Custom Stage Project

[MysteriousSilver]

I honestly think that there won't be an issue. You can't play online without a miiverse account, after all.

I'm not talking about downloading them, I'm talking about "agreeing to neutral position"

 

[clydeaker]

I remade Skyloft (Project M)
I posted it on Miiverse here.

Spoiler

Spawn locations:

Miiverse Photo:

The Original:

I remade this by comparing not only character sizes, but by comparing Temple in Smash 4 to Project M Skyloft. So I believe this stage is accurate and to scale. After trying to add more detail to the ground with a dirt path and stairs I found it to be glitchy so I decided to keep it minimal and simple.

I still need help fixing it up and how to do some test to make sure it's at the correct height and the spawn locations are in the right spot and maybe add more detail to the bottom of the stage, but after doing a few test I don't think the spawn locations, Blast line height, and bottom stage detail are causing any major problems to the stages accuracy. So I probably won't do so unless someone else thinks it's a major issue.

 

[krazyzyko]

Absolutely! Let me know your Miiverse name and I'll add you to our builder list. Also I know we can have players agree to neutral start, but in seeking widespread acceptance by the community, it would be preferred to avoid that being necessary


Excellent, thank you. I'll check them out right now


Awesome, I'll check it out

Thx my NNID is Zupa_Koopa
And my mii's name is V
(From V for Vendetta)

 

[rorycosgrove]

It's Official!! The Custom Stage Project will be debuting at POPnOFF 5 this Friday! This will be streamed at www.twitch.tv/game5smash

 

[krazyzyko]

@ rorycosgrove
I shared a few remakes today:

Pokemon Stadium
Dreamland 64
Wario ware, inc.
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Island 64
Mushroom Kingdom U
Mushroom Kingdom U (sky)
Green greens
Peach's Castle 64
Fountain of Dreams

I reached the sharing limit for today so I'll keep uploading tomorrow.

 

[rorycosgrove]

@ rorycosgrove
I shared a few remakes today:

Pokemon Stadium
Dreamland 64
Wario ware, inc.
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Island 64
Mushroom Kingdom U
Mushroom Kingdom U (sky)
Green greens
Peach's Castle 64
Fountain of Dreams

I reached the sharing limit for today so I'll keep uploading tomorrow.

Excellent I'll check these out soon

 

[Geno9999]

I'm taking a bit of a break from reworking Fountain of Dreams, especially with 1.2 having the best spawns I can get. Would the second form of Frigate Orpheon work? Because I think the main problem with that stage v. other transformations that were ruled as counterpicks is that the transition killed you very easily. The central platform area is fine, though I may need some professional testing on the moving platforms that come from the sides and the Cannon positions. Can some of the testers send me a friend invite so I can send you the stage without needing to post online?

Or in general really, it'd be great to hear some more feedback on what I can improve on my stages to make them more competitive viable.

 

[clydeaker]

I've been thinking about this lately and I feel like using characters as a unit measurement to remake past stages isn't the most accurate way of remaking past stages. After doing some research I found that comparing official past stages between games is the best way to compare scale. Characters sizes change from game to game but the stages are always constant.

Here are some examples:
-Dream Land, Kongo Jungle, and Yoshi's Island are slightly larger in Melee compared to Smash 64 with characters as a constant. Source: Past Stages in Melee.
-Past stages in Brawl are smaller compared to characters in Melee and some have slight differences. Source: Past Stages in Brawl.
-Past Stages in Smash 4 that were from Melee were also in Brawl (except Kongo Jungle 64). Thus the Brawl versions of Melee stages were used in Smash 4. Source: Past Stages in Smash 4.

For example, if I were to remake Skyloft (Project M) I would compare Skyloft in Project M to Temple in Smash for Wii U You then compare the stage to a character like Mario who we know is about 2x3 squares in stage builder. This way the stages are more accurate than if I were to just compare characters between games. Also keep in mind characters are always moving even when standing still so it's even harder to get it accurate.

Another example is if I were to recreate Saffron City (64) I would Compare Saffron City (64) to Mario (64), Mario (64) to Congo Jungle (64), Congo Jungle (64) to Kongo Jungle 64 (Wii U), Kongo Jungle 64 (Wii U) to Mario (Wii U), Mario (Wii U) to Stage Builder grid. I know this seams really complex but I think it's a more accurate way to remaking past stages.

There is one exception. If I were to remake stages in Smash 3DS I could use characters as a unit measurement to accurately recreate past stages.

If you can do this, Use the correct background and block textures, Use the correct size grid, place the stage at the correct height according to the blast zones, use grabable ledges correctly, use platforms correctly, and Fix spawn location to mimic the original You will have one heck of a Past Stage Remake.

I might just be over thinking this and making it more complex than it needs to be. What do you guy's think?

 

[clydeaker]

I understand we can change the stages to make them more tournament legal, however I suggest we stick to remaking Past Stages that are generally accepted as legal or counter pick stages this way these stages will for sure make it in. I'm not saying we have too. It's just a suggestion.
Here are all Smash boards legal/ counterpick stages:

Spoiler

-Dream Land (64) (Melee) (Project M)
-Congo Jungle (64) (Melee)
-Peach's Castle (64)
-Final Destination (Melee) (Project M)
-Battlefield (Melee) (Project M)
-Yoshi's Story (Melee)
-Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
-Pokemon Stadium (Melee) (Brawl) (Project M)
-Pokemon Stadium [Fire] (Melee) (Brawl) (Project M)
-Pokemon Stadium [Rock] (Melee) (Brawl) (Project M)
-Pokemon Stadium [Water] (Melee) (Brawl) (Project M)
-Pokemon Stadium [Grass] (Melee) (Brawl) (Project M)
-Battlefield (Brawl)
-Final Destination (Brawl)
-Lylat Cruise (Brawl) (Melee) (Project M)
-Smashville (Brawl) (Project M)
-Yoshi's Island (Brawl) (Project M)
-Battleship Halbird (Brawl)
-Castle Siege (Brawl)
-Smashville (Brawl) (Project M)
-Pokemon Stadium 2 (Project M)
-Distand Planet (Project M)
-Wario Ware (Project M)
-Green Hill Zone
-Norfair (Project M)

 

[krazyzyko]

I'm taking a bit of a break from reworking Fountain of Dreams, especially with 1.2 having the best spawns I can get. Would the second form of Frigate Orpheon work? Because I think the main problem with that stage v. other transformations that were ruled as counterpicks is that the transition killed you very easily. The central platform area is fine, though I may need some professional testing on the moving platforms that come from the sides and the Cannon positions. Can some of the testers send me a friend invite so I can send you the stage without needing to post online?

Or in general really, it'd be great to hear some more feedback on what I can improve on my stages to make them more competitive viable.

The problem with the moving platforms on Frigate Orpheon 2 is that they won't go completely off screen like in brawl. So characters with a decent recovery can just camp out on then. If I were to make that stage with the moving platforms I'd probably put one slip under the stage so it would hide inside the main platform every now and then. So players are forced to use the actual stage.

The issue I had with Frigate Orpheon 1 was the spawn points were too close from each other and the stage felt a little too small.

@ clydeaker - I agree to an extent because stages and character sizes change from game to game. But Mario is still useful to measure the distance between platforms, heights, etc. But we should still alter the size to sm4sh's competitive convenience.
Because stages like sector Z are just ridiculously huge if remade identically and stages like metal cavern 64 are too small.

 

[clydeaker]

@ clydeaker - I agree to an extent because stages and character sizes change from game to game. But Mario is still useful to measure the distance between platforms, heights, etc. But we should still alter the size to sm4sh's competitive convenience.
Because stages like sector Z are just ridiculously huge if remade identically and stages like metal cavern 64 are too small.

I know, I just want to try and make the most accurate past stage remakes that I can. I like things to be perfect. I don't mind if your or someone else has a different method. its all good.

 

[Geno9999]

The problem with the moving platforms on Frigate Orpheon 2 is that they won't go completely off screen like in brawl. So characters with a decent recovery can just camp out on then. If I were to make that stage with the moving platforms I'd probably put one slip under the stage so it would hide inside the main platform every now and then. So players are forced to use the actual stage.

That's what cannons are for: placed outside of camera view and making sure that players can't evade it by standing on the farthest edge of the moving platform. The downside is that it effectively makes the blast zone smaller on the sides, slightly. Other ideas I had were putting Lava Hazards there that wouldn't kill players, it would knock them back towards the center stage; changing the platforms so that only one platform is moving through the stage, going through the center and peeking out the edges rather than having two platforms that alternate.

 

[clydeaker]

We have to get this builder on here ! He is a freaking master at recreating past stages!

 

[rorycosgrove]

Sorry for my absence here guys I've been very busy. My tournament with these stages will be tomorrow streamed at www.twitch.tv/game5smash!

 

[krazyzyko]

That's what cannons are for: placed outside of camera view and making sure that players can't evade it by standing on the farthest edge of the moving platform. The downside is that it effectively makes the blast zone smaller on the sides, slightly. Other ideas I had were putting Lava Hazards there that wouldn't kill players, it would knock them back towards the center stage; changing the platforms so that only one platform is moving through the stage, going through the center and peeking out the edges rather than having two platforms that alternate.

That's what cannons are for: placed outside of camera view and making sure that players can't evade it by standing on the farthest edge of the moving platform. The downside is that it effectively makes the blast zone smaller on the sides, slightly. Other ideas I had were putting Lava Hazards there that wouldn't kill players, it would knock them back towards the center stage; changing the platforms so that only one platform is moving through the stage, going through the center and peeking out the edges rather than having two platforms that alternate.

I never thought about the cannons. Its a pretty cool idea. I remade sky world, YI brawl and FO2 thx to this.

 

[DEEK4Y]

I sincerely hope this does not gain traction. I am at work and not in the mood to type out my full-length opinion on this matter but I am BEGGING for this to not become a real thing.

But, to make sure I have this straight, inclusion of your project in competitive sm4sh would require me to lookup a custom farming guide, play ridiculous non-competitive game-modes, unlock a plethora of useless trophies for new special moves that I don't even want, go to smashboards to vote for my favorite set for a tournament that I am not interested in/going to, memorize the EVO custom set "codes" and what they stand for, AND download a bunch of stages from X number of people BEFORE I can even start practicing competitive sm4sh in its current state?

I have a wife, work full time and am trying to learn the basic concepts of this game. All of this combined is an enormous time-commitment and an overall burden yet you're asking us to place another straw on the camel's back for.... Yoshi's story - sm4sh edition? Just.... No

 

[Smearglangelo]

I sincerely hope this does not gain traction. I am at work and not in the mood to type out my full-length opinion on this matter but I am BEGGING for this to not become a real thing.

But, to make sure I have this straight, inclusion of your project in competitive sm4sh would require me to lookup a custom farming guide, play ridiculous non-competitive game-modes, unlock a plethora of useless trophies for new special moves that I don't even want, go to smashboards to vote for my favorite set for a tournament that I am not interested in/going to, memorize the EVO custom set "codes" and what they stand for, AND download a bunch of stages from X number of people BEFORE I can even start practicing competitive sm4sh in its current state?

I have a wife, work full time and am trying to learn the basic concepts of this game. All of this combined is an enormous time-commitment and an overall burden yet you're asking us to place another straw on the camel's back for.... Yoshi's story - sm4sh edition? Just.... No

Pray that people don't start using equipment and special smash. Heavy Gravity and Smooth Lander have gotten a bit of attention recently.

I wouldn't worry too much over this if I were you. Smash 4 was made with a "play the way you want" mentality, so there are bound to be a few different competitive rulesets for this game. In really serious tournaments people would just use the regular competitive rules to ensure that everyone is on the same page. Just keep practicing the stuff you know and don't concern yourself with all these "custom projects" floating around.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Customs worked excellently in tournament! Vids will be up soon. Also I've noticed this thread is listed as "Meta" now. Does anyone know what that means?

 

[clydeaker]

@ clydeaker - I agree to an extent because stages and character sizes change from game to game. But Mario is still useful to measure the distance between platforms, heights, etc. But we should still alter the size to sm4sh's competitive convenience.
Because stages like sector Z are just ridiculously huge if remade identically and stages like metal cavern 64 are too small.

I think using multiple methods such as my method of comparing in game past stages to their original game. and by comparing character sizes like mario between games is the best way to go. I also recommend using BunchOfMorons popular method of putting each stage up to a grid to make everything even and to scale. Heres a link to his video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBM4ef9_RuU

 

[Muro]

Pray that people don't start using equipment and special smash. Heavy Gravity and Smooth Lander have gotten a bit of attention recently.

I pray that they do, and now that you mention it, SLHG could probably benefit from some custom stages made specifically to that metagame, hmm.

 

[clydeaker]

Dose the Custom Stage Project only accept past stage remakes? If not here are two of my favorite stages I made using stage builder.
Simple Glory
Miiverse Download

Spoiler

Simple Glory
Simple Glory is exactly what it sounds like. Although it may look like your average Final Destination/ Omega Stage, it is quite different with the ability to drop through the floor. You can come up with different strategies such as uppercutting through the floor, spiking people underneath the stage, and dodging attacks by falling. The only think that might throw people off their game is that there aren't grab-able ledges.
-Note: this stage may favor characters with good recovery like Villager, R.O.B. and Olimar over characters like Little Mac, Ganondorf, and Dr. Mario. For more info on character recovery heights click here and here.

Default view:

Flat view:

Miiverse image:

Stage Blueprints:
-Size: Small
-Background: 1 (sky).
-Red indicates platform; Texture 4
-Yellow: grid points
-Music: Boss Battle (Melee) Remix

DOWLOAD

Curve
Miiverse Download

Spoiler

Curve
Curve is similar to Big Battlefield. It's meant to be somewhat competitive and simple. The entire stage is curved inward as if it were a bowl. Also the curved bottom makes it easier to grab the ledges.
-Note: This stage may favor floaty characters like Peach over grounded characters like Little Mac.
Default view:

Flat view:

Miiverse image:

Stage Blueprints:
-Size: Medium
-Background: 5 (yellow; blocky)
-Red: platforms; Texture 4
-Blue: solid object; Texture 4
-Yellow: Grid points
-Music: Space Battleground (Star Fox)

DOWNLOAD

 

[clydeaker]

Customs worked excellently in tournament! Vids will be up soon. Also I've noticed this thread is listed as "Meta" now. Does anyone know what that means?

I believe it refers to the metagame.
Metagame refers to the collective decisions that are made outside of a game that affect tournament play. For example players decisions on what characters to use and what stages to practice on for tournaments are the most basic decisions that give way to the metagame.
P.S. I kinda plagiarized all of that from ssbwiki.com.

 

[Smearglangelo]

I pray that they do, and now that you mention it, SLHG could probably benefit from some custom stages made specifically to that metagame, hmm.

Maybe it'll be introduced later down the road. After the initial custom move hubbub has died down.

I wouldn't be surprised if equipment became legal in the end, but I would be shocked if it happened anytime soon.

 

[DC| Reset Bomb Jigglypuff]

This whole thing seems to be coming along nicely.

 

[rorycosgrove]

This whole thing seems to be coming along nicely.

It is! Unfortunately we only had one streamed match with CSP stages but they were played and well accepted at my tournament on Friday. Here's the tournament match with CSP Yoshi's: https://youtu.be/KGZrbRlGyLg?t=6m37s
Also much thanks for all the continued support. We do want to incorporate original stages and other classics as well, but we want to gain traction with these strong 3 first and then slowly add more as we do

 

[clydeaker]

I think we should start with remaking stages from both Smash 4 and 3DS first. like default Pokemon Stadium 2 (Brawl, Wii U) and Yoshi's Island (Brawl, 3DS)
Here's a list of the easiest games to accurately remake stages from to the hardest.
1. Wii U
2. 3DS
3. Brawl
4. Project M
5. Melee
6. 64

 

[rorycosgrove]

Once again I apologize for my lack of activity here. I've been very busy lately but I'm still quite committed to this project. I have a tournament coming up this weekend which will feature the stages once again, even featuring one as a starter. One issue we've found though is that both Yoshi's and PS have very high ceiling boundaries, with Fox's UpSmash killing Mario at no lower than 110. This moves kills Mario at 104 on PS2 in the game. If both of these stages are already set to "Small," then this can be fixed by simply raising the entire stage up a bit. @ Smearglangelo any chance you're up for the challenge? If so, I'd recommend referring to this:

I don't know if this has been tested or discovered, but I went ahead and looked at vertical blast zones and the stage size of small and medium, to see if there was an adverse effect on them.

What I did in the test was construct a small and medium stage consisting of platforms separated by the minimum height (1), then go to training using Ike as myself and against Mario (without DI), and test at what %s an uncharged and charged U-Smash would kill. Finally, after all was done, I would got to Battlefield (base stage and platforms) and Final Destination and compare the %s. The lack of studies of DI weren't important in the test, the differences under the same circumstances were.

Sample:

(HEIGHT) = UNCHARGED KILL %/CHARGED KILL %

Small

-9 = 102/64
-8 = 100/63
-7 = 99/61
-6 = 97/60
-5 = 95/59
-4 = 94/58
-3 = 92/57
-2 = 90/55
-1 = 88/54
0 = 86/52
1 = 85/51
2 = 83/50
3 = 81/48
4 = 79/47
Medium

-4 = 104/65
-3 = 102/64
-2 = 100/63
-1 = 99/61
0 = 97/60
1 = 95/59
2 = 94/58
3 = 92/57
4 = 90/55
5 = 88/54
6 = 86/52
7 = 85/51
8 = 83/50
9 = 81/48

Battlefield (base stage) = 94/58
Battlefield (1st tier platforms) = 86/52
Battlefield (2nd tier platform) = 77/45
FD = 90/55

Assuming the base stage height (I'll call it "Y") is the same for both small and medium stages, the difference in the kill %s is 10-11% earlier for smaller stages. But, during the study, I found a rather intriguing discovery.

At given heights, a medium stage can yield the same kill %s as a small stage, and vice versa. M9 to S3, M0 to S(-6), and so forth. A formula can be yielded, actually, assuming Y is the height of the medium stage:

SSS (Small Stage Size) = Y - 6

Another thing that was interesting is the comparison of the small and medium stages compared to Battlefield and FD. Battlefield is akin to an M2 stage with M6 and (likely) M10 platforms...or an S(-4) stage with S0 and S4 platforms. Same as FD, it can be a M4 or S(-2) stage.

So, now it begs the question: what are the differences?

I don't know about the horizontal blast zones, but this discovery actually changes the whole playing field in terms of making stages. We can mimic the blast zones (at the very least vertically) of stages, and yet build upon it as well. We can create a stage with base-Battlefields %s, but with a wall...the possibilities of creating the perfect stages are nearly upon us, friends!

My apologies for the lengthy post, but it was something to do to pass time for me, and I really would like custom stages pushed forward for competitive Smash. Hope this helps! ^w^

 

[Smearglangelo]

I'll get right on it! It shouldn't take me too long to make the adjustments.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I'll get right on it! It shouldn't take me too long to make the adjustments.

Excellent thank you. Are these stages both "Small" btw? The side blastzones on Yoshi's are pretty wide but if it's already small then I know there's no helping that

 

[Smearglangelo]

Excellent thank you. Are these stages both "Small" btw? The side blastzones on Yoshi's are pretty wide but if it's already small then I know there's no helping that

Both of them are set to medium. Want me to downgrade Yoshi's Island to small?

Speaking of blastzones, if I can't perfectly match up the ceiling KO percentages, do you want the ceiling KO percentage to be slightly higher or slightly lower than the original stage? It's usually a 1% difference.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Both of them are set to medium. Want me to downgrade Yoshi's Island to small?

Speaking of blastzones, if I can't perfectly match up the ceiling KO percentages, do you want the ceiling KO percentage to be slightly higher or slightly lower than the original stage? It's usually a 1% difference.

On Yoshi's and PS, the ceiling is too high so the percent should be lower, preferably by more than 1% if possible. I'm not sure how small the blast zones are on "Small" but I feel like Yoshi's would be good set to that

 

[Smearglangelo]

On Yoshi's and PS, the ceiling is too high so the percent should be lower, preferably by more than 1% if possible.

I don't think you understood what I was asking. That's okay, we can sort it out later.

The updated stages have been posted to Miiverse!

 

[Geno9999]

On that note, I may make one last revision for Fountain of Dreams with regards to the KO ceiling. Would Mario's Smash Attacks make for a good standard for determining the KO range?

 

[Venks]

If there is ever an online tournament to test custom stages I'd totally be all over that.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I don't think you understood what I was asking. That's okay, we can sort it out later.

The updated stages have been posted to Miiverse!

My bad, I reread your post. I assume by "original stages" you meant the Official versions which I didn't realize. Nevertheless thanks again for your hard work. Due to the timing we're going to stick with the original CSPs for my tournament tomorrow, as they are already on many of our setups, but after this one we'll be doing a lot more with the project, so stay tuned everyone! There are many great designs that deserve more attention and they'll get it soon

 

[MajorMajora]

May I join as a tester?

 

[rorycosgrove]

May I join as a tester?

Certainly!
Also we had much success using the CSP stages in tournament yesterday, I'll have vids up soon and will prepare the updated stages

 

[Geno9999]

So it's been a little over a month and now the stages that were posted since day one have now started to become non-downloadable. It might be a few more days before it actually affects the stage list, but I think we should discuss how we are to create a standard for all tournaments should this project grow beyond just 1 or 2 local tournaments. Should we keep reposting the stages on Miiverse, or should we reconsider sharing stages via Imgur pictures of the grids?

 

[MajorMajora]

I'd say reposting is the best way to go. If we have a few people who has them all downloaded, they can upload them every month or so. If we rely on imgur, we have human error when it comes to recreating them. That's an unnecessary and undesirable variable.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

We have to get this builder on here ! He is a freaking master at recreating past stages!

That's Jeff Cork from GameInformer...
OMGZ GAEMINFORMRE!!!!!1!!!1!!!!
...Sorry...
Yeah, we should totally get him on here.
I don't have wi-fi so I can't test/make, but I'd love to see progress with this!