CopShowGuy
Smash Ace
Sometimes you're better off just letting the timer run out instead of throwing it. If you throw it just before it ends, then you're actually off stage waiting even longer.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Consult Your Navigator - Mega Man Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Yink
- Start date
Funkermonster
The Clown
This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever asked but.... how the heck do people deal with our Leaf Shield? How the hell do you deal with your own leaf shield? Everytime I fight another MM (mostly online though), they tend to use LS upon landing and they feel almost untouchable while doing it while they get to roll or run around fishing for a grab and I'm usually just forced to run away and wait it out, and the fight tends to drag on and on when it happens.
It sounds weird, I know, but en as someone who played him myself for over a year, even I can't stand fighting
. But I feel as though if I can get around this (my main grievance besides the lemons) maybe it'll go away.
It sounds weird, I know, but en as someone who played him myself for over a year, even I can't stand fighting
. But I feel as though if I can get around this (my main grievance besides the lemons) maybe it'll go away.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
While leaf shield is a really good move especially around the edge, it does have 2 or 3 major flaws that prevent it from being outright broken.This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever asked but.... how the heck do people deal with our Leaf Shield? How the hell do you deal with your own leaf shield? Everytime I fight another MM (mostly online though), they tend to use LS upon landing and they feel almost untouchable while doing it while they get to roll or run around fishing for a grab and I'm usually just forced to run away and wait it out, and the fight tends to drag on and on when it happens.
It sounds weird, I know, but en as someone who played him myself for over a year, even I can't stand fighting
The move isn't fast by any means as I believe the hit box doesn't come out until right around frame 50 (which is really slow) so even if you see a Mega Man player inputting the move and you're within range, I'd try to land a hit on em since the trade is for the most part worth it as it does only 2% damage, has very little hitstun, and has almost no knock back when it isn't thrown.
It's also possible to cancel the move entirely if you can land a hit before the 50th frame/during it's initial active hitbox or you can flat out go right through leaf shield sometimes and I would know since that has happened to me several times.
Whenever Mega Man is offstage with leaf shield on but in a disadvantage state, it's better if you don't challenge it and just wait until either leaf shield is gone, or if Mega Man decides to throw it since he has do something before he is able to use Rush and you don't want to risk getting footstooled either. In the case that he happens to throw it, Mega Man can be pretty vulnerable depending on where he is offstage as leaf shield is also a very laggy move when it is thrown even if it provides a lot of coverage.
If anything though, try to get in Mega Man's face constantly and put a ton of pressure on him so he doesn't have enough time to put up leaf shield without getting punished for it even if he is above you and have a lot of patience whenever you have to deal with leaf shield or against Mega Man in general if he wants to be lemon/leaf shield heavy.
Yeah, leaf shield is definitely a move that not a lot of people enjoy having to deal with, but it's far from perfect as it has quite a bit of shortcomings for it to be completely overwhelming against the entire cast.
Is it possible to Super Glide Toss a Metal Blade with your C-stick set to tilts? I've been trying to practice it all day, but I found myself only able to glide toss with my C-stick set to Smash, and I need it on tilt for U-tilt set ups.
smasher1001
Smash Journeyman
You ca't use the c stick method to glid toss if you use tilt stick. You can still glide toss however, but you'll need the A+B smash option turned on and to use that version of the toss instead. It sucks cuz it's a bit harder i know lol.
Shiek above all others beats megaman if you're good with her. Other bad matchups include mario and fox. Basically characters that can get past the wall once and get a great reward, or in sheiks case shut down his wall for the most part.
Wreck33
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 210
Blubolouis
un order to zdrop utilt you drop it late as you say then depending on where on their body you hit you either pivot uptilt or wait a couple of frames and uptilt.
Blubolouis
Smash Lord
Funkermonster
The Clown
Need to relearn the MU, a little help. Its been awhile since I've played and I feel I'm having more problems with him thn I should.
MU, a little help. Its been awhile since I've played and I feel I'm having more problems with him thn I should.
Wreck33
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 210
Funkermonster
sh pellets and downward thrown MBs for pickups makes this MU impossible for villager. Once shield is down shield poke with up air. Villager cant grab you oos on pellet string crossups even on block. That opens up insane mix ups for MM. This MU if you wanna win in tournament you should just pellet, throw MB and throws. Then ledge guard him. That way villager cant punish your wiffs of unsafe attacks.
Mega-Spider
Smash Ace
Villager's a weird MU. Despite us being a projectile-heavy character, F-Smash is the only thing he can use against us that can really cost the match. If he Pockets Metal Blade, just get another one. However, I also don't recommend sleeping on this MU either. Villager is an excellent edge guarder, with an incredible recovery to boot, which can make it difficult to get back on the stage. Like us, Villager is also great in neutral, though I don't think it's as strong as ours. The tree isn't an issue for us especially since Metal Blades can go right through it, but it's still annoying if we get hit by it. This MU's only challenging when it comes to being off stage, otherwise it's not the most difficult MU in the world.Need to relearn the
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
Yes and no if that makes sense.
Yes because he does well against
and ; which are commonly believed to be 's worst match ups as well as being more of a defensive character like Rosalina. If you want a secondary that can play defensively well, is a great choice. No because that character is not one that you can just pick up and start having success with right out of the gate. Mega Man is a character that requires a lot of knowledge as well as having a lot of patience. One of the hardest characters to get good with, but I think the effort is worth it if you really want to main/secondary Mega Man and get good with.
smasher1001
Smash Journeyman
I'm a mario/mega co-main for what its worth. It works because mario is heavy fundamentals and mega is tech heavy imo, so mario doesn't take up alot of practice time like mega does.
riels89
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2015
- Messages
- 16
ya that was my one reserve but I think it could be worth it. Having two characters who are difficult to learn (and therefore more rare) could prove very useful in throwing off otherwise better players.Yes and no if that makes sense.
Yes because he does well against
No because that character is not one that you can just pick up and start having success with right out of the gate. Mega Man is a character that requires a lot of knowledge as well as having a lot of patience. One of the hardest characters to get good with, but I think the effort is worth it if you really want to main/secondary Mega Man and get good with.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
Since you're considering on using Mega Man as a secondary option and not as a main, I recommend not using him against these 3 characters
, , and . That's it. I would also "maybe" consider not using him against , but I'm not familiar with the Rosalina/Pikachu matchup at all so for I all I know, Pikachu probably stomps Rosalina and thus Mega Man would be a better option. Pikachu is a very underrated character with arguably a top 5 mu spread, but get's overlooked because "He doesn't have an aerial move that can kill." according to the "experts".I don't think it's just me, but others tend to think that a
/ pair is a pretty good option and Dabuz (one of the best Smash 4 players and the best Rosalina player in the world) mentioned that he should play Mega Man as well as stating recently that he thinks that Mega Man is a borderline Top Tier in this game. I don't know if he was joking or not when he said that he should play the blue bomber, but he did say it.It's also worth noting that in team doubles, a team that consists of
and can be pretty overwhelming. Fully charged shot into gravitational pull = destruction for the other team. 
riels89
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2015
- Messages
- 16
Ok thank you! And the Rosa/Pika MU is like -1.5 for Rosa so he could come in handy. Maybe you will see me around here moreSince you're considering on using Mega Man as a secondary option and not as a main, I recommend not using him against these 3 characters
I don't think it's just me, but others tend to think that a
It's also worth noting that in team doubles, a team that consists of
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
Glad I could help and if it doesn't work out, don't feel bad about it.Ok thank you! And the Rosa/Pika MU is like -1.5 for Rosa so he could come in handy. Maybe you will see me around here more
Piipp
Smash Apprentice
Scatt and Neos apply this almost every time they team, and it's actually filthy.Since you're considering on using Mega Man as a secondary option and not as a main, I recommend not using him against these 3 characters
I don't think it's just me, but others tend to think that a
It's also worth noting that in team doubles, a team that consists of
Not sure if you saw this from them but just pointing it out lol
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
How do you, like, punish pellets (aka lemons). It's, literally, the single most annoying thing when fighting Megaman? I can't live out of my shield, let alone move- hell, can't even Grab.
Heracr055
Smash Ace
Is there a post or thread that shows Mega Man's MU spreads? I might have missed it but I didn't see it in the MU thread.
Edit: If not, is there a recent MU spread put out by any respected Mega Man players? I'm taking a look at what characters are considered tough for Mega Man, and I'd appreciate any help
Edit: If not, is there a recent MU spread put out by any respected Mega Man players? I'm taking a look at what characters are considered tough for Mega Man, and I'd appreciate any help
Last edited:
CopShowGuy
Smash Ace
I remember ScAtt making one a while back.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
There really isn't a definitive Mega Man match up sread yet. As of right now, we still got a ways to go before we get a clear picture on what characters we beat, lose to, or go even with as the game is still young and who knows if we'll get another balance patch (I doubt it, but it COULD happen).
As for notable Mega Man players. Here are ScAtt's and Kamemushi's match up charts.
https://twitter.com/MVG_ScAtt/status/712693372557922306 (Kind of outdated as it's 1.1.5, but still note worthy.)
https://twitter.com/kameme8808/status/758532781248884738
Mega-Spider
Smash Ace
I have a question when it comes to Megs' tournament representation. I've noticed that Megs is a character that doesn't get a whole lot of representation, at least not compared to the numerous Clouds and Sonics, but I also noticed that Megs often gets pretty solid results. Kameme getting 2nd place at EVO 2016, ScAtt getting 5th at Super Smash Con 2016, and since Kameme's placement, Megs has been getting acknowledged a lot more. Now to my question: Does Megs' results and low tournament representation say something about the character? If anything, it shows that while he may be difficult to learn, Megs can be a surprising threat.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
The thing with Mega Man is that on paper, he appears to be a hard work/little reward character since he hardly has any throw-out moves that either do A LOT of damage, knockback, can set up for high damage racking combos, and/or is safe on shield/neutral winner. The only moves that he has that partially fits the description are slash claw/bair and air shooter/uair.
To the naked eye, he has some unimpressive stats such as having the 35th fastest walk speed, 46th fastest run speed, and a bad combination of being tied as the 15th heaviest character and being tied with having the 5th fastest fall speed. The 3 major things that attract to a lot of people are combos, speed, and kill power. "Usually", the best characters in Smash games are fast, have a lot of fast moves, can naturally rack up damage, doesn't have a problem killing or at least not a huge one, and has the right weight value range.
Last but not least, Mega Man has to be one of the most unorthodox characters to ever be playable in any Smash game. Just the idea of having a mid-range projectile as a jab, f-tilt, and a nair while all of them are almost exactly the same move sounds like something aliens came up with or something. Thanks to Mashpotato Samurai translating Mega Man's controls from his games into this game, He has one of, if not, the most jerky controls in the air. Everytime you move in the air horizontally, it is 100% manual; having full control and you defy the laws of physics to the highest degree.
Despite all of this info that turns off/scare a lot of people away from maining/secondary him, this same info attracts to those that either are extremely technical, creative, and want to stand out as well as inspiring the Mega Man loyalists. So because of this, almost everyone that plays Mega Man at a national or even regional level are players that are really good and they understand the character a lot better than a mid level player that understands a character they play like Cloud, Sonic, Ness, etc.
It's also thanks to that Mega Man himself has some pretty stupid moves such as leaf shield and air shooter (StylesX2 thinks this move is broken lol) along with lemons being very overwhelming; dare enough to even say that I think that lemons are one of the best moves in the entire game and is a contender for the best projectile (I currently have it as the 3rd best projectile only behind Diddy's banana and Shiek's needles).
So yeah, I think with the high quality level of results despite the low amount of representation tells me that this character is too complex, too weird, and too deceiving of how good this character is to the average player that only those that want to lab, innovate, and/or stay loyal to the blue bomber will play Mega Man.
It also helps if you have the right mentality. You can rack up all the combos and make the hardest of reads on for glory/locals, but it doesn't mean much at a regional level if you lose game 1 of a set in a convincing fashion and then proceed to fall apart. I've noticed that top/high level Mega Man players tend to be very calm and cool collected; rarely panicking and not falling for baits. If they do start to crack under pressure, it usually only happens against the best of the best.
Last edited:
Mega-Spider
Smash Ace
Mythzotick
If anything, learning to play Mega Man in Smash is like how it is playing a Classic Mega Man game. Sure, to fans like us, the games aren't that hard since we have a lot of experience with them, but to someone who hasn't played the games god knows how many times, they're really hard. The design mentality I always saw for the series was that the objective was clear, but learning how Megs works as a character, what his limitations are, how far he can jump, etc, is the key to victory. Count how many times the series makes you jump a spike pit that's 3 spikes long. By being at the very edge of the platform and making a jump for it, you'll make it across. In Smash, it's the same thing. You need to know how much ending lag his moves have, how quickly his pellets come out, etc. It also helps to get creative. Much like the Robot Master weapons in the games, being creative with your mixups and combos helps give you an edge and keeps players on their toes. Megs can be one of the more unpredictable characters if you do that.
Since Kameme's 2nd place placement at EVO 2016, I've seen more people pick up Megs, but looking at them, they still have a long way to go (heck, I still have a long way to go and I've been playing since launch). Like I said, just because our top representer placed extremely high in the largest Smash 4 tournament so far, that doesn't mean we can slack off. Judging by players that are doing really well at locals like Peabnut Bubber and Grandtale, as well as ScAtt's 5th place placement at Super Smash Con 2016, that momentum doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. We just gotta keep it going.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for
I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for
I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.
Mega-Spider
Smash Ace
I've been thinking about this for a while, but how do you guys think Megs is going to fare in the future? Part of me feels that he'll have a decent level of success for some time, and depending on whether or not updates come, things will either go up or get worse after that. People like Sleek Media and SanAntonioSmasher brought up some interesting points that would lead to a slump. They bring up the idea that Megs is a little too reliant on footstool combos, and generally, I would agree if the actual footstool combo (or the Kameme), was really difficult to pull off. I've played around with it when labbing, and while it does take a little bit of practice to get right, I don't think it's a hard thing to pull off. What also helps support it is that footstools are faster than grabs, meaning that it's a really good punish option. Granted, it does take some precision to get right, but it's a fairly simple OOS option.
Something that SanAntonioSmasher brought up is that the meta is going from having a strong neutral to be successful to being a meta that's involved around racking up as much damage as you can to secure the kill. While I do see the meta going in this direction, I feel that having a strong neutral is still something worth having. Megs has been getting solid results as of late, and part of it is due to his great neutral game. We know that Megs has never been the strongest with damage output and while having strong kill moves does have some problems securing the kill, we need to evolve our meta to balance having a strong neutral game, while also being more aggressive.
While I may have disliked Sleek's pessimistic attitude, I do have to thank him for bringing up a potential problem for us in the future. There's plenty of untapped potential for us, and we need to constantly lab to see what we can find. As the meta's evolving, we need to evolve with it. That's how Megs could still be a strong contender. Anyone that feels like they won't be able to play Megs through this is free to leave. For the rest of us, we need to keep moving.
Something that SanAntonioSmasher brought up is that the meta is going from having a strong neutral to be successful to being a meta that's involved around racking up as much damage as you can to secure the kill. While I do see the meta going in this direction, I feel that having a strong neutral is still something worth having. Megs has been getting solid results as of late, and part of it is due to his great neutral game. We know that Megs has never been the strongest with damage output and while having strong kill moves does have some problems securing the kill, we need to evolve our meta to balance having a strong neutral game, while also being more aggressive.
While I may have disliked Sleek's pessimistic attitude, I do have to thank him for bringing up a potential problem for us in the future. There's plenty of untapped potential for us, and we need to constantly lab to see what we can find. As the meta's evolving, we need to evolve with it. That's how Megs could still be a strong contender. Anyone that feels like they won't be able to play Megs through this is free to leave. For the rest of us, we need to keep moving.
Last edited:
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
He either has the potenital to one day maybe be a top 10 character with little to no debate, or will fall off into obscurity because of how draining he can be on you. If you know ScAtt and Kamemushi even a little bit, then you know that they really like Mega Man. Despite that, there is no gaurantee that either one of them will stick with the blue bomber in the long run and if that were to happen, then it would be truly devastating. But you know what? I wouldn't really hold that much against them and wouldn't blame them for one bit as they've done so much for us and you sometimes got to do whatever it takes legally to win. ScAtt just recently tweeted that he thinks he's done trying Mega Man in the Shiek match up and I bring that up because I kind of want to go over Mega Man's worst match ups being
, ,, and .While it is kind of a mess of how different so many people's opinions are from each other on match ups involving Mega Man, the general consensus usually is that these 4 give Mega Man the most trouble with Shiek being the worst offender. I'm starting to think that Mega Man only has 3 "40:60 or worse match ups" as opposed to 4 because I really don't think Mario is that bad for us (still not in our favor though) and I think it's more of just Mario being a really good character instead of having all the tools to counter us like the other 3. But, I'm uncertain how bad Shiek truly is and all it takes is just 1 character to prevent us from having a huge say on how a tournament plays out. Once we're offstage against Shiek, it's always seems like a tall mountain to climb just trying to get back to a nuetral state because of our poor "hanging on ledge options" and Shiek's frame 1 like data. Don't even get me started on how she can just naturally pierce through our lemons and deal 40+% damage on us everytime she is able to land a hit or a grab.
As for position states, I'll say this. You can have an amazing adavantage and disadvantage state, but it won't get you very far if you have a weak neutral because you can't land a hit; which is a main reason of why I think currently on paper that Shiek is the best character in the game despite all the nerfs she took. Yes, Mega Man does have a vulnerable disadvantage state and an advantage state that's only good if you have the knowledge, skill, and reaction speed to pull it off. But Mega Man is among the elite when it comes to the neutral and it's one of the main reasons why he has success on the top level. Hardly any character has a solid answer to deal with his wall of projectiles and the ones that do have one tend to have the match up edge.
Unfortunately though, all of that comes at a heavy price; which is how "technically demanding" he is. Some characters can be really technical like Fox is Melee, but can still do decently well without them. Mega Man on the other hand requires you to know almost everything about him and how he works exactly or else you're gonna get bodied hard. As you have said before. For us that have so many years of experience playing Mega Man games, playing him is almost second nature in this game because we know how his lemons, metal blades, leaf shield, etc. work and we're also used to his twitchy aerial controls.
Despite all the flaws that Mega Man has, his overwhelming strengths almost counter them and some of his flaws can also be an aid such as his weight and fall speed can come in for rage and survivability. If we can discover game-breaking stuff like Rush cancel within hours/days after the 3DS demo was released almost 2 years ago, then there is no telling what the future has is store.
Mega-Spider
Smash Ace
Mythzotick
I think Megs is a solid solo character even with those 4 bad MUs, but there are certain MUs that I don't feel comfortable playing him with. Characters like Mewtwo, Wario, Falcon, and Falco for example, are characters that I feel more comfortable playing with Kirby since I think Megs struggles against the first 3 that I mentioned and I just hate fighting Megs with Falco for some reason. I don't blame ScAtt for being frustrated with the Sheik match up, but it also shows how mentally unprepared he can be at times. I'm not trying to diss the man or anything because he's a great player that has an incredibly solid record so far, but something tells me he could try a little harder than what he's making it out to be. "Give it 110% instead of 100%" is what I like to say in cases such as these.I think the biggest hurdle is the fact that Megs' strategies and how he plays are so unorthodox compared to the majority of the cast. He works really well defensively, a play style a lot of players hate or don't fully understand, but isn't the best offensively. Recently, I've developed my style to be a mix of offensive and defensive play, but there are several things I still need to improve on, such as my predictability and edge guarding game.
I'll agree that Megs is a very technically demanding character, but mastering that tech goes a long way. Like I said, it's almost how the games are. Sure, Megs isn't the hardest character to control, but knowing how many pellets can be on screen at a time, how far he can jump, how the Robot Master weapons work, etc, really do make the games so much easier. It's the same scenario here, and not everyone is going to want to master tech if they want to win. I'm not so much focused on winning as much as I am trying to learn the game, because Smash 4 is still very young, and this has been the most difficult game in the series to judge in terms of the direction of the meta. Not only is this due to the game still being young (2 years isn't a whole lot of time for a fighting game, but this is around the point where a solid tier list is usually formed), but it's also because this is the first Smash game to have patches. The previous games never got patches, so it was much easier to pinpoint the meta even if it still took time to figure out. While we haven't had a patch in months, there could potentially be another one soon, and that one might change the meta entirely. Look at any Melee tournament footage from 2007 and watch the tournament footage from this year, and you'll notice that local Melee tournament footage now is what top level Melee footage looked like in 2007 to a certain degree. Melee fans had 15 years to discover all the stuff that they did, and even then, new stuff is being found, like Yoshi's dramatic rise from 18th to 12th place in the most recent tier list made last year.
None of us know where the meta is truly headed and what it will be like in the next year(s). Some of us have ideas of what that meta could be like, but none of us know for sure, no matter how certain we think we are. The only thing I know is that we have to evolve with the meta, instead of staying flat, wishing that we could go back to the days of old when we had our broken Rush Cancel. I'm sure in the next few years, everything would be figured out. For now though, let's keep labbing and experimenting because there could be some cool stuff we haven't found yet.
Diamond Octobot
Smash Ace
I'll say this : while we do have poor Get-up Options from the ledge, there is ONE I never see anyone use... And it's Ledge Drop -> Rush. Yes, it isn't as good as Villager's FAir or WFT's SideB, but in case someone wants to cover multiple options, you can just take the air road and BAir/Fair/Land with Leaf Shield. And this can be reaaaaly useful.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
Wreck33
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 210
Mythzotick
I think its somewhat accurate, but also feel that MM is alot more solo viable then alot of the chars above him and also he has winning MUs against half of them imo
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
What characters do you think that are above him are less solo viable than him and who are the ones do you think he beats? I at least think he should be higher than
as of this moment.
Last edited:
Rush 2112
Tag: 2112 (Twenty-one Twelve)
Is this just picking up the MB with an autocancelled(is that the right word) aerial? I did this totally by accident and I haven't seen this before but it seems like something worth practicing.
Mythzotick
Smash Journeyman
Were you doing a nair pickup or a bair pickup? It looked like you were turning right before you picked up the metal blade as you were falling.
Last edited:
Rush 2112
Tag: 2112 (Twenty-one Twelve)
No clue. It could have been either. Could have been uair. Certainly not fair, that's all I can say for sure xD