• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Core-A Gaming: Drugs and Competitive Gaming


Core-A Gaming, the folks who raised discussion over if we should stop playing side by side, has created another analysis video discussing another hard topic: Drugs and Competitive Gaming. In it comes many insights to a current problem within the eSports world and raises discussions on how it might be handled. Give it a watch!


Has this changed any opinions on how to handle the problem? What is the way forward? Discuss in the comments below and stay tuned to Smashboards for future hard hitting videos.

Editor's Note: Guys, keep it civil in the comments. This is a topic that needs discussing but let's not let it get out of hand with bad jokes or potential accusations. Thank you.
 

Comments

Smash itself is a drug. Expensive habit to maintain with all the tournament costs, its addictive, feels good shooting through your veins etc.
 
Last edited:
As a person that plays both physical outside sports as well as e-sports, a strong message should totally be made to discourage this. Right now, I would say that e-sports in general is looked at as a kid thing or maybe a high school or college age hobby, and isn't taken as seriously as it should. As a 38 year old gamer, drugs used during e-sports makes it more difficult for me and my efforts at gameplay to be better accepted by others as legitimate. I really don't want this to be looked at as something you are known to do while getting high. I would love if more over age 30 players were common just like in physical sports.
 
What are they gonna do, start drug testing at tournaments?

Like half of the top players would most likely no longer be able to play anymore
 
Marijuana and video games go hand in hand. To hell with anyone who wants pot banned
well i mean yeah but to hell man that's harsh not the chill weed mentality let it be we will persevere
Melee maybe, but not Sm4sh. Drugging is just ridiculous anyways.
Such blatant fanboyism based on conjecture.
Smash itself is a drug. Expensive habit to maintain with all the tournament costs, its addictive, feels good shooting through your veins etc.
Not so much smash in their case, but community! It is a powerful drug. Healthy one, too.
As a person that plays both physical outside sports as well as e-sports, a strong message should totally be made to discourage this. Right now, I would say that e-sports in general is looked at as a kid thing or maybe a high school or college age hobby, and isn't taken as seriously as it should. As a 38 year old gamer, drugs used during e-sports makes it more difficult for me and my efforts at gameplay to be better accepted by others as legitimate. I really don't want this to be looked at as something you are known to do while getting high. I would love if more over age 30 players were common just like in physical sports.
Friends, it's ultimately up to TOs. They've got a vested interest in seeing eSports grow. If not, there's nothing that can be done, without violating TO's / persons' natural rights that is.
 
Right now increasing awareness and providing impartial information to event leaders, competitors, and spectators would be the proper steps to addressing the topic.

As much as I detest Big Pharma and abhor the destructive effects commercial medicine can have on people, I am also a strong supporter of personal freedom and liberty.

Right now I will simply state that if people want to use 'performance enhancers' (caffeine, adderall, hot cocoa, yoga, etc) then they should be free to make that choice and to suffer the consequences of that choice, good or bad.

I'm not against rules discouraging specific compounds from being used by competitors, nor am I against competitors being penalized for using specific compounds. But I'd rather not see required drug testing or other costly requirements.
 
I see a junkie with his dirty pot-needle still hanging out of his arm all the time at my local weekly. I can't STAND to see that at a children's game tournament!
 
This is a topic I could rant about for days on end, especially as someone with ADHD. Just for some background on myself, I'm 28 but haven't taken medication for my ADHD since I was maybe 8 when Ritalin was pretty much your only option. Anyone who ever took Ritalin could tell you how bad it was. For starters, it was super addictive for most people and, if you didn't take it, you'd crash and burn pretty hard, as in your motivation would go in the toilet and you'd only want to just sit or sleep for ridiculous amounts of time. My parents finally took me off it when they realized that it significantly altered my personality and was the source of extreme moodswings ranging from total rage to complete lethargy.

I mention this because Adderall wasn't something I even knew about until college. It's sort of the elephant in the room in American colleges nowadays because the longterm effects are starting to be seen. It's no small secret that a lot of college students use Adderall. Need to pull an all-nighter? Just pop an Adderall. Need to write a term paper in a few hours? Adderall. If you have ADHD, it makes you function like a normal person but if you're already there, it practically turns you into a super human. With high stakes scholarships and student loans, it's really no wonder so many people are turning to this but a storm that's brewing is that these same students are continuing to use Adderall when they enter the workforce.

Like any kind of drug addiction, if you overuse it or use it for specific things, you become dependent on it. Students wanting to make the dean's list are becoming employees who want to climb the corporate ladder and using the same method. Got a high stakes presentation to show to the boss? Just pop an Adderall. Need to complete a quarter project in less than a weekend? Adderall. These same people are slowly becoming so dependent on it that they're practically making themselves worse than people with ADHD in the process. I've lived my whole life with ADHD so I know how to manage it but these people are getting thrown out to sea.

To put ADHD in crude terms, it usually takes on three major forms: you have the attention span of a gold fish, you have the self control of a gerbil, or a grand mixture of both. Of course, either of these can make life problematic. Your memory takes a hit. You might have moodswings. Sleep problems are very common. Impulsive behavior (especially addiction and anger issues) are very common. It's even been shown to manifest in even uglier ways such as antisocial tendencies, both the avoiding people type and the "being an A-hole is hilarious" type. So, what's happening is we're winding up with adults who are pretty much burning out their brains and swandiving in the wonderful word of debilitating mental illness.

Back to what I mentioned earlier, it's the elephant in the room in colleges because it's well known that students abuse it but... the administrators aren't exactly unhappy about this. More students with better grades make the university look better even if it's technically "cheating." This is why drug use in professional sports is usually approached in such a limp wristed way. Performance enhancing drugs produce the results everyone wants.

A grand example of this is what happened to American baseball nearly two decades ago. The sport was on the decline nationally and many people were wondering if football was simply going to push it into complete irrelevancy. Then Mark Mcgwire of the St. Louis Cardinals and Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs had a back and force slugfest to break the single season homerun record, something that hadn't even really been challenged in nearly 40 years. Growing up in St. Louis, this was incredibly exciting and the whole country was watching these two go at it. No American baseball fan will deny that this Homerun race saved the sport on a national level and made it culturally relevant again.

Now, people weren't dumb and most people suspected something was going on. Mcgwire had a neck that looked like a goddamn slab of roast beef and Sosa was freakishly buff too. Most people didn't care though. Even when the both of them were ratted out, their cities still loved them, even if their records now had to have asterisks next to them at the Hall of Fame. They got the results people wanted and most people shrugged off the ethical implications. This became even more apparent when Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants toppled Mcgwire's record only a few years later despite also being hilariously huge. Again, most people didn't care because it was exciting to watch and it made money pour in like water.

The relation to this story and E-sports should be more than apparent at this point. E-sports are getting bigger and bigger and tournaments that were once largely esoteric except to the most die hard fans are now getting worldwide attention and are starting to put many televised major league sports to shame. It's amazing but at the same time it all ties back to what people are willing to do stay on top. It could be argued that the game changing is pushing players to do this. It could be argued that it's simply human nature to want to be the best, even if it involves cheating. The problem is that it's becoming an ever growing problem that people are sacrificing their long term health for some key tournament wins over a couple of years.

Beyond E-sports, this is becoming a far reaching problem because standards are being raised and competition is becoming more fierce for just about everything. In my lifetime, getting a bachelor's degree has basically become a formality and most employers still DGAF unless you come from a better school. It's one of the harsh realities that pushed me to get a master's. We're humans who wish we were super humans but instead of allowing incremental progress or accepting our limitations, we want results as quickly as possible, even if it means long term problems later. This being said, it's hard to say how exactly to approach this problem beyond admitting that it's a problem. The science of widespread performance enhancing drug use is still fairly young and the first tangible dark clouds have only shown up in the past 5-10 years so, while it's a discussion that definitely needs to be had, it's hard to say where we ought to go from here.
 
This is a topic I could rant about for days on end, especially as someone with ADHD. Just for some background on myself, I'm 28 but haven't taken medication for my ADHD since I was maybe 8 when Ritalin was pretty much your only option. Anyone who ever took Ritalin could tell you how bad it was. For starters, it was super addictive for most people and, if you didn't take it, you'd crash and burn pretty hard, as in your motivation would go in the toilet and you'd only want to just sit or sleep for ridiculous amounts of time. My parents finally took me off it when they realized that it significantly altered my personality and was the source of extreme moodswings ranging from total rage to complete lethargy.

I mention this because Adderall wasn't something I even knew about until college. It's sort of the elephant in the room in American colleges nowadays because the longterm effects are starting to be seen. It's no small secret that a lot of college students use Adderall. Need to pull an all-nighter? Just pop an Adderall. Need to write a term paper in a few hours? Adderall. If you have ADHD, it makes you function like a normal person but if you're already there, it practically turns you into a super human. With high stakes scholarships and student loans, it's really no wonder so many people are turning to this but a storm that's brewing is that these same students are continuing to use Adderall when they enter the workforce.

Like any kind of drug addiction, if you overuse it or use it for specific things, you become dependent on it. Students wanting to make the dean's list are becoming employees who want to climb the corporate ladder and using the same method. Got a high stakes presentation to show to the boss? Just pop an Adderall. Need to complete a quarter project in less than a weekend? Adderall. These same people are slowly becoming so dependent on it that they're practically making themselves worse than people with ADHD in the process. I've lived my whole life with ADHD so I know how to manage it but these people are getting thrown out to sea.

To put ADHD in crude terms, it usually takes on three major forms: you have the attention span of a gold fish, you have the self control of a gerbil, or a grand mixture of both. Of course, either of these can make life problematic. Your memory takes a hit. You might have moodswings. Sleep problems are very common. Impulsive behavior (especially addiction and anger issues) are very common. It's even been shown to manifest in even uglier ways such as antisocial tendencies, both the avoiding people type and the "being an A-hole is hilarious" type. So, what's happening is we're winding up with adults who are pretty much burning out their brains and swandiving in the wonderful word of debilitating mental illness.

Back to what I mentioned earlier, it's the elephant in the room in colleges because it's well known that students abuse it but... the administrators aren't exactly unhappy about this. More students with better grades make the university look better even if it's technically "cheating." This is why drug use in professional sports is usually approached in such a limp wristed way. Performance enhancing drugs produce the results everyone wants.

A grand example of this is what happened to American baseball nearly two decades ago. The sport was on the decline nationally and many people were wondering if football was simply going to push it into complete irrelevancy. Then Mark Mcgwire of the St. Louis Cardinals and Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs had a back and force slugfest to break the single season homerun record, something that hadn't even really been challenged in nearly 40 years. Growing up in St. Louis, this was incredibly exciting and the whole country was watching these two go at it. No American baseball fan will deny that this Homerun race saved the sport on a national level and made it culturally relevant again.

Now, people weren't dumb and most people suspected something was going on. Mcgwire had a neck that looked like a goddamn slab of roast beef and Sosa was freakishly buff too. Most people didn't care though. Even when the both of them were ratted out, their cities still loved them, even if their records now had to have asterisks next to them at the Hall of Fame. They got the results people wanted and most people shrugged off the ethical implications. This became even more apparent when Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants toppled Mcgwire's record only a few years later despite also being hilariously huge. Again, most people didn't care because it was exciting to watch and it made money pour in like water.

The relation to this story and E-sports should be more than apparent at this point. E-sports are getting bigger and bigger and tournaments that were once largely esoteric except to the most die hard fans are now getting worldwide attention and are starting to put many televised major league sports to shame. It's amazing but at the same time it all ties back to what people are willing to do stay on top. It could be argued that the game changing is pushing players to do this. It could be argued that it's simply human nature to want to be the best, even if it involves cheating. The problem is that it's becoming an ever growing problem that people are sacrificing their long term health for some key tournament wins over a couple of years.

Beyond E-sports, this is becoming a far reaching problem because standards are being raised and competition is becoming more fierce for just about everything. In my lifetime, getting a bachelor's degree has basically become a formality and most employers still DGAF unless you come from a better school. It's one of the harsh realities that pushed me to get a master's. We're humans who wish we were super humans but instead of allowing incremental progress or accepting our limitations, we want results as quickly as possible, even if it means long term problems later. This being said, it's hard to say how exactly to approach this problem beyond admitting that it's a problem. The science of widespread performance enhancing drug use is still fairly young and the first tangible dark clouds have only shown up in the past 5-10 years so, while it's a discussion that definitely needs to be had, it's hard to say where we ought to go from here.
I'm doped daily with like 40mg of ritalin and I was on 54mg of concerta in the past, my ADHD only got worse as the years go by, in fact my memory and focus are so horrible that I had to drop out of a university bacc, even after 70+Hours of studying per week out of classes. I'm a complete ****** with a brain that moves at the speed of a snail when it tries to process info, I was doing 80% and 90% on my exams but I would've done higher if I had time to even finish. The sheer amount of time I had to put into studying burned me out, then depression came... and my GPA fell into the trashbin. Ritalin may be disgusting and horrible but I can at least keep up with it.

Banning prescriptions would really suck for people like me.
 
Last edited:
I could never over use my Vyvanse for a tournament like this, I'd ****ing crash and burn before the thing even ended. I can't even use it for most of my classes nowadays because they're so spread out.

I have like 3-5 hours of hyperness before I literally crash burn and need to go home.

So this isn't an issue for me, I wouldn't take it regardless, I think. Still whatever happens, I hope it gets sorted out.
 
To continue on in a Foghorn Leghorn fashion, convincing the Smash community that drug use is a problem because, let's face it, we strongly value "the Hype." For American football fans, this is why some people will go to games in full costume and body paint while for us this is why we will willingly record ourselves literally screaming and crying with joy over fictional character reveals and post them online for everyone to see. Hype is a big part of competitive sports. Sakurai could have sold some of his internal organs to get Cloud in Smash and most Smash fans probably wouldn't bat an eye. In the same vein, if a Ganondorf player ran away with Apex , most of us would be crapping ourselves with excitement, even if it was revealed he only curb stomped Zero because he was using a drug cocktail called Deeznutzifan. Unless the guy died soon after the event, it would be hard to convince people that what he did was a bad thing and professional sports have this problem all the time. Studies are pouring in about how professional athletes basically destroy their bodies just to play the sports at a high level, making their bodies and minds age decades before their time and yet we're throwing kids into this stuff as early as Kindergarten. Why? People value the Hype. It exists at EVO. It exists at a high school football game in Pigfart, Alabama. Competition just satisfies something incredibly instinctual in the human psyche and even when trying to measure up is literally killing competitors or at the very least lessening their quality of life, many people don't want to sacrifice it.
 
I've had an adderall prescription pretty much my entire life.

I'm not so sure adderall is advantageous because it helps you a better player. I personally feel I always play better when I haven't taken it.
It makes me more prone to fall into repetitive behavior, which is something you want to avoid in smash.

The thing is though, any sort of tourny event is stupid long. Staying on top of it for one set? Thats not hard.
But keeping your A game when you've been playing for 5 hours?

That I think is where adderall really has its role in competative gaming, and where you'll find it influencing results.
 
Last edited:
I take Vyvanse for my ADHD(low 10mg dose, higher than that and it screws with my appetite too much), on top of other doctor suggested pain meds, and motion sickness medication for dizzyness.

Honestly, as long as they don't screw the people who actually need the medication, I'm all for them doing something about the ones who use it for "personal gain". But the moment they mess with the people that have health problems and need the medication, then they'll be crossing the line.
 
I'm doped daily with like 40mg of ritalin and I was on 54mg of concerta in the past, my ADHD only got worse as the years go by, in fact my memory and focus are so horrible that I had to drop out of a university bacc, even after 70+Hours of studying per week out of classes. I'm a complete ****** with a brain that moves at the speed of a snail when it tries to process info, I was doing 80% and 90% on my exams but I would've done higher if I had time to even finish. The sheer amount of time I had to put into studying burned me out, then depression came... and my GPA fell into the trashbin. Ritalin may be disgusting and horrible but I can at least keep up with it.

Banning prescriptions would really suck for people like me.

Thing is though, no one is talking about banning prescriptions; medicine prescribed by a doctor for a legitimate medical reason. There's exemptions to it, like in any traditional sport, provided you support it with documentation and monitoring.

What this video is bringing up is the abuse of Adderall and even harder drugs, like cocaine and methampetamine. People will routinely abuse these to gain a competitive edge in sports and competition. Adderall is used to treat ADHD, which is fine, but if you don't have ADHD, you're a) obtaining a controlled narcotic illegally, and b) using it as a means to gain an edge you wouldn't otherwise have had to begin with. It has no place in traditional sports, much like it doesn't have a place in eSports.

Common sense is what needs to be used in order to audit and police participants in eSports. Drinking hot cocoa or having a Monster isn't truly gaining a competitive edge. Yes, caffeine increases your ability to focus and fight fatigue, but it's also an OTC, widely-consumed drug with no regulation at any level, unlike Adderall or harder drugs. It isn't going to do what Adderall does to human body, nor is it's dependence or addictiveness nearly as high. Certainly, it is addictive, but not to the point of Adderall, which is why it's a prescribed and controlled drug.

eSports definitely needs to get on the ball with this. Much like traditional sports taking an authoratative stance against using these drugs to gain an edge against competition, we as a community should be as well, especially when our particular community is filled with young competitors at the teenage and preteen level. It's sends the wrong message entirely to adoscelents if we do nothing and keep quiet. It sends the wrong message to those outside of the community who already attempt to paint eSports as nothing more than a brain-destroying waste of time more ammunition to be right. We should working to advance our passion, not working to sweep it's imperfections under the rug.

And for those advocating marijuana use, you guys are just dumb. Marijuana does not give you the ability to focus or 'get hype'. Marijuana is a depressant, not a stimulant. It has routinely been shown to lower reaction times, decrease memory capability, and overall lower your performance in any competitive setting. About the only thing I can see it be advocated for is stress management, that's really about it. You're otherwise kidding yourself if you toke up an hour before a tournament thinking it will help you with focus and gain a competitive edge. It might help calm your nerves, if anything, but it certainly won't help when you're getting bodied by Meta Knight. Plus, you smell like **** and we all know you just did it.
 
Thing is though, no one is talking about banning prescriptions; medicine prescribed by a doctor for a legitimate medical reason. There's exemptions to it, like in any traditional sport, provided you support it with documentation and monitoring.

What this video is bringing up is the abuse of Adderall and even harder drugs, like cocaine and methampetamine. People will routinely abuse these to gain a competitive edge in sports and competition. Adderall is used to treat ADHD, which is fine, but if you don't have ADHD, you're a) obtaining a controlled narcotic illegally, and b) using it as a means to gain an edge you wouldn't otherwise have had to begin with. It has no place in traditional sports, much like it doesn't have a place in eSports.

Common sense is what needs to be used in order to audit and police participants in eSports. Drinking hot cocoa or having a Monster isn't truly gaining a competitive edge. Yes, caffeine increases your ability to focus and fight fatigue, but it's also an OTC, widely-consumed drug with no regulation at any level, unlike Adderall or harder drugs. It isn't going to do what Adderall does to human body, nor is it's dependence or addictiveness nearly as high. Certainly, it is addictive, but not to the point of Adderall, which is why it's a prescribed and controlled drug.

eSports definitely needs to get on the ball with this. Much like traditional sports taking an authoratative stance against using these drugs to gain an edge against competition, we as a community should be as well, especially when our particular community is filled with young competitors at the teenage and preteen level. It's sends the wrong message entirely to adoscelents if we do nothing and keep quiet. It sends the wrong message to those outside of the community who already attempt to paint eSports as nothing more than a brain-destroying waste of time more ammunition to be right. We should working to advance our passion, not working to sweep it's imperfections under the rug.

And for those advocating marijuana use, you guys are just dumb. Marijuana does not give you the ability to focus or 'get hype'. Marijuana is a depressant, not a stimulant. It has routinely been shown to lower reaction times, decrease memory capability, and overall lower your performance in any competitive setting. About the only thing I can see it be advocated for is stress management, that's really about it. You're otherwise kidding yourself if you toke up an hour before a tournament thinking it will help you with focus and gain a competitive edge. It might help calm your nerves, if anything, but it certainly won't help when you're getting bodied by Meta Knight. Plus, you smell like **** and we all know you just did it.
Not to be that guy or anything, but since the effects of weed alter depending on the takers belief and knowledge of said effects, it's far more plausible for it to actually have a positive effect on smash gameplay. Especially since there is plenty of research showing that it helps boost creative thinking on demand and can assist in processing information outside of the eye's main focus, which without a doubt is a boon for a game in this style.

Another point worth mentioning is that there are two separate chemicals coming from two separate types of weed and growing requirements.
 
Last edited:
I'm doped daily with like 40mg of ritalin and I was on 54mg of concerta in the past, my ADHD only got worse as the years go by, in fact my memory and focus are so horrible that I had to drop out of a university bacc, even after 70+Hours of studying per week out of classes. I'm a complete ****** with a brain that moves at the speed of a snail when it tries to process info, I was doing 80% and 90% on my exams but I would've done higher if I had time to even finish. The sheer amount of time I had to put into studying burned me out, then depression came... and my GPA fell into the trashbin. Ritalin may be disgusting and horrible but I can at least keep up with it.

Banning prescriptions would really suck for people like me.
No one's asking for a ban on prescriptions but, for people like you, you might have noticed in recent years that it's been harder to convince your doctor that you need it. That's because of the abuse and no doctor wants to be on the end of a lawsuit when they find out that someone is making bank during Finals Week selling their prescription (the classic/naive argument being "they clearly don't need those drugs if they're selling them to their classmates."). For people like you, these drugs aren't recreational and you need them to focus with daily activities, not knock out a double digit paper in the time it takes most people to watch a movie on Netflix. Convincing people that ADHD is even real is still a struggle, even in the medical community, so people abusing these drugs has made the argument that much harder to make.
 
Just ban it as a community and blacklist the ones using it for 2 years, meaning they cant enter tournaments for 2 years. Use the dosage parameters that traditional sports use.
 
I'll throw a parental point of view to the mix. Most of us probably had a parent pushing you to learn to play an instrument or a sport. Imagine why a parent would probably not push you to do e-sports. In my day, my mother figured it out easily. I would rather my kid play video games at home than be out getting drunk or getting high. But if gaming is synonymous with illegal drug use, what parent would ever encourage their kid to get into it? But imagine if just 10 percent of parents would suddenly see video games in general as a positive for their kid? How much more would the community as a whole improve? If competitive gaming was that much more popular, it would blow up beyond expectations. But if parents see it as just a game where kids go get high, it would not grow to the same heights.
Local scenes should just advertise that it should be illegal drug free at these events, same as any other sport. If TO's push this, the positive message would do far more good. I am thinking of both now and future growth. Thoughts?
 
We can speak of this topic all the 2016 and have no results... What so ever is very important, and have to be seeded in every room of the community.

This drugs have secondary effects too, is good to make clear not to abuse of then.
 
Top Bottom