Custom Moveset Project Releases Summer 2015 Edition

[Code Bread]

How come people are saying that having customs on automatically puts people with bad customs down on tiers? It seems like people are saying

DK without customs: C tier
Ness without customs: B tier
DK with customs: A tier

DK jumps over Ness automatically with customs. I know this example doesn't exactly make sense (I'm only using it to explain what I mean), but it looks like that's the general consensus. How come characters with viable customs automatically become more viable than characters without; can't there be cases where a character's customs make them just good enough to compete with a good character without customs? I assume it's because some customs allow for better matchups but are there any other reasons I'm missing?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Also, not every WiiU smash player has the 3DS version. So how are they going to do that? That makes it unfair toward others.

What happens if a TO doesn't have a 3DS and wants to host Smash tournaments? I guess they're just screwed. That is one of the biggest issues with the project TBH, bunches of people just plain don't have smash 3DS and can't afford a system/cartridge to do so. This is probably the best way to implement customs on for now, but it has issues for sure.

 

[Raziek]

What happens if a TO doesn't have a 3DS and wants to host Smash tournaments? I guess they're just screwed. That is one of the biggest issues with the project TBH, bunches of people just plain don't have smash 3DS and can't afford a system/cartridge to do so. This is probably the best way to implement customs on for now, but it has issues for sure.

I am willing to bet you that at MOST 2% of Smash 4 TOs don't have a 3DS.

If there are reasons to quibble with it, this isn't one of them.

 

[Kurogal]

What happens if a TO doesn't have a 3DS and wants to host Smash tournaments? I guess they're just screwed. That is one of the biggest issues with the project TBH, bunches of people just plain don't have smash 3DS and can't afford a system/cartridge to do so. This is probably the best way to implement customs on for now, but it has issues for sure.

While I think it'd be odd if somebody could afford a Wii U, GC adapter, a venue, seating, food, and everything else one would need to effectively host a tourney but not a 3DS or the means to quickly or idly farm up the customs like a 12$ Game Stop controller with a toggle turbo and a single good rubber band for the A button-

It seems even more unlikely that there won't least one person who plans to attend that any event that has more that than just a few people coming wouldn't have a 3DS.
So the TO could just reach out to their scene for help, and just ask somebody to come over early to set up the custom sets.

And if there's somehow no local scene to reach out to, it's not like the tourney being non customs would really affect it.

 

[Seiniyta]

They'll be able to tell if you have equipment on by the little icon that's only there if you have equipment on.

Not if the stats themselves have a value between 0-10, then it doesn't display. this way you can have like smooth lander on, but the other items averaging the stats so out that it still appears as if there's no items.

 

[Piford]

How come people are saying that having customs on automatically puts people with bad customs down on tiers? It seems like people are saying

DK without customs: C tier
Ness without customs: B tier
DK with customs: A tier

DK jumps over Ness automatically with customs. I know this example doesn't exactly make sense (I'm only using it to explain what I mean), but it looks like that's the general consensus. How come characters with viable customs automatically become more viable than characters without; can't there be cases where a character's customs make them just good enough to compete with a good character without customs? I assume it's because some customs allow for better matchups but are there any other reasons I'm missing?

Balance is relative. While overall more characters will be viable with customs, if some characters become better others technically become worse. Like someone has to be the worst character in the game; it's just that in customs the worst character is better than the worst character without customs. And of course characters who benefit the least from customs are the most likely to drop in the tier list.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I keep hearing how Smash 4 is going to die with customs. Yet, I also heard Smash 4 was going to die on its own even before then.

When it comes down to it, I rather smash 4 die with people experimenting by trying to make this the best game they can.

Now, I don't think it is going to die as easily as people say it will, but just something to think about.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

As a player whose main stands to gain zero from customs, I can still confidently say that I love this project.

As a fellow supporter of custom moves, I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Code Bread]

Balance is relative. While overall more characters will be viable with customs, if some characters become better others technically become worse. Like someone has to be the worst character in the game; it's just that in customs the worst character is better than the worst character without customs. And of course characters who benefit the least from customs are the most likely to drop in the tier list.

I get that as some characters get better, others get worse. But why is it an automatic rule that the worst character is better than the worst character without customs? Is there no potential for a vanilla character to be better than a character with its best customs? I would argue that a vanilla Diddy (who in this hypothetical situation has no viable customs) still bodies an Ike with his best customs.

I feel like I'm misreading your post.

 

[Piford]

I get that as some characters get better, others get worse. But why is it an automatic rule that the worst character is better than the worst character without customs? Is there no potential for a vanilla character to be better than a character with its best customs? I would argue that a vanilla Diddy (who in this hypothetical situation has no viable customs) still bodies an Ike with his best customs.

I feel like I'm misreading your post.

Yeah you misunderstood sorry. Every character gets better with customs, and the best custom versions of themselves would almost always beat the default versions (save a few exceptions where default is best).

So the worst character without customs might be the Mii Swordfighter. Now the worst character with customs might be Little Mac. Custom Little Mac is better than Default Mii Sword Fighter.

 

[CitrusRain]

So why are there 10 for each now? I had been gradually adding these to my 3DS, as they were before this release, and I had a few characters that I was happily keeping slots open for my own experimental purposes.

And that's alot of changes to make, does it matter if I don't have them in order? (due to some of Mario's still being used, and some new ones being inserted in such a way that the slot is not the same one)

 

[Code Bread]

Yeah you misunderstood sorry. Every character gets better with customs, and the best custom versions of themselves would almost always beat the default versions (save a few exceptions where default is best).

So the worst character without customs might be the Mii Swordfighter. Now the worst character with customs might be Little Mac. Custom Little Mac is better than Default Mii Sword Fighter.

Ah, I see what you're saying now.

 

[Merfect]

Loving this new list of moves. Though, I'm not going to fiddle with those Mii sets; there's just too many of them. If people want to use Miis on my WiiU, they can bring their own.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Not if the stats themselves have a value between 0-10, then it doesn't display. this way you can have like smooth lander on, but the other items averaging the stats so out that it still appears as if there's no items.

And of the hundreds of people probably there, no ones gonna notice that all of your aerials suddenly have Melee physics on them?

 

[Sideslick]

you can, you just need to upload them on your 3DS or make them on the console.

EVO specifically doesn't allow uploading to consoles. This project is the only option for customs.

 

[John12346]

A bit of clarification needs to be made, I suppose.

First off, as well researched and planned out as it is, these lists of custom sets are nothing more than simple recommendations. The point of the project is to make it so TOs can, if they want, prepare these sets on a 3DS and import it to WiiUs so they can cut down on the number of times someone will need to halt the tournament in order to import their own set. TOs could simply bring in completely blank WiiUs and allow entrants to use their own custom sets via 3DS imports, but of course it wouldn't be as time friendly for the tournament as if someone used the moveset project instead.

And with that in mind, for tournaments that aren't on the international scale of EVO, TOs should always allow imports of custom sets that do not exist on our project. We expressly organized the sets in order of priority so the more "niche" sets were at the end of the line and could be deleted at any time for the sake of allowing on-site importing.

And the last thing I want to mention here, as far as trying to sneak in negative equipment to obtain bonus effects, not only are all of the effects immediately noticeable, but imported sets indicate which 3DS the set came from. And... I've mentioned this before, but if someone was actually scummy enough to do something like that, I would seriously consider that grounds for blacklisting from future tournaments. I mean, that's like a direct attempt at sabotaging an event, so it makes sense.

More details and concerns are addressed in the actual release thread, so you should all give it a read when you get a chance.

 

[Zano]

BOY THESE CUSTOM MOVE MATCHES AT KTAR ARE SO EXCITING, I'M GLAD THEY ADD SUCH DEPTH AND COMPLEXITY TO THIS GAME!

 

[Protom]

YES!!
FOX 1331 IS PRESERVED
:-D

 

[Jigglypwnz14]

Somebody give me one GOOD reason why custom moves should be turned off. Oh, thats right, there are no good reasons.

 

[Yikarur]

I am willing to bet you that at MOST 2% of Smash 4 TOs don't have a 3DS.

If there are reasons to quibble with it, this isn't one of them.

Lol are you serious?
- you need far more than 1 3DS for a bigger tournament
- setting this up is an enormous work
- how can you seriously think people have a 3DS, with the game, with all customs unlocked? Most people don't.

The more I think about this project the more I think this project has no future - no even farther, this Project might destroy Smash4's professionality.
To base a ruleset depending on subjective individuals putting something together is one thing. But being required to use a cheating device to get things done and to need the hardware is extremely flawed.
This whole project is not coherent. It excludes options you should've have. It excludes people that are playing differently.
It's extremely unprofessional and as much as I love what customs at to thr game, after long thinking, I'm against this project because it hurts Smash 4 as a professional and competitive game.

 

[John12346]

Again, I'd like to reiterate the fact that, at least in my eyes, this kind of project exists merely as a recommendation for TOs so they can -likely- cover all entrant needs for custom sets before the tournament actually begins, and imports during tourney time are far less likely to happen. Keep in mind that non-national scale tournaments should ideally be allowing imports onsite in case a player's own custom set was not covered by this project.

I hold that it's just as viable to hold a customs legal tournament as a TO by bringing in a few completely blank Wii Us and allowing people to import sets via 3DS. It's certainly possible, although it's not expedient on time, to say the least...

And... I guess this is important to cover, but while it may be expedient, timewise, to use cheating devices and other such tools to unlock custom specials quickly on a 3DS, this project in no way endorses the use of any of that. We left up a GameXplain guide explaining how to get custom parts in Classic Mode consistently via the home menu trick, but that's about as far as we went as far as explaining how to unlock custom specials faster.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I hold that it's just as viable to hold a customs legal tournament as a TO by bringing in a few completely blank Wii Us and allowing people to import sets via 3DS. It's certainly possible, although it's not expedient on time, to say the least...

What about people who don't own Smash 3DS? There are PLENTY of people who couldn't do that properly simply because they lack a console. Asking folks to bring their own customs could make this even worse, requiring a console and game just to have all of your options to compete.

I know personally I don't have smash 3DS and being disabled and on a fixed income it's not likely I'll be getting one either. What would you tell me to do in that situation?

For hosting too, what would you tell me to do? Without a 3DS to constantly transfer customs onto Wii U systems brought to the event I'd have no shot at properly running customs on (yet many people want this to be the standard for competition).

This increases the initial investment needed to compete in smash by a LOT. There was a time when people literally didn't own the game, brought controllers, and sometime even won tournaments. Now I have to expect someone to probably own two consoles or grind for hours upon hours to attempt to even get to practice these things for tournaments and that kind sucks

 

[ShadowMasterFluffy]

To all who are saying custom moves are "uncompetitive", pokemon has a competitive meta game, and it only has custom move sets, sure to some comparing a turn-based game to a fighting game isn't that valid, but it still is notable that there is one out there that runs just as fine as smash that works.

 

[John12346]

Unfortunately, the best solution that can be suggested for a tournament where the Wii Us are blank, the TO doesn't have a 100% 3DS, and you don't have a 3DS period, is to find someone who possesses a 3DS and request that they create and send over a set for you.

At a customs legal tournament, you are guaranteed to find people like this of course, because most people do own Smash 3DS and are going to have a reasonable degree of customs unlocked. Of course, you then run into the issue that maybe all of the 3DS systems on the tournament grounds are not 100%, and do not contain the specials for the custom set you'd like to make.

I do find this scenario to be quite unlikely, as the people who actually do own Smash 4 are going to grind to a pretty large degree to get those customs, on both Wii U and 3DS... but I do agree the scenario you presented is viable to occur as well. If all else fails, I would just say switch over to a customs banned tournament, and, as a TO, encourage your player base to help support customs tournaments in your scene by going out and trying to unlock more of them.

 

[Codaption]

What about people who don't own Smash 3DS? There are PLENTY of people who couldn't do that properly simply because they lack a console. Asking folks to bring their own customs could make this even worse, requiring a console and game just to have all of your options to compete.

I know personally I don't have smash 3DS and being disabled and on a fixed income it's not likely I'll be getting one either. What would you tell me to do in that situation?

For hosting too, what would you tell me to do? Without a 3DS to constantly transfer customs onto Wii U systems brought to the event I'd have no shot at properly running customs on (yet many people want this to be the standard for competition).

This increases the initial investment needed to compete in smash by a LOT. There was a time when people literally didn't own the game, brought controllers, and sometime even won tournaments. Now I have to expect someone to probably own two consoles or grind for hours upon hours to attempt to even get to practice these things for tournaments and that kind sucks

....Doesn't that help his point? The customs project makes it so that you would be less likely to have to have a 3ds to unlock and create your ideal custom set (which seems to be your problem), because the custom set would likely already be on the Wii U.

Lol are you serious?
- you need far more than 1 3DS for a bigger tournament
- setting this up is an enormous work
- how can you seriously think people have a 3DS, with the game, with all customs unlocked? Most people don't.

The more I think about this project the more I think this project has no future - no even farther, this Project might destroy Smash4's professionality.
To base a ruleset depending on subjective individuals putting something together is one thing. But being required to use a cheating device to get things done and to need the hardware is extremely flawed.
This whole project is not coherent. It excludes options you should've have. It excludes people that are playing differently.
It's extremely unprofessional and as much as I love what customs at to thr game, after long thinking, I'm against this project because it hurts Smash 4 as a professional and competitive game.

....Again, a reason to use the customs project. With it, very few people would need a 3ds (because most people would just use the sets on the Wii U) and that sort of situation would be one in a million. Without it, EVERY player would need to bring a 3ds, and the situation suddenly becomes much more common.

The point of the customs project is to make it so fewer people have to bring a 3ds to tourneys, not more.

 

[Trunks159]

That actually doesn't make a single shred of sense.

Maybe not to you.
For example, saying you hate a certain race of people is like saying you just hate all people in general. Theyre all equal.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

lol wait, so individuals aren't even allowed to use the customs they want? They have to pick from pre-established sets?
Wow, this project sucks.

Hey man, talk to Mr.Wizard on twitter about it if you are really that annoyed lol.

 

[DrRek]

This may be a dumb question, BUT its this the customs being used at EVO?

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

looks awesome!

 

[Pepperz]

The intentions are good with the project but I get the feeling like let's just give the big F U to anybody else that doesn't use these pre set builds.

Don't give me that these are the best builds cuz a few people on the board talked about them. I had to create a ruckus in the village board just so I can have one build with balloon trip while every other build automatically gets extreme balloon trip. I'm just one person.

A poll was given to the village board voting on sets. The top vote getter in sets was 8 total votes but it's going to be used to determine a tournament for over a thousand people. And those 8 votes were t even all top players. Just regular people that visit the forum. It's like calling eventhub tier list the official list. Everybody knows that's BS.

My biggest gripe is that this will force the meta game instead of letting it happen naturally. We are going to push it into a certain direction cuz we limit ourselves with the availability of customs.

 

[LiteralGrill]

This may be a dumb question, BUT its this the customs being used at EVO?

As of right now, yes.

 

[gamegod7]

I thought that you were supposed to leave 2 slots open for people who want to make their own set?

 

[LiteralGrill]

I thought that you were supposed to leave 2 slots open for people who want to make their own set?

EVO wont allow that to be done since they wont allow things to be uploaded to the console during tournament.

 

[gamegod7]

EVO wont allow that to be done since they wont allow things to be uploaded to the console during tournament.

I see. Do you think that other tournaments will allow the two open slots for making your own fighter, or that having all premade sets will be the accepted use of customs? I feel like not being able to have a choice in what customs you want kind of defeats the purpose. These sets are all pretty good, but everyone should have a chance to make what they want and what they feel is best.

 

[Seiniyta]

I see. Do you think that other tournaments will allow the two open slots for making your own fighter, or that having all premade sets will be the accepted use of customs? I feel like not being able to have a choice in what customs you want kind of defeats the purpose. These sets are all pretty good, but everyone should have a chance to make what they want and what they feel is best.

Depends entirely on the size of the tournament. in a smaller tournament, weeklies/monthlies it's fine. But when you have to take care of 64 setups. There's always that one guy that might muck things up, overwriting one of the preset 8 ones etc.

 

[Flawed]

"CUSTOMS WILL SAVE SMASH 4"

say the smash 4 fans because they obviously don't like their game already.

 

[Zzuxon]

The intentions are good with the project but I get the feeling like let's just give the big F U to anybody else that doesn't use these pre set builds.

Don't give me that these are the best builds cuz a few people on the board talked about them. I had to create a ruckus in the village board just so I can have one build with balloon trip while every other build automatically gets extreme balloon trip. I'm just one person.

A poll was given to the village board voting on sets. The top vote getter in sets was 8 total votes but it's going to be used to determine a tournament for over a thousand people. And those 8 votes were t even all top players. Just regular people that visit the forum. It's like calling eventhub tier list the official list. Everybody knows that's BS.

My biggest gripe is that this will force the meta game instead of letting it happen naturally. We are going to push it into a certain direction cuz we limit ourselves with the availability of customs.

This is only for large tournaments like Evo for which logistics are an extreme concern. in most smaller tournaments TOs would be encouraged to let you quickly make your own custom set, either on the console or through 3ds transfer.

 

[Kingslime301]

DOES THAT MEAN MIIS ARE AVAILBLE IN THAT TOURNAMENT?!

 

[Codaption]

The intentions are good with the project but I get the feeling like let's just give the big F U to anybody else that doesn't use these pre set builds.

Don't give me that these are the best builds cuz a few people on the board talked about them. I had to create a ruckus in the village board just so I can have one build with balloon trip while every other build automatically gets extreme balloon trip. I'm just one person.

A poll was given to the village board voting on sets. The top vote getter in sets was 8 total votes but it's going to be used to determine a tournament for over a thousand people. And those 8 votes were t even all top players. Just regular people that visit the forum. It's like calling eventhub tier list the official list. Everybody knows that's BS.

My biggest gripe is that this will force the meta game instead of letting it happen naturally. We are going to push it into a certain direction cuz we limit ourselves with the availability of customs.

These AREN'T the best builds, and the makers of the project would never say they were. Ampharos himself had to make some of these builds because the forums for their characters were dead! These are only suggestions, as has been said multiple times, and rather than being made to be the best they're made to include all of the sets that people might want to use in tourneys. That way we can actually find OUT which ones are the best through practice, instead of random guesswork. It in no way forces the meta, the entire point is to experiment.

...And....how does it screw over people with their own custom builds? The project specifically leaves two spots open for the people who want to use their own builds. The only tournaments that wouldn't allow to utilize these spots are the big ones like EVO (which probably wouldn't even bother with customs at all if not for an undertaking like this.)

 

[pokemario]

Why? God i hate custom moves.

Agreed, some customs are just OP. Keeping things simpler and more predictable is better, this isn't sarcasm, this is what I believe.

The only thing worse would be equipment...