Crazy, but it just might be cool...

[Haloedhero]

Has anyone seen a shield in any of the Brawl videos? Maybe it's not used in the videos to make them look prettier, because let's face it, the shield isn't the prettiest looking thing in SSB. On the other hand, has anyone else considered that the shield might be gone altogether? Even in early Melee videos, they didn't hide the shield for cosmetic reasons. Suddenly we're not seeing it anymore, and there's some kind of new, faster dodge. Maybe it's gone altogether.

Personally, the prospect of the shield being gone kind of excites me. Not that I'm one to sit around and block everything with my shield, but wouldn't it be interesting if the new game forced EVERY player, not just experienced ones, to think about avoiding every attack with a planned dodge instead of just a block? It would make Melee kind of a transitional period. In Smash 64, the shield and roll were the defensive techniques. With Melee came the sidestep, air dodge, and wave dash (no matter what your opinion is about it) to make dodging more dynamic and plausible above just the roll, but shields were still included. Now, with the dodging mechanic refined, maybe they've decided to remove shields altogether.

Think about it. Wouldn't the game be a lot more fluid if characters couldn't suddenly just throw up a big bubble to protect themselves? It just seems really out of place and unnecessary to me, suddenly. Additionally, look at what is, theoretically, the new roll. Given, you can roll without a visible shield in Melee, but it really doesn't seem to me from the way it looks in Brawl that the shield even comes into rolling in any way.

It's kind of an exciting prospect (to me, at least).
Thoughts?

 

[yoshi_fan]

Itr will be SO dificult for the news to learn, i think

So it's very improbable (how it says that @_@)

 

[Toomai]

Shielding is one thing that makes Smash Bros. unique. It will never disappear.

 

[Keige]

I like your idea of removing the shield, but it's probably not going to happen. Making the shields invisible would be good. I hate how the characters have blocking animations but you can hardly see them because of some giant bubble.

 

[Tera253]

just make them more see-through, but NO, do NOT remove them.
Smash bros without good defensive techniques would suck.

defense>offense. (ever heard of attacking someone in defense of yourself?)

~Tera253~

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

eh. without shield... no I don't even want to think about it.

I really hope the shield is still there...

 

[Hoboman725]

It's an interesting idea, but you're forgetting that shielding an enemy attack, followed by a quick grab is a good offensive technique.

Regardless of whether or not getting rid of the shield defensively makes sense, it would mess with the mechanics of offense as well. I would not like to see the shield gotten rid of personally, but I'm sure if it was we could adapt.

 

[dizzy]

Shielding is one thing that makes Smash Bros. unique.

Because the damage system, DI, and ring-outs don't mean anything...?

 

[Toomai]

Because the damage system, DI, and ring-outs don't mean anything...?

Hey, I said shielding was ONE thing, and not neccessarily the most important.

 

[Pit 42]

I use the shield too much for me to want it to be eliminated. Sorry.

 

[dizzy]

Hey, I said shielding was ONE thing, and not neccessarily the most important.

Oh. Whoops.

 

[Jump20X6]

The reason smash is such a great game is that it is simple and complex at the same time. New players can pick up the game and have a great time. Meanwhile experienced players keep finding more strategies that add to the depth of gameplay. We have wavedashing, shffling, edgehogging, ect. But at the core of Melee is a very simple game. A game that has been the basis for countless other fighters.

That game is rock paper scissors.

There are 3 basic actions in smash. Attack. Block. Grab. A block with stop an attack. A grab will go through a shield. An attack with take priority over a grab. Rock. Paper. Scissors. This simple concept, combined with movement and a multitude of different attacks, builds infinite gameplay possibilities. Removing shielding from Smash would remove an essential piece of that puzzle.

It just won't happen.

 

[TheManaLord]

There mos def needs to be some form of blocking in this game. Just very preferably through a block stance/animation and not a **** 2d bubble.

 

[Keige]

There mos def needs to be some form of blocking in this game. Just very preferably through a block stance/animation and not a **** 2d bubble.

Exactly what I said.

 

[TheManaLord]

Ok? Good post you have there.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

hahah, theres NOOO way there wont be shileding in brawl, Sakurai isn't stupid.

Not to say that ''shieldless'' Super smash isn't an intresting idea, but I would probably hate it after like two matches.

I dunno I just don't see smash working without shielding, shield grabbing is one of the intergral parts of the game, and your ability to attack a shield without getting grabbed ties in to your success in a given match.

Also, shields in super smash are great because they get smaller so they arent even protecting you completly as you use the shield, and the concept of breaking someones shield is awesome, I love watching falcos pillaring in action, reducing the guys shield to a tiny fleck, giving him no way to defend himself from falcos unstopable shine combos.. cool stuff.

 

[Keige]

hahah, theres NOOO way there wont be shileding in brawl, Sakurai isn't stupid.

Not to say that ''shieldless'' Super smash isn't an intresting idea, but I would probably hate it after like two matches.

I dunno I just don't see smash working without shielding, shield grabbing is one of the intergral parts of the game, and your ability to attack a shield without getting grabbed ties in to your success in a given match.

Also, shields in super smash are great because they get smaller so they arent even protecting you completly as you use the shield, and the concept of breaking someones shield is awesome, I love watching falcos pillaring in action, reducing the guys shield to a tiny fleck, giving him no way to defend himself from falcos unstopable shine combos.. cool stuff.

True. I forgot to mention that. If the shield is turned invisible, you can't see how big it is or where it's blocking.

 

[Chepe]

Nah, I think that the shields were just absent in the trailers because Sakurai chose not to show them. I think it would have been a bit silly to show the bright pink bubble on Snake before he rolled around Pit to blast him away. A bit less badass, you know?

He probably just disabled them for the purpose of the trailer like he disabled star KOs, or he made it so the characters roll immediately after pressing the shield button so you couldnt see it...

 

[Tera253]

as people may have also noticed, many of the sounds, chracter make were gont too. you don't hear
Pikachu's 'pika' when he does the f-smash
Mario's 'yahoo!' when he does vB
Link and Mario's sreams when they went flying off the top from Kriby's ^A
Link's 'hyaaak' when he does ^B
who-knows-what with Wario, Pit, Meta-Knight, ZSS, and Snake
~Tera253~

 

[Sjakmachien]

as people may have also noticed, many of the sounds, chracter make were gont too. you don't hear
Pikachu's 'pika' when he does the f-smash
Mario's 'yahoo!' when he does vB
Link and Mario's sreams when they went flying off the top from Kriby's ^A
Link's 'hyaaak' when he does ^B
who-knows-what with Wario, Pit, Meta-Knight, ZSS, and Snake
~Tera253~

But you can hear the attacks themself very good, like the A attacks of Meta Knight, their awesome.

 

[dizzy]

Personally, I think the shield game is one of the most primitive and shallow aspects of SSBM. The fact that characters like Fox and Falco can exert constant pressure on the opponent's shield and leave no chance for counterattack or escape shows that the shields were rather poorly designed. When a player can muscle his way through the opponent's defenses simply by bashing the shield repeatedly until it shrinks or breaks, there's a problem. You shouldn't be able to get guaranteed free hits off of any blocked attack--the opponent needs to have some way to retaliate, even if the odds are stacked against him.

 

[Hoboman725]

If I remember correctly, can't you roll dodge out of the shield?

 

[Starmanclock]

The shields should have a glowing effect, except with certain characters such as Yoshi, which uses an egg.

 

[Stryks]

The shield has to stay, but Id rather like if they actually change the shield a little:

For mairo maybe he can make like a fire-force field around himself, I dont know
Mewtwo: He can make a barrier with his psychic powers
DK, would just do a defense-like pose and that will be the shield

I think sakurai should do something like this, cause I dont know, bubble-like shields aint very awesome IMO...

 

[dizzy]

If I remember correctly, can't you roll dodge out of the shield?

With regular pillaring, there's a small window where you can roll, but if Fox or Falco just JC shines over and over again, they can potentially trap the opponent in his own shield.

So I guess the problem partly lies with the broken-ness of the shine, but it doesn't mean the shield couldn't use some refinement.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Personally, I think the shield game is one of the most primitive and shallow aspects of SSBM. The fact that characters like Fox and Falco can exert constant pressure on the opponent's shield and leave no chance for counterattack or escape shows that the shields were rather poorly designed. When a player can muscle his way through the opponent's defenses simply by bashing the shield repeatedly until it shrinks or breaks, there's a problem. You shouldn't be able to get guaranteed free hits off of any blocked attack--the opponent needs to have some way to retaliate, even if the odds are stacked against him.

If I remember correctly, can't you roll dodge out of the shield?

With regular pillaring, there's a small window where you can roll, but if Fox or Falco just JC shines over and over again, they can potentially trap the opponent in his own shield.

So I guess the problem partly lies with the broken-ness of the shine, but it doesn't mean the shield couldn't use some refinement.

It isn't so much that the shielding system in Smash Bros. is innovative. It's more of a matter of usage. Everybody and their mother uses the shield in Smash---those that don't sometimes end up losing their matches with alarming frequency (if I am a little shallow with this statement, then I must apologize. I have truly and honestly never seen a player, pro or non-pro, not use a shield). However, as Dizzy pointed out, the shield is easily exploited; aside from Fox and Falco, just about every other character in the game can seriously harass shields in a bad way (though, admittedly, not as bad as the space animals).

There is a limited number of things you can do out of shields. As Hoboman pointed out, you can roll. However, you are easily punished because of this. If you sit there and linger, the shield will break and you'll be rendered helpless. Plus, some attacks can get under shields anyway and make worrying about character dizziness a moot point (Sheik, for instance, can get under shields with her dash attack if you time it right. Also, a tilted smash attack can get under shields as well. I will never forget when a **** good Mario F-smashed me right under my shield as he wavedashed forward and sent my Sheik packing for that stock). Counterattacking from shielding is also sorely limited to one option: Grabbing. We all know what shield-grabbing is, after all. Though pretty quick, it's still easily punished. Lord knows how many times I tried to employ that method and it fell flat (no doubt, a large part of it was due to the skill of the Smashers I've played with).

In other words, you're pretty much a painted and anchored down target when blocking in Melee.

Of course, I'm not saying that the shield should be revamped to such a point where it becomes godly. However, there are a couple of ideas that I've come up with. They seem heretical, but please. The likelihood seeing these ideas in Smash Bros. Brawl is nil, so don't flame my happy *** for it. Although opinions are nice.

The biggest draw of shielding is the lack of actions that a character can take, right? Well, suppose that a character can actually move along the ground while having his shield thrown up? One of my fondest wishes in Smash is to just be able to run right through some Falco's SHLs and then get up close and personal with him without getting pinged by his laser beams (spot dodging does little to negate constant spammage unless your reflexes are insane. Lol). 'S kinda like Baiken's "dashing block" move from GGX2, only the block is nowhere near as "impregnable" due to the fact that the shield would drain very quickly as a result (such an attribute, however, can be adjusted accorded to character discrepancies and advantages. It would be a pretty malleable trait). Dodging would still be more effective because it has invincibility frames, but a mobile blocking technique would add another degree of mindgames to the mix. The control scheme for this would be a little wonky and hard to implement, however.

Attacking from a shield can't be done, right? Well, another possible addition could be the ability to cancel the shield with plain old attacks rather than grabbing. I bet everybody who's shield poked would like to just pop out of their bubbles and whack somebody with a Smash attack, right? It's alot better than reaching out and grabbing. You just hold the block button and insert-button-command-for-regular-A-attack here. You could probably still grab somebody, too.

Again, these are just two possible ideas that won't go any farther than this forum. So don't look at me too harshly for it. The bottom line is, however, that the shielding system does need tweaked a bit but they do not need to take it out.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Falco&Victory]

If it was gone I couldn't do Falco's shielding shorthop laser camp though(lol, who here just decided to kill me?)

 

[petre]

what are you talking about? have you never heard of jump cancelling? you can jump out of your shield, then use any aerial. or, even faster, you can use your upsmash or your up+b directly out of a shield. youre definitely not limited to grabbing, although that is usually the preferred choice.

 

[NG7]

Personally, I think the shield game is one of the most primitive and shallow aspects of SSBM. The fact that characters like Fox and Falco can exert constant pressure on the opponent's shield and leave no chance for counterattack or escape shows that the shields were rather poorly designed.

Did you consider the fact that characters like Fox and Falco are actually broken?

I think that is more an issue of character balancing than a flaw of design in the shield.

 

[Bakemonky]

Did you consider the fact that characters like Fox and Falco are actually broken?

You have no idea how much I agree. I think people are in for a rude awakening when they try to play Fox and Falco (if he's in) in Brawl and realize that they will be nerfed.

Also, why are there forum topics that keep saying there is a "new roll" in the videos? I watched every video and I haven't seen any "new roll." It's the same old shield roll, but done by a character which we've never seen before, so it looks "new." And I know that in the videos they don't put up a shield before rolling, but that is possible on Melee. Just be quick.

 

[SHINE FX]

I don't really like that idea either. Shield being gone all together is too big of a change unless you replace the shield with another stationary defense technique like blocking (but not countering, that'd be too annoying). A more transparent primary shield would work best.

 

[dizzy]

Did you consider the fact that characters like Fox and Falco are actually broken?

I think that is more an issue of character balancing than a flaw of design in the shield.

With regular pillaring, there's a small window where you can roll, but if Fox or Falco just JC shines over and over again, they can potentially trap the opponent in his own shield.

So I guess the problem partly lies with the broken-ness of the shine, but it doesn't mean the shield couldn't use some refinement.

In a word, yes.

 

[Savedge]

they won't get rid of the bubble... the bubbles dank

 

[Blazer]

In the video the faster roll could just be dodge rolls that are executed quickly. Of course I can't slow down the videos so I could be wrong.

 

[Andromeda]

Nah, I don't think that the shield would be gone in Brawl. Why replace an already working defense-style with another one? Would it make any difference? Maybe to make it easier or harder to defend. But we just have to wait and see.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

what are you talking about? have you never heard of jump cancelling? you can jump out of your shield, then use any aerial. or, even faster, you can use your upsmash or your up+b directly out of a shield. youre definitely not limited to grabbing, although that is usually the preferred choice.

Good point, Petre. I didn't even think of JCing when I made the post, nor did I think of Up-Smashing or using an Up-B move out of a shield. It's probably because I usually don't resort to those kind of tactics with my Sheik; I usually stick-and-run/play aggressively, staying behind a shield only in sporadic intervals. My hubris/playstyle was doing some of the talking for me there, so that's the reason why I made blocking out to be more linear than what it really is.

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[Banks]

i think the most possible thing they would do is replace the bubbles with unique character sheilds along the lines of yoshis egg, different for everyone. but there will obv be sheilds either way

 

[lousantace]

how about having a mode where u can disable shields? that would take pacify both sides of this discussion

 

[Banks]

they could do that, or all ******* who don't want sheilds can agree to play without sheilds together. it can be called the ****** club. you can be prez.

 

[red stone]

i'm completely fine with the current sheild system , thank you very much