset potential, but that's neither here nor there...

How likely is it that pokemon in pokeballs would be promoted? Would it be the same probability as assist trophies?

Anyways, what is your least favorite character to play as from the whole roster? I'm either Ganondorf or the Belmonts.
In order:

- Probably. They're mid-match summons in the same way, so I imagine the same restrictions apply, whatever those restrictions are.

- I can't play the shotos or Terry for the life of me. The clunky movement, the command inputs, it feels like a whole other language in a way no other fighter does. Greninja and Falco also trip me up, with their high jumps and the latter's emphasis on vertical movement.
 

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https://pokemonday.pokemon.co.jp/jp/result/

The Pokemon Company had a favourite Pokemon poll to celebrate Pokemon Day in Japan. Lycanroc came 24th, being the 4th highest Alola 'mon after Mimikyu, Rowlet, and Decidueye. They also beat heavy hitters like Flygon, Hydragon, Sceptile, and Blaziken. They're also the second highest rock type after Tyranitar.

It's good to see we're still somewhat popular, even after being a few months into Gen 8.
 
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https://pokemonday.pokemon.co.jp/jp/result/

The Pokemon Company had a favourite Pokemon poll to celebrate Pokemon Day in Japan. Lycanroc came 24th, being the 4th highest Alola 'mon after Mimikyu, Rowlet, and Decidueye. They also beat heavy hitters like Flygon, Hydragon, Sceptile, and Blaziken. They're also the second highest rock type after Tyranitar.

It's good to see we're still somewhat popular, even after being a few months into Gen 8.
24 out of 889 potential others is pretty good, honestly! Didn't expect some of the ones that made it to top 30, but it's a nice list I'd say! A shame my favorite didn't pop up in it, but popularity doesn't invalidate enjoyment!
 
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And?

What difference does that make? Regardless of how many votes Decidueye has over Lycanroc it doesn’t deny the fact that both are highly popular pokemon.
Agreed. Plus, it's not really nice to use a poll to take jabs at another Pokemon/fans of another Pokemon, you know? The takeaway should be 'these Pokemon did well and are well-liked' and not 'this Pokemon is better than this one'.
 

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Agreed. Plus, it's not really nice to use a poll to take jabs at another Pokemon/fans of another Pokemon, you know? The takeaway should be 'these Pokemon did well and are well-liked' and not 'this Pokemon is better than this one'.
I'd continue going "Deal with it Incineroar fans, the actual mascots won" but I am a Pichu apologist and I shouldn't dab on Incineroar fans when Pichu isn't top 10 in Johto.
 
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I'd continue going "Deal with it Incineroar fans, the actual mascots won" but I am a Pichu apologist and I shouldn't dab on Incineroar fans when Pichu isn't top 10 in Johto.
I mean, to be fair I'm not too disappointed Incineroar didn't make it to top 30. 6th best in Alola is still pretty impressive! I'd say he, Decidueye and Lycanroc all did pretty well when you factor in there's 890 Pokemon total (not counting the ones coming up in the expansions). Then again I really like all three so seeing any of them do well is good!
 

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I'm actualy fascinaded by seeing how alola pokemon stand vs how they did back in the japan poll from a few years ago.
You can tell some pokemon were bigger in Japan than other regions. But Rowlet & Mimikyu ended up being very popular overall.
 

Lionel_B

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I find it impressive for Decidueye, because over time, he was categorized as "Edgy who tries to copy Greninja", he was not chosen for Smash and the worst is the anime because he seemed to do everything to ridicule the Pokémon (seriously, its moment of glory is when it beats a Zubat).

So to see him in the top 30 and 3rd in Alola's top 10 behind Rowlet and Mimikyu is... Consolation.

Yes, there is Pokkén, but everyone does not care about this game...
 

Kremling Man

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I love Decidueye it’s my favourite Pokémon. But Lycanroc especially (Dusk form) is one of my favourites too. What does it matter if Decidueye did better then Lycanroc?

People like both and are fans of them they have support.

Which is great I’m happy for both!
 

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It was a very good showing overall. I'd hoped for Lycanroc to place pretty highly within Alola, but to not only finish 4th in the region, but 24th overall? That's damn impressive! Especially once you realize that placement was barely behind Zoroark, and above mainstays like Blaziken, Sceptile, and Flygon!

By the way, does anyone have an image or something detailing all the Top 30 rankings from each region? I have a few more observations I think I've picked up on, but I want to make sure I'm reading/remembering things correctly.
 

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By the way, does anyone have an image or something detailing all the Top 30 rankings from each region? I have a few more observations I think I've picked up on, but I want to make sure I'm reading/remembering things correctly.
https://pokemonday.pokemon.co.jp/jp/result/
Scroll down to the bottom. There are eight boxes, one for each gen. Click on them.
 
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It was a very good showing overall. I'd hoped for Lycanroc to place pretty highly within Alola, but to not only finish 4th in the region, but 24th overall? That's damn impressive! Especially once you realize that placement was barely behind Zoroark, and above mainstays like Blaziken, Sceptile, and Flygon!

By the way, does anyone have an image or something detailing all the Top 30 rankings from each region? I have a few more observations I think I've picked up on, but I want to make sure I'm reading/remembering things correctly.
Actually, i happen to have made some images per generation made. Or are you fine looking at the website?
 

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I'm very shocked by Dragapult. Not only it being the most popular galar pokemon, but also being so close to the top 10 (and of course after i finally set on it being my fav galar pokemon).

And Silvally is at a better spot than I expected. Nice to see i'm not alone in loving this mon.
 
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Kremling Man

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The English episodes showing the battle between Ash and Kukui are awesome it’s mentor vs. Student and Ash’s Torracat vs. Kukui’s Incineroar has been fun. Both are getting KO’s for their Pokémon really enjoying it so far.
 

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Much appreciated. All I needed was who ranked where, not individual votes, so this worked fine for the analysis I wanted to do.

And as I suspected, one of the big factors in who ranked high was competitive strength--the more powerful they are ingame or against other players, the more attached people became. It says something that 7 out of 8 first place finishers from each region have been mainstays in OU, Ubers, and/or VGC recently. This effect seems to be more pronounced in newer generations than older ones (nostalgia is a bigger factor the further back you go), and Galar is a prime example with its Top 10: Dragapault, Corviknight, and Cinderace have firmly anchored themselves into OU, Toxtricity and Inteleon see use on OU teams despite being UU, and Zacian may be the single strongest mon in the entire metagame right now!

Lycanroc was not a force competitively, was overshadowed by several other mons within its generation tier-wise, yet still managed to outpace almost all of them. That's damn impressive.

'Course there're also a handful of exceptions. Some high rankers are there because they're cute, like Snom, Rowlet, and Piplup. A few scored high because a lot of fans wish they were stronger, like Flygon and Luxray--perhaps that was a factor in Lycanroc placing so high up.

The poll ended up reflecting a lot of older fans more than younger ones because of how it was run--not as many grade schoolers would understand how to go through all the steps that had to be done. Makes me wonder how different the results would be if there had been a way to get their input.
 
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Delzethin

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Another long stretch of quiet. There has to be a Direct at some point, right?

In the meantime, have any of you seen anything Lycanroc-related of note lately? Interesting fanart or the like? Something to keep the conversation going until we actually have more to talk about.
 

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Hey, so...things are pretty scary out there right now, whether you're in the danger zone for the virus or if your local city/town/etc. is closing things down as a precautionary measure.

Be safe, alright? Don't panic, but do be wary, because while most of us wouldn't be in much danger if we got infected, we all know others who would, whether elderly relatives or friends with weakened immune systems.

Hopefully we do get some more news soon. If anything, to give us something to help with the somber mood.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Hey, so...things are pretty scary out there right now, whether you're in the danger zone for the virus or if your local city/town/etc. is closing things down as a precautionary measure.

Be safe, alright? Don't panic, but do be wary, because while most of us wouldn't be in much danger if we got infected, we all know others who would, whether elderly relatives of friends with weakened immune systems.

Hopefully we do get some more news soon. If anything, to give us something to help with the somber mood.
I'm already a clean freak who stays at his house most of the time. I was made for this.
 

RandomAce

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Hey, so...things are pretty scary out there right now, whether you're in the danger zone for the virus or if your local city/town/etc. is closing things down as a precautionary measure.

Be safe, alright? Don't panic, but do be wary, because while most of us wouldn't be in much danger if we got infected, we all know others who would, whether elderly relatives or friends with weakened immune systems.

Hopefully we do get some more news soon. If anything, to give us something to help with the somber mood.
Unfortunate that the virus has impacted the gaming landscape, especially for many developers and companies behind the scenes, and Smash’s Development has been impacted as well.

With the load of free time I have now, I might do a rewrite of my Lycanroc move set, as well for some other characters, might as well do something. :p
 
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