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D1's Sonic Videos

D1

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(New) This is pretty recent like last month recent.

D1 (Sonic) v. HaB (ROB)

-$1 money match-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QpyEM4_NJQ (Round 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgpGvFTYvpU (Round 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhF_2qtbQaw (S.Death match cuz we didn't play by percent adv rule)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLhBt12oonk (Round 3)

-friendly-

D1 (Sonic) vs. HaB (Ganon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHugCa66FMU

D1 (Sonic) vs. HaB (Wolf)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhKT3vJv3qA

Any constructive critiques are welcome and appreciated.

I know my Sonic isn't perfect.

The End.
 

ROOOOY!

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I watched the first of the 'new' section. You've got a decent Sonic.
Mess with them more offstage, force them into mistakes.

I noticed you wanted to grab a lot too, and when you did it was more or less dthrow every time.
Especially at lower percents in this match up :

UP THROW.

Seriously, it's Sonic's most damaging throw, and ROB's 'weak spot' is underneath him, and Sonic's uair/nair/fair have quick start up time so do this lots to take advantage.
Don't confine in your ground game. ROB >> Sonic on the ground because of his range.
 

D1

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If its Sonic's most damaging throw why spam it if I can kill w/ it around 170-180? I wouldn't wanna deteriorate the move.
 

aeghrur

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Because since ROB's weakpoint is below, you can use Spring+U-air. It's a great kill move if you can
A. Hit him before he can D-Air.
B. Predict his D-air.
C. Um, outprioritize him?
Also, D-throw isn't too bad, it's good for tech chasing.
U-throw can be chained into throws.
And also, KID combo. Uh, I'll let KID explain that... hehehe...
 

Tenki

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If its Sonic's most damaging throw why spam it if I can kill w/ it around 170-180? I wouldn't wanna deteriorate the move.
For efficiency's sake, you'll want to use it as a damager so you can attempt to kill around 120-130 with a smash (or lower, depending on charge/placement).

besides, at 150+, if you wanna set up for a U-throw kill, all you have to do is grab your opponent and pummel a few times, then spindash once or twice with an aerial here or there, and regrab, pummel a few more times, and bam, fresh U-throw.
 

TwinkleToes

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If its Sonic's most damaging throw why spam it if I can kill w/ it around 170-180? I wouldn't wanna deteriorate the move.
Hm, you must not have realized how weak Sonic is. You'll have 10 moves in your queue from 100-170/180 easily so I'd say you're pretty safe to use it liberally up until that point.
 

D1

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Yeah he's weak. Anyway comment on vids you guys made your point thanks ^_^.
 

Tenki

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I'm watching this one, and I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be watching. [still editing this post]
I only watched the first 'recent MM' video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QpyEM4_NJQ

Uh... no offense, but at the beginning of the round, you made it look like wifi, missing all those B-airs, getting hit by like... everything, and jumped into N-airs and stuff.

Anyway, for your Sonic, you're not exactly taking advantage of his recovery too well:
- if you attack/airdodge ASAP out of spring jump, you can gain more horizontal control.
- use side-B before using double jump, especially if your opponent can interrupt your recovery with projectiles or something with low knockback. It travels faster through the air (cover more ground), goes lower than what your opponent is probably used to, and saves you a double jump for when you might need it.
edit: I guess you make use of it later, but when ROB tries to F-air wall you, it's better to just airdodge through what you can, then use side-B later, since side-B>double jump > Spring can let you survive from like, the bottom of the stage.

Other ... things to fix:
- You run up and shield alot, and you hold it down, too long lol. At one point, he almost grabbed you, if you had just slid a little further. Actually, at like 5:something on the video, he DID grab you out of your shield, and set you up for a gimp. However, I lol'd when he ran out of fuel.
- Laggy D-airs on a shield are bad.
- If you had B-aired him instead of gone for a U-air at the end of the match, his DI would have most likely star KO'd him.
 

da K.I.D.

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I like your avatar, its my fav character, and the sig is hot too, too bad im better than you at that game lol
 

da K.I.D.

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you shield grab constantly,

stop that

forward tilt, and down tilt

use them.

you are incredibly defensive and predictable

stop that too
 

D1

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I don't main Sonic.

I main Falco but am I trying to learn the character.

Thanks for sounding condescending.

It was pretty awesome for a first impression.

Anyways, I have newer vids and my playstyle changed from the vids that were upped.

Hopefully I do better this time around for you guys...sry for dissapointing but one must trip a couple times before becoming a master at walking.

Thanks for the honesty though much appreciated.
 

D1

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Ok ok...this is going on a tangent try not to be OT plz.

I actually would like to know if ppl saw the other vids? Besides round 1?
 

BlueTerrorist

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ZOMG!!! D1 WHAT'S GOOD!!! *ahem* expect a post from me about your Sonic later. (Better help me with Falco though :p).
 

BlueTerrorist

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Double post!! But hey, it's the Sonic Boards :p

Your Sonic is good, just a few things here and there. Let me tell you I lol'ed at HAB running out of fuel, ouch! I'm not counting the Wolf one (Basically killed himself, wasn't really something to look into). Here's something:

- You need to edgeguard alot more. Sonic has a very good offstage game, you could also mix some Homing Attacks in your gimps as well.

- Your ground game needs a bit of work, you shield for approach a bit much (it can get you punished). Try to use Side B more often, the invincibility frames on the initial hop makes it useful.

- ROBs recovery can be pressured since he's a bit vulnerable when getting out of his up B or during it. Make it your business to get under ROB and pressure him, he can't defend himself too well below him. Refrain from abusing Down B, his Gyros can stop you.

I suggest you look around the boards and learn Sonic's ATs. It will help you greatly if you add it to your game. You need as much as you can while playing Sonic so why not :ohwell:? Your Sonic could be better and needs some work, but it's definitely not the worst. I look forward to seeing your Sonic in the future :).

Now where are the rest of those vids HAB was supposed to put up lol :laugh:.
 

darkNES386

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You're doing really good considering you're not even utilizing Sonic's spin specials. I suggest you start experimenting with them if you haven't already. Most Sonics (myself included) tend to use them a little too predictably and find ourselves rolling into bad situations. The simplest thing to suggest is that instead of running into grab, sometimes you should go straight into a side B and catch players while they are dodging in place. It's a whole different timing for approaching. You can even shield cancel it and grab someone who's spot dodging or draw someone in and shield grab their attack.

I can't wait to see more in the near future.
 

Napilopez

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You're doing really good considering you're not even utilizing Sonic's spin specials. I suggest you start experimenting with them if you haven't already. Most Sonics (myself included) tend to use them a little too predictably and find ourselves rolling into bad situations. The simplest thing to suggest is that instead of running into grab, sometimes you should go straight into a side B and catch players while they are dodging in place. It's a whole different timing for approaching. You can even shield cancel it and grab someone who's spot dodging or draw someone in and shield grab their attack.

I can't wait to see more in the near future.
Just to add on to dNES' point, SideB's ivincibility frames will make hard to punish if you space the release point correctly. SideB shield cancelling allows for great mindgames and great spacing control, as unlike shield cancelling a dash, it totally kills momentum, and doesn't result in that small slide caused by shield cancelling a run. SideB shield cancelling can also be done out of a foxtrot instead of that nasty laggy running grab. Finally, SideB shield cancelling actualling gives you more grabbing distance that both shieldcancelled run-grab or a standard running grab. If the button inputs are made at the same place, SideB grab will always give you more distance.


Yea, I love that tech XD.
 

D1

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Holy sh**! Thanks alot guys ^___^ this is what I was looking forward to. I actually didn't know about the invincibility as I main for the most part Falco/DDD/Snake/Peach/Marth/Fox/Link/Yoshi. I will definitely take all what you guys told me into consideration.

NOW THATS WHAT I CALLED CONSTRUCTIVE!

^_^ <3 YOU GUYS.

I was about to give up on the Sonic boards too..since I thought everyone had a stick up their arse.

LOL and after all the help you gave me BT, I'll definitely teach you the gay ways of Falco XD. Hell I'm the best Falco in NY.
 

ROOOOY!

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I watched the Ganon vid as well, and I have to say that you have very nice tilt usage. You're like, the only other Sonic player aside me who seems to realise that Sonic's tilts ****.

Not a lot of critiscms, because you seemed to do the right things at the right time.

Only that you weren't mixing up your approaches much. Most of them were

run in => shield whatevers being thrown at you => punish

or a running grab, but you've gotta be careful not to be predictable with it.

I only counted one or two spindash/charge approaches. Maybe it's because you don't know much about them/how to implement them well, I don't know.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170844

Is a pretty useful guide to them.

Good luck using Sonic man.
 

Browny

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doesn't result in that small slide caused by shield cancelling a run.
In my frame data measuring I noticed if you let go of the stick just enough to stop running at full speed, then shield cancel the run sonic stops pretty much on the spot, a great deal quicker than if you just hold run. its kind of obvious for most characters since majority arent even half as fast as sonic lol but there is a noticeable frame advatage there for Sonic. Ive lost the footage in a recent format but im sure i could get around to measuring it again.
 

Napilopez

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Continuing on the point of using specials, I haven't watched your vids again in a while, and can't quite watch them now(weird disconnects when i try to watch youtube vids), but just wanted to add some points.

-Homing attack is a great punisher against opponents charging smashes that have a hitbox which comes out mainly horizontally. It can also be very useful for an unexpected recovery every once in a while if say you are playing a gimp happy char like MK, are sent flying far away, and don't have your second jump available. Although spring is great, approaching from far and about stage height can let you be easily gimped. But a video is the best explanation, check this out at about 1 min: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2tn5-ExiE

Had he not used HA, he would've been gimped and probably lost the round.

-Spincharge: People have serious misconceptions about the priority of this move. If not too stale, it will clang with tons of "high priority" ground moves at distances of about half the length of FD and less(at least when fully charged). Notice I said ground moves, because I think the interacton between aerials and an SDR is different. Jumping out of a spindash/spin charge roll however, into what we call a spin dash jump(SDJ) has very little priority, and is often where Sonic's get outprioritized.

-Spindash(Sideb): We covered it enough, but its incredibly versatile. Invincibility frames, setting up jab locks(SideB to footstool, spring, autocancelled dair, then jab lock), shield cancelling. Use invincibility frames on a fully charged aurasphere or Samus super ball beamy thing, it will frustrate your opponent to no end XD. It can be shieldcancelled anywwhere between input and a full charge. Once its fuly charged, you can't shield cancel it. Use SideB before your second jump for a huge gain on horizontal recovery. Not to mention that if you use it after your second jump, it will result in the infamous Sonic SideB suicide =P

-UpB, not much too say, lol. Invincible for about a full hops length after the spring is spawned, which is neato, and overall your best options for escaping combos. Don't get grabbed out of it though. To avoid this, you can "hug" the edge with a Uair as you rise, as its first horizontally disjointed enough to not let you be grabbed by most chars. Also, if you are ever too low to recover with just an UpB(rare, but it happens), and are near the edge in FD, you can just use upB on under the lip, then wall jump to grab the edge. Its awesome.

Umm lets see, about ROB. Like BlueTerrorist said, DownB actually isn't that good of a choice here because of Gyro. Dash attacking though, is XD. Use gyro against rob! lol. Dash attack stays out for a long time, so you easily grab robs gyro and glide toss it back at him. Also, Rob has a weakspot if you approach diagonally, which is why Aerial Spin Charge comes very much in handy here. Not to mention that rob is terribly easy to combo into with it, followed up by an aerial.
 

Napilopez

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In my frame data measuring I noticed if you let go of the stick just enough to stop running at full speed, then shield cancel the run sonic stops pretty much on the spot, a great deal quicker than if you just hold run. its kind of obvious for most characters since majority arent even half as fast as sonic lol but there is a noticeable frame advatage there for Sonic. Ive lost the footage in a recent format but im sure i could get around to measuring it again.
Interesting find, I didn't know that XD. I still like shield cancelling SideB though, because it's movement isn't "expected" or really foreseable. Its kinda choppy cuz sonic just kinda teleports a few feet in front of where he was before, lol.

Darn Double Post.

Anyways, I got to see your videos again, and first of all I wan't to praise you on your shield usage. While you may have perhaps overused it, I really think Us sonic should start using it more like you did, because you really didn't have trouble approaching anyone thanks to your great shield usage XD. You overall played pretty darn good.

Now one thing I do see though is that you had too much trouble landing a kill sometimes. You sometimes damaged youfopponent into "kill percentage range" quickly, but then in trying to land a kill, let yourself be damaged into killrange, something which I have found to be my own problem.

Some suggestions:

Charge Fsmash. Seriously. Its hypnotic. And it releases very quickly (because the charge release eliminates the lag from the startup animation).

When opponents are recovering, Dsmash might be more advisable that way you can ensure a hit no matter which side of you they land if they are close enough.

You may also want to try foxtrotted fsmashes. (Foxtrot>input another foxtrot then quickly smash). Also, just running past your opponent and screech stopping to a reverse fsmash rox XD.

Oh and as Tenki loves to do, a retreating fsmash. I forget the input, but basically you move slightly backward before you fsmash, serving as a kind of counter attack. you opponent attacks, yo do this quick manual dodge, and then fsmash XD.




You have solid basics, more Solid than the large majority of Sonic's here I'd say. Now if you want to learn to incorporate Sonic ATs and less known properties effectively, I'd suggest you look at some video's of Sonics who do so. There is just so much to learn about Sonic, so watching vids is a great way to start. In particular I'd like to suggest Puffball/Espy's matches against Hylian, as its against someone who is known to be skilled, and Espy uses many of these Sonic ATs effectively. I already linked one in the my last post, but here it is again. Check the related vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2tn5-ExiE
 

D1

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Wow you are guys are BEYOND AWESOME!

I must put all this into practice tomorrow for I have an off day from college thanks to a random Jewish holiday...and I'm not Jewish LMAO!

Sonic's the name...SPEED'S MAH GAYME! XD
 

Napilopez

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Haha ok cool, good luck =]. The key with Sonic is using ATs at the right time. Too many of us I think would use ATs just because we can do them lol(ASC craze back in may... lol)

D1 are you anywhere near the city(NYC)? Are you going to that Play N Trade tourney on the 18th?
 

D1

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You got it. I reside in Brooklyn, NY. I'm surprised I never heard or seen you in the weekly threads. There's a tournament this Friday in the Bx hosted by Bum. You should check the Atlantic North section for Bum's thread. His username is BUM163. It'll be awesome to see you in action @ PlayNTrade on the 18th. I'm trying to see if I can make it b/c I usually work on Saturdays n Sundays. -_-
 

P a i n

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I watched the wolf fight, and I liked your technical skill, but you lacked in KO and knock back. I saw a lot of chances where an offstage chase would have been viable, but instead you waited and grabbed. It's still good, but considering at least 2 (The first two)(couldn't watch the last half, youtube froze) of wolf's deaths were sideB SD's, I recommend working on finishers.
I'm only criticising cos it's much more beneficial then 'nice vidz lul,' cos in the end, I thoroughly enjoyed the vids, a lot of skill involved, so overall; A spiffing sonic.

:sonic: Cmon, step it up!
 

Napilopez

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You got it. I reside in Brooklyn, NY. I'm surprised I never heard or seen you in the weekly threads. There's a tournament this Friday in the Bx hosted by Bum. You should check the Atlantic North section for Bum's thread. His username is BUM163. It'll be awesome to see you in action @ PlayNTrade on the 18th. I'm trying to see if I can make it b/c I usually work on Saturdays n Sundays. -_-
Ahh poopy, I have something going on this friday, I wish I could go!

And the reason you haven't seen me in weekly threads is because Play N Trade will be my very first tourney actually XD. I play a pretty mean Sonic that can handle a lot of the high/top tier chars relatively well, but that's just WiFi. I'm kinda nervous as to my performance in real life since I've never played anyone trully skilled offline, but excited nevertheless! Offline should give let me space and powershield with Sonics speed much better XD.

Look forward to meeting you =P
 

darkNES386

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Ahh poopy, I have something going on this friday, I wish I could go!

And the reason you haven't seen me in weekly threads is because Play N Trade will be my very first tourney actually XD. I play a pretty mean Sonic that can handle a lot of the high/top tier chars relatively well, but that's just WiFi. I'm kinda nervous as to my performance in real life since I've never played anyone trully skilled offline, but excited nevertheless! Offline should give let me space and powershield with Sonics speed much better XD.

Look forward to meeting you =P
Sonics at tournaments right now have the nice advantage of being unknown to a lot of players. Of course, this won't last forever but if you make it to your first event just keep in mind that fact. I'm going to pull a Gladiator here but: Win the crowd. It's not hard for Sonic once he has a big "upset" and it will make the day even more fun for you.
 

D1

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Most of NYers are already used to fighting Sonic. There's BlueTerrorist, Wes (yes the Samus main from Melee days), Malcolm (an NJ player that goes to college in NY and enters tourneys in the city), and etc.
 

Tenki

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yeah XD

Sonic has alot of mixup tools.

I can still give people trouble even after they've played me alot of times, so I guess it's just a matter of reading and counter-reading.
 

Camalange

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yeah XD

Sonic has alot of mixup tools.

I can still give people trouble even after they've played me alot of times, so I guess it's just a matter of reading and counter-reading.
It's true. Most of my opponents never know what I'm going to do next...for the most part anyway. If they're predicting my approaches, then I know I'm doing something wrong and not playing very well.
 

infomon

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Not that you haven't already been wall-of-text'd with advice here... but I glanced at the match vs. ROB.... One thing I noticed is that after getting hit at high percents you come dangerously close to the killzone, and yet you're just hanging out tumbling around in hitstun. Or sometimes you airdodge. But actually, the best thing to do during hitstun as soon as you are able, is to use a fast aerial attack; for Sonic this is Bair, Uair, or maybe Fair; I'm not sure which is the fastest. But after you're done the aerial you can use your 2nd jump to stop your knockback momentum so you can avoid the killzone. Read [this thread] for details.
 
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