Critical information about Samus.

[Dobs1007]

Ok, please don't go all crazy on me, but what is ZAir? I know BAir, NAir, FAir, UAir, but not ZAir...

EDIT: Oh, wow, never mind. Grapple Beam in Mid-Air, I always wanted this to be a viable move in Melee, so I would use it X_X. How is it now?

The Zair is useful now Hylian has done a lot of research on it. You can look at his videos posted in another thread to find out more about move. Good for racking up damage and setting up possible combos from what I have read and seen.

 

[Hylian]

I don't mean to be a ****, but you failed to address this game's shield system which honestly counters a huge amount of the "bonuses" you mentioned.

It's been decently known that samus has no landing lag on any of her arials, which is great and all, but it doesn't do much in a game where stun is almost non existent, Follow ups are limited, and shield pressure doesn't really exist.

Thats what I thought. Seriously. That exact thing. When I got excited over her lagless arials I was actually getting excited over all the combo possibilities it gives her. Things like nair to jab actually register as consecutive hits >_>. It gives her pleanty of follow ups if she can hit with an arial.

And can you be more specific when you say the shield system counters the things I mentioned? I really don't know what you are talking about...

Your whole edgeguard schema fails to address the ridiculous invincibility many characters receive on their up B's. I'm not saying spiking is impossible, but none of this edgeguarding business is as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. I'm speaking from experience because even in Melee people write down edgeguarding strategies as if they are sure to work in all scenarios.

...Come on hugs. Seriously? I was showing that samus has more options then other characters when it comes to edgeguarding. It does not fail to adress the start-up of most characters up B. Have you tried edgeguarding characters like Ike (When they are below the stage) by just jumping off backwards? He will up B, and right when he does you can just grapple the edge and hand there and it will kill him. I have not spiked anyone out of their up B yet aside from pit and rob. When I was talking about zair and spiking them, I generally ment when they were recovering somewhat horizontally and wouldn't be in the poistion to up B yet. Samus's Back throw sets up very well for her just running off the stage and zairing people.

And of course these strategies won't work in all senarios. Considering how exicted I was when I wrote the first post you should really take it with a grain of salt. I didn't write out every character specific edgeguard >_>. I just listed some options samus has when edgeguarding/

The combo thing is VERY true though. She can definitely rack up damage, but her kill moves are still tough to land. Her nair is still good for stopping combos, but it is not as great a move as it was in melee. I am interested in experimenting with the jab more. I must say that I use the jab extensively to begin with and, perhaps, I have been using it the same way as you. But I'm just not seeing the extreme benefits that you're seeing. I'd have to see your vids.

Fair enough.

This is a great info and i'm sure it can help out a bit, but this write up is very short sighted. I'm not saying Samus won't be high tier but, using such advantages as "evidence" there of, lacks foresight.

You are probably correct. I have no idea how the metagame will develop. As of now though, this information gives samus an advantage over many characters. But only for now of course. I am hoping her metagame will develop to a high level as we find these things, while other characters are still looking at how they should move around (exxaguration of course)

 

[Mars-]

I know I was sorta going a long with you but I thought I should add, no offence to you hylian, but you don't have the brawl experience that should be making people turn their heads. I mean you might have played brawl more then anyone in the us, but until you consistantly play different people and consistantly beat them I can only imagine that some of the stuff you have said might not be as good as you make it out to be. This is not intented to be directed at you hylian, but other people who might be getting the idea that samus is going to be really good compared to the other top tier characters based on this thread.

However, because you have been testing out the game more then most people, I would still love to hear what you have found out about the game.

 

[Hylian]

I know I was sorta going a long with you but I thought I should add, no offence to you hylian, but you don't have the brawl experience that should be making people turn their heads. I mean you might have played brawl more then anyone in the us, but until you consistantly play different people and consistantly beat them I can only imagine that some of the stuff you have said might not be as good as you make it out to be. This is not intented to be directed at you hylian, but other people who might be getting the idea that samus is going to be really good compared to the other top tier characters based on this thread.

However, because you have been testing out the game more then most people, I would still love to hear what you have found out about the game.

I do play different people <_<....around 5 of them.


I understand what you are saying though.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

The Zair also has lag, just not on landing. The hitbox disappears long before the Zair finishes (though it cancels on landing). So you can't shorthop Zair unless you're just asking for a punish.

Hylian's already proved that this isn't entirely true...
It all comes with timing. Much like landing just as your missle appears to perform a missle cancel you must learn the timing to land and thus cancel the Zair's animation just as the hitbox fades. But like many things a wiffed timing can be punished. I'm not saying a perfectly timed Zair won't ever get punished but its not so bleak that one should say (short hop'd or not) to expect a punished when used (especially if canceled correctly)..

 

[Boolossus]

You make Samus sound very good... I'd really like to see some vids to fully realize what you're talking about. ^_^

 

[Mars-]

I do play different people <_<....around 5 of them.


I understand what you are saying though.

On a side note, less then 2 days until you all get to see a real samus.

 

[Boolossus]

On a side note, less then 2 days until you all get to see a real samus.

Me? =3
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[Burumage]

I dont play samus, but this thread still makes me happy. The funny thing is even in your older videos I noticed alot of these things. On second thought, by brother mains samus, this is going to annoy me to heck

 

[frotaz37]

Everyone is so cocky about their ability to play a game they don't even own, lol....

 

[HugS]

To keep it simple hylian, I respect some of your findings and am usually eager to see what you're putting out.
I also agree that samus has the potential for high tier, but just as in Melee, it won't be without the hard work and mastery of the individual using her.

I only complain because your post seems to eliminate that human aspect of how to elevate a character, as if implying the character will do it all herself. However, as a contrasting point, I complain for these same reasons against Sylven/esam and the like who bash on Samus for her weaknesses. They too exclude the human element.

Most of you're findings are very true though, so it's good to see someone posting with some validity.

 

[Boolossus]

Everyone is so cocky about their ability to play a game they don't even own, lol....

I'm just saying that my amazing Samus skills will dominate tournaments, wow spectators, and impress the ladies is all. I'm not cocky in the least bit.

 

[Hylian]

To keep it simple hylian, I respect some of your findings and am usually eager to see what you're putting out.
I also agree that samus has the potential for high tier, but just as in Melee, it won't be without the hard work and mastery of the individual using her.

I only complain because your post seems to eliminate that human aspect of how to elevate a character, as if implying the character will do it all herself. However, as a contrasting point, I complain for these same reasons against Sylven/esam and the like who bash on Samus for her weaknesses. They too exclude the human element.

Most of you're findings are very true though, so it's good to see someone posting with some validity.

It all makes sense now . Now that I read my post again I am just kind of saying things that samus has, rather then how they can be used >_>. I don't quite know how I would write things that I find with the human element...I mean it all makes sense to me in my head and when I play...and the things I find just kind of fall in place and I can adapt and change how I play to implement them into my game...I just don't know how to explain that =/.

I will try to think like this more when I post things. Thanks.

 

[sos246]

hylian how do i learn how to win a gamestop tourney without everyplaying the game in a single elim 1 minute best 1 of 1 match with samus while using a wii mote... im doomed lol

 

[Hylian]

hylian how do i learn how to win a gamestop tourney without everyplaying the game in a single elim 1 minute best 1 of 1 match with samus while using a wii mote... im doomed lol

Pick Ike.


Jab combo is amazing.


His bair is amazing.


Do not try to JC grab.

Shield before you do everything pretty much. Powershielding is also really easy.

Dthrow follow then with fair or nair.

Uair will hit anything above you.

You can use Side B to recover. Charge it.

Ftilt kills at under 100%.

If you are falling down just airdodge. You can move jump attack or do anything after an airdodge so do this a lot.

Use the b button to activate your final smash if you get one.

***** items.

Shieldgrab a ton.

On the wiimote/nunchuck...

You move with the nunchuck. Shield is on the nunchuck on the back. The A button does A attacks on the wiimote. The B button is on the back where Z is.(It is Z) Grab with Shield + A.


Good luck my friend .

 

[sos246]

Pick Ike.


Jab combo is amazing.


His bair is amazing.


Do not try to JC grab.

Shield before you do everything pretty much. Powershielding is also really easy.

Dthrow follow then with fair or nair.

Uair will hit anything above you.

You can use Side B to recover. Charge it.

Ftilt kills at under 100%.

If you are falling down just airdodge. You can move jump attack or do anything after an airdodge so do this a lot.

Use the b button to activate your final smash if you get one.

***** items.

Shieldgrab a ton.

On the wiimote/nunchuck...

You move with the nunchuck. Shield is on the nunchuck on the back. The A button does A attacks on the wiimote. The B button is on the back where Z is.(It is Z) Grab with Shield + A.


Good luck my friend .

i forgot to mention all levels are one and all items are on as well >.< gs has the gayest ruleset i have ever seen. but i will take your advice and try ike. if i lose eh o well but if i win lolz

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

The chargeshot/homing missiles are still pretty ****. People just live longer in general.

 

[M@v]

Thanks for posting this! Very helpful info from a fellow samus player

 

[Metalix_Reshef]

perfect i just need to advance my playin style a little

 

[Hylian]

If any of you want to play me, my fc is under my name. Just give me yours. My aim is Hylian88.

 

[really_calm]

where can I find videos of Hylian playing with his new findings? (link?)

I want to be convinced to play more samus ^^

 

[Replacement100]

Love you Hylian... And your G+W :D - just gunna watch some Samus videos now.

I'd like to ask if you feel that Samus is better or worse.
Many people say that she has been nerfed, but if I understand what you're saying, she just has a different playing style.
So taking these into account, would you say better or worse? (I'm sorry if this is tricky, as it does require going into matchups, but you only need to give me a general answer )

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

The only thing I think is worse is that chargeshot doesn't kill as well until higher percents...but thats the case with a lot of different characters and moves. People just live longer. The same argument can be applied to any character. DK's punch doesn't kill as well, Falcon's punch doesn't kill as well, Jiggs rest doesn't kill as well...etc.

 

[Eten]

Luigi's Firejumppunch doesn't kill as... oh I mean kills off the top at 65%.

 

[D4RK_HUNT3R]

This DOES sound very biased, but we'll see what the future holds.

Other characters still have amazing additions too, and I saw you get constantly dominated by Olimar and Marth.

Let's hope the best for Samus though ;-;

 

[distr0ia]

if you're dedicated to mastering the new Samus, then power to ya...but if you're like me and mained Sammy in Melee, you gotta admit she ain't as good as she used to be. lol she's just NOT

all the same, I'm still willing to pick up the pieces and see what we can make happen

I'm still maining her, so you have my support

 

[Drazon]

I'm with distr0ia. I fail to see how she's changed that much since Melee. I don't see all these lagless attacks Hylian is seeing. I'm still trying to deal with the half second lag that kills my Samus when I land on a charging Fsmash Ike online.

It's all very frustrating for me, coming from dominating people in Melee to losing every single match in Brawl.

 

[Paradigm]

I agree she's not as good as she was in Melee. Everyone's worse. I'm pretty confident I could dominate the vast majority of people playing brawl right now if I could use a Melee character - any Melee character will do - with wavedashing and dashdancing and the like. If I knew all the little nuances.

Samus did get buffs. Her zair is absolutely ridiculous. Her screw attack now goes up a lot higher; I can finish most combos with it. It can even KO now (I've caught characters like Sonic and Fox in it plenty of times as they chased me up in the air.).

If you play her exactly as you played her in Melee, then yes she's pretty bad. She's just really different - I don't feel I'm anywhere close yet to maxing out her potential. I can't dominate the local scrubs by as large of a margin as I used to - yet. I'm just not as comfortable with her - or anyone in brawl - as I was in Melee. Yet.

Drazon - What're you smoking? None of air stuff has any notable lag at all when you land. All aerial A moves have single-digit frame lag; you can missile and grapple cancel. And, especially if you're comparing to Ike, her ground moves are plenty fast. She moves - physically traveling, covering distance - slowly, yes.

Have you played with any other character online? The half second lag delays all characters... it's the whole game that's lagging. Maybe not as well as Ike, but Samus - and most characters - can abuse this too - predict your opponents and have them run into charged smashes :D

Just try to approach playing with Samus as you would with a completely new character - she pretty much is.

 

[Drazon]

Let me clarify what I mean when I say "I don't see what he sees."
I don't see what he sees, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

Compared to, let's say an Ike, sure Samus has notable lagless attacks. But it doesn't differentiate with many other characters. If you're talking a few less frames to execute an attack, I can't count frames. I can't tell the difference. I learned to be a good Melee Samus through complete intuition and getting to know her and her moves through years of experience.

It's seven years later and I think I can pick things up quicker than before. I'll add that I had the same problem coming from Smash 64 to Melee. Am I just being to impatient about this or what?

 

[Scarface]

Good info. This, along with some helpful videos will greatly improve my Samus game.

 

[starfoxteamganon]

New hope for samus fans everywhere, I agree that if u do use her as she was in melee u r worse off but the think her heading in a more combo direction is good for her especially with her many lag-less attaCKS

 

[reqy]

yeah, samus pwnz....you can point your cannon in your opponents face'e-weeeeeeeeezy.....kapeeeeeeeezy!" I mean......i pwn kthx. Hylian learned everything from me lolololkekekekekfujkjkjkfufufufu

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

The chargeshot isn't as good as it once was, but what else is worse? I think everything got better.

 

[Eten]

Sex kick, smash missiles and missile cancel techs like the platform cancel, her size, crouch cancelling is gone along with much of the usefulness of her crouch cancel counter so she's not as much of a tank anymore, KO power, and her recovery is no longer relatively godly anymore, just good, the ability to attack out of bombs to mix up attacks, and finally her ground movement/positioning speed from having just about the second useful wavedash in the game.

Just if you had to ask, I gotta be honest and say it. But you need to look at the character as brawl character vs. other brawl characters, not new brawl version vs. the old melee version, because they are different games.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Sex kick, smash missiles and missile cancel techs like the platform cancel, her size, crouch cancelling is gone along with much of the usefulness of her crouch cancel counter so she's not as much of a tank anymore, KO power, and her recovery is no longer relatively godly anymore, just good, the ability to attack out of bombs to mix up attacks, and finally her ground movement/positioning speed from having just about the second useful wavedash in the game.

Just if you had to ask, I gotta be honest and say it. But you need to look at the character as brawl character vs. other brawl characters, not new brawl version vs. the old melee version, because they are different games.

Thats very true.

 

[Phazon_Dude]

The chargeshot isn't as good as it once was, but what else is worse? I think everything got better.

On the contrary, it sorta did get better... seeing how it go a new stun feature. Missiles on the other hand...

Anyway, wanna hear my new technique? I call it Phazon's Ultimate Guard. Basically, when your trying to keep someone like pit from returning back on stage, yet he has so many jumps that if you edge guard him he'll go right over you and if you try to edge hog him he'll slide right to the edge. You know how Samus can wall jump and spike? Well this is how you combine them, first you edge guard and when he is trying to get back on the stage and is right under/beside you you leave the edge, walljump and the side of the stage and then spike your opponent to his bloody death.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

On the contrary, it sorta did get better... seeing how it go a new stun feature. Missiles on the other hand...

Anyway, wanna hear my new technique? I call it Phazon's Ultimate Guard. Basically, when your trying to keep someone like pit from returning back on stage, yet he has so many jumps that if you edge guard him he'll go right over you and if you try to edge hog him he'll slide right to the edge. You know how Samus can wall jump and spike? Well this is how you combine them, first you edge guard and when he is trying to get back on the stage and is right under/beside you you leave the edge, walljump and the side of the stage and then spike your opponent to his bloody death.

Homing missiles are much better this time around.