Cornellian Research Facility

[Kuares]

“Boosts, Brakes, and Sumer-salts”​

​

Fox Meta-Game and Move-set Discussion​

So since there's not a real place to discuss Fox's gameplay, I thought it'd be good to make this thread.

The goal here is to get people talking about how to use Fox's moves and other techniques in more ways than one. Every week or so I'll plan on discussing a particular move in this list and it's uses. I'll be keeping this updated with quotes, you tube links or summaries.

I'll update this to look prettier later.
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A: Ground
---------------
1.Jab

-Jab Cancel​

2.F-tilt

-Lock Capabilities​

3.U-tilt

-Good Range
-Kill move at high damage(150%)
-Up-tilt Lock​

4.D-tilt

-Tripping(?)
-Shield Poking(?)​

5.F-smash

-Land Punishing​

6.U-smash

-Kill Move
-The back end has a surprising hitbox
-Jump Cancel'ed Up-smash​

7.D-smash

-Roll Punishing​

8.Dash Attack

-Follow Up​

B: Aerial
---------------
1.N-air

-Edge guard tool
-Little landing lag
-Lock Capabilities​

2.F-air

-Rising Fair
-Auto-cancels in Short-hop​

3.B-air

-Kill move
-Amazing frame data
-Auto-cancels in Short-hop​

4.U-air

-Kill move
-Auto-cancels in Short-hop
-Good for attacking people on platforms close to the ground.​

5.D-air

-Combos into numerous attacks
-Auto-cancels in Full Jump​

6. Footstool

-Edge guard tool​

C: Special
---------------
1.Laser

-Short Hop(Single, Double, Triple) laser
-Silent laser
-Ledge Drop laser
-B-reverse laser​

2.Illusion

-Illusion Cancel
-Ledge Drop Illusion
-Scarring​

3.Firefox

-Best angle IMO is at 30 degrees
-90 degree Recovery onto stage(?)​

4.Reflector

-Reflects Projectiles
-Stops Jump height increase
-Stalling
-Projectile Cancel
-Beats Spot Dodgers
-Sets up moves
-Edge guarding
-Wall Shine
-Aerial Wall Shine
-Momentum Cancel(?)​

D: Other
---------------
1.Shield

-Out of shield Up smash
-Out of shield Platform Drop​

2.Grab

-Shield Grab
-Reverse Pivot Grab
-Dash Attack Canceled Grab​

3.Item

-Dash Attack Canceled Item Toss?
-Glide Toss​

4.Misc

-Platform Canceling​

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Good stuff to read:
-Fox Frames along with an -older version but with Special's
-Frame data Directory
-Dodge Frame Data

 

[Kuares]

Reserved post and such.

First things I want to discuss is the Drill.

I only see it used in one way and that's out of a short hop but there's more ways that that. There's Full jump AC dair, Full jump AC dair onto a platform and drilling off the edge. The uses for these are pretty different.

I haven't been able to mess around with either Full Jump dairs but the Frame data looks pretty good for them.

Off the ledge dair, I drilled a Falco into a shine for a kill at a mid percent. I was tired at the time but it might be fairly useful vs some characters.

 

[crifer]

Dair:

- Comes out on frame 5 afaik (which is pretty fast)
- setup for many moves (utilt, grab, jab, usmash, shine etc.), even though not safe @ low %
- Falco sideB is easily gimped by it by running of the edge and doing a rising full hop dair back onto the stage. works pretty good for me.
- fullhop shine offstage and wait fpr the enemy while shining gives a good opportunity to gimp many characters (Bowser, DK, falco, wolf, fox, diddy etc)
. REALLY UNDERRATED FOR PUNISHING ON SHIELD MOVES (especially against characters with low-mid range moves)
- should be used to punish (like air dodges to the ground), not to approach
- beats mk´s glide attack
- a good shield pressure after a bair that hit the enemys shield
- retreating dair can prevent mk´s dash attack, dash grab and falco´s side B.
- FH dair is good if the opponent is above you on a platform

that´s all what I can think ybout now....

edit: - you can sh rising dair D3´s shield and space it that he can NOT grab you after that. (although only few hits land on D3´s shield)

 

[Lightning93]

Good idea. Will contribute later!

 

[Kuares]

Dair:
- Comes out on frame 5 afaik (which is pretty fast)
- Set-up for many moves (utilt, grab, jab, usmash, shine etc.), even though not safe @ low %
- should be used to punish (like air dodges to the ground), not to approach
- a good shield pressure after a bair that hit the enemy's shield
- FH dair is good if the opponent is above you on a platform
- REALLY UNDERRATED FOR PUNISHING ON SHIELD MOVES (especially against characters with low-mid range moves)

Character Specific:
- Beats mk´s glide attack
- Retreating dair can prevent mk´s dash attack, dash grab.
- Falco sideB is easily gimped by it by running of the edge and doing a rising full hop dair back onto the stage. works pretty good for me.
- you can sh rising dair D3´s shield and space it that he can NOT grab you after that. (although only few hits land on D3´s shield)

Shine?:
- FH shine offstage and wait for the enemy while shining gives a good opportunity to gimp many characters (Bowser, DK, falco, wolf, fox, diddy etc)

Thanks! I agree that SH Dair should mostly be used as a counter move. From what I've seen it used as an approach at 0-20%(not specific), it's always followed up with an Up-tilt which are mostly shielded and then punished. I should add the frame data here somewhere.

Could you explain what you meant by Retreating Dair prevents Mk's dash attack and grab? Is Fox's back to MK as he drills or is it something else?

And since you brought it up, by FH shine you mean shine stalling offstage and waiting for the opponents recovery action? To me that just seems like you want Fox to get meteor'd, I'd rather wait on stage and try to do something there. Not really much to do there though so it might be an idea.

 

[Nefarious B]

does dair combo into footstool if you do the full drill?

 

[crifer]

Thanks! I agree that SH Dair should mostly be used as a counter move. From what I've seen it used as an approach at 0-20%(not specific), it's always followed up with an Up-tilt which are mostly shielded and then punished. I should add the frame data here somewhere.

Could you explain what you meant by Retreating Dair prevents Mk's dash attack and grab? Is Fox's back to MK as he drills or is it something else?

And since you brought it up, by FH shine you mean shine stalling offstage and waiting for the opponents recovery action? To me that just seems like you want Fox to get meteor'd, I'd rather wait on stage and try to do something there. Not really much to do there though so it might be an idea.

mk´s dash attack and dash grab give him a lot of momentum and by (while facing him) doing a rising sh dair away from his dash attack you prevent getting hit because you´re out of his hitbox while at the same time giving the option to hit with dair. If he does a shield dash you´re probably out of range of a shield grab and if timed right, you´re out of range of his fair. pretty good defensive movement. honestly, if he walks it does not work :D

If you hit DK/Bowser etc with a dsmash or bair they´re probably forced to recover low, which makes shine stalling offstage pretty safe.

@ nefariousB: I don´t think so...but I´m not quite sure.

 

[Chef Fox]

does dair combo into footstool if you do the full drill?

Yes sometimes it does, but you have to start the drill early in my experience and only hit them with the last few hits, and fast falling is an issue, depends on the character. The other person might also SDI out of the Dair, which almost makes the footstool impossible.