Custom Stage Project

[ParanoidDrone]

So I went ahead and shared two of my stages on Miiverse, but how to I download stages I like the look of?

 

[rorycosgrove]

Sorry I'm late guys, just updating my game now. I'm so glad that there's a Miiverse option, and I agree that we should have one general account to share them. I'm going to look into taking this responsibiity as soon as I'm updated. Also for now, those of you here who have stages you want to send me can add me NNID:rorycosgrove and I'll get them on Miiverse after testing

 

[Jellyfish4102]

So I went ahead and shared two of my stages on Miiverse, but how to I download stages I like the look of?

You have to click on the post and then click the start icon. Do you mind linking your miiverse page so we can see them?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

You have to click on the post and then click the start icon. Do you mind linking your miiverse page so we can see them?

This it?

 

[Jellyfish4102]

This it?

Yes, thanks.

Also relevant information to this thread, you cannot edit downloaded stages. This is both good and bad. Its bad bad because it means you won't be able to edit a stage you like but want to alter. Its good for competition because it makes it impossible to cheat. (For example someone might edit a custom stage to make the platforms slightly lower to help their character but this is impossible for downloaded stages).

 

[hell-dew]

i need to get some of those stages up there i entirely Agree with this project and will make levels for it

 

[Eonn]

How about Smashboards hosts a custom stage contest? There should be a rule against remakes (especially BF/FD clones) and the community + selection of experienced and knowledgeable "judges" can vote on the top 3 stages after several weeks of testing and try implementing them. I'm not entirely sure how the process would work but I think it would be a great way to encourage new, innovative, and competitive stages. Only 2 or 3 to avoid over saturation, and they have to be unique.

 

[Mmeaninglessnamee]

The Hypest team on Reddit (r/smashbros) was planning on having a custom-stages-only tournament test once stage sharing released. So there will be that to get some data on effective/ineffective stages. (or it will be crap, but that's data too)

 

[KingofSarus]

I used to recreate 64/Melee stages on Stage Creator on Brawl all the time, I'm down for something like this for Four.

To start it off, a good "community-approved" custom Netural stage and Counter-pick stage that are greatly different from the regular stages would be legit.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Yes, thanks.

Also relevant information to this thread, you cannot edit downloaded stages. This is both good and bad. Its bad bad because it means you won't be able to edit a stage you like but want to alter. Its good for competition because it makes it impossible to cheat. (For example someone might edit a custom stage to make the platforms slightly lower to help their character but this is impossible for downloaded stages).

I like this. It means that when the community decides which stages to use, there won't be any inconsistencies

Okay guys send your prospective tournament stages to NNID: rorycosgrove with "CSP" and your stage name and I will be sharing them out on Miiverse when we agree on a list to try in tournaments

 

[Balgorxz]

I've seen so many good stages so far I can't say no to customs stages, as long as we find some good one that can replace smashville a bit I'll be okay with it.
edit:my only problem with people sharing stages is that you can't change the music and most of the people choose FD theme like we haven't listened to it enough already

So let me get this If I found someone made a smaller hazardless jungle hijinx, then it's a strong cotender?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I've seen so many good stages so far I can't say no to customs stages, as long as we find some good one that can replace smashville a bit I'll be okay with it.
edit:my only problem with people sharing stages is that you can't change the music and most of the people choose FD theme like we haven't listened to it enough already

So let me get this If I found someone made a smaller hazardless jungle hijinx, then it's a strong cotender?

My stages don't have FD music. </shameless plug>

 

[rorycosgrove]

I've seen so many good stages so far I can't say no to customs stages, as long as we find some good one that can replace smashville a bit I'll be okay with it.
edit:my only problem with people sharing stages is that you can't change the music and most of the people choose FD theme like we haven't listened to it enough already

So let me get this If I found someone made a smaller hazardless jungle hijinx, then it's a strong cotender?

Yes that's a good idea. We wanna have a lot of stages in the running so we can test and discuss everything. Although PS and WarioWare are the strongest contenders right now

My stages don't have FD music. </shameless plug>

I like a lot of your designs. Many are a tad too extreme for tournament use but some are definitely worth testing - I'll get on that tomorrow. Not sure how the image translates blast zones

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Not sure how the image translates blast zones

Badly. The ones with a wall going all the way down still show empty space at the bottom in the Miiverse post.

 

[BlurB]

I'm hoping that many of you are aware of Cobb's AMAZING design theory and use of custom stages. They are so well thought out with the competitive scene in mind. Every angle and platform serves a specific purpose.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLmm1joZm6wUU2ghzGdfVFsA9wykBhDA0H&v=REokAzLMCc8

@ rorycosgrove please please get Cobbs involved in this. He has made a three part series that shows an excellent sense of what makes a stage interesting, competitively viable, and has stages that range from neutrals to strong counter picks.

He looks at his stages very close and analyses the unique advantages and mechanics that other default stages don't offer in smash 4.

I don't know what Cobbs name is on smashboards but he would be an amazing resource for this project.

 

[Balgorxz]

How about we find 3 stages that can serve similar purposes than the favourite 3 in smash 4, to be fair with mac lol.
1 Custom stage that is 0-10% plataforms (FD equivalent)
1 Custom stage that has moving plataforms that consist 30% of the stage (Smashville equivalent)
1 Custom stage that consist in 50% plataforms (BF equivalent)

Now that we know this we can focus in finding stages that are in between these stages and serve a different purpose for competitive matches.

example 1: Find a Custom stage based on old/new stage without hazard that consists in 20% static plataforms, like yoshi's in the 3DS.
an stage like this do no exist in the Wii U version.

 

[Metal B]

We should really start with the project now. Let us begin with actually asking question and collecting facts.
Let me kick-start the discussion with one question:
What features and elements should be banned from any stage-design and why?
Not everything works in completive play, even so they are fun for other proposes. Some elements are just to overpowered, broken or destroy the flow of a battle by giving someone a big advantage. We should collect those to narrow down all the unfavourable designs. This doesn't include designs or elements, which can be problematic under specific conditions. A straight wall can be problematic, but not in all situations. This discussion is only about the 100% problematic elements!
Important rule of thump! Rules can be broken. Nothing is set in stone. But if people want to break the rules, they should first know, why something got ruled out and need to explain, why it is an expectation of rule.

• Walk-offs:
  Smash is designed around edge-control and some characters have moves, which only exists for recovering. Edge-Guarding, Metoer-Smashes and many tactics become completely useless with Walk-offs and characters with a weak point in recovering become to overpowered (Little Mac). They transform Smash into a different game.
  And then we also have the problem of camping at and locks to the edge of the screen. [Example: Coliseum (WiiU)]
  
  
• Cave of Lives:
  Quote from the Smash-Wiki:
  "A cave of life is an unofficial term for an enclosed area in a stage where characters can survive to much higher percentages than usual. These areas have an impassable platform above the area, and can contain other walls, which allows characters to tech and survive potentially fatal blows. Even without teching, characters will bounce off the ceiling, which absorbs some of the knockback, and allows the character to survive longer than usual.
  
  Caves of life are often considered a degenerative aspect of a stage for competitive play. Besides allowing characters to survive attacks well beyond what is usually possible, they often provide overly powerful camping positions (due to their enclosed nature and the difficulty of KOing characters within them), and they produce an over centralisation on teching (players skilled at teching receive a disproportional advantage from them in comparisons to players who can't tech so well). As such, most stages with them are universally banned from tournaments, and stages with more minor caves of life are rarely legal."
  [Example: Temple (Melee)]
  
  
• Brickwalls:
  A Brickwall as a straight wall with a 90° angle, a direct connection to a ground-space and enough space for at least two characters to stand on this connected ground. This design-element can be exploited to hold an opponent in a long or infinity combo, which they can't escape. This gives an opponent and some characters an too big advantage. [Example: Peach Castle (Melee)]
  
  
• Cages:
  Cages are an combination of Caves of Lives, Brickwalls and a little of Walk-offs.
  Characters will live forever in cages with only slim opportunities to actually KO them. Some characters can catch opponents in infinity or long combos and with no edge or point to recover to, they change the way to play a competitive game of Smash.
  
  
• Giant Stages:
  Really big stages create a lot of problems. Some characters are much faster then others, so they can use the space to circle-jump around them and wait for the timer to run out. Others can spam particles and easily run away, which makes the fights very campy. Also characters take longer to KO. All in all it heavily increases the length of all fights and gives some characters an big advantage. [Example: Pork City (Brawl)]
  
  
• Labyrinths:
  A Labyrinths are many areas, which are separated from and connected to another. Besides creating Cave of Lives, Brickwalls and Cages, Labyrinths give characters more possibility to run away, camp and simply survive. [Example: Temple (Melee)]

• Ferris Wheel Designs:
  Similar to Labyrinths the stage has many different, connected areas, which are just not separated, This design shares the same problems with the Labyrinths. Characters can easily circle-jump through the different areas, camp or in other ways out run characters. [Example: Pac-Mace (3DS)]

• Extreme Centers:
  If a main platform is very high, very low, very far to the sides or a combinations of them, then they have an extreme center. This changes the general distances blast zones in a direction, which strongly changes the way of playing:
  • Stages with a extreme center placed to the sides, will make players start camping on those sides.
    
  • Stages with a extreme center to the top will give characters with great vertical KO-Moves an big advantage and help characters with great recovery to survive Meteor-Smahes too much.
    
  • Stages with a extreme center to the bottom will give characters, who have to recover low, a big disadvantage and increase the usefulness of Meteor-Smashes too much.
  Note: Extreme Centers only includes extremes cases. A slight reposition in a direction could be a fine feature for a stage.
  
  
• VIP Areas:
  Areas on a stage, that can only be reached by a limited number of characters or only with a disadvantage for some characters. One example is the tree on the Duck Hunt-Stage: Little Mac can only reach the higher point, if he uses his Up-B, which gives him a big disadvantage. Characters can also use those areas to circle-jump, camp or waiting for the clock to run out. [Example: Duck-Hunt (WiiU)]

• Copyrighted Songs:
  Some completely fine stages are banned from tournaments, not because of there design, but because there are copyright problems. Nintendo doesn't allow the streaming of those stages, which is a big deal. So we should create a list of songs, which should never be uses. [Example: Kongo Jungle 64 and Skyloft are banned from EVO 2015, because of copyright issues]

• Problematic Imagery:
  This should be self-evidently but for the sake of completeness:
  Stages should never include offensive, inappropriate and copyrighted imagery.

Please add more points to this list or question my suggestions, if you see a problem with them.

 

[Aenglaan]

I like this idea; it adds a lot of variety and takes advantage of a feature that could make for a much more advanced competitive field. I think the key is just to have people play on these stages in a competitive manner and consider what they offer in comparison to the current legal stages.

 

[Balgorxz]

We should really start with the project now. Let us begin with actually asking question and collecting facts.
Let me kick-start the discussion with one question:
What features and elements should be banned from any stage-design and why?
Not everything works in completive play, even so they are fun for other proposes. Some elements are just to overpowered, broken or destroy the flow of a battle by giving someone a big advantage. We should collect those to narrow down all the unfavourable designs. This doesn't include designs or elements, which can be problematic under specific conditions. A straight wall can be problematic, but not in all situations. This discussion is only about the 100% problematic elements!
Important rule of thump! Rules can be broken. Nothing is set in stone. But if people want to break the rules, they should first know, why something got ruled out and need to explain, why it is an expectation of rule.

• Walk-offs:
  Smash is designed around edge-control and some characters have moves, which only exists for recovering. Edge-Guarding, Metoer-Smashes and many tactics become completely useless with Walk-offs and characters with a weak point in recovering become to overpowered (Little Mac). They transform Smash into a different game.
  And then we also have the problem of camping at and locks to the edge of the screen. [Example: Coliseum (WiiU)]
  
  
• Cave of Lives:
  Quote from the Smash-Wiki:
  "A cave of life is an unofficial term for an enclosed area in a stage where characters can survive to much higher percentages than usual. These areas have an impassable platform above the area, and can contain other walls, which allows characters to tech and survive potentially fatal blows. Even without teching, characters will bounce off the ceiling, which absorbs some of the knockback, and allows the character to survive longer than usual.
  
  Caves of life are often considered a degenerative aspect of a stage for competitive play. Besides allowing characters to survive attacks well beyond what is usually possible, they often provide overly powerful camping positions (due to their enclosed nature and the difficulty of KOing characters within them), and they produce an over centralisation on teching (players skilled at teching receive a disproportional advantage from them in comparisons to players who can't tech so well). As such, most stages with them are universally banned from tournaments, and stages with more minor caves of life are rarely legal."
  [Example: Temple (Melee)]
  
  
• Brickwalls:
  A Brickwall as a straight wall with a 90° angle, a direct connection to a ground-space and enough space for at least two characters to stand on this connected ground. This design-element can be exploited to hold an opponent in a long or infinity combo, which they can't escape. This gives an opponent and some characters an too big advantage. [Example: Peach Castle (Melee)]
  
  
• Cages:
  Cages are an combination of Caves of Lives, Brickwalls and a little of Walk-offs.
  Characters will live forever in cages with only slim opportunities to actually KO them. Some characters can catch opponents in infinity or long combos and with no edge or point to recover to, they change the way to play a competitive game of Smash.
  
  
• Giant Stages:
  Really big stages create a lot of problems. Some characters are much faster then others, so they can use the space to circle-jump around them and wait for the timer to run out. Others can spam particles and easily run away, which makes the fights very campy. Also characters take longer to KO. All in all it heavily increases the length of all fights and gives some characters an big advantage. [Example: Pork City (Brawl)]
  
  
• Labyrinths:
  A Labyrinths are many areas, which are separated from and connected to another. Besides creating Cave of Lives, Brickwalls and Cages, Labyrinths give characters more possibility to run away, camp and simply survive. [Example: Temple (Melee)]

• Ferris Wheel Designs:
  Similar to Labyrinths the stage has many different, connected areas, which are just not separated, This design shares the same problems with the Labyrinths. Characters can easily circle-jump through the different areas, camp or in other ways out run characters. [Example: Pac-Mace (3DS)]

• Extreme Centers:
  If a main platform is very high, very low, very far to the sides or a combinations of them, then they have an extreme center. This changes the general distances blast zones in a direction, which strongly changes the way of playing:
  • Stages with a extreme center placed to the sides, will make players start camping on those sides.
    
  • Stages with a extreme center to the top will give characters with great vertical KO-Moves an big advantage and help characters with great recovery to survive Meteor-Smahes too much.
    
  • Stages with a extreme center to the bottom will give characters, who have to recover low, a big disadvantage and increase the usefulness of Meteor-Smashes too much.
  Note: Extreme Centers only includes extremes cases. A slight reposition in a direction could be a fine feature for a stage.
  
  
• VIP Areas:
  Areas on a stage, that can only be reached by a limited number of characters or only with a disadvantage for some characters. One example is the tree on the Duck Hunt-Stage: Little Mac can only reach the higher point, if he uses his Up-B, which gives him a big disadvantage. Characters can also use those areas to circle-jump, camp or waiting for the clock to run out. [Example: Duck-Hunt (WiiU)]

Please add more points to this list or question my suggestions, if you see a problem with them.

So far I think we need these
1.-We should ban everything that could bring us copyright problems, we know how things are today.
for example someone makes a legal equivalent of brawl's MGS stage and it turns to be awesome AAAND then we get sued and our stage becomes ilegal in big tournaments because copyright stuff.

2.-Ban Smashville music

 

[Metal B]

Ah yes, this is really important, i will add it to the list.

 

[Balgorxz]

reminder that not all the music are banned from those stages, just stay away from Rare music,Mixes from skyloft,Earthbound music and Megaman.
All nintendo music should be fine

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Are there actually wall infinites in Smash 4? I'm not aware of any. This should be thoroughly tested before stages with walls are banned.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I'm hoping that many of you are aware of Cobb's AMAZING design theory and use of custom stages. They are so well thought out with the competitive scene in mind. Every angle and platform serves a specific purpose.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLmm1joZm6wUU2ghzGdfVFsA9wykBhDA0H&v=REokAzLMCc8

@ rorycosgrove please please get Cobbs involved in this. He has made a three part series that shows an excellent sense of what makes a stage interesting, competitively viable, and has stages that range from neutrals to strong counter picks.

He looks at his stages very close and analyses the unique advantages and mechanics that other default stages don't offer in smash 4.

I don't know what Cobbs name is on smashboards but he would be an amazing resource for this project.

Yes I've seen his videos and been thoroughly impressed. Thanks for reminding me I have been planning to contact him

 

[Balgorxz]

I wish stages were editable, that would fix 90% of custom stage sharing problems

Yes I've seen his videos and been thoroughly impressed. Thanks for reminding me I have been planning to contact him

damn cobs stages are awesome

 

[rorycosgrove]

I wish stages were editable, that would fix 90% of custom stage sharing problems

It would cause more than it would solve, trust me

 

[Balgorxz]

It would cause more than it would solve, trust me

I've DLd so many stages with banned music or design problems like airdodging through it, and they look and play absolutely amazing there is no way I can manually clone them easily, this is a big issue for me at least.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Sharing stages through Miiverse is super easy, so this will not be counter argument anymore.

The best practice would be to choose one person, who creates a specific Miiverse account, and only have him release stages. Either new stages or new builds of stages. You also don't need to befriend this person, since you can simply follow her. so there is no problem with the friend-list limitation.

So I encountered a problem with this but found a solution.

Problem: A user cannot "re-share" a stage downloaded from Miiverse, meaning that if one account was to be used to release every stage in downloadable form, that user would have to build that stage themselves

Solution: Although Miiverse does not have a "share" function like Facebook, any user with a public profile displays their "Yeah!" list to anyone who views their activity. I'll be using my "Yeahs!" exclusively for stages that are part of the project, so anyone who wants to download the official list can do so from my "Yeah!" list

I've DLd so many stages with banned music or design problems like airdodging through it, and they look and play absolutely amazing there is no way I can manually clone them easily, this is a big issue for me at least.

I understand the problems exist, but for use in tournaments this helps us maintain a clearly defined, consistent list, which is paramount

@ Smearglangelo Whenever you get the chance, I'm ready to download your builds on Miiverse

 

[DC| Reset Bomb Jigglypuff]

As an advocate of more dynamic stages, I feel the idea of recreating past stages, while an interesting idea, may lead to a bit of a slippery slope in more conservative regions. I think while it would bring in players to the idea of custom stages, I feel that regions which prefer non-interactive stages may use the tool to take good layouts on stages they don't like some elements of, basically replacing the native stage with a static stage, which I think damages the meta by not testing the player's knowledge of the stages and ability to adapt while they are playing.

You can't edit a stage you download.

 

[Balgorxz]

So I encountered a problem with this but found a solution.

Problem: A user cannot "re-share" a stage downloaded from Miiverse, meaning that if one account was to be used to release every stage in downloadable form, that user would have to build that stage themselves

Solution: Although Miiverse does not have a "share" function like Facebook, any user with a public profile displays their "Yeah!" list to anyone who views their activity. I'll be using my "Yeahs!" exclusively for stages that are part of the project, so anyone who wants to download the official list can do so from my "Yeah!" list


I understand the problems exist, but for use in tournaments this helps us maintain a clearly defined, consistent list, which is paramount

@ Smearglangelo Whenever you get the chance, I'm ready to download your builds on Miiverse

I mean they can easily make the stage uneditable as an option ;_;

 

[Omegaphoenix]

You can't edit a stage you download.

Irrelevant. It's the idea that we could take a stage like, maybe PS2, Halberd, or Lylat, and say, "this is a nice layout, but I don't like this element, so let's just create a similar version in the stage builder." If these remade stages gained widespread appeal, a lot of more dynamic stages could be replaced with static versions of themselves. Which, as a believer in the value of dynamic stages, would greatly disappoint me

 

[Conda]

Hey all. So I'm going to be producing a video series that spotlights shared custom stages. Remember - your stages won't have a chance of being featured if you don't share them first. Here's a video explaining how the new sharing features work:

 

[clydeaker]

I've loved the idea of remaking past stages in Smash 4 ever sense I saw the GameXplain video where they remade Hyrule Castle (64) and Peach's Castle (64). I've been trying to recreate past stages as accurate as possible. I also try to give stages that were originally banned a second chance by removing, reducing, or changing the hazards. I prefer them to be functionally similar to the original stage rather than visually similar. I created a thread for people to share custom past stages they built here: Wii U (Stage Builder) Past Stage Remakes.

 

[clydeaker]

I'm done the past stages! Here's a list of the stages I made:
- Dreamland (64)
- Pokemon Stadium 1 (Melee)
- Yoshi's Story (Melee)
- Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
- WarioWare, Inc. (Brawl)
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 1
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 2
- Reset Bomb Forest (3DS)
- Wily Castle (3DS)
- Pyrosphere (Wii U)

Spoiler: Preview

Those stages look amazing!

 

[rorycosgrove]

Hey all. So I'm going to be producing a video series that spotlights shared custom stages. Remember - your stages won't have a chance of being featured if you don't share them first. Here's a video explaining how the new sharing features work:

Thanks for getting involved Cobbs! I love your custom Stage work

I've loved the idea of remaking past stages in Smash 4 ever sense I saw the GameXplain video where they remade Hyrule Castle (64) and Peach's Castle (64). I've been trying to recreate past stages as accurate as possible. I also try to give stages that were originally banned a second chance by removing, reducing, or changing the hazards. I prefer them to be functionally similar to the original stage rather than visually similar. I created a thread for people to share custom past stages they built here: Wii U (Stage Builder) Past Stage Remakes.

Great thread! This will certainly help us find accurate remakes

 

[SapphSabre777]

I don't know if this has been tested or discovered, but I went ahead and looked at vertical blast zones and the stage size of small and medium, to see if there was an adverse effect on them.

What I did in the test was construct a small and medium stage consisting of platforms separated by the minimum height (1), then go to training using Ike as myself and against Mario (without DI), and test at what %s an uncharged and charged U-Smash would kill. Finally, after all was done, I would got to Battlefield (base stage and platforms) and Final Destination and compare the %s. The lack of studies of DI weren't important in the test, the differences under the same circumstances were.

Sample:

(HEIGHT) = UNCHARGED KILL %/CHARGED KILL %

Small

-9 = 102/64
-8 = 100/63
-7 = 99/61
-6 = 97/60
-5 = 95/59
-4 = 94/58
-3 = 92/57
-2 = 90/55
-1 = 88/54
0 = 86/52
1 = 85/51
2 = 83/50
3 = 81/48
4 = 79/47

Medium

-4 = 104/65
-3 = 102/64
-2 = 100/63
-1 = 99/61
0 = 97/60
1 = 95/59
2 = 94/58
3 = 92/57
4 = 90/55
5 = 88/54
6 = 86/52
7 = 85/51
8 = 83/50
9 = 81/48

Battlefield (base stage) = 94/58
Battlefield (1st tier platforms) = 86/52
Battlefield (2nd tier platform) = 77/45
FD = 90/55

Assuming the base stage height (I'll call it "Y") is the same for both small and medium stages, the difference in the kill %s is 10-11% earlier for smaller stages. But, during the study, I found a rather intriguing discovery.

At given heights, a medium stage can yield the same kill %s as a small stage, and vice versa. M9 to S3, M0 to S(-6), and so forth. A formula can be yielded, actually, assuming Y is the height of the medium stage:

SSS (Small Stage Size) = Y - 6

Another thing that was interesting is the comparison of the small and medium stages compared to Battlefield and FD. Battlefield is akin to an M2 stage with M6 and (likely) M10 platforms...or an S(-4) stage with S0 and S4 platforms. Same as FD, it can be a M4 or S(-2) stage.

So, now it begs the question: what are the differences?

I don't know about the horizontal blast zones, but this discovery actually changes the whole playing field in terms of making stages. We can mimic the blast zones (at the very least vertically) of stages, and yet build upon it as well. We can create a stage with base-Battlefields %s, but with a wall...the possibilities of creating the perfect stages are nearly upon us, friends!

My apologies for the lengthy post, but it was something to do to pass time for me, and I really would like custom stages pushed forward for competitive Smash. Hope this helps! ^w^

 

[DC| Reset Bomb Jigglypuff]

I don't know if this has been tested or discovered, but I went ahead and looked at vertical blast zones and the stage size of small and medium, to see if there was an adverse effect on them.

What I did in the test was construct a small and medium stage consisting of platforms separated by the minimum height (1), then go to training using Ike as myself and against Mario (without DI), and test at what %s an uncharged and charged U-Smash would kill. Finally, after all was done, I would got to Battlefield (base stage and platforms) and Final Destination and compare the %s. The lack of studies of DI weren't important in the test, the differences under the same circumstances were.

Sample:

(HEIGHT) = UNCHARGED KILL %/CHARGED KILL %

Small

-9 = 102/64
-8 = 100/63
-7 = 99/61
-6 = 97/60
-5 = 95/59
-4 = 94/58
-3 = 92/57
-2 = 90/55
-1 = 88/54
0 = 86/52
1 = 85/51
2 = 83/50
3 = 81/48
4 = 79/47
Medium

-4 = 104/65
-3 = 102/64
-2 = 100/63
-1 = 99/61
0 = 97/60
1 = 95/59
2 = 94/58
3 = 92/57
4 = 90/55
5 = 88/54
6 = 86/52
7 = 85/51
8 = 83/50
9 = 81/48

Battlefield (base stage) = 94/58
Battlefield (1st tier platforms) = 86/52
Battlefield (2nd tier platform) = 77/45
FD = 90/55

Assuming the base stage height (I'll call it "Y") is the same for both small and medium stages, the difference in the kill %s is 10-11% earlier for smaller stages. But, during the study, I found a rather intriguing discovery.

At given heights, a medium stage can yield the same kill %s as a small stage, and vice versa. M9 to S3, M0 to S(-6), and so forth. A formula can be yielded, actually, assuming Y is the height of the medium stage:

SSS (Small Stage Size) = Y - 6

Another thing that was interesting is the comparison of the small and medium stages compared to Battlefield and FD. Battlefield is akin to an M2 stage with M6 and (likely) M10 platforms...or an S(-4) stage with S0 and S4 platforms. Same as FD, it can be a M4 or S(-2) stage.

So, now it begs the question: what are the differences?

I don't know about the horizontal blast zones, but this discovery actually changes the whole playing field in terms of making stages. We can mimic the blast zones (at the very least vertically) of stages, and yet build upon it as well. We can create a stage with base-Battlefields %s, but with a wall...the possibilities of creating the perfect stages are nearly upon us, friends!

My apologies for the lengthy post, but it was something to do to pass time for me, and I really would like custom stages pushed forward for competitive Smash. Hope this helps! ^w^

This is very interesting....

 

[Smearglangelo]

@ Smearglangelo Whenever you get the chance, I'm ready to download your builds on Miiverse

I sent them to you directly today and I'll be sharing them on Miiverse tomorrow.
EDIT: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/UltraKoopaTroopa

 

[rorycosgrove]

I don't know if this has been tested or discovered, but I went ahead and looked at vertical blast zones and the stage size of small and medium, to see if there was an adverse effect on them.

What I did in the test was construct a small and medium stage consisting of platforms separated by the minimum height (1), then go to training using Ike as myself and against Mario (without DI), and test at what %s an uncharged and charged U-Smash would kill. Finally, after all was done, I would got to Battlefield (base stage and platforms) and Final Destination and compare the %s. The lack of studies of DI weren't important in the test, the differences under the same circumstances were.

Sample:

(HEIGHT) = UNCHARGED KILL %/CHARGED KILL %

Small

-9 = 102/64
-8 = 100/63
-7 = 99/61
-6 = 97/60
-5 = 95/59
-4 = 94/58
-3 = 92/57
-2 = 90/55
-1 = 88/54
0 = 86/52
1 = 85/51
2 = 83/50
3 = 81/48
4 = 79/47
Medium

-4 = 104/65
-3 = 102/64
-2 = 100/63
-1 = 99/61
0 = 97/60
1 = 95/59
2 = 94/58
3 = 92/57
4 = 90/55
5 = 88/54
6 = 86/52
7 = 85/51
8 = 83/50
9 = 81/48

Battlefield (base stage) = 94/58
Battlefield (1st tier platforms) = 86/52
Battlefield (2nd tier platform) = 77/45
FD = 90/55

Assuming the base stage height (I'll call it "Y") is the same for both small and medium stages, the difference in the kill %s is 10-11% earlier for smaller stages. But, during the study, I found a rather intriguing discovery.

At given heights, a medium stage can yield the same kill %s as a small stage, and vice versa. M9 to S3, M0 to S(-6), and so forth. A formula can be yielded, actually, assuming Y is the height of the medium stage:

SSS (Small Stage Size) = Y - 6

Another thing that was interesting is the comparison of the small and medium stages compared to Battlefield and FD. Battlefield is akin to an M2 stage with M6 and (likely) M10 platforms...or an S(-4) stage with S0 and S4 platforms. Same as FD, it can be a M4 or S(-2) stage.

So, now it begs the question: what are the differences?

I don't know about the horizontal blast zones, but this discovery actually changes the whole playing field in terms of making stages. We can mimic the blast zones (at the very least vertically) of stages, and yet build upon it as well. We can create a stage with base-Battlefields %s, but with a wall...the possibilities of creating the perfect stages are nearly upon us, friends!

My apologies for the lengthy post, but it was something to do to pass time for me, and I really would like custom stages pushed forward for competitive Smash. Hope this helps! ^w^

This is excellent research, thank you so much! I'm sure this information will be very helpful to our project

I sent them to you directly today and I'll be sharing them on Miiverse tomorrow.
EDIT: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/UltraKoopaTroopa

Excellent thank you! I'm going to begin testing tonight

 

[FS Fantom]

Tester reporting for duty
I'll definitely be discussing these on the old Twitter machine @sbfantom

 

[Purple_Anteater]

I really like this idea and hope to see it implemented soon. I think there is a lot of potential in custom stages. I'd like to know why so many people are against flats with plats? How different does the level need to be exactly before its considered "different enough" to not be redundant? What about asymmetrical stages? How high should the platforms be? How large? The measurements for the stage? How low the ceiling? How wide the sides in relation to the stage, ect. How mhard would it be to get everyone to agree on some universal measurements?

Examples: Low ceiling = 24 squares up from the stage, Mid ceiling = 32 squares, High = 38, ect. In this case it would be increments of 6, which is a noticeable change from stage to stage. It could work this way from the edges of the stage to the side blats zones as well.

Platforms could universally be set to 6 spaces wide and minimum 5 spaces off the ground, similar to battlefield

Having universal agreed upon measurements for stages would create a way for people to start creating. Setting these sorts of limitations could keep all sorts of different stages uniform, so even if you've never played on the stage before you know that every stage described as "low ceiling, mid sides" would have the same kill percents as all other stages with those measurements. Same goes for platforms, you know how they work. They're all 6 spaces wide and at least 5 spaces apart vertically, so you can just look at the placement of the platforms and you already know how to play the stage just because all stages are built the same.

I think it could be something worth looking into. And once you have these rules set in place you can start breaking them to make more unique levels.