Q&A Controller / Button Mapping Advice Thread

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

So, can the 3DS be used as a tourney legal controller for a Wii U tournament? And do we have to use the default buttons on a particular controller?

 

[Locuan]

So, can the 3DS be used as a tourney legal controller for a Wii U tournament? And do we have to use the default buttons on a particular controller?

1. Yes the 3DS can be used as a controller.
2. Nope, if you want to change your controller settings, you definitely can!

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

I also had trouble with having jump on L because I found it pretty unreliable to get short hops. I just switched over the Z button instead and it's been easier to control my jumping while still having my right thumb for the c-stick.

tried it.... felt super weird. Just gonna have to get use to the L button I guess and stick use in general. There is no muscle memory there. I'll practice it while playing with friends and CPU feel like I'll get it eventually. Side note its great for spaced air attacks rather there SH or not.

 

[Jaxas]

tried it.... felt super weird. Just gonna have to get use to the L button I guess and stick use in general. There is no muscle memory there. I'll practice it while playing with friends and CPU feel like I'll get it eventually. Side note its great for spaced air attacks rather there SH or not.

The problem with L-jump (what I use as well) is that in Smash 4 the Gamecube controller's triggers aren't read as digital ("ON"/"OFF") buttons, but as analog (0-100) values.
In Brawl with L-jump you just had to click the button and then let go in time to short hop, but in Smash 4 the "ON" (pressed) signal is sent when the trigger goes about halfway down; this means you have to press it down to there and then have it spring up past that point within the jump-squat frames (average is around 6?).
Basically you have to actually only press it part of the way down, and then hope the spring pushes it back up fast enough.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Which is why I try to chose when I am going to shorthop or not. I usually press the pad button (X) for everything, and L for specific cases (like OOS or when doing aerial jumps).

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

The problem with L-jump (what I use as well) is that in Smash 4 the Gamecube controller's triggers aren't read as digital ("ON"/"OFF") buttons, but as analog (0-100) values.
In Brawl with L-jump you just had to click the button and then let go in time to short hop, but in Smash 4 the "ON" (pressed) signal is sent when the trigger goes about halfway down; this means you have to press it down to there and then have it spring up past that point within the jump-squat frames (average is around 6?).
Basically you have to actually only press it part of the way down, and then hope the spring pushes it back up fast enough.

Looks like I just wasn't C-sticking enough. The aerials seem to hit way more often and I can attack and FF at the same time. Its not so hard with x or y. I have a new problem now trying to get Nair to come out at will with using c-stick. I know you have to flick it at an angle.

 

[Ansou]

Looks like I just wasn't C-sticking enough. The aerials seem to hit way more often and I can attack and FF at the same time. Its not so hard with x or y. I have a new problem now trying to get Nair to come out at will with using c-stick. I know you have to flick it at an angle.

Do you have your c-stick set to tilts? If so, any diagonal angle will do. Anyway, I also tried using L for jumping, but I didn't feel that I would be able to short hop consistently with L even with some practice, so I switched my Z button to jump instead. It felt weird at the start and I sometimes jumped instead of grabbing and vice versa, but now I've kinda gotten used to it.

 

[busken]

Has anyone found a way to fix the L and R triggers so that you can spam them without delay like in brawl? i heard that if you break the slider thing in the controller it might work but idk...

 

[Jaxas]

Has anyone found a way to fix the L and R triggers so that you can spam them without delay like in brawl? i heard that if you break the slider thing in the controller it might work but idk...

Unfortunately not; the only way I've heard of is that there's a way to solder something to make it work like it did in Brawl.

Also, I've seen a ton of people asking about the specifics of how the L/R triggers work, so I'm probably going to do a writeup and then just point people there in the future; if anyone finds another way to make the triggers work like digital buttons (or a link to the one I'm talking about) please let me know so I can include it.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Recently got my hands on a gamecube adapter and have found success with putting jump on A on the gamecube controller.

A-Jump
Y-Attack
B-Special
Z-Grab
L and R-Shield
X-Whatever you prefer.

Jump between attack and special allows you to input jumps before and after your other actions very smoothly and A jump makes controlling your jumps in general very easy. Weird to get used to but turns out it's very legit for play styles where precise jumping is required.

 

[A17]

Back in brawl days, when you use the trigger buttons on the GCC, you had to depress the button until you got to the "click" to register an input. I used to use that to jump. The amount of time the button is held for will determine the height of the jump.

So for the most part, 90% of the button press was a dead zone. I removed the springs from the controller so it cam down to only clicking. It is difficult to short-hop like this.

Anyway, in Smash 4, the trigger buttons are detected at about half-way depression; no need to get to the "click". That's great, but also that's a whole new practice I'd have to adapt to get my short hops out. Right meow I'm working on building a habit of tapping Y for jumps instead since I can get short hops much more consistently. It just means I can't get off as easily as I did with R + C-stick for aerial attacks.

With that aside, it may already be clear to some I don't use tap jump. My thumb may be good for button mashing, but I sure as heck ain't going to do controlled rapid joystick inputs. Other than that, I use X for grab and leave the rest on default.

Recently got my hands on a gamecube adapter and have found success with putting jump on A on the gamecube controller.

I should give this a try. Thanks for sharing!

 

[busken]

Recently got my hands on a gamecube adapter and have found success with putting jump on A on the gamecube controller.

A-Jump
Y-Attack
B-Special
Z-Grab
L and R-Shield
X-Whatever you prefer.

Jump between attack and special allows you to input jumps before and after your other actions very smoothly and A jump makes controlling your jumps in general very easy. Weird to get used to but turns out it's very legit for play styles where precise jumping is required.

IMO set Jump to B. B allows you to slide from A easily to perform buffered n-airs. Also, B is close to the c-stick so you can buffer any aerial by swiping your thumb from B to the c-stick in the respective direction(aside from Up). This allows you to do buffered short hop aerials OOS. If you have Tap Jump on you can do this with U-air as well. Their are some downsides like performing Jump Canceled Techs and Glide Tossing with difficulty be can be overcome through practice.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

IMO set Jump to B. B allows you to slide from A easily to perform buffered n-airs. Also, B is close to the c-stick so you can buffer any aerial by swiping your thumb from B to the c-stick in the respective direction(aside from Up). This allows you to do buffered short hop aerials OOS. If you have Tap Jump on you can do this with U-air as well. Their are some downsides like performing Jump Canceled Techs and Glide Tossing with difficulty be can be overcome through practice.

With jump on A you don't have to even move your thumb when inputting attack after jump. You're neutral position would be covering both buttons with your thumb at the same time, pressing A with the crook and Y with the tip. I guess i don't have much trouble whipping to the c-stick from this position since it's how I always used to play a lot of gamecube games.

 

[busken]

With jump on A you don't have to even move your thumb when inputting attack after jump. You're neutral position would be covering both buttons with your thumb at the same time, pressing A with the crook and Y with the tip. I guess i don't have much trouble whipping to the c-stick from this position since it's how I always used to play a lot of gamecube games.

Same thing apples with B. B+A+control stick direction Or B+C stick direction

 

[RedBeefBaron]

With jump on A you don't have to even move your thumb when inputting attack after jump. You're neutral position would be covering both buttons with your thumb at the same time, pressing A with the crook and Y with the tip. I guess i don't have much trouble whipping to the c-stick from this position since it's how I always used to play a lot of gamecube games.

Yeah, you're right. I guess it's prolly just preference; at this point it would be really weird for me to have jump on B personally.

 

[Weavile493]

Do wireless controllers have input lag frames? I currently use the pro controller but just got a gcn adapter assuming that gcn's don't have wireless input lag over the pro. Is this true or are the two equal?

 

[Pazx]

Do wireless controllers have input lag frames? I currently use the pro controller but just got a gcn adapter assuming that gcn's don't have wireless input lag over the pro. Is this true or are the two equal?

Everything has lag, even your gamecube controller. Wireless controllers can sometimes have noticeable lag at large events where lots of people have them, otherwise they're fine.

 

[Funkermonster]

Whenever I play using a Gamecube-like controller (or with an actual GC) I tend to keep the L button to shield and use my pointer finger to press it. But from all that blocking and spotdodging, my pointer finger hurts a bit in the process and it takes a while to heal, I went to a tourney for a couple hours yesterday and my finger is STILL in pain. Has anone else experienced this? Did you find a workaround? I want to keep playing Smash competitively, but I don't want to destroy my pointer.

 

[Buffoon]

I'm in the middle testing out a configuration for my Gamecube controller; I've set X to Special Attack so that the Attack + Special Attack shortcut is easier to put off.

Additionally, I've set the C-Stick to Attack, so that tilts are easier to pull off. Thus far, I've been able to pull off walking Smash Attacks and/or walking Tilts whenever I please.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Strange what people have been saying about C-stick and aerial movement. I can back air while still keeping my momentum forward even with smash set to smash. It'll sometimes stop my momentum but it's pretty rare, I tried running forward and short hopping back airs across the stage with Ganon and I can keep the momentum forward 95% of the time. When I use C-stick for aerials, you only need a slight flick, in fact, I only have time to flick it if I'm short hopping or whatever. Idk, they should patch that either way.

Edit: I'm actually trying out c-stick for attack because it's good for mewtwo's tilts, it's gonna take a while to get used to though.

 

[b2jammer]

I've worked with the GCC about a month now, and I've figured out my button setup:
Jump: X,Y,L
Tap Jump On
Attack: A
Special: B
Grab: Z
Shield: R
A-Stick/T-stick

With so many jump buttons, it gives me relatively easy access to several combos and techs, but thanks to A/T-sticking I don't ever run into problems accidentally jumping or Double jumping when using Utilt or Uair.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Two things:
1. When I have c-stick set to attack, if I am in air and the c-stick is diagonal, neutral air happens. Is this normal?
2. How fast does the c-stick have to be flicked to prevent the loss of momentum if its set to smash?
Thanks.

 

[Pazx]

Two things:
1. When I have c-stick set to attack, if I am in air and the c-stick is diagonal, neutral air happens. Is this normal?
2. How fast does the c-stick have to be flicked to prevent the loss of momentum if its set to smash?
Thanks.

1. Yes, this is normal.
2. If the game registers the C stick as in a not-neutral position for more than one frame it messes with your momentum. One frame.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Is 1 frame a feasible option? I'd think not even if I flick the control stick, correct?

 

[Sodo]

I started out using a standard Wiimote without nunchuck, then I moved to a Wiimote with nunchuck, and now I've finally gotten my hands on an adapter and GC controller. Controls are standard, X and Y are used for jump (any suggestions on changing one?), with tap jump off.

Character specific techs aside, what should be the first thing I learn how to do? Fast fall seems to be pretty important so I've been trying that out. Anything else I should most definitely be aware of? Wall techs are tough for me but I've been trying to perfect those since I started using the nunchuck.

 

[Sharkzie]

I've got my layout on GC controller (rumble and tap jump off) set to
A: attack
B: special
C: attack
L: shield
R: grab
Z: jump
X: jump
Y: grab
It took a bunch of trial and error to get to controls that I liked. At first I wanted to c-stick aerials, so I had to set z to jump. After that, I wanted to be able to nair using the c-stick (which was really hard to get used to and still occasionally leads to misinputs) and with the whole aerial momentum thing, it just made sense to set c to attack. Then I couldn't z-jump out of shield very well, so I switched L to shield and R to grab. Finally, I set y to grab because I wasn't ever jumping with it and sometimes I don't like using L.

I've begun using this setup (a few hours ago actually) and I find it absolutely amazing with my play style. I am one who loves being in control of my aerials, momentum, etc.

However after a few hours of playing with this setup I decided to mess with it once more because I began to get a cramp on my index finger (lol).

My current set up is similar to the last one but:

A: Attack
B: Special
C: Attack
L: Jump
R: Shield
Z: Grab
X: Grab
Y: Jump

Disregard the changes done to R.
This helps me perform techs such as IZAC (Toon Link) much easier than previous controls.
However I can not get used to jumping with L, no matter how hard I tried I would 85% of the time perform a full hop or would try to press the button backwards or forward, causing the button to stay in place when I tried to press it (similar to a jammed button).

So I will switch back to the control set up that GeneralBrwni (New controls) has, but can I get some good quality feedback on this?
I used to use Y as my jump but with Brwni's controls I have it set to grab.

If I already have Z set to jump, do you feel there is a necessity to have Y as my jump and X as my grab instead?
I feel as if I will mainly be using Z to jump instead of Y or X so it doesn't really matter, what does matter is how comfortable I feel pressing the grab, and Y feels more natural since I had it on jump for so long...

What do you guys think?

For those wondering, my original controller setup (the one I started out with) was everything default except tap jump off.

EDIT: 5/13/2015

I switched back to my original setup because I honestly do not feel like getting used to those new controls.
I instead put X as grab (I jump with Y), C-Stick to Attack, and tap jump off while everything else is default.
While playing I did see a couple advantages but I can still use those advantages with my original controls too so it doesn't really matter imo.

The new controls might be very beneficial to air-based characters such as jiggly puff though, but I can still perform everything with old controls so it wasn't really worth the change.

 

[Zionaze]

Any big wii u tourneys that ban the use of 3ds as a controller?

 

[Pazx]

Any big wii u tourneys that ban the use of 3ds as a controller?

Most super big tournaments do (Evo, Apex) but otherwise I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Jpot]

Has anybody experimented with converting the Wii U Pro controller's thumbstick gates from circular to octagonal? My Pro controller will arrive soon, and I'm thrilled to do away with the sluggish GCN triggers, but I know I'm gonna miss those octagonal gates, especially on the right stick.

As I see it, there are two potential approaches: marking off the eight exact directional points on the gate, removing the casing, and somehow carving or drilling notches into those points for the stick to settle into, or fitting some kind of octagonal restrictor over the stick / around the rim of the existing gate. I'd think the latter would be preferable, since you can "ride the gates", to borrow a fight stick FGC term, and end up with the stick where you want it rather quickly despite minor mis-input. It would also result in smoother stick circling around the edges. I guess you could also try just cutting the existing gates down into an octagonal shape, though I'd be concerned with potentially adding the ability to input stick coordinates beyond the boundaries expected / assumed by the developers.

I've seen octagonal restrictor gates that are made to be installed in certain fight sticks for use with Street Fighter and the like, so there's precedent for this sort of thing, but I'm just wondering if anybody here has tried it and been satisfied with the results.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'd wish they at least had pointers like the 360's controllers telling your thumb where the right direction is.

 

[Ulevo]

Do people know how commonly the Wii U Gamepad and the Pro Controller are banned at tournaments? I am contemplating switching controllers because the GCC's L and R triggers are bad, and the analogue stick is nicer to use without the angled divots.

 

[Jpot]

Do people know how commonly the Wii U Gamepad and the Pro Controller are banned at tournaments? I am contemplating switching controllers because the GCC's L and R triggers are bad, and the analogue stick is nicer to use without the angled divots.

Gamepads are almost universally banned, due to the fact that only one can be used on a console at a time. Pro controllers are almost universally allowed - Evo and Apex allowed them, anyway, so there's not much reason for them to be banned. They have much better wireless capabilities than the Wavebird, so they don't have the same issues that did in terms of interference. The Pro is overall much nicer to use than the GCC so far.

 

[Ulevo]

Gamepads are almost universally banned, due to the fact that only one can be used on a console at a time. Pro controllers are almost universally allowed - Evo and Apex allowed them, anyway, so there's not much reason for them to be banned. The Pro is much nicer to use than the GCC so far.

Well, here's the thing. It is not as nice of a controller if you use tap jump. The reason for this is because the angle required to jump on the analog stick with tap jump on is actually a pretty low angle. I would say 30 or so degrees. When you consider your hand placement, if you were to have your thumb move directly side to side, you do not actually move it directly left and directly right on the divots of the analog pit because your thumb is parallel with the angle of the controller grip, which are not vertically straight the way the Wii U Gamepad is. They're diagonal ever so slightly. It's worse on the Pro Controller than the GC controller. So because of this, if you ever want to move your thumb left, there is a chance you will jump with tap jump on because moving it directly left is difficult without the appropriate adjustment. With tap jump off it is no problem because you can go to almost 70 degrees before it stops registering that you want to walk or run in either direction. So this all comes down to whether or not you play with tap jump. If you play without tap jump, then the Pro Controller is likely better for a variety of other benefits. If you do play with tap jump, then I unless your hand is really accustomed to making the angle adjustment which, anatomically speaking it really is not designed for, then I suggest the GC controller.

Now I want to play with tap jump off because for Meta Knight, tap jump can screw over your juggling because after you use the first double jump, he will continue to jump if you just hold upward. However, to do Shuttle Loop out of shield, you need either tap jump on or to have another button dedicated to jump or special to be able to initiate a jump squat. The problem is that if you do this on a GC controller, you have to deal with the L/R triggers and their dead space, which is a problem because Shuttle Loop out of shield needs to be frame perfect when doing it with a jump button.

If we are somehow able to make it so the L and R triggers can work with their springs removed, I would opt for that. But as of right now the Pro Controller is looking tempting, at least for characters I do not require the C Stick for very much.

 

[Sharkzie]

Setting Z to jump can resolve all of the L/R "dead space" problems on the GCC.

 

[Ulevo]

Setting Z to jump can resolve all of the L/R "dead space" problems on the GCC.

I use Z for grab.

 

[Sharkzie]

I use Z for grab.

Try using Y or X for grab instead, while having Z as jump.

 

[Ulevo]

Try using Y or X for grab instead, while having Z as jump.

Does not really make sense to re-do years of conditioning and neural familiarity with Z as my grab when I can use L which I have never previously used because I always use R for shield. I would rather have to learn something new in addition to how I play, rather than change how I play.

 

[Sharkzie]

Well if you're willing to use L as jump then go ahead. Imo it won't be a hard transition from Z grab to Z jump because if you already are accustomed to using the C stick for aerials, you will see the amazing benefits of having Z set to jump.
Why not try it first instead of disregarding it? You can always change back if you do not like it.

 

[Ulevo]

I do not need an additional button set to jump outside of the purpose of enabling a jump squat, therefore the only thing that matters is that its placement is somewhere that is not already being used and somewhere that I can press it while still pressing the B button. Z fills that function, and I have to relearn how to grab. L fills that function, and...I don't have to relearn anything.

I jump with Y with my thumb pad and hit A with my thumb joint, so it is not like having Z as jump would serve to make my air game easier.

 

[Sharkzie]

Z is a timid press similar to the X & Y button while L & R are not, but alright mayn.