Meta Custom Moveset Project: Mega Man

[Anomilus]

Well I got the discussion rolling in the Custom Moveset Project thread, and it's pretty much a sure thing that 2222 + 3333 slot reservation will now only be for when they're actually wanted. Otherwise we likely will now have slots 7 & 8 to suggest additional guaranteed sets. Slots 9 & 10 will be free slots to be overwritten but can still hold two additional unorthodox sets. Basically those are left up to the TO.

In any case I do think a Shadow Blade and Hyper Bomb set should be given those slots. Basically anything other than more Metal Blade sets. At least for now until we're all absolutely positive we want to centralize MM's custom game around it and put the other two neutrals to the side.

I've had some interest in Tornado Hold myself and think it's underexplored, so more research is welcomed.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

Too poor for a capture card! If I put one up it'll probably just end up being another wall of text

Check out this guy: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2vguqy/send_me_your_replays_ill_put_them_on_youtube/
I don't think anyone will mind the wall of text, we all just want to learn!

 

[ENKER]

I love Hyper Bomb and know of some techs with it that are fun. Maybe I should make a video and/or thread?

 

[mega4000]

In that case, our current tornado hold set is still inefficient.

yeah, that's right or current custom sets sucks, specially the 1113 and 1121. Tornado Hold should never be without danger wrap, NEVER!

I really don't want six variations to all involve using Metal Blades. That we're promoting such centralization around the move means Shadow Blades/Hyper Bomb aren't going to get the attention they deserve. Heck, Shadow Blades already is least explored of the three Neutrals. Yeah it's straightforward and has less range and damage than MB. I just like having the option of not potentially handing my opponent my item, instead having a projectile that can still hold them down but is more spammable .

Instead it's "how can we fit all our other moves around Metal Blades". Oh, rather not use MB? Too bad, out of luck, BYO3DS.

At this point I'm kind of hoping we can be allowed slots 7 and 8. Right now they're apparently reserved for people to take customs for a test run, but I feel people can do that on their own system on their own time, or at the least not every system needs to be given that set.

Shadow Blade is for close range, not long range. You win the adventage to go for easy grabes if your opponent isn't fast to get in, but you loose every metal blade mind game with z-drop, the z-drop combos and the adventage of your opponent not being able to grab when he gets the item. A faster character like little mac or rosalina with her dash attack will still be able to get in with his dash attack the moment you start throwing the shadow blade. I find shadow blade best used as this:
shadow blade straight foward, going for a grab
shadow blade straight foward, danger wrap.
shadow blade in the air angled down.

Since shadow blade is a close range weapon, I recommend using it with tornado hold, danger wrap and plant/skull barrier. Using it with rush is pointless, because Metal Blade is 100% superior combined with rush, oh and never combine that with crash bomb, you lost your spam game the moment you ditched metal blade.

Too poor for a capture card! If I put one up it'll probably just end up being another wall of text

I'm expecting your tornado hold + danger wrap guide too! If you need help, just ask me!

 

[GeneralLedge]

Since shadow blade is a close range weapon, I recommend using it with tornado hold, danger wrap and plant/skull barrier.

Can confirm, this is pretty much my personal Megaman set (I opt for Skull Barrier).

Shadow Blade is tricky, but pretty fun to use. Plus it can set up for a Shoryuken, or a grab, or tornado hold... And it covers itself from grabs in most cases (Captain Falcon's dash grab being an obvious exception).

I'm having a lot of trouble finding utility for Hyper Bomb, personally. Very hard to use unless it's exclusively a z-drop item, but Metal Blade seems to do that a bit better.

 

[mega4000]

Can confirm, this is pretty much my personal Megaman set (I opt for Skull Barrier).

Shadow Blade is tricky, but pretty fun to use. Plus it can set up for a Shoryuken, or a grab, or tornado hold... And it covers itself from grabs in most cases (Captain Falcon's dash grab being an obvious exception).

I'm having a lot of trouble finding utility for Hyper Bomb, personally. Very hard to use unless it's exclusively a z-drop item, but Metal Blade seems to do that a bit better.

when you use plant barrier, I suggest using right after connecting the tornado hold, that way you will fall to the ground and have no lag, plus by being near to your opponent you will get a free grab. Remember that using b in the air gives you phantom lag so don't jump until the shield is gone in order to cancel it with a pellet.
Metal Blade for me is considered the superior weapon because the skilled stuff you can do is limitless and in the future believe me, it will be more and more great(Hyper Bomb, maybe will be epic too). For Hyper Bomb, the weapon is to slow it bothers, so unless you really know how to protect yourself you will get frustrate against rushing opponets.
I suggest playing with this combos:
Hyper Bomb+ Crash Bomb + Tornado Hold + Plant Barrier/Skull Barrier(Orange Color)
The crash Bomb is to spam, and when they get one stuck to them, use the hyper bomb to put pressure on them. The tornado is to protect yourself from rushing opponets, and the plant barrier is to abuse the grab when they rush in. I know I said never use tornado withour danger wrap, but this combo is the only thing where I think the crash bomb+ tornado hold are viable.
Second combo: danger wrap + hyper bomb + Leaf Shield + Tornado Hold.

Maybe you are asking: How do you use the bomb? well, full hop diagonal down/foward to protect yourself. Abuse from full hop diagonal down, trust me is the best thing from this move and you can retreat like no tomorrow. It also grants you a free bomb catch.

 

[p1ay6ack]

ive found 1323 and 1313 to be my most optimal choices atm
i'm still testing out shadow blade, but tornado hold can lead up to interesting combos, and the combo of tornado hold and danger warp is too good. at low percentages, it comes out quick and your opponent falls in the the trajectory to get hit.

 

[mega4000]

ive found 1323 and 1313 to be my most optimal choices atm
i'm still testing out shadow blade, but tornado hold can lead up to interesting combos, and the combo of tornado hold and danger warp is too good. at low percentages, it comes out quick and your opponent falls in the the trajectory to get hit.

this by a mile. Mr Wizard said we need 10 preset list and we are screwing everything by not havin 1323 and 1322. Pls update the list to have this sets:
1323
1322
1313
1312

I don't care about the rest of the sets, but these 4 are a must. Pls people, you need to understand the potential of the tornado hold, danger wrap plant barrier combo. Don't waste slots in sets that are gonna get destroyed by top tier characters, Danger Wrap is a must, ice slasher and beat are useless compared to top tier characters. Crash bomb only works for a few matchups, but you have skull shield to cover that. Pls understand that these 4 sets are a must.

 

[ChopperDave]

I'm still not really clear on why Plant Barrier works so great with either Danger Wrap or Tornado Hold. What does it bring to the table that Leaf Shield doesn't?

 

[mega4000]

I'm still not really clear on why Plant Barrier works so great with either Danger Wrap or Tornado Hold. What does it bring to the table that Leaf Shield doesn't?

the leafs doesn't dissapair and expand with plant barrier, so after conecting a tornado hold, use your down b and go near your enemy with a dodge. If he doesn't run away, he will get hit, and your leafs will be there, you will get a free grab, and he can't punish you. There are a lot of situations when I've pull this with leaf shield and a simple smash has punished me, but with plant barrier is a whole different story, because even if the smash, they can't punish me. Also, standing in the corner with your shield while having plant barrier is an epic edge guard tool, while leaf shield can't do that very good. Even Little mac foward smash fears the plant barrier.

 

[Greward]

We gotta get a full list before 3/27 so it goes to EVO.

Imo:

Metal blade is the best neutral B in a competitive environment, probably always.
Danger Wrap >>>> Crash bomb >> Ice slasher. Ice slasher might be situationally useful in some matchups but it's not worth a slot imo. Danger Wrap is fundamental and I'd probably use it in all sets. Crash bomber is an average at best move, but I can see some people wanting it over danger wrap in some matchups.
All 3 up specials have their place. Beat is probably the best because rush coil is a lackluster recovery (although it takes some time to get used to Beat). I'm not used to Tornado Hold but I have seen a lot going for him. It just makes us have one of the worst recoveries in the game tho.
Not sure about down B. Skull barrier is useful in certain matchups and I think it should be a thing. I prefer leaf shield over flower shield but I'm not sure if it is truly better. I have a better control over the hitbox with the leaf shield and I also like the fact that throwing it is a viable option.
I think what we should really determine is whether leaf shield or flower shield are better.

So I'd say

1311 or 1313
1312
1323 or 1321
1322
1331 or 1333
1332

If we get 2 extra slots we might fit Crash Bomber in there. Although I believe if someone prefers Crash Bomber is probably because they haven't played with Danger Wrap enough lol

 

[-Kagato-]

I use 1132.

Forgive me but I just don't see Danger Wrap as helpful as Crash Bomb for me. For anti-air, that's what angled blades and U-Air are for. I've found Crash Bomb forcing a player to react in a certain way more beneficial. Shield pressure, extra damage, setups for other attacks, or just as a means to get away seem more practical to me.

Also, Skull Barrier helps against other projectile users, though I do agree if you're going to use Leaf Shield, Plant Man is just a better choice.

 

[p1ay6ack]

I'm still not really clear on why Plant Barrier works so great with either Danger Wrap or Tornado Hold. What does it bring to the table that Leaf Shield doesn't?

I was playing a popular streamer yesterday using plant shield +danger warp. lemme tell you this was an awesome ledgeguard combo. while leaf shield does give pressure at the ledge, simply by just standing there while leafshield is out, plantshield gives *even more pressure* by its extended hitboxes. my opponent was playing falco and was about to grab the ledge, and the extended hitbox on plantshield hit him before he grabbed the ledge, and he went into free fall, and was forced to recover vertically. do you know wat i followed that up with? it was danger wrap and he was blown up in the air, then i followed up with another danger wrap sealing the deal. i mean, leaf shield is good all around, but if you want to play close and personal, plant shield by far gives way more pressure and unique kill options

 

[---]

We gotta get a full list before 3/27 so it goes to EVO.

That's the deadline? If so I'll start a new poll in a couple days.

 

[ChopperDave]

I was playing a popular streamer yesterday using plant shield +danger warp. lemme tell you this was an awesome ledgeguard combo. while leaf shield does give pressure at the ledge, simply by just standing there while leafshield is out, plantshield gives *even more pressure* by its extended hitboxes. my opponent was playing falco and was about to grab the ledge, and the extended hitbox on plantshield hit him before he grabbed the ledge, and he went into free fall, and was forced to recover vertically. do you know wat i followed that up with? it was danger wrap and he was blown up in the air, then i followed up with another danger wrap sealing the deal. i mean, leaf shield is good all around, but if you want to play close and personal, plant shield by far gives way more pressure and unique kill options

Mhm. I generally find Plant Barrier's slower startup time and fewer active frames make it harder to use competitively than Leaf Shield, and the diminished range on the toss hurts its usefulness too. There's no denying that it does a better job disrupting when you have it up, though, and it may be better for stuffing ledge recoveries. I may try bringing it back into the lab and seeing how it goes.

One interesting thing I noticed in the hitbox thread is that Plant Barrier flowers have a 45• knockback angle, while Leaf Shield leaves have the 361• "Sakurai angle." @Hatsune Miku, do you have any thoughts on what practical difference this would have in how the hitboxes behave, given that both PB and LS have pretty low base knockback and knockback growth?

 

[Locke 06]

Forgive me but I just don't see Danger Wrap as helpful as Crash Bomb for me. For anti-air, that's what angled blades and U-Air are for. I've found Crash Bomb forcing a player to react in a certain way more beneficial. Shield pressure, extra damage, setups for other attacks, or just as a means to get away seem more practical to me.

I can't get into danger wrap at all either. It just doesn't fit into what I like to do as Mega Man, which is zone horizontally, which is also why I can't get into Hyper Bomb or Shadow Blade. Crash bomb and ice slasher allow me to keep pressure on my opponent at all times at all ranges in conjunction with metal blade. Especially when a metal blade gets stolen and held on to, it's nice to have something to poke at long range. The lack of horizontal range on Danger Wrap is a huge turn off for me. Maybe someday I'll get used to it and give it another chance, but I feel like I've played with it enough to realize it's not for me. I love me some Ice Slasher, but that's no surprise.

I also don't see Danger Wrap as a better juggle tool than UAir. SHFF UAir is so good with less lag than Danger Wrap. Danger Wrap has the benefit of doing more damage and KO'ing, but UAir air dodge traps lead to a very good situation.

 

[Kronos2560]

What the hell? Why is everything so uniform? I really wanted to use 3322. I play megaman a lot in tournaments, (usually placing top 5) using the default list, and I am a firm believer that 3322 could be his strongest set. I don't want to be confined to this crappy list just because random people say so.

 

[ChopperDave]

What the hell? Why is everything so uniform? I really wanted to use 3322. I play megaman a lot in tournaments, (usually placing top 5) using the default list, and I am a firm believer that 3322 could be his strongest set. I don't want to be confined to this crappy list just because random people say so.

You're... not? The point of this project is to identify the most commonly-used custom load outs to save TOs time.

If you have a unique loadout that you like to use, there's nothing stopping you from using it, just like there's nothing stopping you from using a custom controls setup. The Standard Custom Moveset Project explicitly leaves open two character slots for this very reason.

 

[Kronos2560]

You're... not? The point of this project is to identify the most commonly-used custom load outs to save TOs time.

If you have a unique loadout that you like to use, there's nothing stopping you from using it, just like there's nothing stopping you from using a custom controls setup. The Standard Custom Moveset Project explicitly leaves open two character slots for this very reason.

Dude, believe me, I'm with ya. TO's work way too hard, and easing their process is something I would make a top priority.

However, I saw that EVO will NOT be permitting custom loadouts. If you could prove me otherwise, then please do so because it would put my mind at rest.

At work, so can't go I depth as to why I like 3322 so much, but I'll describe it in length later.

 

[mega4000]

I use 1132.

Forgive me but I just don't see Danger Wrap as helpful as Crash Bomb for me. For anti-air, that's what angled blades and U-Air are for. I've found Crash Bomb forcing a player to react in a certain way more beneficial. Shield pressure, extra damage, setups for other attacks, or just as a means to get away seem more practical to me.

Also, Skull Barrier helps against other projectile users, though I do agree if you're going to use Leaf Shield, Plant Man is just a better choice.

crash bomb can't kill opponents, everyone in the tournament scene is used to crash bomb and knows how to take adventage against you, specially fast characters. Danger Wrap kills, stop diddys monkey flip and every single aerial aproach, punish ledge stands even the sheik one without risking you and can be used in a lot of more ways than crash bomb. Sure crash bomb is nice because you are used to it and in some fights like villager and pacman you would think is the way to go, but for that you have skull barrier and when you fight someone who is actually good and doesn't die with anything megaman does and punishes you after every lag you have, you will understand why danger wrap is the best. Don't ever try to fight rosalina with crash bomb, a good rosalina knows how to deal that and crash bomb doesn't kill nor does a lot of damage, while danger wrap negates her aerial game and kill her way more easy.

I can't get into danger wrap at all either. It just doesn't fit into what I like to do as Mega Man, which is zone horizontally, which is also why I can't get into Hyper Bomb or Shadow Blade. Crash bomb and ice slasher allow me to keep pressure on my opponent at all times at all ranges in conjunction with metal blade. Especially when a metal blade gets stolen and held on to, it's nice to have something to poke at long range. The lack of horizontal range on Danger Wrap is a huge turn off for me. Maybe someday I'll get used to it and give it another chance, but I feel like I've played with it enough to realize it's not for me. I love me some Ice Slasher, but that's no surprise.

I also don't see Danger Wrap as a better juggle tool than UAir. SHFF UAir is so good with less lag than Danger Wrap. Danger Wrap has the benefit of doing more damage and KO'ing, but UAir air dodge traps lead to a very good situation.

It is a better juggle tool because it can be combined with tornado hold and punish ledges like crazy. You need to start using more your pellets and angled down air metal blade if you really need good horizontal game. Everything you do with crash bomb can be punished by a faster character with his dash attack because of the lag that the move has. In a world full of diddys, mastering pellets and not using your horizontal b spam is a must, because the lag of the b moves can be your doom. Always use metal blade in the air unless you are far far away or you know how to use it as an item. Never use your b moves near your opponent without jumping.

 

[Locke 06]

crash bomb can't kill opponents, everyone in the tournament scene is used to crash bomb and knows how to take adventage against you, specially fast characters. Danger Wrap kills, stop diddys monkey flip and every single aerial aproach, punish ledge stands even the sheik one without risking you and can be used in a lot of more ways than crash bomb. Sure crash bomb is nice because you are used to it and in some fights like villager and pacman you would think is the way to go, but for that you have skull barrier and when you fight someone who is actually good and doesn't die with anything megaman does and punishes you after every lag you have, you will understand why danger wrap is the best. Don't ever try to fight rosalina with crash bomb, a good rosalina knows how to deal that and crash bomb doesn't kill nor does a lot of damage, while danger wrap negates her aerial game and kill her way more easy.

It is a better juggle tool because it can be combined with tornado hold and punish ledges like crazy. You need to start using more your pellets and angled down air metal blade if you really need good horizontal game. Everything you do with crash bomb can be punished by a faster character with his dash attack because of the lag that the move has. In a world full of diddys, mastering pellets and not using your horizontal b spam is a must, because the lag of the b moves can be your doom. Always use metal blade in the air unless you are far far away or you know how to use it as an item. Never use your b moves near your opponent without jumping.

The quick answer to all of this is no. Saying I don't fight "someone who is actually good" is pretty disrespectful both to me and the people I play with.

Crash bomb is legitimately good, even if people are used to it. It's a long range low lag pressure tool that forces either a full offensive, or a defensive option when the timer goes off. At mid-long range, crash bomb is unpunishable because you have distance. Hence, long range poke. Using crash bomb at mid-range or, god forbid, close range is not how the move is designed to be used. It's like using Danger Wrap when someone is below you. That's not going to do much good.

Crash Bomb can be disrespected by some characters, so it's just not as useful in those matchups. Just because it doesn't kill doesn't mean it's useless. I fight a good Rosalina, who is in the tournament scene (not that being in the scene means anything) and places well in about every tournament he goes to barring his SD tendencies. Crash Bomb vs Rosalina is a wonderful thing because it blows up on Luma or sends Luma into tumble if it's attached to Rosalina. I don't have much experience using Danger Wrap vs Rosalina, so I can't comment on how it negates her aerial game, but the lack of horizontal range and longer end-lag on the move is a giant turn off.

Juggling is for someone who's above you, not on the ledge. That was my question. I've heard of how it punishes ledge options due to its slow travel speed when it is first fired, and I'm not denying that it's good, I've just said "it's not for me." I have a very good horizontal game and I understand how good pellets are. I don't "spam" metal blade and crash bomb mindlessly waiting to get punished. I know you don't know how I play, but the advice you're giving comes off as very condescending. I don't know how you play either.

 

[Kronos2560]

Why I think 3322 is a great setup:

Shadow Blade:

I was a strong opposer against anything not named metal blade, but after a while, I'm starting to realize that metal blade has some key weaknesses that make Shadow Blade more desirable.

First of all, if you want to use MB to its full potential, it's best to throw it on the ground, pick it up, and throw it at the opponent. You can do great combos, safely pressure and harrass. The problem with this is... it isn't a threat from long distance if the opponent is patient, and decides to catch it, or simply block it. In addition, when you have MB in your hands, your options become very limited, and can easily be shielded by a player who is smart and just anticipates your throw.

If you throw it regularly, not only is it slow, but the animation takes forever to complete, and the blade has a much higher chance of getting caught then the item version of the throw. It's also difficult to convert from this version because of the longer animation, and people can easily jab you out of your approach.

With Shadow Blade, it has none of these problems, because it's a quick lemon-ranged weapon with good hitstun, and is very difficult to punish on block. I strongly believe that because of this alone, it would help Mega apply safer and more efficient pressure as a midranged fighter.
------

Danger Wrap:

Danger wrap is clearly the better option. Not only does it give Megaman some much needed kill power, but it stuffs Arial approaches, and most importantly, gives him a MUCH better defensive pivot option at close range.

Nothing sucks more than having your back to your opponent, especially when they are fast. The only moves you have to turn yourself around in the air are a b reverse Metal blade, and a crash bomb.

If your opponent is both smart, and sprinting, they could easily block your long animated crashbomb/MB, and convert it into a throw.

With Danger Wrap, the explosion at close range would not allow them to grab you, and give you actual hitstun that can help you reset the midranged neutral game.

----

Tornado Hold:

By far his most intriguing recovery, because it gives Megaman better high recovery options, potential kill confirms off combos, unique edge guarding, and most importantly, better options out of shield.

When you're in shield, the best option as megaman is generally to grab because everything else he has comes out a tad slow (Fair), or is unreliable (Bair/Nair)

With TH, he could stuff smart players who space their short hop shield pressure, and potentially swallow them into a combo. If you miss, he could run away since they have to run through the tornado, and you could easily pivot using one of the two aforementioned attacks.

----

Skull Barrier:

With this, I like this better than the others because of its shorter duration, and it's ability to reflect. You can destroy projectile characters, and not be locked into death if you have it out when you're off the ledge because it ends so quick. This is more of a personal pick, it I truly believe the other attacks are much stronger than his other attacks.

 

[mega4000]

The quick answer to all of this is no. Saying I don't fight "someone who is actually good" is pretty disrespectful both to me and the people I play with.

Crash bomb is legitimately good, even if people are used to it. It's a long range low lag pressure tool that forces either a full offensive, or a defensive option when the timer goes off. At mid-long range, crash bomb is unpunishable because you have distance. Hence, long range poke. Using crash bomb at mid-range or, god forbid, close range is not how the move is designed to be used. It's like using Danger Wrap when someone is below you. That's not going to do much good.

Crash Bomb can be disrespected by some characters, so it's just not as useful in those matchups. Just because it doesn't kill doesn't mean it's useless. I fight a good Rosalina, who is in the tournament scene (not that being in the scene means anything) and places well in about every tournament he goes to barring his SD tendencies. Crash Bomb vs Rosalina is a wonderful thing because it blows up on Luma or sends Luma into tumble if it's attached to Rosalina. I don't have much experience using Danger Wrap vs Rosalina, so I can't comment on how it negates her aerial game, but the lack of horizontal range and longer end-lag on the move is a giant turn off.

Juggling is for someone who's above you, not on the ledge. That was my question. I've heard of how it punishes ledge options due to its slow travel speed when it is first fired, and I'm not denying that it's good, I've just said "it's not for me." I have a very good horizontal game and I understand how good pellets are. I don't "spam" metal blade and crash bomb mindlessly waiting to get punished. I know you don't know how I play, but the advice you're giving comes off as very condescending. I don't know how you play either.

I'm not disrespecting you or the people who you play. I know you are good, because you are confident with crash bomb and that requires a lot of skill. I'm talking about playing against very very good people, the kind of people at the level of Dabuz, Zero, Abadango and so on. Let's talk via inbox shall we? just give it a try to danger wrap, I'm gonna explain to you how to use every combination, because I really want that every mega man mainer can use every single tool he has properly. We Mega Man players need to help each other, and believe me danger wrap + tornado hold is a very very good combination that surpass crash bomb + rush by a mile. Never combine crash bomb with tornado hold, unless you have hyper bomb to support tornado hold, but that's still a meh combination.
Also, For the Rosalina matchup: Tornado Hold sends luma fliying instantly and you can combo into bair or danger wrap to kill it from mid stage. Danger Wrap sends luma fliying instantly and 4 danger wraps kill a luma.

 

[Kronos2560]

Is there anyway my post could be visible enough to get my setup on there? I at least want people to consider it. I put A LOT of time in Megaman, and I'm the first/only player to ever crack the top-15 in Northern California as Megaman only.

Just a consideration. I don't need praise or anything, just a look as to what I meant in my post.

 

[mega4000]

Is there anyway my post could be visible enough to get my setup on there? I at least want people to consider it. I put A LOT of time in Megaman, and I'm the first/only player to ever crack the top-15 in Northern California as Megaman only.

Just a consideration. I don't need praise or anything, just a look as to what I meant in my post.

Your set is very good. In some matches you should change to plant barrier in order to have the tornado hold + plant barrier combo for easy grabs, because the shadow blade is special for going for grabs all the time, but against camping people the skull barrier is better.
I consider this ten the best sets for mega man and yours is in my list:

1. 1311 (this one here is only because for me the leaf shield only works with the metal blade and rush, but I still prefer the skull barrier for long distance battles.
2. 1312 (the same as three but can reflect projectiles)
3. 1313 (The second best, Is a very good alternative because tornado hold is superior, but rush follows close)
4. 1322 (This one is just to fight camping people)
5. 1323 (This one is by far the best set for Mega Man)

6. 2122 (Designed specially for villager and pacman matchup)
7. 2322 (very good against slow speed spamming people)
8. 2323 (slow set very good against giants but very bad against fast players)
9. 3322 (close up set that focus in grabs but can return projectiles)
10. 3323 (close up set that focus in grabs)

 

[ENKER]

I'd be excited if Hyper Bomb got any love at all! :D

I made a thread to help us start exploring Hyper Bomb more! If anyone would like to add some Hyper Bomb love, please go here! http://smashboards.com/threads/bomb-mans-demo-get-it.392095/

 

[Wavebird]

Hi everyone
The current build set I am currently looking forward to add to the list or persuade people to add is
3322 This is from my view of things an all out anti air moveset

First is the Shadow blade unlike Metal Blade cannot be grabbed has lots of coverage and has the boomerang effect making it twice as useful as and anti air ( great for wake up game or rolls also)
There is also the Air Grab Option select for those who don't know an option select is an input that covers multiple options
Option 1: If an enemy Air Grabs it automatically grabs the Metal Blade
Option 2: If you don't throw out the Metal Blade He(opponent) dodges

Me being a Anti air enthusiast I like to option select the enemy back even if he dodges the Shadow Blade it still comes back leaving you with a second chance and the enemy has to be wary of the Shadow blade coming back

Next is the Danger Wrap although slow this projectile packs a punch or maybe a bomb, this one is also a great for spacing not only does it move slow it moves upwards and recovers pretty fast. Another thing you can do is follow it up with a short hop up air to cover more air when your opponent is coming from up above and you not need to worry much about reflector since it's pretty hard for one to get you from far away due to the trajectory of the move. There's is also some grab setups but I'm still not on hundred on those but it's more to this awesome move.

Tornado Hold is where things get kinda tricky although it's not the best recovery move it holds its own covering a lot of space and can be used offensively on the ledge, if you launch an opponent, and even for the obvious recovery but you get some damage here and there just for recovering and any damage is good for me.

Lastly Skull Barrier works charms for campy characters or even aggressive characters it's not only the fact that it reflects projectiles it also helps bait opponents into attack you due to the fact that mega man has so little options during down b and skull don't damage unless you throw them. Skull is mostly to counter act other projectile users and in this set it's the glue that brings everything together.

Hopefully you guys will take this moveset into consideration I would love to see more variations with Shadow Blade
Edit: Kronos2560 You got my vote man 3322 all the way

 

[Kronos2560]

Hi everyone
The current build set I am currently looking forward to add to the list or persuade people to add is
3322 This is from my view of things an all out anti air moveset

First is the Shadow blade unlike Metal Blade cannot be grabbed has lots of coverage and has the boomerang effect making it twice as useful as and anti air ( great for wake up game or rolls also)
There is also the Air Grab Option select for those who don't know an option select is an input that covers multiple options
Option 1: If an enemy Air Grabs it automatically grabs the Metal Blade
Option 2: If you don't throw out the Metal Blade He(opponent) dodges

Me being a Anti air enthusiast I like to option select the enemy back even if he dodges the Shadow Blade it still comes back leaving you with a second chance and the enemy has to be wary of the Shadow blade coming back

Next is the Danger Wrap although slow this projectile packs a punch or maybe a bomb, this one is also a great for spacing not only does it move slow it moves upwards and recovers pretty fast. Another thing you can do is follow it up with a short hop up air to cover more air when your opponent is coming from up above and you not need to worry much about reflector since it's pretty hard for one to get you from far away due to the trajectory of the move. There's is also some grab setups but I'm still not on hundred on those but it's more to this awesome move.

Tornado Hold is where things get kinda tricky although it's not the best recovery move it holds its own covering a lot of space and can be used offensively on the ledge, if you launch an opponent, and even for the obvious recovery but you get some damage here and there just for recovering and any damage is good for me.

Lastly Skull Barrier works charms for campy characters or even aggressive characters it's not only the fact that it reflects projectiles it also helps bait opponents into attack you due to the fact that mega man has so little options during down b and skull don't damage unless you throw them. Skull is mostly to counter act other projectile users and in this set it's the glue that brings everything together.

Hopefully you guys will take this moveset into consideration I would love to see more variations with Shadow Blade
Edit: Kronos2560 You got my vote man 3322 all the way

Yo, I'm telling you, this setup gives Megaman enormous amounts of flexibility that he lacks with any other set of moves. Megaman is an amazing character, but with his original setup, has too many inherent flaws that make him difficult to master.

In all of my tournaments, sets with other ranked players and study time of other great megaman players, I honestly believe that this setup would solve most of the inherent problems that he has.

If anyone wants to know what those are, go read my last post explaining the moveset. I went very in depth with it all.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

I think having Shadow Blade with Skull Barrier is inefficient. You NEED a metal blade in hand if you are unsure whether to activate SB or not. If you don't have a blade in hand, and they attack you with non-projectiles, you are forced to shield/run away. Metal Blade gives you another option.

 

[Kronos2560]

I think having Shadow Blade with Skull Barrier is inefficient. You NEED a metal blade in hand if you are unsure whether to activate SB or not. If you don't have a blade in hand, and they attack you with non-projectiles, you are forced to shield/run away. Metal Blade gives you another option.

I understand what you mean, but the barrier goes down fast enough to avoid that situation, and I wouldn't really use it unless I feel I could reflect something, or just reduce my landing lag.

 

[Greward]

I can't agree with Shadow Blade > Metal blade at probably any matchup in the game, but I think we can have a Shadow Blade anyways.

We gotta have at least one Beat set. Superior recovery is always a plus, and the fact we can go lower also makes our offstage game better. It's the best upB in matchups like luigi or other characters that rarely go offstage and if we get used to it I think it can outclass Rush Coil. It's slower and more gimpable, but most characters who will gimp you will probably do so against the rush coil too, and using it before jump and recovering high is pretty legit.

ps: yeah, 3/27 is the deadline, although we should have it earlier.

 

[Kronos2560]

I can't agree with Shadow Blade > Metal blade at probably any matchup in the game, but I think we can have a Shadow Blade anyways.

We gotta have at least one Beat set. Superior recovery is always a plus, and the fact we can go lower also makes our offstage game better. It's the best upB in matchups like luigi or other characters that rarely go offstage and if we get used to it I think it can outclass Rush Coil. It's slower and more gimpable, but most characters who will gimp you will probably do so against the rush coil too, and using it before jump and recovering high is pretty legit.

ps: yeah, 3/27 is the deadline, although we should have it earlier.

Believe me, the fact that metal blade can be confiscated, or waited out has made things harder for me when I get deeper in to the brackets of tournaments. Shadow Blade takes that element away, and that alone makes it better.

I do like your thoughts on using Beat's recovery. The idea of Megaman being able to go deep for recovery excites me. I'll mess around with it to see along with Tornado Hold to see the minor differences.

 

[mega4000]

Believe me, the fact that metal blade can be confiscated, or waited out has made things harder for me when I get deeper in to the brackets of tournaments. Shadow Blade takes that element away, and that alone makes it better.

I do like your thoughts on using Beat's recovery. The idea of Megaman being able to go deep for recovery excites me. I'll mess around with it to see along with Tornado Hold to see the minor differences.

Rosalina can take your shadow blade as an item and you won't be able to use it. Take that in mind.

I can't agree with Shadow Blade > Metal blade at probably any matchup in the game, but I think we can have a Shadow Blade anyways.

We gotta have at least one Beat set. Superior recovery is always a plus, and the fact we can go lower also makes our offstage game better. It's the best upB in matchups like luigi or other characters that rarely go offstage and if we get used to it I think it can outclass Rush Coil. It's slower and more gimpable, but most characters who will gimp you will probably do so against the rush coil too, and using it before jump and recovering high is pretty legit.

ps: yeah, 3/27 is the deadline, although we should have it earlier.

Could you explain how to use beat properly? I really think it's the second worst move followed the crappy ice slasher. Beat is so ****ing gimpeable and punishible, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Greward]

It's not that bad if they take the metal blade. MM can just spam pellets and win (pellets > metal blade toss) unless you are playing a character whose neutral game is based around special moves.
Metal blade is the least useful in the MM ditto matchup, thus meaning it's not really bad if they use it against us. Actually if they pick it up we should have the advantage because they are only able to use special moves and tossing the MB, and just plain pellet spam will beat them (unless they have some asset for that in their special moves).

On the other hand Shadow blade gives us an option at pellet range. While it's good to have more options, pellets are already enough to cover for that range. With your setup (3322) we have no long range option. And skull barrier doesn't really cover for that.

Shadow Blade can work out if they don't know how to play around it, because it has nasty followups and it's pretty straightforward to use but at the same time it's very hard for the opponent to get used to it. Shadow Blade main asset over MB imo is the fact that our opponent shouldn't be able to punish our landing with shieldgrabbing (although maybe they can shield first SB hit, grab, then throw at the same time the shadow blade comes back). It's easier to set up for up tilts but it's less reliable than MB-Uptilt combos once they know how it goes.
And it's punishable on shield depending on the situation, shield - SH - fair works because of the big lag SB has.

All in all I think Mega Man's best move is the metal blade. I'd hardly swap it for any other neutral B in the game, probably top1-5 best neutral Bs, it's useful in any situation in the game, it is one of our main assets at neutral game and it leads to super good followups (well, shadow blade does this too). It's not that Shadow Blade is bad (it's actually quite good), it's just that metal blade is too good.

Because of the nature of 2 stock games, gimmicky options are pretty legit and Shadow Blade can be deadly if they don't know how it works. I think we could have a SB set, but I don't really think it's a better option than MB at high level. What you are implying is that good opponents do read and punish your MB use, but they don't with your SB, so that's probably because they don't know how it works aka gimmicky.

 

[Kronos2560]

It's not that bad if they take the metal blade. MM can just spam pellets and win (pellets > metal blade toss) unless you are playing a character whose neutral game is based around special moves.
Metal blade is the least useful in the MM ditto matchup, thus meaning it's not really bad if they use it against us. Actually if they pick it up we should have the advantage because they are only able to use special moves and tossing the MB, and just plain pellet spam will beat them (unless they have some asset for that in their special moves).

On the other hand Shadow blade gives us an option at pellet range. While it's good to have more options, pellets are already enough to cover for that range. With your setup (3322) we have no long range option. And skull barrier doesn't really cover for that.

Shadow Blade can work out if they don't know how to play around it, because it has nasty followups and it's pretty straightforward to use but at the same time it's very hard for the opponent to get used to it. Shadow Blade main asset over MB imo is the fact that our opponent shouldn't be able to punish our landing with shieldgrabbing (although maybe they can shield first SB hit, grab, then throw at the same time the shadow blade comes back). It's easier to set up for up tilts but it's less reliable than MB-Uptilt combos once they know how it goes.
And it's punishable on shield depending on the situation, shield - SH - fair works because of the big lag SB has.

All in all I think Mega Man's best move is the metal blade. I'd hardly swap it for any other neutral B in the game, probably top1-5 best neutral Bs, it's useful in any situation in the game, it is one of our main assets at neutral game and it leads to super good followups (well, shadow blade does this too). It's not that Shadow Blade is bad (it's actually quite good), it's just that metal blade is too good.

Because of the nature of 2 stock games, gimmicky options are pretty legit and Shadow Blade can be deadly if they don't know how it works. I think we could have a SB set, but I don't really think it's a better option than MB at high level. What you are implying is that good opponents do read and punish your MB use, but they don't with your SB, so that's probably because they don't know how it works aka gimmicky.

At a high level, people will block your MB, and make it useless since it takes too long to come out at short range, and too slow of a projectile at long range. SB is much safer on block, and gives you safer and potentially more dangerous options when you mix up your pellets.

In addition, whenever you are holding the MB in your hand, your options literally become Throw, Z-Drop, Shield, Jump, Up-B, Down-B and Side-B. In other words, you are limited, and players will definitely know to rush at you, force a throw, and attack you so you can't logically set up another throw option. They can also block your lemon follow ups, corner you, and make you jump over them, which gives up your back (An absolute no-no for Megaman).

I'm not sure who you're playing against, but when I'm fighting against strong players deep in a tournament bracket, they all know that blocking it and moving forward is the most effective way to eliminate the metal blade, and they also know that perfect shielding it will make it get stuck in the floor.

I don't think it's a bad option, but I do think that SB is a more reliable option for Megaman for all of the reasons above.

 

[mega4000]

At a high level, people will block your MB, and make it useless since it takes too long to come out at short range, and too slow of a projectile at long range. SB is much safer on block, and gives you safer and potentially more dangerous options when you mix up your pellets.

In addition, whenever you are holding the MB in your hand, your options literally become Throw, Z-Drop, Shield, Jump, Up-B, Down-B and Side-B. In other words, you are limited, and players will definitely know to rush at you, force a throw, and attack you so you can't logically set up another throw option. They can also block your lemon follow ups, corner you, and make you jump over them, which gives up your back (An absolute no-no for Megaman).

I'm not sure who you're playing against, but when I'm fighting against strong players deep in a tournament bracket, they all know that blocking it and moving forward is the most effective way to eliminate the metal blade, and they also know that perfect shielding it will make it get stuck in the floor.

I don't think it's a bad option, but I do think that SB is a more reliable option for Megaman for all of the reasons above.

You can foward smash and foward tilt while holding the metal blade too, specially if you hold diagonal down foward. Also, metal blade should be used from the air diagonal down or mostly as an item or as a z-drop. You can star a glide toss from the air too and z-drop can be combo into down smash and a lot of stuff.

 

[Kronos2560]

You can foward smash and foward tilt while holding the metal blade too, specially if you hold diagonal down foward. Also, metal blade should be used from the air diagonal down or mostly as an item or as a z-drop. You can star a glide toss from the air too and z-drop can be combo into down smash and a lot of stuff.

Yeah for sure. I've incorporated that stuff into my game as well, but it's gimmicky at best. Glide tossing is helpful for pivoting, but that's about it.

 

[ChopperDave]

Item Metal Blade is just plain better than Shadow Blade. It's one of our best (if not our best) OoS options, it's faster, it does better damage, it lets us cover our landings, it's great for gimping, etc. etc. And we have techs that left us ftilt and fsmash with MB in hand, and we can also z-drop and recatch while performing an aerial. Throwing a MB down, grabbing it while performing a rising nair or fair, then tossing it on landing (or doing a glide toss combo) is just such a good option for us in neutral.

I think Shadow Blade is mainly useful if Item Metal Blades aren't a part of your playstyle, or if you're playing against an aggressive character that makes it hard to get an Item MB.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Kronos2560]

Item Metal Blade is just plain better than Shadow Blade. It's one of our best (if not our best) OoS options, it's faster, it does better damage, it lets us cover our landings, it's great for gimping, etc. etc. And we have techs that left us ftilt and fsmash with MB in hand, and we can also z-drop and recatch while performing an aerial. Throwing a MB down, grabbing it while performing a rising nair or fair, then tossing it on landing (or doing a glide toss combo) is just such a good option for us in neutral.

I think Shadow Blade is mainly useful if Item Metal Blades aren't a part of your playstyle, or if you're playing against an aggressive character that makes it hard to get an Item MB.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

Again, I understand the uses of MB. I've discovered, practiced and incorporated a lot of its tech into my game. But it's not a threat when people can block it, wait it out and punish you. Especially the item version because it makes you extremely one-dimensional, and as soon as they block it, they can rush you down, and limit your options. Believe me, having the Shadow blade in most situations is much safer, and more of a threat.

 

[mega4000]

Again, I understand the uses of MB. I've discovered, practiced and incorporated a lot of its tech into my game. But it's not a threat when people can block it, wait it out and punish you. Especially the item version because it makes you extremely one-dimensional, and as soon as they block it, they can rush you down, and limit your options. Believe me, having the Shadow blade in most situations is much safer, and more of a threat.

I know what you are triying to say, but believe me mastering the metal blade is not easy, even a pro megaman player who practice every day still discovers new ways of using the metal blade. Shadow blade is a gimmick believe me, once they learn the pattern it will become useless, because shield really screw it. When people say that metal blade is the best b is not because they are looking down on shadow blade, is because the limitless potential you have with metal blade. Also if you really have struggle against opponets that grab your blade and have good spam b, use the skull shield problem solved. If they throw it you will return all the spam and you can go for a free grab.