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Q&A Consult Your Navigator - Mega Man Q&A Thread

Red Shirt KRT

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If they are above you it is extremely safe on shield. If you land it on a grounded opponent it depends if they try and drop shield too early it will pull them up still. If they shield it completely they usually will punish you with a grab.

You can space it so you land further away with some aerial momentum and it makes it harder to punish.

Fully safe I would say no.
 

Funkermonster

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What do you guys do when stage control is lost and you get cornered at the edge? A bad habit of mine I just noticed is that I tend to go into panic mode whenever that happens and try to escape by rolling my way out or by getting a grab and tossing them off the edge, and I think I'm getting punished for this a bit more than I'm aware of now, and I think I tend to do this more with MM than my other chars with how limited our close range options are.

I can't believe it took me this long to find out..
 

Diamond Octobot

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Well, bad habits being habits, noticing them is worth being called a prowess... Aside from that, I usually end up trying to recover some space with NAir's blank point hitbox, I crossup with Auto-Cancelled DAirs or I simply use Rush to put some distance. All of these options are mix-ups, but they can work.
 

Mega-Spider

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With this patch nerfing Bayonetta some more, how do you guys think the MU will play out now? Still the same or slightly more favorable compared to last patch?
 

Diamond Octobot

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Obvious answer time :

It's better. Now, we just don't have to worry about getting 0-death 'ed off the top, but we still have to be careful, as her FAir is still a powerful move somehow.
 

Megamang

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If you show you aren't afraid to sit in the corner and pellet for a bit, you can still force many characters to approach. The corner isn't a great position, but Pound showed us that a good projectile character can spend some time in the corner and still do fine. The better the edgeguarder/ledgetraps, the less desirable this is of course. Rush is a decent choice in some MUs, and others its a huge liability.

So for getting out of the corner, i'd say its really MU dependent what your options are. In general having a metal blade in hand is nice, because you get RAR MB setups, glide toss pressure, OOS tosses to strengthen your shield. Leaf shield + metal blade is great on some characters like Sonic and maybe fox (need a lot more exp here before I claim).

At SV you can wait for the platform assist, though you need to make sure your shield dropping is on point (this is easier w/o tap jump,because you can move your shield up first to make spotdodging less likely).

At BF, you can go high and use Leaf Shield to assist your landing, though this might be more dangerous than being in the corner in a lot of MUs. Any particular character giving you trouble?
 

CopShowGuy

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What do you guys do when stage control is lost and you get cornered at the edge?
Pretty much what Megamang said. Sometimes you can just sit there on the ledge and shoot pellets while VERY slowly inching forward. It usually makes your opponent lose their cool.
 

Megamang

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Kamemushi really likes to take space with his dash forward, using shield and dashgrab to claim real estate on the level. This has a wider threatening zone when he his holding a metal blade.
 

CopShowGuy

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Sheik is very safe with her moves. Mega Man isn't. I think that's his biggest weakness and characters like Mario, Fox, and Sheik can easily exploit it.
 

Megamang

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Needles being ludicrously good at anti zoning is a big part. In close games, shiek can all but guarantee she hits you up and makes you have to deal with her absurdly good landing traps.
 

Megamang

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There have been some recent posts going around about Megaman stagnating... I really don't understand where that is coming from. If anything, his results are getting better and better across the world. Everyone's meta will slow at some rate as we no longer have an age of advancement where everyone is essentially learning the basics of the game, but that doesn't mean it has to stop.

Here is a post by Greward, who is the best player in Spain and has been a Megaman main for quite some time, on the subject.


"Mega Man is kinda a poor man's Sheik.

He basically excels in neutral game (top5 neutral game for sure) and edgeguard game (also very strong) but has a subpar damage output and unsafe killing options. His recovery is also average at best.
His combination of being slightly heavyweight + fast faller also makes him very susceptible to combos, pretty much like Falcon.

However, compared to Sheik, he's not light, which is nice, and also has actual early kill options (although unsafe). As time goes on Mega is starting to have more setups for damage and kill options (the z drop footstool reset that kamemushi is using is a potential infinite, and I think we'll see him doing the infinite soon) so that's a plus.
The land footstool can be comboed from a hit of leaf shield as well, but that's pretty hard.

And there's still stuff for Kamemushi to improve on, like super glide toss forward which is a super hard to do although very good option. Also not messing the footstool combo since he actually messes it up sometimes (which is to be expected because it's hard).

Mega Man has a future in competitive game imo, but he's kinda hard to play so I don't think we'll see anyone picking him up when he validates himself as a top tier character. The character is still evolving at this point and that says a lot about his potential."



Unless you can pull off an infinite from a landed footstool, your Megaman has somewhere to improve. Same goes for DICIT forwards, RAR MB confirms into bair/fair/nair, every conceivable pellet string/movement tech... Yea, Mega is in a great place, and he isn't stagnating anymore than any other character. Of course it may seem this way, as the DLC goes through their own era of learning the game, but this doesn't indicate Mega is slowing down at any rate other than normal.
 

Mega-Spider

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If you guys were to ask me where I think Megs stands right now, ScAtt and Kamemushi are showing us that Megs has a lot of potential, but it comes at a great cost. Compared to a lot of the top tiers, Megs requires much more time to get the hang of and has unsafe options. I consider Mega Man to be one of, if not the most difficult character to play because his meta revolves around patience and defense rather than going straight for the kill. I consider playing Megs to be like solving a math equation. Everything needs to add up, and the process can be taxing for a lot of people. However, if you're able to hang in there, you'll find that Megs has a lot of potential with one of the best neutral games out of the entire cast. I think because his strategies are so much different compared to most of the cast and some of his options being incredibly unsafe do make him high mid tier at the most right now, and maybe low high tier at best. That's not to say he's not good, because Megs is very good, but he requires so much patience to master and learn. It's times like this where I'm glad I have the Classic Mega Man feel wedged into my skull. (I'm not a top or competitive player, though so keep that in mind).
 
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Mythzotick

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I've been thinking lately about making a post of ranking Mega Man's moves and there is a thread like that, but it's so old and outdated that giving my opinion on it feels a bit awkward to me. So instead, I would like to make a new and fresh thread and see how different our opinions are from each other.

So let me ask this. Should I post my opinion on an old thread or make a new thread even though it would be pretty similar?
 

Megamang

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I don't know if 'ranking' is necessarily valid. As I say so often on these boards, MUs change drastically. Leaf shield aint **** against someone who can knock you offstage for using it, or someone who can Witch Time you for even doing it closely. At the same time, leaves alone make the Sonic MU extremely difficult for him. Bair is only alright against tiny speedsters with great recoveries, but it is practically MU defining against Ryu. and so on and so on.


I think a thread focused on the efficacy of different moves in different MUs is a good idea. Every 'ranking' based threat is kinda not helpful to anyone's metagame, in my opinion. Its one thing to say that 'you don't use much bair offstage, you should add that to your game' and another (less relevant IMHO) thing to say 'bair is better than dair, so use 60% bair and 40% dair'. Im not saying you are saying this, but ranking implies certain moves are better when really Mega has a lot of situations where the 'right' move is more determined by your opponents action and requires both MU and player knowledge.
 

Mythzotick

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That actually is a much better idea for a thread than simply just ranking each move since every mu is different and it would indeed do a better job at speeding up the meta game for us plus there will always be new discoveries for certain moves in the future that will end up changing our opinions over the course of time and that is something that you want for a discussion.

I think this future thread could end up being a fun topic for everyone to discuss and share different ideas with as well as benefit each other and spice things up a bit.

If you guys were to ask me where I think Megs stands right now, ScAtt and Kamemushi are showing us that Megs has a lot of potential, but it comes at a great cost. Compared to a lot of the top tiers, Megs requires much more time to get the hang of and has unsafe options. I consider Mega Man to be one of, if not the most difficult character to play because his meta revolves around patience and defense rather than going straight for the kill. I consider playing Megs to be like solving a math equation. Everything needs to add up, and the process can be taxing for a lot of people. However, if you're able to hang in there, you'll find that Megs has a lot of potential with one of the best neutral games out of the entire cast. I think because his strategies are so much different compared to most of the cast and some of his options being incredibly unsafe do make him high mid tier at the most right now, and maybe low high tier at best. That's not to say he's not good, because Megs is very good, but he requires so much patience to master and learn. It's times like this where I'm glad I have the Classic Mega Man feel wedged into my skull. (I'm not a top or competitive player, though so keep that in mind).
I believe that lemons, metal blades, metal blade setups, z-drops, and footstools hold the answers for us on how far can we go and if we can reach our maximum potential. Those moves/options can really help compliment other moves that are already good when used correctly such as slash claw, air shooter, and leaf shield to name a few as well as give them a much bigger role then without. You have to keep in mind that Mega Man for the most part has fantastic aerial mobility and it makes you feel like you have a ton of freedom whenever you're in the air. That too can play a huge part in the process. Also...

:4mario: = Basic Math
:4megaman: = Calculus
 

Megamang

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I also think Bair is super powerful and even abusive in some MUs. Megaman is one of the best characters at edgeguarding Ryu, and his mobility and power let him really really cause pain offstage.

As m2k explained about Cloud, if you are falling with someone and ready to jump-> bair, they have to guess your timing. There is no reacting to a f4 move and close to the same speed jump. You can even input the bair as you jump, because it lasts so long.

and its damn powerful. the only other f4 bair is Shieks, and its nothing compared to that.


At least, I think there are only 2 f4 bairs.
 

JustSomeScrub

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Looking for help on timing the super glide toss.

I can do it but only like 10 percent of the time.

My inputs are dash, wait a moment, dash again+A and then quickly flick up+B. (I have the A+B Smash attack option on, I'm on a 2DS).

I'm not sure where I keep mistiming it but I believe it might be that I'm not sure exactly when you are supposed to input the second dash. Also sometimes he throws the metal blade up instead of forward while sliding, not sure what's causing this either.

If anyone has timing cues that help with this please let me know.
 
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Meistermayo

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My inputs are dash, wait a moment, dash again+A and then quickly flick up+B. (I have the A+B Smash attack option on, I'm on a 2DS)./QUOTE]
The second dash is not actually necessary. All that you need to do is run forward, and press a, hold it, flick up and press b. The inputs should feel like theyre all happening on top of each other. Sometimes it feels like ypure inputting slide stick up-a-b really fast

If megaman throws the metal blade upwards, it is because you slid the stick a little too far up.

Reminder: tap jump must be off for this to work

Zdrops are becoming really cool because of all the damage and shields pressure options we are discovering with them. Footstool-> zdrop -> footstool -> lemon lock is a true combo fhat works on most of the cast, confirming from grab baits or lag punishes. Zdrop regrab can combo dk up to 70 and can land 45 on other big bodies.

It also leads to guaranteed grabs on shield as well as several shield break setups, like zdrop x1/2 utilt
 
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JustSomeScrub

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The second dash is not actually necessary. All that you need to do is run forward, and press a, hold it, flick up and press b. The inputs should feel like theyre all happening on top of each other. Sometimes it feels like ypure inputting slide stick up-a-b really fast

If megaman throws the metal blade upwards, it is because you slid the stick a little too far up.

Reminder: tap jump must be off for this to work

Zdrops are becoming really cool because of all the damage and shields pressure options we are discovering with them. Footstool-> zdrop -> footstool -> lemon lock is a true combo fhat works on most of the cast, confirming from grab baits or lag punishes. Zdrop regrab can combo dk up to 70 and can land 45 on other big bodies.

It also leads to guaranteed grabs on shield as well as several shield break setups, like zdrop x1/2 utilt
Oh I see thanks, I was watching a video and it suggested the second dash is necessary, that's really good to know.

Also for the last input, you press up and THEN B? Not at the same time? As that's what I've been trying to do. That's probably one of my issues then. I do have tap jump off.

Punishing grab whiffs with footstool setups? That's very interesting. I'll definitely look into that.

By lemon lock you mean jab reset right? So it'd be a guaranteed confirm into up tilt?

You're much better off practicing z drop shenanigans.
What kind of shenanigans other than the ones already mentioned? Is there a list or guide somewhere with practical ones?

Edit:

Aren't footstools supposed to be untechable? I'm trying some Megaman setups on the CPU but they just tech and then roll away. I guess it's possible they are missing the tech but have enough time to roll away anyway before I can do anything.
 
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Mythzotick

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Megamang Megamang I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what I want the thread to mainly focus on which is mostly what you said. All that's left is the name of the thread that is self-explanatory and will trigger interest. Any ideas?
 

JustSomeScrub

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Zdrops are becoming really cool because of all the damage and shields pressure options we are discovering with them. Footstool-> zdrop -> footstool -> lemon lock is a true combo fhat works on most of the cast, confirming from grab baits or lag punishes.
Can anyone describe in more detail how to do this? Or post a link if there's a video of it? Not sure how to set this up.

For me by the time I footstool and fast fall land, they have enough time to roll away before I can jab so I'm not sure how to make it a true combo.
 

_SLiB_

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My friends are telling me I need to learn claw grip. I have no experience with claw grip, but they tell me it's simply better all around. However, I'm taking their advice with a grain of salt since this advice comes from a cloud main and a fox main- both characters who Cleary benefit from the claw.

Tl;Dr: does megaman benefit greatly from claw grip?
 

smasher1001

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My friends are telling me I need to learn claw grip. I have no experience with claw grip, but they tell me it's simply better all around. However, I'm taking their advice with a grain of salt since this advice comes from a cloud main and a fox main- both characters who Cleary benefit from the claw.

Tl;Dr: does megaman benefit greatly from claw grip?
Do you want the benefits of claw grip WITHOUT using claw grip? Learn to use L R or Z for jump! I find this to be the much better option. The benefit of claw is you maintain control of c stick while jumping without losing aerial control like you would with tap jump or losing the travel time of your finger from jump to attack/special/cstick. You basically get the best of all worlds.
 

CanadianMegaMan

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I feel like nobody else uses up tilt from neutral get up as a mix up at the ledge for people who try to ledge guard dangerously. Maybe it's just my local scene, but I can usually net 1 stock per game with neutral get up > uptilt. I wouldn't throw it out more than once in a game, maybe even just once a set, but hey, free kill is free kill
 

CopShowGuy

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I feel like nobody else uses up tilt from neutral get up as a mix up at the ledge for people who try to ledge guard dangerously. Maybe it's just my local scene, but I can usually net 1 stock per game with neutral get up > uptilt. I wouldn't throw it out more than once in a game, maybe even just once a set, but hey, free kill is free kill
I do it if it feels like the opponent is being very aggressive. Not very often though.
 

CanadianMegaMan

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I do it if it feels like the opponent is being very aggressive. Not very often though.
It might be just my local scene then. The players I practice against tend to be very aggro, but they don't like to leave the stage to edge guard, they just wait at the ledge and try to punish get up options, if they don't block or grab, they need an attack faster than frame 5 to stop the shoryu
 

Ethan7

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Hi, I don't play Mega Man but what do you think are causing people to believe he is high tier or even top tier? Do you have any good videos of ScAtt, Kamemushi or someone?
 

Mythzotick

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Hi, I don't play Mega Man but what do you think are causing people to believe he is high tier or even top tier? Do you have any good videos of ScAtt, Kamemushi or someone?
Since hardly anyone plays Mega Man at a top or even high level due to him being extremely technical and requires a lot of patience, not a lot of people know what he is truly capable of until recently.

Kamemushi has won his last 3 notable tournaments and has made top 8 in 8 consecutive tournaments and ScAtt has being getting a lot of results lately whenever he gets the chance to travel as well. Here are some videos of top level Mega Man players and a couple of really disgusting combo videos showcasing how deep Mega Man is.


Hopefully this answers your questions.
 

Blubolouis

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I've been playing megaman for a couple of weeks and I have a couple questions about him.

Is landing uair>double-jump bair a true combo ? I can get it most of the times, but I couldn't on a Falco the other day.

I've spent a decent amount of time in training mode labbing the footstool combos. I've noticed I could get a footstool of of a Metal Blade thrown downwards (at least on Ryu). It does 10% where usually a Z-drop at that point does less damage. Is there a reason not to use the downward throw then ?

How would one get Z-drop metal blade>sweetspot utilt reliably ? (Out of a lock animation :) ) is it just dropping the metal blade as late as possible in the shorthop animation or am i missing something ? I get the sourspot utilt a lot of the time.

Thanks in advance for the answers.
 

Mythzotick

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I've been playing megaman for a couple of weeks and I have a couple questions about him.

Is landing uair>double-jump bair a true combo ? I can get it most of the times, but I couldn't on a Falco the other day.

I've spent a decent amount of time in training mode labbing the footstool combos. I've noticed I could get a footstool of of a Metal Blade thrown downwards (at least on Ryu). It does 10% where usually a Z-drop at that point does less damage. Is there a reason not to use the downward throw then ?

How would one get Z-drop metal blade>sweetspot utilt reliably ? (Out of a lock animation :) ) is it just dropping the metal blade as late as possible in the shorthop animation or am i missing something ? I get the sourspot utilt a lot of the time.

Thanks in advance for the answers.
Uair>dj>bair is a true combo, but you have to be precise in order to pull it off. First off, do you remember if the Falco jumped and/or how close you were to the ground when you pulled of the uair against him? Mega Man's uair has a windbox so if the Falco jumped, then it sent him flying where as if you simply stay down when you get hit by his uair, then you won't get launched. Also, the closer you are to the ground, the chances of you pulling it off are that much more likely.

When you mean by getting a footstool off of a mb thrown downwards, do you mean jumping on their head and then throwing it downwards, or just simply being in the air and then throwing it downwards? If you're planning on jumping on their head and then throwing the mb downwards, you're better off z-dropping as you'll find it to be easier instead. Throwing the mb downwards while you're in the air (you didn't jump on their head) is a safer option as you're away from your opponent, but you need to react to which direction they'll get launched depending on where the mb hit your opponent at.

The reason the mb did 10% instead of 5% was not because of you throwing it downwards instead z-dropping; it was because the mb hit Ryu twice. Some characters like :4bayonetta::4sheik::4zss: etc. will usually get hit by it once due to their skinny hurt box and characters like :4bowser::4charizard::4dk: will get hit by it at least twice due to their big, square like hurt box.

You have to keep in mind that z-drop mb and throwing mb downards is character specific when you factor in the size of their hurt box and what side their facing, especially for z-drop mb on the ground when you jump on their head. Most characters are dealt the same amount of damage regardless of what side they're facing, but some characters are different. Take :4littlemac: for example. If he is facing AWAY FROM YOU when you jump on his head and z-drop mb, it'll do 10% damage. But if Little Mac is facing TOWARDS YOU when you jump on his head and z-drop mb, it won't hit him at all unless you move a little bit after you z-drop mb which is really difficult. Characters like :4rob: despise this tactic as it can do 10% when he is facing towards you and 15% when he is facing away from you. It's even possible to land 20% on him and some of the other characters when you do a simple sh z-drop mb.

It also depends on the character you're going up against when you cause a jab reset and are about to sh z-drop mb into utilt as the different sizes and get up animations are all different. Whenever you're practicing sh z-drop mb into utilt, try aiming at the apex of the jump or just as you're falling down as well as stay at a certain distance depending on the size of the other character. It's really tricky and hard to explain, but that seems to make the most sense.
 

Blubolouis

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Thanks for the answer. I don't remember about the falco scenario, I'll assume I was mispaced on the uair or too slow on the follow-up.

Yeah I was talking about grounded footstool>dtrow mb> footstool instead of footstool>zdrop mb> footstool. I get what you're saying, but actually I tried the dtrow variation because I had trouble witj the Zdrop one: sometimes, even after I've let go of the control stick for a while after the footstool, megaman would throw the mb forward when I tried to simply Zdrop it. It's probably a question of buffers due to momentum before the footstool itself or something like that.
Since I noticed that the dthrow variation would always inflict 10% on Ryu whereas the Zdrop one usually deals only 5% on him, I'm wondering if it might not be better on certain characters (for instance, downward throw will always hit little mac regardless of his and megaman's orientation, but will always send him flying towards his own backward direction). But I get the idea that it's basically all character dependent.

Also, yesterday I entered my first megaman-only tournament, and basically first offline megaman experience, and I had trouble with the leaf shield>footstool gimps. More often than not, I would get the footstool but my opponent would get hit by leaves right after and wouldn't be in a bad spot anymore, being able to upB right away. Why is that ? How can I avoid it ? Is it a matter of initiating the footstool when the leaf shield is about to end ?
 

GoodGuy

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Anyone know the the best stages to pick for :4megaman: and what stages I should ban for people like :4fox: or :4zss: .
 

Mythzotick

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Anyone know the the best stages to pick for :4megaman: and what stages I should ban for people like :4fox: or :4zss: .
Imo, I would say that Battlefield is his most preferred stage thanks to the platforms allowing air shooter to be a lot more dangerous and has large blast zones. Dream Land 64 and Duck Hunt are good stages as well.

:4megaman: doesn't particularly have any bad stages and is more mu based/preference than anything. For :4fox: and :4zss:, I'd try to ban Final Destination or Town & City. FD has no platforms to help our projectile game as much and T&C has low blast zones. Both stages allow them both to be rush down heavy and can kill you earlier since they have great set ups to seal a stock.

Lylat is another stage I would consider banning due to the stage constantly tilting; messing up our projectile game and our recovery, but I'm not as familiar with it as I am with BF, FD, T&C, and Smashville.

I have no experience on Delfino Plaza or Castle Siege, but me personally, I would not want to play on either stage due to the stages constantly changing and at some point can be walk offs.

If you haven't already, I recommend checking out this thread as it might help you out even more.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mega-man-good-stages-and-combos-setups.427288/
 

Mega-Spider

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Hey guys. I have a question about Leaf Shield. Is it possible to cancel it earlier when you're being knocked off the edge of the stage, and do you have enough time to save yourself?
 
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