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Connor's House Tournament: 12/05/09 This is still happening!
- Thread starter ConnorTheKid
- Start date
festizzio
Smash Champion
like you care. I'll give you an actual answer when you call me by something that isn't dumb.
I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.
My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.
Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.
If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).
Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.
Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.
The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.
I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.
Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.
Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.
Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.
If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).
Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.
Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.
The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.
I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.
Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.
Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
Ganon sucks
joeplicate
Smash Master
jdm is amazing LOL
rudeezy
Smash Journeyman
i smell gamefaqs
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Ahahaha, so this is what it's like when JDM talks.
The only way Ganon hits you is if you run into it.
Falco wins with lasers and a shine.
C. Falcon wins with a neutral air.
Sheik wins by outcamping him.
Slow, gets comboed by everyone. Every character good in this game is pretty fast.
The % doesn't matter because other characters make up for it by actually being able to combo and hit people.
The only way Ganon hits you is if you run into it.
His recovery sucks, though. It's super predictable.
Rolls aren't good enough to do what I bolded.
Ganon's wd (and waveland especially) is really important.
And in turn he trades in the ability to combo consistently.
Watch more videos. Eddie, Tipman, Linguini, Kage, and Chaddd all used Ganon seriously.
Fox wins with a shine.
Falco wins with lasers and a shine.
C. Falcon wins with a neutral air.
Sheik wins by outcamping him.
I coulda told you that
Encomium? Hahaha, whoda thunk it.
lmaoooooooo
I am better than everyone else.
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
obvious troll is pretty well hidden
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
No, this is what it's like when JDM decides to bring Gamefaqs to SWF.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
I went on GameFAQs' Melee boards for the first time in like five years... and I gotta say they still ****.
I saw Fly there. "SoCal ICs." Too cute.
PS Money match my Marth
I saw Fly there. "SoCal ICs." Too cute.
PS Money match my Marth
joeplicate
Smash Master
JDM *****
get ***** adam, connor
get ***** adam, connor
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
gamefaqs has some amazing guides tho
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
cunning kitsune's guide is the best
festizzio
Smash Champion
jdm our team name should be zelda's dtilt, which i like because it means, without insane di, we can combo our opponents infinitely almost
joeplicate
Smash Master
or, "zelda's dtilts," a cleverly disguised reference to zelda's breasts
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
ill be honest
i read it as zeldas ****
i read it as zeldas ****
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
word
10ch
10ch
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Sorry about not making it to your Bi-weekly Connor.
I'm in a really shitty/depressing/upsetting situation. Hopefully next time.
I'm in a really shitty/depressing/upsetting situation. Hopefully next time.
WhatIsFear
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 26, 2005
- Messages
- 509
if i ever go to one of these, ima get you.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
if you can't beat my fox... 
WhatIsFear
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 26, 2005
- Messages
- 509
apparently i can with peachif you can't beat my fox...
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
***** please
Sleepy
Smash Ace
when you post half a page long, people would think you're serious....
Either way ganon doesn't suck, ganon mains can **** if you underestimate the power over darkness!
Either way ganon doesn't suck, ganon mains can **** if you underestimate the power over darkness!
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
corron cakes
festizzio
Smash Champion
it was a direct copypasta from gamefaqs, it's obviously not serious
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
just like this post
festizzio
Smash Champion
obviously now shut the **** UP
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
i have 2 pee
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
JDM never talks though. silent mindgames
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
Connor i want your cakes!
TheBOSS
Smash Lord
me and some sd hoes is comin up for the next one of these fo sho
festizzio
Smash Champion
i'm counterpicking onett all day
petoo0
Smash Ace
palmdale might make this..some of us at least
Sleepy
Smash Ace
when's the next one? if it's this coming sat I'm going.
festizzio
Smash Champion
There IS one this saturday, right? RIGHT!?!?