Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[osby]

Here’s a little something I said in the latest news article (which can be found right here):

I can see where you are coming from but I'm not sure what's the difference between working on Spring Man or another character at this point now that the AT has been around for a couple of years. It's not like making Spring Man playable will require more time and energy than Min Min.

Also, I think "just to promote an Assist Trophy" is a bit misleading phrase. If they choose to make Spring Man a playable character, it won't be for the sake of "let's make a promotion" but likely because he's a pretty popular character who also happens to be one of the faces of his game.

I'm not saying you should like it, of course.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Regardless of anything, no matter how much we want specific characters, we have no control over the final outcome. We'll just have to accept who they chose.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Even then I could expect Spring Man being the only exceptional assist promotion given he was planned for Base.

Plus I could see why as he's the mascot/protagonist and that always comes first. Since when has an franchise gone first without the mascot/protagonist?

 

[Trevenant]

Maybe bigger than that. Unlike with Hero, the only main issue is numbers in this case (8 at the very maximum). Even if they could somehow work around the ones with more unusual body shapes and/or abilities, they won't fit in all 15 fighters because of the number limit, so 8 might be doable (especially since one of them is a robot knockoff).

Just saw this to say that although I don't think it's likely, little Mac has 16 alts in Smash 4 and iirc Wario had 8 in Brawl.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Just saw this to say that although I don't think it's likely, little Mac has 16 alts in Smash 4 and iirc Wario had 8 in Brawl.

They currently haven't deviated from 8 in this one, likely due to shorter development, even for the DLC fighters. So I wouldn't expect that to change.

 

[SwitchButton]

Terry's a cool character from a cool series.

I mean you can like him all you want but pretending Terry has any appeal outside of "look he's like ryu" is a joke. He's not really unique and he lacks any real identity outside of being a generic Ryu/Heihachi shoto. There's a reason Fatal Fury as a whole lived and died in Street Fighter 2's shadow

He’s most popular among Latin American audiences

Why do people constantly say this when there's no proof?

 

[The_Naraotor]

I'm a total stranger regarding this IP so either Min Min, Twintelle or Spring Man I am fine with either of them. As long as the character is fun to play.

 

[Digital Hazard]

He's not really unique and he lacks any real identity outside of being a generic Ryu/Heihachi shoto.

Imagine thinking Terry copied a character that was created three years after him.

Why do people constantly say this when there's no proof?

I am from El Salvador, I live in a rural town, and even though I admittedly never touched a KoF or Fatal Fury game, I was not only only aware of their existence, but used to see plenty of arcade machines around. People in my town pirated SNK games a lot in their phones and PS2 disks. But oh well, don't take my word, take it from here:

13:53: "And I'm not gonna lie, besides Japan, The King of Fighters series is extremely popular here in Mexico and Latin America, with a large fanbase that opened the gate to a healthy competitive community that is as prosper today as in its first years.

Be it in the largest conventions or video game tourneys, to even the smallest convenience stores, the presence of The King of Fighters, in our third world countries, is undeniable, as it's a piece of pop culture ingrained so much in us LA gamers, as bad odor (LOL).

And just like how the Japanese enjoyed the inclusion of Hero, English speakers were euphoric at Banjo & Kazooie, and the internet, ****posters and memers had Sans, we Latin Americans had the joy of having an iconic figure such as Terry Bogard in a game as big as Super Smash Bros."

This said while showing footage of excited reactions and people playing the games.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Here’s a little something I said in the latest news article (which can be found right here):

I'm not some game development Einstein either, but do you really think it would be any more work than Joker's victory screen or the KoF Stadium cameos? Also I don't think everything's the same when it comes to AT toggling, as certain ATs prevent others from showing up while they're active. And how do you know they can't program another way to disable ATs?

 

[Johnknight1]

I mean you can like him all you want but pretending Terry has any appeal outside of "look he's like ryu" is a joke. He's not really unique and he lacks any real identity outside of being a generic Ryu/Heihachi shoto. There's a reason Fatal Fury as a whole lived and died in Street Fighter 2's shadow

There it is folks. The most uninformed post ever on SmashBoards. Thank you all for participating, but we have a clear winner.

Yes according to our winner, the 30 fighting game appearances of Terry all were an illusion. Wow, such insight!

 

[osby]

I mean you can like him all you want but pretending Terry has any appeal outside of "look he's like ryu" is a joke. He's not really unique and he lacks any real identity outside of being a generic Ryu/Heihachi shoto. There's a reason Fatal Fury as a whole lived and died in Street Fighter 2's shadow

An American guy who dresses like a trucker and yells "Are you OK?" is too similar to Japanese martial artists, got it.

Why do people constantly say this when there's no proof?

Because there is proof. From Wikipedia:

With KOF XIV, SNK noted the series' popularity was still dominant in South America and China, leading to the creation of teams composed of characters from those areas.

Source

 

[Trevenant]

Here’s a little something I said in the latest news article (which can be found right here):

It could be complex but it's unlikely that it's complex enough to an extent that it would cause Sakurai to overwork himself especially when characters nowadays are 10x more of a workload than what that would inevitably be. Joker has Arsense who also has an animation for every attack Joker has with most of them being distinct, Hero has 3 gimmicks in one, Terry has a back special which also isn't in the standardised control scheme which is probably the same workload as disabling an assist. This just seems like a weird reason. Especially considering you could argue that it's purely subjective as, like you said, we are assuming it's simple

 

[SwitchButton]

Imagine thinking Terry copied a character that was created three years after him.

When did I say he copied heihachi? I said that he's a generic default shoto. Which he is. Hell I could even go as far to say that he absolutely is a Ryu knockoff though considering he was only invented because Street Fighter 2 was setting arcades on fire.

I am from El Salvador, I live in a rural town, and even though I admittedly never touched a KoF or Fata Fury game, I was not only only aware of their existence, but used to see plenty of arcade machines around. People in my town pirated SNK games a lot in their phones and PS2 disks. But oh well, don't take my word, take it from here:

That's an anecdotal, not proof. If Terry is so iconic in latin america then surely actual definitive proof should exist? Where are the actual numbers? Surely latin americans actually buy the games if they like it so much?

An American guy who dresses like a trucker and yells "Are you OK?" is too similar to Japanese martial artists, got it.

Yes, a generic torn sleeved shoto is identical to a torn sleeved shoto. "Hat Ken" exists for a reason.

Because there is proof. From Wikipedia:

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. They straight up teach you this in school.

There it is folks. The most uninformed post ever on SmashBoards. Thank you all for participating, but we have a clear winner.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

God I hope we get the reveal/release in early-mid June and not the end of the month since Nintendo loves putting things out at the very end of the month/last possible second. Kinda sick of the speculating/waiting and just want to know who the character is. Also I hope during the ARMS showcase video Nintendo/Sakurai confirm that DLC fighters will be recieving amiibo in the future.

 

[Digital Hazard]

When did I say he copied heihachi? I said that he's a generic default shoto. Which he is. Hell I could even go as far to say that he absolutely is a Ryu knockoff though considering he was only invented because Street Fighter 2 was setting arcades on fire.

Yeah, stereotypical American guy is the same as generic karate guy because they both use martial arts.

Also the first Fatal Fury started development around the same time as Street Fighter II, made by the same director as the first SF to make a fighting game with a degree of a plot. There's no way to copy what you don't know is being in the made.

That's an anecdotal, not proof. If Terry is so iconic in latin america then surely actual definitive proof should exist? Where are the actual numbers? Surely latin americans actually buy the games if they like it so much?

I provided you with a video that has footage of people excited and playing.

 

[SwitchButton]

stereotypical American guy

Terry isn't a stereotypical american, he's a stereotypical shoto, which is a japanese-invented concept. Hell fighters with long ponytails is specifically a japanese thing, not american.

I provided you with a video that has footage of people excited and playing.

Yes and that cherry picked footage is very nice but where's your actual proof with numbers? You do know that it's really easy to show the numbers of an iconic series, right? I could pull up numbers that prove how giant and popular Sonic the Hedgehog is for example, yet you can't do that for Terry? .....I wonder why? Hmmmm......

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There it is folks. The most uninformed post ever on SmashBoards. Thank you all for participating, but we have a clear winner.

Yes according to our winner, the 30 fighting game appearances of Terry all were an illusion. Wow, such insight!

If you made an argument that Terry’s a nobody on the Shoryken forum, or really anywhere within the fighting game community, you’d be mocked by fighting game fans. I remember there was a thread On r/fighters asking if Terry could be seen as obscure and people there were pretty annoyed at that sentiment.

 

[SwitchButton]

you’d be mocked by fighting game fans.

Only Smash fans who famously don't even play fighting games will say this. SNK has quite literally never had a big following even within the FGC. Hell Fatal Fury didn't even last long enough to see the modern Fighting Game culture. And for SNK's most popular game, King of Fighters?

https://steamcharts.com/app/571260

Has never had any real popularity.

 

[Johnknight1]

View attachment 272561

Dang, you really responded to me with a picture of a racist incel. You really do know all about The Garo Densetsu and The King of Fighters.

Also you're doubling down on calling Terry a shoto ROFLLLL. You don't even know what a shoto is. You just heard the word once and assume every Japanese fighting game character is a shoto.

You probably think Haohmaru, Sol Badguy and Noel Vermillion are shotos ROFLLLLL.

 

[osby]

Terry isn't a stereotypical american, he's a stereotypical shoto, which is a japanese-invented concept. Hell fighters with long ponytails is specifically a japanese thing, not american.

"All shotos and long-haired dudes are Japanese" wasn't a hot take I was expecting to hear today.

 

[Guynamednelson]

https://steamcharts.com/app/571260

Fighting games are considerably less popular on PC than consoles.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Only Smash fans who famously don't even play fighting games will say this.

I guess all these people aren’t even fighting game fans.

 

[SwitchButton]

Dang, you really responded to me with a picture of a racist incel.

Gross. Not even touching this post. Don't bring that whole toxic can of worms here, please.

All shotos and long-haired dudes are Japanese

Why do you keep inventing strawmen arguments? I didn't say that.

Fighting games are considerably less popular on PC than consoles.

https://steamcharts.com/app/389730 what was that you were saying?

 

[Digital Hazard]

Terry isn't a stereotypical american, he's a stereotypical shoto, which is a japanese-invented concept. Hell fighters with long ponytails is specifically a japanese thing, not american.

Yeah, a blonde guy dressed in blue, red and white who shouts "Are you OK?" or attacks in heavily accented Engrish isn't meant to be a stereotypical American because he has some martial arts moves.

Yes and that cherry picked footage is very nice but where's your actual proof with numbers? You do know that it's really easy to show the numbers of an iconic series, right? I could pull up numbers that prove how giant and popular Sonic the Hedgehog is for example, yet you can't do that for Terry? .....I wonder why? Hmmmm......

In a nutshell, this video explains that arcade machines were very rentable back in the day because parents were like "why should I buy my son a console when he can just play some games for just some cents?" and that SNK ones were particularly popular due to the Neo Geo being able to use multiple cartridges.

Also there was piracy. Lots and lots of piracy.

And it also includes footage and is made by a Mexican, but oh well, according to you it'll be "cherry picked".

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

I haven't been in this thread in awhile and im not going back pages to read how we got here but why the **** are we talking about Terry Bogard in the ARMS thread? What is the correlation? They are both from fighting games? What is even the argument here? How relevant Terry is or not? What does this **** have to do with ARMS?

 

[Perkilator]

Guys, if we’re going to argue about Terry, at least don‘t do it in the ARMS thread.

 

[SwitchButton]

Yeah, a blonde guy dressed in blue, red and white who shouts "Are you OK?" or attacks in heavily accented Engrish isn't meant to be a stereotypical American because he has some martial arts moves.

I'm not sure why you're going out of your way to over-descript the characters design as if it changes anything about him being a stereotypical japanese shoto. As if shotos aren't allowed to wear the color red and white. Better tell Ryu about that deal-breaker. Terry can't even speak english properly. Even RYU, THE CONFIRMED JAPANESE MAN, speaks english properly.

Also there was piracy. Lots and lots of piracy.

I mean this kinda proves me right then. If they really did like Fatal Fury they would have actually bought a Neo Geo and fed money to the arcade cabinets. If they're just pirating it they probably aren't really that invested in the series.

And it also includes footage, but oh well, according to you it'll be "cherry picked".

Because it IS cherry picked

 

[Mamboo07]

Wtf just happened here, something about Terry?

 

[SwitchButton]

Wtf just happened here, something about Terry?

Another user mentioned the common fact that Terry is a niche character with not much notoriety and all like 4 SNK fans that still exist did the usual SNK fan thing and flipped out.

Just like they did to SamSho's twitter lol

 

[Johnknight1]

If you made an argument that Terry’s a nobody on the Shoryken forum, or really anywhere within the fighting game community, you’d be mocked by fighting game fans. I remember there was a thread On r/fighters asking if Terry could be seen as obscure and people there were pretty annoyed at that sentiment.

Absolutely. I lived on either side of the California/Mexico border in 97-99 when KOF was at a peak and let me tell you... KOF 97 and 98 dominated the arcades there then. Not SF2, not some Capcom-made Marvel fighter, not the trash that is vanilla SF3, not Tekken 2 or 3, not MK3 or 4.

No it was KOF. It wasn't close.

SNK had a big following in Japan and Latin America, notable fanbases in Europe and North America, and of course a gigantic following on and off in China (KOF 97 is one of the biggest fighting games among 90's/00's fighting game fans there). Anyone who has gone to a fighting game tournament that involves multiple fighting game franchises and companies knows what SNK is. And guess what? SNK is coming back big time now.

The fact this kid doesn't know anything about SNK fighters while talking about a fighting game is sad. People just assume niche fanbases don't exist while saying "Yeah Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus and Punch-Out, they're popular!" LMAOOOO.

Side note: play KOF '98. It is maybe the best fighting game ever. SNK fighters are so far ahead on rolls and other things and KOF '98 still have concepts other companies refuse to use that work. The fact someone dismisses SNK's fighter history when TBH their staff starting fighting games (Fatal Fury 1 had more SF1 devs than SF2 did) is laughable.

Not to mention the character design of SNK is so good, their character design staff has been pouched by legit every Japanese fighting game dev... and of course Sakurai copied it. For damn good reason, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

 

[SwitchButton]

The fact this kid doesn't know anything about SNK fighters while talking about a fighting game is sad. People just assume niche fanbases don't exist while saying "Yeah Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus and Punch-Out, they're popular!" LMAOOOO.

All three of those games are more popular then SNK's entire roster of franchises.

Also it's funny that you need to say SNK, because you know that you can't get away with calling any of their individual IPs popular or iconic.

At absolute BEST, any SNK game was only modestly relevant for 3-4 years in the 90's among the couple hundred people that actually went to organized tournaments. They never had any actual popularity.

 

[MattX20]

Once June starts within the next 9 days, you can almost assuredly bet there will be "leaks" a plenty over the identity of the ARMS rep and anyone else that might follow after

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Gross. Not even touching this post. Don't bring that whole toxic can of worms here, please.

You're being just a big hypocrite...

 

[SwitchButton]

Once June starts within the next 9 days, you can almost assuredly bet there will be "leaks" a plenty over the identity of the ARMS rep and anyone else that might follow after

 

[Johnknight1]

Another user mentioned the common fact that Terry is a niche character with not much notoriety and all like 4 SNK fans that still exist did the usual SNK fan thing and flipped out.

Just like they did to SamSho's twitter lol

Today I learned random internet user SwitchButton knows more about how popular SNK fighters are than:

1. Nintendo for getting as many SNK fighters as they could on the Switch eShop (which sold well)
2. Capcom and their apparently ill-informed devs for making Capcom vs. SNK 1 and 2
3. Harada and the Tekken devs for wrongly adding Geese Howard to Tekken 7 and wrongly doing a crossover event with KOF All-Stars
4. Takahashi and the Soulcalibur devs for wrongly adding Haohmaru to Soulcalibur VI
5. Sakurai and the Smash devs for wrongly adding Terry Bogard to Smash Ultimate
6. Vince McMahon and the WWE for wrongly having a crossover event in KOF All-Stars

and last but not least

7. The Smash Bros. fans:

Nope, random internet man with maybe the most boring and uninspired username and profile picture I've ever seen who clearly doesn't understand what a fighting game is

They are the true expert.

 

[MattX20]

View attachment 272566

Yep, and my final guess is still MinMin given all the things regarding her, the last Party Crash Bash, and being a personal favorite of Yabuki.

 

[Johnknight1]

All three of those games are more popular then SNK's entire roster of franchises.

Ahh yes, Ice Climbers, a series that continues while King of Fighters does not. Clearly that is why Ice Climbers XV got this huge EVO reveal:

Also, yo Swamp Sensei I'm here to claim my "DebateMania II" belt.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yep, and my final guess is still MinMin given all the things regarding her, the last Party Crash Bash, and being a personal favorite of Yabuki.

Aside from the Party Crash and Yabuki things, what else does she have in her favor?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Aside from the Party Crash and Yabuki things, what else does she have in her favor?

They say popularity although some argues that Twintelle is more popular.

Not like popularity even mattered anyways...

 

[SwitchButton]

Today I learned random internet user SwitchButton knows more about how popular SNK fighters are than:

1. Nintendo for getting as many SNK fighters as they could on the Switch eShop (which sold well)
2. Capcom and their apparently ill-informed devs for making Capcom vs. SNK 1 and 2
3. Harada and the Tekken devs for wrongly adding Geese Howard to Tekken 7 and wrongly doing a crossover event with KOF All-Stars
4. Takahashi and the Soulcalibur devs for wrongly adding Haohmaru to Soulcalibur VI
5. Sakurai and the Smash devs for wrongly adding Terry Bogard to Smash Ultimate
6. Vince McMahon and the WWE for wrongly having a crossover event in KOF All-Stars

and last but not least

7. The Smash Bros. fans:

Nope, random internet man with maybe the most boring and uninspired username and profile picture I've ever seen who clearly doesn't understand what a fighting game is

They are the true expert.

SNK spends more money advertising their games in other peoples games then they do on their actual development budgets. Funny how you can make a big angry rant about me but you can't put in the effort to actually prove that any of SNK's games have any actual popularity.

Where's your numbers, son?

Ahh yes, Ice Climbers, a series that continues while King of Fighters does not. Clearly that is why Ice Climbers XV got this huge EVO reveal:

Ice Climbers outsold every SNK game ever made. That's bigger then an advertisement that SNK paid for. And a lot of good that reveal did considering nobody bought the game.