Q&A Controller / Button Mapping Advice Thread

[Ansou]

The only reasons that I switched to the GC-controller are:

1. I got really sick of syncing my controller every time I switched to another console.
2. I felt that the angle in which I had my thumb on the GC-controller made it easier for me to perform perfect pivots.

In most other ways I actually feel that the Pro Controller is superior, but I still think that it was worth switching.

 

[Raijinken]

you should definitely have a grab button. you can't even perform proper dash grabs/pivot grabs or z drop/z catch effectively without a grab button.

Dash grabs are still just a matter of timing, but I'll concede it's way easier with the button. As for Z-dropping, a good point, too, but then a lot of character mains can essentially ignore it unless they're playing against an item character and know how to make use of Z-drops.

 

[Illuminose]

Dash grabs are still just a matter of timing, but I'll concede it's way easier with the button. As for Z-dropping, a good point, too, but then a lot of character mains can essentially ignore it unless they're playing against an item character and know how to make use of Z-drops.

It's not something you should ignore. It's a powerful point of counterplay in terms of using projectiles against other characters. If you get Diddy's banana, you may want to Z drop it to cover your landing, or with R.O.B.'s gyro, or with Mega Man's Metal Blade, or Peach's turnips, or with Link/Toon Link bombs, or with Pac Man's fruits. It's a very useful part of item control if you play those characters or are fighting against those characters.

 

[wizrad]

While wireless has improved, it would still basically take deliberate lag to make it slower than wireless.

Anyways, there's a one-action buffer (so, similar to Brawl but limited to one action instead of all actions in a certain window). A bigger issue with Brawl was the 2-4 frame random lag, rather than a set value.

Either way, it's mostly preference. While a frame of lag can technically matter, it's a 60th of a second, and won't make a difference in most players' play anyway.

I'm just always skeptical of wireless performance. Bad experiences during robotics in highschool.

How does the buffer work in this game? Do you end up using the first input that it gets or the last?

 

[Raijinken]

How does the buffer work in this game? Do you end up using the first input that it gets or the last?

To my knowledge based on interpretation of posts here (and not research), the first.

 

[Illuminose]

How does the buffer work in this game? Do you end up using the first input that it gets or the last?

different inputs have priority. special > shield > attack > jump. no matter when you buffer jump, if an air dodge was also buffered then an air dodge will always come out and not the jump because air dodge has input priority and you cannot buffer multiple actions in this game.

 

[jmjb]

Where's the New 3DS support??
the New 3DS was made FOR Smash, furthermore there have been 10 updates since the New Smash 3DS. In controller config there is the option to use your 3DS for Smash. it makes sense seeing as 3DS is the first controller you learned to play Smash 4 on. So it seems very wrong that the New 3DS created FOR Smash cannot be used FOR Smash.. I went to map my New 3DS button layout, and I see ZL, ZR, and the C stick are all absent from the button mapping..
The New 3DS was made FOR this very game, and is buttons are mapped to 1:1 mirror both the Wii U Gamepad, and Wii U Pro Controller, so why does the Smash Wii U controller config not support their Smash 3DS?

My set up is mostly default except for the X button which is Grab.

Does anyone know a work around so that my character doesn't use an attack when using Grab? I can't wrap my head around as to why when I try to pivot grab an f-tilt would come out.

The Grab and C-stick for aerials in this game are booty.. And it sucks considering that was what I did best.

I don't know any trick to do this, but it does have to do with timing. you need to grab before the d stick has fully been moved all the way left, while pivoting from right. if you've fully moved the stick it'll attack.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Can anyone test if C-tilting while holding Special results in a Smash attack?
What if A and B are set to different inputs? A Smash comes out anyway?
I don't have any of the games at the moment, but that thought crossed my mind.

 

[jmjb]

Can anyone test if C-tilting while holding Special results in a Smash attack?
What if A and B are set to different inputs? A Smash comes out anyway?
I don't have any of the games at the moment, but that thought crossed my mind.

c tilting while holding special does not result in a smash attack, im testing it right now.
and as for A +B to smash, its not actually A+B to smash, its "attack + special". just to be sure I mapped both to jump and tested a+b and no smash comes out.

 

[Untamed]

The only reasons that I switched to the GC-controller are:

1. I got really sick of syncing my controller every time I switched to another console.
2. I felt that the angle in which I had my thumb on the GC-controller made it easier for me to perform perfect pivots.

In most other ways I actually feel that the Pro Controller is superior, but I still think that it was worth switching.

I don't see the pro as superior at all. I used the pro since I got the game, and just recently switched to the GCC, and noticed a big difference in my skill level. Could be placebo, but my movement felt more smooth, and I was landing combos/hits a lot easier than before. I will say that the pro fit my hand size better, but that's it.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Do you feel this is character-specific?

I've been using C-Stick for Smash attacks since either Melee or Brawl. Thing is, I main Ike, and he relies on spacing. Sometimes, C-Stick Smash in the air causes me to force my Fairs and Bairs towards the enemy. Despite my disjointed hitbox, he will simply get shieldgrabbed for free as a result even though I moved away using the directional stick.

On the other hand, I play more friendlies than anything. I like using other characters, like Mario and Rosalina. It's second nature for me to use a C-Stick for a Smash. That said, changing to Attack feels awkward. Just because other players map Jump to L doesn't mean I would. Yet I've been recommended to go C-Stick for attack, and it feels odd.

At the same time, I don't want to lose any competitive momentum, relearn my style, etc. Do you feel it's best to be comfortable with what you know or am I just being xenophobic?

 

[(Buddha)]

I like it because it allows you to use tilts. Most of the time, you dont have enough time to slowly move your control stick forward for a tilt.Certain times it does not matter. Such as a dash attack to a tilt would be easy. I recommend it for using tilts more often. Otherwise, you kind of forget how nice tilts are and how much they can help.

 

[Wintropy]

I made a tag specifically for Pit where I changed the c-stick to tilts. It helped me practice pivot tilts and I found it useful to get out of sticky situations, where Pit's smashes just didn't cut it.

I ended up using that tag so often that I just made it my default control scheme. The only time I switch to c-stick for smashes is when I play Palutena, because her smashes are mostly better than her tilts across the entire board.

I'd say it's a matter of personal preference, in addition to how effective your character's tilts and smashes are. I find it's more effective mapped to tilts, but that's because my muscle memory is honed to input smashes rather than tilts, which can be very costly in the heat of a serious match.

 

[Strong-Arm]

For me 9 of 10 times I leave c-stick as smash attacks. Tho when I play certain characters such as Ryu who is really the biggest example of needing the c stick for tilts.

 

[ArikadoSD]

It's character-specific tbh. I set my c stick to tilts simply because if its set to smash then I can't deal with the annoying momentum shift in the air when I use aerials with it. It helps a lot to space aerials giving you freedom to do whatever with the control stick. I wish I could set it to smash when playing characters like ZSS or Fox but I can't cuz otherwise I'd be too used to it and it would mess with my muscle memory a lot lol.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

I dont think ots character specific, i just find tilts harder to use so I have them set to the c stick

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

I do feel it is character specific. That said I still use C-stick for attacks whenever I play any character.
Seeing as you main Ike I would use c-attack rather than c-smash but do what you are comfortable with. I treat him sort of like Shulk in regards to tilts.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I think I'm really getting the hang of it. C-Stick Attack for Ike works for spacing, while C-Stick Smash for Mario and Rosalina for smashing.

 

[Pazx]

Do you feel this is character-specific?

I've been using C-Stick for Smash attacks since either Melee or Brawl. Thing is, I main Ike, and he relies on spacing. Sometimes, C-Stick Smash in the air causes me to force my Fairs and Bairs towards the enemy. Despite my disjointed hitbox, he will simply get shieldgrabbed for free as a result even though I moved away using the directional stick.

On the other hand, I play more friendlies than anything. I like using other characters, like Mario and Rosalina. It's second nature for me to use a C-Stick for a Smash. That said, changing to Attack feels awkward. Just because other players map Jump to L doesn't mean I would. Yet I've been recommended to go C-Stick for attack, and it feels odd.

At the same time, I don't want to lose any competitive momentum, relearn my style, etc. Do you feel it's best to be comfortable with what you know or am I just being xenophobic?

C-Stick set to Smash doesn't affect your aerial momentum if you only flick the stick (ie input a direction for =< 1 frame [I think]). This is what I do and I've never had any issues. The best thing about tilt-stick IMO is that you can buffer short hop up-airs, which with a smash stick or the A button turns into a jump cancelled up smash.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

C-Stick set to Smash doesn't affect your aerial momentum if you only flick the stick (ie input a direction for =< 1 frame [I think]). This is what I do and I've never had any issues. The best thing about tilt-stick IMO is that you can buffer short hop up-airs, which with a smash stick or the A button turns into a jump cancelled up smash.

As an Ike main, it feels easier than ever to do Dtilts though. I just need two profiles now.

 

[Neku ネク]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I play with Tap Jump on. I've been accustomed to playing like that for years ever since 64, but within the past year I've started playing Smash competitively.

Does it make a difference in gameplay with or without Tap Jump? I haven't noticed but I wanted to know what people believe.

-If the consensus agrees Tap Jump is better off, how long will it take to get used to playing without it?

 

[p1ay6ack]

I also use C stick set to tilts, I find it easier to do out of shield tilt moves that really grant me momentum in a match.

Anyone try mapping their shield R to the X button? With the new gamecube controllers, there's a wonky configuration with the R bumper having an obstruction when R is pressed in certain angles. The obstruction is a problem enough to not allow you to shield and no R button input is made, making it a tad difficult in clutch moments.

I've moved my control scheme from R (shield) to X (shield) and it's taking a bit of time to get used to my new control scheme, but i'm curious whether some ppl find more succcess with x (shield) or r (shield) better?

 

[Pazx]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I play with Tap Jump on. I've been accustomed to playing like that for years ever since 64, but within the past year I've started playing Smash competitively.

Does it make a difference in gameplay with or without Tap Jump? I haven't noticed but I wanted to know what people believe.

-If the consensus agrees Tap Jump is better off, how long will it take to get used to playing without it?

If you prefer tap jump on and you're comfortable performing certain actions QUICKLY with it on then there's no real difference. It will make your out of shield game easier, which is cool.

The actions that you have to be able to perform are uptilting, rising up-airs, short hop aerials in general (the idea is you're able to do these without burning your double jump).

 

[Squirty]

Hmm, not sure if this should be added to the comparison or not, but it seems like the gamecube controller + adapter is very very slightly faster than the wireless controllers (like, ~55% of the time it's one frame faster). I posted all the final results of my test here: http://smashboards.com/threads/fina...ency-comparison-gc-vs-gamepad-pro-etc.372697/

Are there any common combos that require an input on a specific exact frame? If so, then there may be a <1% chance that this type of combo could be screwed up due to latency variance on certain controllers. Unfortunately I don't have a good way of measuring latency variance, but my test suggested that wireless latency variance might be high enough to cause problems with a combo that requires this level of precision. (Or it could have exhibited this problem because the test was only able to show combined latency variance between gamecube controller and wii u pro controller.)

 

[Deployment]

Ok guys I ran into a situation in which affects my gameplay. My setup right nowGC controller :

Tap Jump:Off AltSmash:On
A - Attack
B - Special
X - Grab
Y - Jump
C - Attack
L - Shield
R - Specialist
Z - Grab
I main Link so is mandatory need to Bombslide for MU reasons.
Currently have R to special is to do a grounded wavebounce and more fluent aerial wavebounces when I use the C Stick Attack in the same frame. Downfall to this setup I don't have a bumper to jump and Stick Attack in the air properly for my Sheik.
Another disadvantage is not having Shield in a button to buffer OoS Options.
Any tips to improve this will be appreciated.

 

[hotdogtaco4321]

I use the GameCube controller I find that he best controls are
A- Attack
B- Special
X+Y- Jump
C-Stick: smash
Tap jump off
L- Special
R- Shield
Z- Grab
Rumble Off
ALTSmash off
Taunts: taunts lol

I personally find that setting a button other than z to grab is useless since I always use A+Shield to grab, but from everyone I have met I am one of the only people who does. Z is a pretty redundant button and is only really useful for easy zairs but A+Shield completely negates the usefullness of having a grab button. Also Having c-stick set to smash allows for quicker smashes and if you use it fast enough it doesn't really effect your momentum (Except diar, but most characters shouldn't use c-stick for dairs a lot anyways. at least not the ones I use) also setting a bumper button to special allows for easier up b Oos. and tpa jump off for the reasons everyone knows...

 

[hotdogtaco4321]

Hmm, not sure if this should be added to the comparison or not, but it seems like the gamecube controller + adapter is very very slightly faster than the wireless controllers (like, ~55% of the time it's one frame faster). I posted all the final results of my test here: http://smashboards.com/threads/fina...ency-comparison-gc-vs-gamepad-pro-etc.372697/

Are there any common combos that require an input on a specific exact frame? If so, then there may be a <1% chance that this type of combo could be screwed up due to latency variance on certain controllers. Unfortunately I don't have a good way of measuring latency variance, but my test suggested that wireless latency variance might be high enough to cause problems with a combo that requires this level of precision. (Or it could have exhibited this problem because the test was only able to show combined latency variance between gamecube controller and wii u pro controller.)

Ithink against characters with fast escape moves peach only has 2 frames for her footstool combo so that could be an issue

 

[Wintermelon43]

Can anyone tell me what controllers wear out the least?

 

[Megamang]

Hmm, not sure if this should be added to the comparison or not, but it seems like the gamecube controller + adapter is very very slightly faster than the wireless controllers (like, ~55% of the time it's one frame faster). I posted all the final results of my test here: http://smashboards.com/threads/fina...ency-comparison-gc-vs-gamepad-pro-etc.372697/

Are there any common combos that require an input on a specific exact frame? If so, then there may be a <1% chance that this type of combo could be screwed up due to latency variance on certain controllers. Unfortunately I don't have a good way of measuring latency variance, but my test suggested that wireless latency variance might be high enough to cause problems with a combo that requires this level of precision. (Or it could have exhibited this problem because the test was only able to show combined latency variance between gamecube controller and wii u pro controller.)

First off, thanks a bunch for doing research like that. More info on smashboards always makes me happy.

I would imagine most tight timings can be overcome via the buffer; due to the nature of hitstun, you usually wanna hit ASAP. DunnoBro has some cool examples of delayed timing DHD combos on YouTube, other than those i cant think of any where buffering isnt the answer.

 

[Gunla]

Can anyone tell me what controllers wear out the least?

Here's my personal experience:

• 3DS - Excessive use will cause wear and tear to the circle pad and shoulder buttons. Using it constantly can cause the pad to actually come off. The size of your hands can also affect this.
• Wii Remote - Rather small and pretty durable, but it's the Wii Remote.
• Wiichuck - Pretty easy to find, but the only real "wear and tear" issue comes from the fact that there's the wire in the middle. Still not really a bit issue, but it's a well designed control scheme.
• CC/CCPro - I don't find that these wear out that easily, especially the Pro. Very good choices.
• Wii U Gamepad - This will wear out quite fast with excessive use and is rather central in keeping your console on. It's big, bulky but only one can be used at a time, so it's usually illegal.
• Wii U Pro - Again, solid choice like the CCPro. Slightly different layout to the GCN.
• HORI Battle Pad - Nearly identical to the GCN, except the shoulder buttons. Technically wireless as well.
• PDP Fight Pad - Feels like a third party GCN Controller. Buttons felt a little stiff or too loose, wouldn't recommend it.
• First Party GCNs - Honestly your best bet. They are very ergonomic and usually take some time to wear unless you are deliberately damaging it.
• Wavebird - Literally a GCN with the typical issues that may come with wireless issues and interference. Also, might be a bit harder to find.
• Third Party GCNS - You're better off shelling out a bit more for a first party. Honestly can vary from brand to brand but they don't stack up to the original in defense.

All in all, your best bets are likely in the GCN Controller, the HORI Battle Pad, Wiichuck or any of the First Party Pro Controllers.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Here's my personal experience:

• 3DS - Excessive use will cause wear and tear to the circle pad and shoulder buttons. Using it constantly can cause the pad to actually come off. The size of your hands can also affect this.
• Wii Remote - Rather small and pretty durable, but it's the Wii Remote.
• Wiichuck - Pretty easy to find, but the only real "wear and tear" issue comes from the fact that there's the wire in the middle. Still not really a bit issue, but it's a well designed control scheme.
• CC/CCPro - I don't find that these wear out that easily, especially the Pro. Very good choices.
• Wii U Gamepad - This will wear out quite fast with excessive use and is rather central in keeping your console on. It's big, bulky but only one can be used at a time, so it's usually illegal.
• Wii U Pro - Again, solid choice like the CCPro. Slightly different layout to the GCN.
• HORI Battle Pad - Nearly identical to the GCN, except the shoulder buttons. Technically wireless as well.
• PDP Fight Pad - Feels like a third party GCN Controller. Buttons felt a little stiff or too loose, wouldn't recommend it.
• First Party GCNs - Honestly your best bet. They are very ergonomic and usually take some time to wear unless you are deliberately damaging it.
• Wavebird - Literally a GCN with the typical issues that may come with wireless issues and interference. Also, might be a bit harder to find.
• Third Party GCNS - You're better off shelling out a bit more for a first party. Honestly can vary from brand to brand but they don't stack up to the original in defense.

All in all, your best bets are likely in the GCN Controller, the HORI Battle Pad, Wiichuck or any of the First Party Pro Controllers.

Thanks! BTW, do you know how long it takes for a Gamepad to be sent to repairs, repaired, and then shipped back? Sorry if that is too off-topic

 

[Gunla]

Thanks! BTW, do you know how long it takes for a Gamepad to be sent to repairs, repaired, and then shipped back? Sorry if that is too off-topic

Never had to do so myself, so I unfortunately don't know. Though I'd guess it could take some time, depending on your region. The only thing I've ever had to have repaired was a DS a while back and it took a few weeks.

GCN Controllers are the easiest to replace besides Wiichucks, however, and will give you your money's worth. Most of the other controllers don't really do that, especially the PDP and many other third party controllers.

 

[Jontage]

I use a Classic Controller Pro primarily for Smash 4 right now (it's actually a Hori Battle Pad, so it's almost exactly like a GCC) and this is the best layout I've found that works for me:

Tap jump: Off
A: Attack
B: Special
X/Y: Jump
L/R: Shield
ZR: Grab
ZL (L if on a GCC): Jump
C-Stick: Attack

I started using L as jump in PM to help with my jump cancels and because I only use R for shield but sometimes having that extra shield button is useful. Using ZL as jump in conjunction with the tiltstick makes aerial approaches a bit easier (I play Villager so this is important). Also I just want to say how much I love having a full tiltstick in Smash 4 as opposed to PM where it only changed your FSmash with FTilt but your USmash and DSmash were still there.

Also one thing I've kinda wondered that's kind of on topic: why do people disable rumble on their control setups? Personally the tactile response helps me focus on the game.

Having rumble enabled shortens the lifespan of the controller, where most people like to have their controllers for the longest time possible. Also, I heard something about inputs being messed up periodically due to rumble...

 

[DunnoBro]

Rumble doesn't shorten controller lifespan, don't see any evidence or reason to think it would.

In general, it seems like rumble helps or hurts certain inputs based on the type of input. Timed inputs like shield drops, or reactions to stray hit confirms seem to benefit from it since you gain an extra cue (ex. feeling the rumble of a hit confirm but only see a shielding opponent makes it obvious you hit a shield and should retreat for safety instead of advancing for a combo)

However, flowchart based inputs that change little based on player interaction seem to suffer from rumble as it just adds a usually unneeded variable. (Ex. The rumble of spindashing a shield mid-move makes it harder to react to the opponent's OoS option, as just buffering an aerial/special isn't optimal)

 

[CrazyPerson]

Another question: Gamecube controller

I have heard that the air game responds differently if the C stick is set to smash vs tilt. Is this true?

From purely the air game perspective, is there a difference and which one is better?

 

[Pazx]

Another question: Gamecube controller

I have heard that the air game responds differently if the C stick is set to smash vs tilt. Is this true?

From purely the air game perspective, is there a difference and which one is better?

Holding the smash stick for more than 1 (?) frame will alter your aerial momentum, you can see this for yourself by holding the stick in a direction and having it effectively negate any momentum you already have or drifting you're trying to do. This is not an issue if you just flick the C stick quickly.

You can nair by hitting the tilt stick in a diagonal direction. This is somewhat useful, but I've seen a lot of accidental nairs when a different aerial would have finished the stock.

You can't buffer a short hop rising uair with the smash stick or the A button, only the tilt stick stick. I think VaBengalz made a video about this called "Double Sticking".

Tilt stick is likely superior for the buffering uair example alone, the first point is basically a non-issue if you understand the mechanic and the second one can be quite frustrating if you're not precise with your inputs.

 

[I AKU I]

I use tilt stick and actually nair by pushing the c-stick diagonally. Controlling my horizontal movement has been way easier since doing so and I feel like the c-stick allows me to get the input out a bit quicker. I don't get misinputs anymore because I am used to it by now.

Does anyone have experience using the Hori Battle Pad? I saw that they have an extra trigger button above the L shoulder. I would find this really appealing if it isn't much different than a standard GCC.

EDIT: Just saw that Gunla answered my question above. So it is nearly identical. Sweet. I'm a bit worried about the wireless part though, does that cause slower inputs?

 

[Megamang]

I use tilt stick and actually nair by pushing the c-stick diagonally. Controlling my horizontal movement has been way easier since doing so and I feel like the c-stick allows me to get the input out a bit quicker. I don't get misinputs anymore because I am used to it by now.

Does anyone have experience using the Hori Battle Pad? I saw that they have an extra trigger button above the L shoulder. I would find this really appealing if it isn't much different than a standard GCC.

EDIT: Just saw that Gunla answered my question above. So it is nearly identical. Sweet. I'm a bit worried about the wireless part though, does that cause slower inputs?

There is a video floating around which shows that if there is a delay, it is one frame at most. However, if you plan to attend tournaments, you should make sure your local tournaments dont have wireless controllers banned. A wireless controller in someones backpack can connect to a wii u and basically prevent the setup from being usable... with a lot of setups present, many TOs prefer no wireless controllers at all rather than hunting each individual problem controller down.

 

[I AKU I]

Ah, yeah that makes sense. I'm pretty sure I've seen someone using a wireless controller at the place closest to me, but I'll check in with the TO to make sure its okay.

I definitely want to use the Battle Pad if people can't even tell if there is a 1 frame delay. There are a few Sheik techs that practically require you to assign one of the shoulder buttons to special attacks, but I was hesitant to do this because I already like my controller layout a lot. The battle pad could allow me to keep things the same while giving me that extra option.

Thanks

 

[-Champ-]