Countering Jigglypuff

[tphillips09]

Pikachu is my main character and I am having the hardest time against one of my friends who is really good with Jigglypuff. I have experimented with different characters and had varying success with Mario especially. He spams dair Usmash combo that is his main attack. He also has a fairly good grabbing game.

I find it hard to combo puffballs because they float so easily, and jigglypuff seems to have a strange ability to not get smashed off the screen at times.

I'd say we are about level 2-3 on the smash learning curve. Any tips or character suggestions?

(edit) also is there any way to escape the dair usmash combo?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Use up-air and back air on puff. Both of those have more range than puff's moves. Never get under puff... always stay to the side of puff. Puff can be comboed with up-airs or up-tilts.

Pika's up-tilt beats down-air, so if you see a down-air coming, time an up-tilt and then you can start an up-tilt chain > up-air chain.

If puff dairs you, mash up-B (Pika's recovery). Pika's up-B has invincibility frames while he is not moving, so up-smash will miss if Puff does it too late.

Pika is a good character to use against puff if you know the matchup...

 

[rpotts]

I agree with Blue Yoshi's post. Also, pikachu really should beat puff in the grabbing game, pik has a very long grab range and it's also tall, allowing him to grab characters in the air more easily. As BY said, Utilt should be your main counter to dair, as it has excellent priority and combos into itself. Combos like, Utilt x4, SH Uair, land, Upsmash, Down B work wonders against puff.

Also, Jiggly has really poor range and approach so if you space uairs and bairs jiggs can barely approach you.

Edgeguard with uair/bair/nair against a high recovery or fsmash/dtilt at ledge if jiggs is recovering low.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Pika vs Puff is a strange matchup... in that it is definitely a Pikachu advantage, but then again, it also comes down to whoever makes the least mistakes. One mistake by Pika vs a good puff will almost always lead to the loss of a stock (unless puff messes up). Basically, both players are playing a huge game of "don't get hit", while trying to hit the other player.

Basically, the bottom line is abuse Pika's range. If Pika plays this matchup properly and abuses range, preventing puff from getting a hit on him, then this match is already won... assuming Pika doesn't make many fatal mistakes.

 

[WOTG]

How about a way to counter Pikachu and Kirby while using Yoshi? Those are the only characters I have such a hard time fighting when I use Yoshi. Even against Pika and Kirby players that aren't even that good. It feels like all of Pikachu and Kirby's attacks completely overrun Yoshi, no matter what I do.

I've managed to beat a few Kirby players, but still never beat a Pikachu player with Yoshi.

 

[ballin4life]

Pika vs Puff is a strange matchup... in that it is definitely a Pikachu advantage, but then again, it also comes down to whoever makes the least mistakes. One mistake by Pika vs a good puff will almost always lead to the loss of a stock (unless puff messes up). Basically, both players are playing a huge game of "don't get hit", while trying to hit the other player.

Basically, the bottom line is abuse Pika's range. If Pika plays this matchup properly and abuses range, preventing puff from getting a hit on him, then this match is already won... assuming Pika doesn't make many fatal mistakes.

I feel like a lot of this is true for every matchup.

Also I don't think one hit on pika always leads to a loss of stock. Especially at mid high percents I think puff has trouble finishing pika. Fair bair and nair aren't always powerful enough to kill pika with his ridiculous recovery, so you need to hit either a dair utilt or smash which are harder to land. Bthrow will kill at high percents, but at mid percent bthrow won't kill and fthrow doesn't combo.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong though. Tips?

 

[ballin4life]

How about a way to counter Pikachu and Kirby while using Yoshi? Those are the only characters I have such a hard time fighting when I use Yoshi. Even against Pika and Kirby players that aren't even that good. It feels like all of Pikachu and Kirby's attacks completely overrun Yoshi, no matter what I do.

I've managed to beat a few Kirby players, but still never beat a Pikachu player with Yoshi.

How good are you at approaching with DJCs? Can you DJCC well?

 

[Zen Yore]

jigglypuff is weak when you're above her
dont get utilt'd tho

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I was exagerating... but yes, you're right. At higher percents, it's harder to combo pika. But more or less, one good hit usually leads to a kill.

Maybe I should have worded it as "one good hit usually leads to a kill".

 

[WOTG]

How good are you at approaching with DJCs? Can you DJCC well?

I would say I am. I can DJC like any other Yoshi, can Parry and Shieldbreak, not as constantly as sheer of course.
I just can't seem to find a way around the priority of Pikachu and Kirby's attacks when using Yoshi.

 

[SSBPete]

Pika vs Puff is a strange matchup... in that it is definitely a Pikachu advantage, but then again, it also comes down to whoever makes the least mistakes. One mistake by Pika vs a good puff will almost always lead to the loss of a stock (unless puff messes up). Basically, both players are playing a huge game of "don't get hit", while trying to hit the other player.

Basically, the bottom line is abuse Pika's range. If Pika plays this matchup properly and abuses range, preventing puff from getting a hit on him, then this match is already won... assuming Pika doesn't make many fatal mistakes.

i would disagree. puff is probly one of the best characters to play against pika because of the easy dair utilt utilt utilt down-b.
you could escape jiggs' dair with good di or just spam up-b.

I would say I am. I can DJC like any other Yoshi, can Parry and Shieldbreak, not as constantly as sheer of course.
I just can't seem to find a way around the priority of Pikachu and Kirby's attacks when using Yoshi.

i find it particularly easy to beat kirby with yoshi but extremely hard to pika.
for kirby when hes recovoring try getting above and b-down sweetspot, kirby has a hugh lack of priority from his up-b. also if they try to go over you, wait on the ground and b-down and use that quick height to counter. use djc bair alot because of the range and remember utilt links to uair which kills kirby on lower percentages. if they spam dair, be patient, usmash has equal or more priority so u will only get hit by the first drill.

 

[SheerMadness]

Pick Yoshi vs Jiggly and break their shield.

I would say I am. I can DJC like any other Yoshi, can Parry and Shieldbreak, not as constantly as sheer of course.
I just can't seem to find a way around the priority of Pikachu and Kirby's attacks when using Yoshi.

Neutral b is good vs both kirby and pikachu. Dash attack is great vs Kirby and good vs Pika. I used to be bad vs Pika and Kirby but after you've been playing Yoshi for 4 years online you learn how to play them. =]

Join my game on kaillera and watch me play a Pika or Kirby, it always helps to watch someone else play chars you struggle vs.

 

[NixxxoN]

Use Luigi to **** puff.

 

[JaimeHR]

Use DK to **** puff.

bair, dair, fair or nair at 0% > cargo grab > jump > throw > Giant punch = Jiggly is dead unless he releases from the cargo grab or you miss the Giant punch.

 

[ciaza]

i would disagree. puff is probly one of the best characters to play against pika because of the easy dair utilt utilt utilt down-b.
you could escape jiggs' dair with good di or just spam up-b.

I take it you skipped Blue Yoshi's first post?

 

[tphillips09]

Will you really be able to get off an up b in the limited time between the dair and upsmash? Same thing with directional influencing?

DI? would that just be pressing the analog stick down repeatedly after his dair?

Yeah I wonder if he could chain it into a longer combo with utilt instead of upsmash right away. I might try that myself.

I didn't think pika's uptilt had that much priority but I will try it out. It is tricky to time though, he is very shifty with his jumps, we play a lot of mind games--him trying to dair me and me z rolling on the ground waiting to grab him.

 

[asianaussie]

Yeah I wonder if he could chain it into a longer combo with utilt instead of upsmash right away. I might try that myself.

U-Tilt goes into U-Air/Rest. From the U-Air, you can go into Rest/another U-Air at lower percentages, then into a Rest. Basically, you can go into a Rest.

I didn't think pika's uptilt had that much priority but I will try it out. It is tricky to time though, he is very shifty with his jumps, we play a lot of mind games--him trying to dair me and me z rolling on the ground waiting to grab him.

Don't roll so much, it's very predictable, even at lower levels. Jump and U-Air him if he's bouncing around up there, you should outprioritise him, and that should teach him to stop it. Or you can wait until he exhausts his jumps and time an U-Tilt, which should go through D-Air if timed well (?).

i find it particularly easy to beat kirby with yoshi but extremely hard to pika.

This probably means you haven't played good Kirbies. I find they're Yoshi's worst matchup (Pika second worst). Then again, I don't play Yoshi as much anymore.

On the subject of other characters, you can use Fox and laser spam to force approach against Puff, then jab > U-Smash when you can. Luigi getting an U-Air on Puff when she's at 30-50% means a jump into an Up-B. DK can finish Puff well, as Jaime already wrote.

Pika's tail has huge priority, U-Tilt + U-Air should own Puff, who has little but N-Air in terms of priority.

 

[NixxxoN]

bair, dair, fair or nair at 0% > cargo grab > jump > throw > Giant punch = Jiggly is dead unless he releases from the cargo grab or you miss the Giant punch.

Lol you're right... seems to work even better than Luigi... although some people get off dk's grab real quick... like less than 2 seconds <.<

 

[DMoogle]

Make sure you don't DI to the wall when Jiggly is drilling you. Like I've made a habit of.

 

[SSBPete]

I take it you skipped Blue Yoshi's first post?

haha i just usually skim over posts.