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CT ZeRo's Coaching Program! (I'm back!)

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
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GadielVaStar
Zero, I appreciate all your hard work helping us out. How does one get better at doubles? What type of things should I look out for?

Also, I'm still having trouble keeping a conscious game. I even talk to myself during matches, but then I slowly break bcuz everything seems to be moving so fast and I lose track. Any tips for breaking this cycle?

Oh, and I had a close match vs a spammy nado MK on ladder. I was glad I got to play him bcuz I had not really gotten many chances to practice what to do vs nado. I got stringed waay touch in the air, so do you have tips on safely recovering offstage and from above MK?

:phone:
 

AlanHaTe

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Feb 13, 2010
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Also, guys! I wrote a mini-guide with Meta Knight tips over at Clashtournaments! Check it out at: http://clashtournaments.com/?p=190
Wow, that was amazing!! I've really liked a lot those articles/guides you've written, they're so helpful!!

keep the excellent job man!!


I saw you already talked about the Snake MU before, I read it but I just want to ask for some approaching tips on that particular MU, it's very hard for me to approach safely, but still there are times when I do it right with very little damage or no damage...

another thing I noticed about my playing recently is that I'm such a camper lol

this is because I'm somewhat scared of being too aggro and get punished for that as I haven't mastered how to do aggro stuff "a la M2K" without me dying first :/

any advice on how to improve on that?
 

GOofyGV

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I don't know him as person but I would really love to play and meet him. If it actualy was possible. But yeah I want to meet so many cool people.
 

TSM ZeRo

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Wow, that was amazing!! I've really liked a lot those articles/guides you've written, they're so helpful!!

keep the excellent job man!!


I saw you already talked about the Snake MU before, I read it but I just want to ask for some approaching tips on that particular MU, it's very hard for me to approach safely, but still there are times when I do it right with very little damage or no damage...

another thing I noticed about my playing recently is that I'm such a camper lol

this is because I'm somewhat scared of being too aggro and get punished for that as I haven't mastered how to do aggro stuff "a la M2K" without me dying first :/

any advice on how to improve on that?
Thanks!

At pro level, approaching Snake is the MOST important factor of the MU. Snake's grenade shielding strats, and dash attack completely cover MK's ground game. If he plays it correctly, the only thing you can do is a dash grab. I play this MU very campy. I love FH D-Airing over Snake until I hit him a couple of times, or bait an U-Tilt and Air dodge to his back and grab him, and then proceed from there. If he likes to shield a lot, I will probably try to dash grab him. Spotdodgers, I tornado. If he throws too many uncooked grenades, I throw them back at him, and with his shield now low, I will tornado, or bait an U-Tilt/pivot grab.

Just play it safe. Snake with one read does like 40% of damage, which is almost half of what he has to do to per stock to kill you.

Hmmmm. Well, that's your own personal style. I don't think it's good to force on yourself an style that isn't naturally yours. But, I would simply try to mimic what M2K does, and with enough practice, you should be able to do what he does.


I don't know him as person but I would really love to play and meet him. If it actualy was possible. But yeah I want to meet so many cool people.
Go to Apex 2013! Everyone is going to be there! Otori, Kakera, M2K, Ally, me, etc.

Zero, I appreciate all your hard work helping us out. How does one get better at doubles? What type of things should I look out for?

Also, I'm still having trouble keeping a conscious game. I even talk to myself during matches, but then I slowly break bcuz everything seems to be moving so fast and I lose track. Any tips for breaking this cycle?

Oh, and I had a close match vs a spammy nado MK on ladder. I was glad I got to play him bcuz I had not really gotten many chances to practice what to do vs nado. I got stringed waay touch in the air, so do you have tips on safely recovering offstage and from above MK?

:phone:
Thanks. Hmmmm, Doubles has 3 key points:

1.- Teamwork. This means, help out your partner when he needs help, communicate, combo together, juggle together, edgeguard together, etc.
2.- Keep track of everyone. There's not 2 players anymore. There's 4 now! Keep track of everyone and what they're doing or what's going on with them, especially your partner's situation. Always communicate with your partner. How are you doing? Wanna switch opponent? Etc.
3.- Chemistry. One person has to be the aggresive player who gains stage control. The other needs to stay alive, pick people off from their blindspots and support the aggressive player in any way they can.

Practice doubles in a serious way whenever you can. It can be hard to find a partner to seriously practice doubles. But do it if possible. Practice, practice and practice!

You sound like you're more of an autopilot player. My best advice is that you should develop a 'set thing to do' -that covers the most options- for anything that happens. This way you DON'T have to think when playing. You're just playing. And when they start to get out of your stuff, simply change what's failing, that's the only moment where you should think.

Off stage. Well, first of all, watch out for shuttle loops. You don't want to get hit by them off the stage. Simply stay away from the ledge. In this situation, you have to trick the MK for which way you're going to go. If he likes to U-Air people and not chase, glide above him. If he likes to chase people, make it as if you were going to glide above him, but quickly descend into the stage. If he likes to chase you off the stage, glide above him. If he likes to stay high in the air, glide towards the ledge, or below the stage. You have to trick him. MK is too strong when edeguarding.

For juggling. Well, depends of the MK. It's actually similar to the edgeguard part. If they like to chase, descend quickly before they set off their 'chase' -U-Airs, Shuttle loops, etc- but don't fall into air dodge frame traps! (U-Airs are most of the time baits). If they wait for you, react before they can. Hit them when they don't seem ready to defend it, or get completely out of the situation (jump away and watch out for the shuttle loop). Depending of how technical the MK is, the harder it's gonna be for you to touch ground. You have to think how the MK wants you to react, based on his habits, and do the complete opposite. Or if he's thinking ahead, and thinking about that, do the first option what he expected first- and trick him for over thinking things.

Gl!
 

BlueXenon

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I read your mk guide and it made me realize I dont use Uair enough and I let my opponents land in the middle of the stage too easily. This is probably because im scared my opponent will beat the uair.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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Ok so are you saying its ok to have smart autopilot? What other types of players are there thinking wise? I'm at the fence with this subject because I feel if I can master or even know where to start with proactive thinking then I can advance my game.

:phone:
 

TSM ZeRo

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I read your mk guide and it made me realize I dont use Uair enough and I let my opponents land in the middle of the stage too easily. This is probably because im scared my opponent will beat the uair.
Mk's U-Air is soooo good. Don't be afraid to abuse it.

Ok so are you saying its ok to have smart autopilot? What other types of players are there thinking wise? I'm at the fence with this subject because I feel if I can master or even know where to start with proactive thinking then I can advance my game.

:phone:
Yes, it's ok. Famous players like M2K, or Otori play a very good auto-pilot game. Besides of auto pliot here's reaction (Ally).

Auto pilot is done by players who can pressure and have a huge technical skill. Reactive style requires you to have instant reactions, and know how to react every time without thinking about it.

The difference between auto pilot and reaction, is that auto pilot simply acts under what happens. It's a set style. Reaction simply reacts to what's happening.

Pick whichever works the best for you.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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Mk's U-Air is soooo good. Don't be afraid to abuse it.


Yes, it's ok. Famous players like M2K, or Otori play a very good auto-pilot game. Besides of auto pliot here's reaction (Ally).

Auto pilot is done by players who can pressure and have a huge technical skill. Reactive style requires you to have instant reactions, and know how to react every time without thinking about it.

The difference between auto pilot and reaction, is that auto pilot simply acts under what happens. It's a set style. Reaction simply reacts to what's happening.

Pick whichever works the best for you.
Ok, then I'm autopilot no doubt, I do practice my tech skill a lot w/ Pit, just to be sure I'm quick w/ everything. What is your style btw? And are you saying that there are only those two types of styles between all players? Also, can you critique two matches of the best Pits in the world vs MK and help me figure how I can dissect their playstyle, and their overall mindset behind their move choices? If you just give me an example of even one of the matches, that would be perfect so I can go and do even more watching/research myself. Thank you Zero.

Rain(MK) vs Masashi(Pit): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppughqle3dc
Otori(MK) vs Earth(Pit): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5mDg3DV658
 

GOofyGV

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even if I would love to go Zero I have school the week after and I live in europe so it's kinda impossible.
I am thinking about next year though.(2014) I'd really love to come to america or go to Japan.
 

BlueXenon

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I played someone last night who I play a lot. The last time we played he 2stocked me 90% of the matches, even though my controller was terrible, he still outplayed me. I tried using more uair against him last night and did much better.
 

Twigz

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Hey guys erm... I don't play MK.. But my friend does.. We wanted to know who would make a good doubles partner for mk. I can play IC, pikachu and peach. Which out of the three would be better choice? Thanks in advance

:phone:
 

TSM ZeRo

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Ok, then I'm autopilot no doubt, I do practice my tech skill a lot w/ Pit, just to be sure I'm quick w/ everything. What is your style btw? And are you saying that there are only those two types of styles between all players? Also, can you critique two matches of the best Pits in the world vs MK and help me figure how I can dissect their playstyle, and their overall mindset behind their move choices? If you just give me an example of even one of the matches, that would be perfect so I can go and do even more watching/research myself. Thank you Zero.

Rain(MK) vs Masashi(Pit): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppughqle3dc
Otori(MK) vs Earth(Pit): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5mDg3DV658
I'm autopilot.

Well, you either react to things, or simply act accordingly to your style and cover options by instinct. So yes, I think every styles comes from those two things.

Both Pit's play on a reaction-based style, and base their attacks on their opponent's mindset of shielding/spotdodging.F or example, Earth is great at grabbing shields in general, and Masashi loves to spot dodge grabs.

even if I would love to go Zero I have school the week after and I live in europe so it's kinda impossible.
I am thinking about next year though.(2014) I'd really love to come to america or go to Japan.
Awwww ;(. Yeah, definitely go to either.

I played someone last night who I play a lot. The last time we played he 2stocked me 90% of the matches, even though my controller was terrible, he still outplayed me. I tried using more uair against him last night and did much better.
Consider doing U-Air and D-Air frame traps. This is basically U-Airing to force your opponent to air dodge through you, and you then double jump down air immetiatly and hit him as he's coming out of his air dodge invencibility frames.
And if he doesn't air dodge, you got a free U-Air hit!

You can see this in a lot of pro MK videos. CT Mew2King does it a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuZ7M9TNNLs
I would love some information on how you look at my newer play style which I worked hard on last month. Since that was the last time I asked critique =)

We should also play some wifi if possible with timelines etc.
I'm gonna cover the game that you lost, since that's where I can see where and when you're having troubles.

At 1-25 you had a free gimp on him. When you hit Diddy while he's on his UPB animation, he suffers a very long lag. You should of down air'ed him a couple of times there and gimped him.

At 1-35 Diddy has literally no shields. It's a free tornado and general, and he's picking up bananas, so he wouldn't of covered a SH tornado.

At 2-20 grab the ledge! He pretty much killed himself there.

2-26 You got Monkey Flipped again. Tornado those.

3-37 Your jump killed you here when you Di'ed. This is because when you DI something, you need to aim for the diagonal angle to maximize the distance that you travel, and in the end, survive. Because you jumped, you immediatly reached the top blastzone and died.

4-20 Don't be scared to drop down and Dair those UPB's attemts. This kind of gimps win tournament games.

At the end he totally read that air dodge habit of yours. It would of been better to go off stage and grab the ledge, he had a banana covering his back and a banana in hand. It was way too dangerous for you to land.

Hopefully this helped :).

Sure! We could someday. My FC is on my profile here.

Your mini-guide is nice. Good read. I also enjoyed your post about tournament nerves.

Keep up the good work! :)
Thank you!

And yep! New guide: http://clashtournaments.com/?p=224

Hey guys erm... I don't play MK.. But my friend does.. We wanted to know who would make a good doubles partner for mk. I can play IC, pikachu and peach. Which out of the three would be better choice? Thanks in advance

:phone:
Peach if you can use her well in doubles, has a great combo synergy with MK. However Pikachu has awesome combos with his thunder and MK's U-Air. Both are fine.
 

GOofyGV

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I'm gonna cover the game that you lost, since that's where I can see where and when you're having troubles.

At 1-25 you had a free gimp on him. When you hit Diddy while he's on his UPB animation, he suffers a very long lag. You should of down air'ed him a couple of times there and gimped him.

At 1-35 Diddy has literally no shields. It's a free tornado and general, and he's picking up bananas, so he wouldn't of covered a SH tornado.

At 2-20 grab the ledge! He pretty much killed himself there.

2-26 You got Monkey Flipped again. Tornado those.

3-37 Your jump killed you here when you Di'ed. This is because when you DI something, you need to aim for the diagonal angle to maximize the distance that you travel, and in the end, survive. Because you jumped, you immediatly reached the top blastzone and died.

4-20 Don't be scared to drop down and Dair those UPB's attemts. This kind of gimps win tournament games.

At the end he totally read that air dodge habit of yours. It would of been better to go off stage and grab the ledge, he had a banana covering his back and a banana in hand. It was way too dangerous for you to land.

Hopefully this helped :).

Sure! We could someday. My FC is on my profile here.



I actualy keep getting motivation to get better. It's only getting bigger atm. And honestly your guides did kinda help with it. I have a goal and I actualy look up to players.
I probably can't attend Apex 2013. But I will be 18 when Apex 2014 happens. And if I have money I'll be there.
The most fun thing though is that I don't have twitter lol. I should make one and only use it for the smash comunity lol.

EDIT: Also you should make a zero's player spotlight about yourself. I think you diserve that. I would love to help you out with it if you need:)
 

BlueXenon

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I am starting to think metaknight has alot of even match ups, but when the non-mk player makes even one mistake, metaknight gets a big advantage from it, but metaknight can make a few small mistakes and still win. Do you agree?
 

TSM ZeRo

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I actualy keep getting motivation to get better. It's only getting bigger atm. And honestly your guides did kinda help with it. I have a goal and I actualy look up to players.
I probably can't attend Apex 2013. But I will be 18 when Apex 2014 happens. his And if I have money I'll be there.
The most fun thing though is that I don't have twitter lol. I should make one and only use it for the smash comunity lol.

EDIT: Also you should make a zero's player spotlight about yourself. I think you diserve that. I would love to help you out with it if you need:)
That's awesome. Keep that motivation up! That's how you win tournaments. I made a video blog about this by the way. It's going to be up soon.

Definitely try to come. And yes! Make a Twitter and follow me at @CT_ZeRo

Well, the interviewer can't interview himself! But I'll gladly accept any interview offers :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60xrHvI9qVs&feature=youtu.be

I realized during this game that I feel uncomfortable in the ditto if it's an unfamiliar :metaknight:, but even if they're a level or two above me and I've played them before, I feel just fine.
That's because you're a player that needs to learn the habits of your opponents in order to do well. Mk can play SOOO different depending of the player. This is why you struggle.

I would reccomend you to play as much as you can vs players you're not used to, and play by INSTINCT. Not by habits. Simply try to play by what YOU think you should do, not play by what your opponent does. Not only vs MK's, but vs all the characters that you can play. This should fix your problem.

I am starting to think metaknight has alot of even match ups, but when the non-mk player makes even one mistake, metaknight gets a big advantage from it, but metaknight can make a few small mistakes and still win. Do you agree?
It's MU dependant, really. Usually MU's that could be even, such as Falco, Fox, Diddy, Snake or Olimar, aren't completely even, because of the gimp factor. That's really it. MK can gimp you at any time and swing the match to his favor. It isn't like he can make more mistakes and win, on the contrary, he usually has to make less since he is so light and dies quite easily. It's just that he easily makes comebacks due to gimps.
 

Shadow Blitz

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1. ZeRo, would you explain spacing in-depth to me? It's such a broad topic. How can I get better at it? What are good ways to space with :metaknight:?
I get that it's not just hitting with the tips of hitboxes. I just never understand the concept and it gets thrown around so much. The more text, the better.


2. Can you give me tips on how to fight :gw:? It's my worst matchup.
 

TSM ZeRo

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1. ZeRo, would you explain spacing in-depth to me? It's such a broad topic. How can I get better at it? What are good ways to space with :metaknight:?
I get that it's not just hitting with the tips of hitboxes. I just never understand the concept and it gets thrown around so much. The more text, the better.


2. Can you give me tips on how to fight :gw:? It's my worst matchup.
To define spacing, I must first define the 'space' that we're playing in. Imagine that the game's stage is a square. One one side there's your opponent, and on there other side, you. The more space that you have behind, the more space that you have to maneuver, since you can back out. The opposite happens with your opponent. The less space he has behind him, the less space he has to maneuver.

Spacing is basically gaining space behind you. It's a term meant to gain stage control.

However, when people use it as a way to refer to attacks, it has a different meaning. It's like you said, it's meant to position -space- your attacks with their full range, or at a certain distance so you can't be punished by your opponent. This is the other term for spacing: Positioning of your attacks.

You get better at it by getting to know better your attacks, and especially, their range. Once you understand the range of things, and can manipulate them at will, you can easily control the distance between you and your opponent by simply knowing how to position your attacks. There's no easy way to learn this, it comes down with experience. Simply play a lot and pay attention to the speed and range of your attacks, and try to use them in a way that what you want to do makes sense. For example, if I see my opponent misstime something, and he's at mid range, depending of the MU, I'll have a couple of frames to punish, at this range, I know I can easily dash grab or F-TIlt since both are quick options. If he's above me and falling down with an attack, I should U-Tilt at a certain time when he's falling down, etc. This is how I'm connecting my 'I gotta punish this with this'. This is an example of a 'mastered spacing' works, which is why I'm telling you to focus on how to connect your mental process with your character's moveset.

First of all vs GW:

Don't play aggressive. Play quite campy, and sit back a lot. Especially if you're above 60%. Always watch out for grabs (if you shield a lot) Down airs, and F-Airs. Most GW's throw Smashes for when they expect you to attack them, this is why it's better to wait for them to attack so this doesn't happen.

All GW does is trade. He hits harder and survives longer due to his bucket cancel, so you lose all trades. Don't trade with him. Play campy.

I usually play this way:

B-Airs: Tornado, GSL, F-TIlt. Depending of height, how close he is. If not shield, and then punish his distance as fast as possible with an F-Tilt or N-Air/Grab if he messed up the timing. GSL to kill.
D-Air: If I see it coming, shield and grab/N-Air/D-Air is the best option. U-Tilt is the best option to kill him when he D-Airs.
N-Air: Don't get hit by this, this is how he wins the mu: N-Air combos. Tornado beats it pretty well for when he is juggling you. Simply fall down with tornado.
Shield game: I simply F-Tilt, D-tilt at max range, and then shield/spot dodge his punishes (He can only grab or SH F-Air) or dash grab him right away. If his shield is low I will tornado or SH F-Air. If he sees the tornado coming, I will SH and do nothing and wait for his reaction towards my fake attempt of tornado.
Spotdodge: SH F-Air/F-Tilt a little delayed (Don't F-Air right away, wait a split second. Don't do all 3 hits of F-Tilt right away, wait a ltitle bit in between each of them) owns this. Hard reading this into a N-Air, grab, dash attack, or even a glide attack can give you the openings you need to combo GW hard and gain a solid lead.

Videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdtyDbRPFjw <---Perfect demonstration of what I said, but sadly, the video is kind of laggy from the stream. But still, a very solid and good example of the MU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct7yLWw8CgA <--- Good example of how to counter GW's moveset in general. However, don't SL as much as I did here, because most GW's D-Air right away, so they beat MK's SL. Neko didn't D-Air that much back when this was played out, which is why I abused SL so much vs him. This is also a good example of how abusing your opponent's weaknesses works!

Edgeguard:

If you can shuttle loop of the stage like Otori, or Kakera do, it works amazing for GW's who don't recover low enough. If not, simply grab the ledge just as he's about to grab it, then press back and jump at him with a F-Air (guaranteed pretty much) and N-Air if he doesn't space properly. If you're going for a N-Air try to land on his 'face' (the other side) so he gets sent,back off the stage again. If he misspaces it, a GSL can also kill him too. But N-Air is a lot of damage and also kills, so I would stick with that move in this situation, personally. Grabs work wonders too! B-Throw is the best option in this case.

Most importantly, never challenge his Down Airs when you're juggling him. Unless you're perfect at it, he will always get you a couple of times. It's safer and easier to simply bait them and shield and punish afterwards.

When he is juggling you with U-Air, simply glide off the stage and then make it to the ledge and then go back tot he stage. Much safer and easier than trying to land from above into the stage.

GL!
 

GOofyGV

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Zero imma make an interview ready and interview you.

And the motivation I have is because some top players like Kakera,Otori,Rain,Nairo and you inspire me.

My goals are to play those 5 players in an MM and to get the best in europe meaning I have to beat Mr-R and Leon. Which will get terribly hard. I have a lot of respect for them and tey are cool but they are my most important Rivals atm
 

TSM ZeRo

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Zero imma make an interview ready and interview you.

And the motivation I have is because some top players like Kakera,Otori,Rain,Nairo and you inspire me.

My goals are to play those 5 players in an MM and to get the best in europe meaning I have to beat Mr-R and Leon. Which will get terribly hard. I have a lot of respect for them and tey are cool but they are my most important Rivals atm
Really? Sweet. Let me know the details once you get rolling with the idea :).

Awwww, it makes me so happy to hear this kind of things! :D

Sure, feel free to MM whenever you see me.
 

GOofyGV

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Really? Sweet. Let me know the details once you get rolling with the idea :).

Awwww, it makes me so happy to hear this kind of things! :D

Sure, feel free to MM whenever you see me.
If I will ever be able to meet you and the other 4 guys. That's the main problem I have.
But I will try to attend apex 2014. I looked up if 2013 was possible but it isn't =/
Not enough money and my school >brawl.
If I can go to Apex2014 or any other big tournament in America or Japan and it is possible to go and not having school in the way I will go to that. I am working extra to get the money and I safe more money for it.

ANd sure I will try to make a good interview out of it.
 

ninjapenguin

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My buffering was all sorts of whack in this match but I would love some advice. I don't know much vs pit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3MLworDCf8
Rookie's opinion: You used a lot of dash attack, it's pretty high risk/low reward, even in this MU. Also, Pit has a hard time countering tornado, it's very spammable against Pit and can get you out of a lot of tough situations.

Pit's edgegame is fantastic, so try not to get greedy. A lot of times I'll just let him back onto the stage, and throw out a well spaced aerial to either hit him, or just put him in a pressure situation.


But yeah, Zero's much better than me so listen to him instead. :)
 

TSM ZeRo

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If I will ever be able to meet you and the other 4 guys. That's the main problem I have.
But I will try to attend apex 2014. I looked up if 2013 was possible but it isn't =/
Not enough money and my school >brawl.
If I can go to Apex2014 or any other big tournament in America or Japan and it is possible to go and not having school in the way I will go to that. I am working extra to get the money and I safe more money for it.

ANd sure I will try to make a good interview out of it.
I'll be looking forward to all of this!

My buffering was all sorts of whack in this match but I would love some advice. I don't know much vs pit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3MLworDCf8
In general, you have to work on your mechanics. Meta Knight is a character that needs a very good use of mechanics. Hit up training mode, or LVL 3 CPU's, and practice strings and overall movement of MK for how long you can.

My personal favorite is 99 stock vs a LVL 3 Snake on Smashville. Try to beat Snake under 35 minutes! Then as you get faster, try to beat your own record! This is a very good way to practice your mechanics.

Pit MU (general tips).

At mid/close range, every time Pit tries to shoot an arrow, dont' think twice and Short Hop tornado at him. Tornado>Arrows.

Never stay at long range. Pit gets free pressure on you. That's how Pit wins.

Pit can punish very well with his F-Smash and dash grab. This means that you have to space correctly in order to get inside him. Approach slowly towards him, shielding any arrows, and then tornadoing him when you see him shooting an arrow too close to you. If he stops, pay attention to his movement. Some Pit's like to run and shield, which is a free dash grab for you. Others like to roll, dash attack, or stay in place, shield, and then F-Smash. Tornado goes through everything Pit can do at you, so whenever you see him attacking, simply tornado. Shield approaches, or defenses, are dash grabbed. Rolls can be D-Smashed, F-Tilted or grabbed (backwards). Good Pit's grab a lot, so don't shield that often. This is because of the shield spamming you have to use vs his arrows.

Pit can be juggled just like in an MK ditto. U-Airs to force dodges and then fall down and N-Air, D-Air, or shuttle loop him right away if he likes to jump above you, or if he doesn't air dodge right away.

Edgeguarding him is also similar to an MK Ditto (glide), but Pit doesn't have a shuttle loop or tornado to watch out for. This means that he can be easily down aired and shuttle loop off the stage.

Remember that if you hit Pit with any attack during his Upb, he will fall down like a brick (Like when ROB runs out of 'gas' for his UPB).

Good luck!

Rookie's opinion: You used a lot of dash attack, it's pretty high risk/low reward, even in this MU. Also, Pit has a hard time countering tornado, it's very spammable against Pit and can get you out of a lot of tough situations.

Pit's edgegame is fantastic, so try not to get greedy. A lot of times I'll just let him back onto the stage, and throw out a well spaced aerial to either hit him, or just put him in a pressure situation.


But yeah, Zero's much better than me so listen to him instead. :)
Every piece of advice or information is very welcome. I can't know everything, that's why I learn from my experiences, or recollect information, this way I can develop my strategies with the biggest amount of information possible.
 

ninjapenguin

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I'm glad to hear that Zero. I posted mainly because that Pit is my best friend so I know his tactics very well lol. Also, that thing about trying to beat Snake under 35 minutes is a fantastic idea, definitely going to try that!

:phone:
 

Psychoace

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Thanks a lot everyone! I panicked and tried camping that match and you see where it got me. I also needed to learn what attacks mk could use tornado on, thanks for the options. Now that I have some slight tech skill practice motivation i'll be sure to do this.
 

TSM ZeRo

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I'm glad to hear that Zero. I posted mainly because that Pit is my best friend so I know his tactics very well lol. Also, that thing about trying to beat Snake under 35 minutes is a fantastic idea, definitely going to try that!

:phone:
That's cool. Pit is a very uncommon character in tournaments, so knowing the MU will be extremely beneficial when you run into one at big tournaments where it's higher the chance to play them (Like at Apex, for example).

Me to Zero =D

also me for apex 2014 is 90% confirmed depends on the date
Cool!

Thanks a lot everyone! I panicked and tried camping that match and you see where it got me. I also needed to learn what attacks mk could use tornado on, thanks for the options. Now that I have some slight tech skill practice motivation i'll be sure to do this.
Make sure to practice 1 hour daily so you don't over do yourself and get bored/lose your motivation. Then gradually play more as you get faster and more motivated.
 

BlueXenon

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Can I please have advice for fighting Ike? His Fair always hits me whether im shielding or not.
 

ninjapenguin

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Lately I've been playing a lot of Project:M, even more than Brawl in fact. Since it's so much faster, when i switch back to Brawl I am able to make better reads and react more quickly, but with some characters it's hard to get the feel for them again. I can only play limited amounts of time right now, do you think playing mostly P:M with my time will continue to improve my MK in Brawl? Or should I just stick to practicing more tech skill in Training mode?

:phone:
 

TSM ZeRo

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Can I please have advice for fighting Ike? His Fair always hits me whether im shielding or not.
This is because you shield too early before the hit. MK's shield is small, and when you shield for long periods of time, your top side of your shield becomes vulnerable. This is why you're getting hit by it.
Solutions:

Shield just before the hit (But if you see it coming, simply GSL instead of shielding).
Or tilt your shield up while shielding. This is done by carefully tilting your control stick upwards when shielding.

Lately I've been playing a lot of Project:M, even more than Brawl in fact. Since it's so much faster, when i switch back to Brawl I am able to make better reads and react more quickly, but with some characters it's hard to get the feel for them again. I can only play limited amounts of time right now, do you think playing mostly P:M with my time will continue to improve my MK in Brawl? Or should I just stick to practicing more tech skill in Training mode?

:phone:
It's up to you. if you feel you're getting better at something by doing another thing. Then great! But personally, I feel that practicing on what you want to get better is always the best thing to do. I try to not mix Melee and Brawl playtime, since I tend to be inconsistent afterwards. That's why I quitted Melee to dedicate at Brawl.

It shouldn't hit you if you're shielding and you have a reasonable size shield. Just Up-B it OoS.
Precisely. Like I said, don't forget to tilt your shield up so you don't get shield stabbed!
 

ninjapenguin

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Did you ever play melee competitively? I'm not sure how many Chilean tourneys there were lol. Also I hope to upload videos this weekend from some Money Matches I saved for critique.
 

TSM ZeRo

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Thankyou!
10
NP!

Did you ever play melee competitively? I'm not sure how many Chilean tourneys there were lol. Also I hope to upload videos this weekend from some Money Matches I saved for critique.
I started to play competitively with Melee back in '06. I won my first tournament in 2007, and started to travel Out of region the same year. I would be able to take sets off of the best players in Chile back then. Then in 2009 I beat everyone but 'Ghost' at the Melee national GF's, and took second place. I lost 3-2 in the third set (I lost in winners game 5, then beat him in GF's 1 which went all the way to game 5 and he then beat me in the next set which also went to game 5). I was like 12 or 13 years old back then. That was such an exciting set for the Chilean Smash scene. It was an awesome feeling for me by just being there... Even now I get chills down my spine by watching this video. So many memories!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jte-riw4z5o

And sure! I'll be waiting for them :).
 

BlueXenon

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What was the most difficult match up for you to learn and the easiest one?
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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Tornado goes through everything Pit can do at you, so whenever you see him attacking, simply tornado.
Pit's f-tilt, 2nd hit of F-Smash, d-tilt(somtimes), Pivot Grab and Mirror Shield(most reliable) can beat Nado, but they require prediction, and most of the time, it's too hard to react to the Nado and beat it out w/ his moves because they are slow up-close vs MK.
 

TSM ZeRo

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What was the most difficult match up for you to learn and the easiest one?
Hardest: Tie between Olimar and MK. Both are extremely uncommon characters in the Chilean smash scene.

Easiest: Snake. My practice partner used to main Snake, and we would practice daily for 3-5 hours, which allowed me to learn the MU much faster and easier than other characters.

Pit's f-tilt, 2nd hit of F-Smash, d-tilt(somtimes), Pivot Grab and Mirror Shield(most reliable) can beat Nado, but they require prediction, and most of the time, it's too hard to react to the Nado and beat it out w/ his moves because they are slow up-close vs MK.
That's precisely why once Pit commits to an attack, or move, he's a free target to MK's tornado. He can't instantly counter it in any angle like other characters can (Snake, MK, etc), he has to expect it and position accordingly, and that gives the MK player such an easy time at tricking him into different attacks, or timings with the tornado.
 
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