Crituque my Marth

illboyzeus · May 9, 2007

REDRAGON · May 9, 2007

lol first round Peach got 2 bombs and a stichface lol
You are one unlucky guy.........

Lesheik · May 9, 2007

I saw the Marth vs. Fox one. I noticed that you f-air when your opponent is at a high % when you could just n-air them off the stage and kill them. Marth's n-air has more knockback than his f-air. F-air just allows Marth to link another attack.

Postives: Good spacing

Negatives: Work on mindgames

JesiahTEG · May 10, 2007

REDRAGON said:
lol first round Peach got 2 bombs and a stichface lol
You are one unlucky guy.........

No, he's just so lucky to be playing such a talented peach player that can get 2 bombs and a stitch.

REDRAGON · May 10, 2007

JesiahTEG said:
No, he's just so lucky to be playing such a talented peach player that can get 2 bombs and a stitch.

Yeah, whatever

JesiahTEG · May 10, 2007

It was a joke dude, take it easy.

REDRAGON · May 10, 2007

JesiahTEG said:
It was a joke dude, take it easy.

lol, its all cool dude. I just like saying that..........
Man i got good mindgames :psycho:

KyloWinter · May 10, 2007

I watched the first Marth ditto.

You have good spacing on your Fairs. Stop using Dsmash, I can't really think of a situation where it is a good move. Chill out with the Fsmash, you used a DC Fsmash to approach way too much. Instead try to end a combo with the Fsmash. Your approach was basically to dashdance/wavedash around in one place then try to dash halfway across the stage, pretty predictable. You also stalled in the air with ForwardB quite a lot, not a bad idea but when you do it fairly regularly and you are in a Marth ditto you don't want to be above him for very long.

Your playstyle in general was recklessly aggressive. Once you miss an attack it is ok to just back off for a bit to recenter yourself instead of constantly missing your attacks. You also seem to have practiced combos on computers in training mode or something since you would throw out a preset combo instead of reacting to your opponents DI.

I also watched the vs. Jigglypuff match, but that Jigglypuff was pretty terrible so I can't really give you any tips.

REDRAGON · May 10, 2007

Yeah i think you use Forward smash way too much. Its a great move and the best smash in the game but it has lag. You did get punished for it a few times. Still nice Marth!

illboyzeus · May 10, 2007

Yeah I'm sorta aggressive with Marth, should I be more defensive? What do you mean by a preset combo though?

Emblem Lord · May 10, 2007

You would just go with combos you already memorized. They are combos that always work no matter what once you set them up. There are no true preset combos in this game, so you shouldn't rely on trying to find any. Other fighting games that have combos such as Tekken are all preset combos.

REDRAGON · May 10, 2007

Also agaist a Marth and Fox/Falco Ken does a lota down-tilts for edgauarding
I noticed you would just let the Marth come up then wait for him to make a move. You need to pressure him more with edgeguarding.
Use spikes and down-tilts for edgeguarding!

KyloWinter · May 11, 2007

illboyzeus said:
Yeah I'm sorta aggressive with Marth, should I be more defensive? What do you mean by a preset combo though?

You shouldn't necessarily be more defensive, I play a pretty aggressive Marth. However, you do need to recognize when you're in a position where it would be more effective to just back off instead of attacking wildly, hoping to put your opponent into a combo.

As for the preset combos, Emblem Lord explained it well. I haven't watched the match since earlier today, but I do remember something along the lines of Fthrow when your opponent is at like 80% to a complete whiff of an Fsmash. Increase your knowledge of what works at what percentages and react more to your where your opponent is DIing instead of throwing stuff out that works only some of the time.

The_Marth_Madness · May 11, 2007

I don't want to start a new thread, so while you guys are at it, can you critique mine too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8doNu4MchdE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy84dZleOKs

KyloWinter · May 11, 2007

Avoid getting shine spiked every 10 seconds.

But seriously, I'm tired as hell and I'll try and help tomorrow morning.

flipkid · May 11, 2007

i only watched the marth dittos.. um it semed like you both dsmashed way too much.. meaning at all.. also the dtilt works really well in this matchup for edgegaurds... cc the upb and dtilt.. other people are right... realize what you can do at certain percentages.. techchase or aerial rather than wiff the fsmash after a fthrow stuff like that..

UMBC Super Smasher · May 11, 2007

The_Marth_Madness said:
I don't want to start a new thread, so while you guys are at it, can you critique mine too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8doNu4MchdE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy84dZleOKs

haha Zelgadis! ok...

- Don't fsmash, it will get you punished. Instead, SHFFL fairs.
- Keep the chaingrabs going longer. Don't end so soon with an fsmash.
- sweetspot your up B
- Be careful with using your jump to grab the ledge, cause that's when foxes loves to shine spike.
- Swat fox away with a fair if he is trying to shine spike you. As marth, you can actually punish a fox that goes for too many shine spikes. You have to always anticipate the shine spike, just as fox anticipates marth to use his 2nd jump to get on the stage.
- Don't roll against fox.
- Did you know that marth can grab fox when fox is going for a grab? Try it sometime by grabbing fox before he is close enough to grab marth. It's such a pain as a fox trying to grab marth when he grabs fox instead.
- nice spike on fox in the 2nd video =)
- nice attempt at the bair during fox's fireball.
- Fox should always get off one uair after an uthrow versus marth (if it's good), but that's it. Smash DI the opposite direction after the first uair.
- Don't nair fox if he's trying to shine spike you cause it has too much lag. I'm guessing you did that by accident.
- nice counter
- Learn to fast fall when wavedashing from the stage to the ledge.
- Grab more. Marth vs fox is all about grabs. For the most part you had the right idea, though

Good playing, I like your marth. It's nice to get to watch some good marths play once in a while

p.s. Zelgadis sucks!

The_Marth_Madness · May 11, 2007

UMBC Super Smasher said:
haha Zelgadis! ok...

- Don't fsmash, it will get you punished. Instead, SHFFL fairs.
- Keep the chaingrabs going longer. Don't end so soon with an fsmash.
- sweetspot your up B
- Be careful with using your jump to grab the ledge, cause that's when foxes loves to shine spike.
- Swat fox away with a fair if he is trying to shine spike you. As marth, you can actually punish a fox that goes for too many shine spikes. You have to always anticipate the shine spike, just as fox anticipates marth to use his 2nd jump to get on the stage.
- Don't roll against fox.
- Did you know that marth can grab fox when fox is going for a grab? Try it sometime by grabbing fox before he is close enough to grab marth. It's such a pain as a fox trying to grab marth when he grabs fox instead.
- nice spike on fox in the 2nd video =)
- nice attempt at the bair during fox's fireball.
- Fox should always get off one uair after an uthrow versus marth (if it's good), but that's it. Smash DI the opposite direction after the first uair.
- Don't nair fox if he's trying to shine spike you cause it has too much lag. I'm guessing you did that by accident.
- nice counter
- Learn to fast fall when wavedashing from the stage to the ledge.
- Grab more. Marth vs fox is all about grabs. For the most part you had the right idea, though

Good playing, I like your marth. It's nice to get to watch some good marths play once in a while

p.s. Zelgadis sucks!

yea, I know Zel is way more experienced than me.. Thanks for the advice. I seem to not know what to do when I'm being edge-guarded, or when I'm hanging from teh egde. It seems no matter what I did, he knew where I was going to be at the end of the invincibility frames.

knightpraetor · May 11, 2007

hey question...about the fastfalling after the wavedash to the edge..what exactly do you hit in what order?

is the goal to just hit down and in lightly and fast enough that you start it but aren't holding down when you touch the ledge? i assumed that was it..i haven't really started training this yet..didn't know it was possible till a few days ago

Bibbed · May 11, 2007

UMBC Super Smasher said:
- Don't fsmash, it will get you punished.

Last time I saw you play I think the C-stick was the only button you hit... a lot has changed in the last month I guess?

knightpraetor -- You want to do a Street Fighter type thing, where you rotate from down to toward the edge as soon as you hit your wavedash.

UMBC Super Smasher · May 11, 2007

Bibbed said:
Last time I saw you play I think the C-stick was the only button you hit... a lot has changed in the last month I guess?

knightpraetor -- You want to do a Street Fighter type thing, where you rotate from down to toward the edge as soon as you hit your wavedash.

Just because I spam the fsmash (or used to) does not mean I think I should or that it is right. I have been working on breaking the habit. However, the point is not to spam it when it gets you punished, and most people can't do that, or there are better options than fsmashing. For a pro, Azen spams the fsmash, but it works more to his benefit than not, I believe because of skill.

There are times when fsmash is acceptable. If your opponent is getting back onto the stage from the ledge and you have the timing down, then fsmash. If your opponent is in the air, then there's not much they can do to avoid getting hit from the fsmash and punish marth. The time when fsmash is bad is if the opponent is on the ground and marth just fsmashes. That is what I saw in the match I was critiquing. Ultimately however, in a tournament match just do what works. If your opponent keeps getting hit by fsmashes, then by all means keep spamming. That's what I did to Kaiser and it worked against his fox and falco :D

Yeah actually, holding a tournament and playing people like M2K then going to an MLG and getting training from Husband does change things. Now when I play against some characters I rarely or never use the fsmash (ICs and sheik for example).

btw, when did you see me play? I don't recall ever playing you.

and uhh the fast fall wavedash to ledge is just like it sounds... fast fall once marth clears the edge, but make sure not to hold down or marth won't grab.

Scimmia · May 13, 2007

Shine spike on few fox versus were consistent, but add more nair into your approach dash, and work on using nair to ledge knockback. Don't think you have to play more defensive, i play marth and aggressive is the only way i see it when your him. However don't be afraid to change your forte up a bit when needed...:O

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