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Dair discussion

Spike6sic6

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
69
Location
Montréal, QC
Must of you probably know how Zamus' Dair can suck at times. I've learned the hard way to not rely on it too much. But I found out a few good uses for it.

First, I think it's pretty much more of a "convenience" move then anything else. I personnaly like to use it to get a faster landing. Don't get me wrong, it has a lot of lag on landing, but it can come in pretty useful when you can use it to reach the platform before your opponent. Example; You've sent your opponent flying with a Fair/Bair and want to land before your opponent. I've noticed that a lot of times and from a certain height, you can reach the floor much faster then FFing, making it easier to follow up(with an edgeguard, for example).

Another use that's probably known is to use it to cancel momentum when sent flying upwards. This is widely known, but still I like to use it a lot.

It can also be useful when you wanna follow up with a quick move. Like if you get sent flying and the opponent is dashing towards you, it's often easy to hit with and will usually send the opponent far enough for you to get back on your feets and ready to attack. SHing it on a dashing opponent is also pretty easy to use. Of course you should still not abuse it, because it can become quite predictable.

Finally, a known way to use it, but still worth mentionning; Kamikaze in team matches. I've often gimped my opponent this way, and it comes out fast enough to be nearly impossible to dodge, unless expected. Most people will also expect you to be going for a edgehog or Bair, so it can have a good surprise effect. I haven't yet tried it in a single match, so I don't know who gets killed first, but in team it end up a fight very quickly, in an unexpected way. It's kind of a "No, you are not coming back. The match is over cause I said so." move. Most suicide moves use some kind of "grabs", so I guess her Dair is a pretty unique suicide move.

I'd say the most useful way to use it is the first thing I mentionned. It's very situationnal, but it came very handy to me quite a few times. Feel free to add comments or other ways to use her Dair. It is a move to avoid as much as possible, but still, I think it's uses are often neglected.
 

Bakithi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
161
Location
ATL
Its not a great discussion when you summed everything about the move up in 1 post. A little too smart, are we? ">_>

Meh, I don't use it that much. Just when I don't feel like FF'ing... sometimes I'll SH it (Haha, SH it...) for the reasons stated before, but most of the time, I just do the momentum cancel for that oh-so-delicious spike.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
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Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
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This... is not a discussion. This is you summarizing a move and stating things we all know are painfully obvious.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
The only use Dair has is when you're high enough to auto-cancel it, and your opponent is not expecting it. Otherwise, it's a waste of time IMO.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
2,338
Location
New York
Finally, a known way to use it, but still worth mentionning; Kamikaze in team matches. I've often gimped my opponent this way, and it comes out fast enough to be nearly impossible to dodge, unless expected. Most people will also expect you to be going for a edgehog or Bair, so it can have a good surprise effect. I haven't yet tried it in a single match, so I don't know who gets killed first, but in team it end up a fight very quickly, in an unexpected way. It's kind of a "No, you are not coming back. The match is over cause I said so." move. Most suicide moves use some kind of "grabs", so I guess her Dair is a pretty unique suicide move.
I've done this in a singles match lol, it's reallyyy fun and really unexpected. Hard to pull off though, it's kind of like a Kirbycide. (I called it a Zamuside) I do it only when I'm 2 stocks up though, or 1 stock up and the opponent is at a high percent.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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Messages
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Location
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I've done this in a singles match lol, it's reallyyy fun and really unexpected. Hard to pull off though, it's kind of like a Kirbycide. (I called it a Zamuside) I do it only when I'm 2 stocks up though, or 1 stock up and the opponent is at a high percent.
Suddenly the opponent air-dodges, and you lose a stock you didn't have to.
 

Spike6sic6

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
69
Location
Montréal, QC
Its not a great discussion when you summed everything about the move up in 1 post. A little too smart, are we? ">_>
Sorry if I'm being obvious, I just thought it might be helpful to at least one person out there you know. I don't see it discussed a lot so I figured it might be useful to someone... There's no point being rude.

This... is not a discussion. This is you summarizing a move and stating things we all know are painfully obvious.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my post is much more useful then yours. I thought people would actually reply and add their own uses, etc, rather then reply just to say "Oh I'm smart I know all that". There's no point being harsh, it's not like it makes the topic more valuable, you know.

I thought that's what these boards were for anyways, and I was just expecting people to I don't know, add some strategies or whatever. Yeah again sorry if this is stupid or anything, I was just trying to help... Guess next time I'll just keep it to myself.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
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Messages
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Rather than keep to yourself, you could just name the thread differently.

"Some things about Dair. Feel free to add your thoughts."
 

Spike6sic6

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
69
Location
Montréal, QC
Rather than keep to yourself, you could just name the thread differently.

"Some things about Dair. Feel free to add your thoughts."
Yeah ok, thanks for the advice. I called it the way it is cause I was expecting people to add their thoughts, strategies and such about Dair.

I started with the intention to talk about the first thing I said in my post cause it's something I have never seen discussed before. I do know all the rest is obvious, but since I was talking bout Dair I thought I'd add what I know about it.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
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If you don't think we haven't had various discussions about it already, search. And don't say "I'm too lazy" or "there's too many results," because then you don't deserve to be on here in the first place.
 

noradseven

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
1,558
Location
North Carolina
dair rocks it out prioritizes stuff like mad, so if you KNOW someone is going to do X move through this sucker out, plus it totally gimps MK's up B, haha.

d-air rocks and kicks *** in certain situations, but sucks in others, nuff said.
 

Zaffy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
158
Location
Ireland
I have managed to kamakazie a few people with down air nicely, it didn't expect it to work but it spiked them and i just laughed :D
 

FadedImage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
487
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SoCal
The only use Dair has is when you're high enough to auto-cancel it, and your opponent is not expecting it. Otherwise, it's a waste of time IMO.
this.

Getting to the ground quick with no landing lag, it's pretty much dair's only purpose.
 

noradseven

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
1,558
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North Carolina
this.

Getting to the ground quick with no landing lag, it's pretty much dair's only purpose.
That's its main purpose in my opinion, but it has a few other purposes as well, but yeah you only do it if you know its safe, or if you are 100% sure it will connect.
 

Mr.Ious

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
43
Location
London
IMO, it's best use is to follow an aerial up+B spike (when you can't otherwise uair/bair) - it's a guaranteed hit in some cases.
 

TheRockSays

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
295
Location
Bronx,NY
This move should only be used in certain occassions when your not gonna have landing lagg from being so up high and once per set when your opponent is waiting for you.
 

kuenzel

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
607
Location
St Catherines, Ontario
this.

Getting to the ground quick with no landing lag, it's pretty much dair's only purpose.
When DOES it auto cancel? I know just from being out long enough it stops on its own... but from what I tested that is only viable on New Pork City or **** like that. Is there some hidden auto cancel frame I don't know about?
 

RyokoYaksa

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Oct 25, 2001
Messages
5,056
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Philadelphia, USA
For it to auto-cancel, you have to get knocked upwards and usually throw in your double jump to boot. One can go aim it off stage this way for a quick ledge grab if they wanted. The stall then fall mechanic is always useful, but like any counter you really have to be spot on with calling the opponent's action for it to be a safe option.

It's also a silly, humiliating move to spike people sitting at the ledge with.
 
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For it to auto-cancel, you have to get knocked upwards and usually throw in your double jump to boot. One can go aim it off stage this way for a quick ledge grab if they wanted. The stall then fall mechanic is always useful, but like any counter you really have to be spot on with calling the opponent's action for it to be a safe option.

It's also a silly, humiliating move to spike people sitting at the ledge with.
Dair is also a great for a suicide kill, as it pulls your opponent down with you if you hit them right. ;)
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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Messages
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When DOES it auto cancel? I know just from being out long enough it stops on its own... but from what I tested that is only viable on New Pork City or **** like that. Is there some hidden auto cancel frame I don't know about?
It auto-cancels on most levels when you're a little higher than the start of the bubble.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
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Messages
7,245
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NC
To be accurate, dair doesn't autocancel ever. There are a few frames when there is no landing hitbox, which reduces the landing lag, but not all the way to the 2 frames of an auto cancel. IIRC it's something more like 5.
 
Joined
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To be accurate, dair doesn't autocancel ever. There are a few frames when there is no landing hitbox, which reduces the landing lag, but not all the way to the 2 frames of an auto cancel. IIRC it's something more like 5.
Not to be argumentative, but I'm fairly certain it does autocancel. If you are knocked high above the stage, near to the Blast Zone and use Dair, you can use your Up+B tether recovery to get back onto the stage after falling quite a ways (i.e., once it autocancels). But there's no way to get the effect yourself; someone has to knock you up there. :)

Edit: I just wanted to say that after reading again what you had to say, autocancel might be a term I'm not used to hearing. The move eventually "ends."
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
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Autocancel means that when you hit the ground after using the move you have basically no recovery time before you can use another move. What you're referring to is the rare situation when d-air happens to finish when you use it up at the ceiling.
 
Joined
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Autocancel means that when you hit the ground after using the move you have basically no recovery time before you can use another move. What you're referring to is the rare situation when d-air happens to finish when you use it up at the ceiling.
Thanks. I'm very sorry for the confusion.
 

Kadiev

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
652
Location
East Stroudsburg, PA
Don't know if this was posted but the D-air is terrible. The only time I ever use is if someone is trying to come through the bottom of the stage and I get a down smash on them then spike them. The only time I find this move useful at all. I can do better things falling down from a smash then d-airing to the stage.
 
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