Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[MattX20]

I'm not exactly optimistic for Springman's chances this round due to his AT status. That, and we never had a Mii Fighter costume upgrade happen in the same game with the costume's introduction either, so Ribbon Girl is not likely either. My guess is MinMin due to her last big time victory in the Party Crash Bash on top of her unanimous popularity between fans and the producers/developers.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm not exactly optimistic for Springman's chances this round due to his AT status. That, and we never had a Mii Fighter costume upgrade happen in the same game either, so Ribbon Girl is not likely either. My guess is MinMin due to her last big time victory in the Party Crash Bash on top of her unanimous popularity between fans and the producers/developers.

That will depend entirely on whether or not they continue to ignore spirits. If so, she's out, if not, she's in.

Fortunately the fact that they showed off the entire roster makes it still possible for it to be a surprise in the event she does get confirmed.

 

[Farbeitfromme]

It's been a while since I posted on this board, so I just wanted to swing by and say congratulations on the recent reveal! I've not played ARMS beyond the demo, but I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with this character. It certainly is creating quite a buzz as to what's possible as far as a new character is concerned.

I'm in it for Twintelle, but I have a feeling Min Min is going to be the rep, and that would be awesome too. Spring Man would be fine, but with his AT already in the game, it seems like the developers would have extra incentive to take things in an unexpected direction. That's not to say I think he's impossible, but it would be slightly awkward and there are other viable candidates.

As for a character with multiple skins, I think there's some possibility, but if they do that I would like to see the characters' individual personalities shine through somehow. If they do go that route, I hope they use some of the different characters' abilities as well, instead of sticking all four (eight?) with a generic, non-specific overarching moveset.

All in all, this news is welcome to me, and I may consider adding ARMS to my Switch collection in the near future, especially if they're redoing the online events. Punch Out Wii was one of my favorite Wii games, and ARMS has a lot of similarities. The character design is diverse and well done, I love the official art that I've seen, and I'd like to see more.

Anyway, here's to our next extendable addition to Smash, whoever it might be!

 

[MattX20]

That will depend entirely on whether or not they continue to ignore spirits. If so, she's out, if not, she's in.

Fortunately the fact that they showed off the entire roster makes it still possible for it to be a surprise in the event she does get confirmed.

I never believed spirits from the base game deconfirmed anything beyond the first Fighter Pass. That, and we did have Mewtwo and Lucas both get trophies before in Smash 4 and still got to be DLC anyway, and spirits were the replacement for trophies, so that's how I view it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I never believed spirits from the base game deconfirmed anything beyond the first Fighter Pass. That, and we did have Mewtwo and Lucas both get trophies before in Smash 4 and still got to be DLC anyway, and spirits were the replacement for trophies, so that's how I view it.

Yeah, the only reason they'd ignore the opportunity for Min Min is if they want the fighter inclusion to be a complete surprise for the sake of it.

I just hope that other character supporters who assume spirits mean nothing won't freak out if she's passed over somehow...

 

[Trevenant]

But ARMS is a very new IP, so it's still possible for things to change.

Heck, I'm pretty sure Pikachu was never intended to be the mascot when Gen 1 released because it takes a while to even see one, he just ended up being popular which led to Ash getting one in the anime, and that's why Pikachu is the face of Pokemon and why he was the first Pokemon character in Smash.

ARMS could be having the exact same scenario.


It's almost like the ones who thinks it's an easy thing they can do in 5 minutes don't even know the slightest bit of programming.

I mean, the very fact that ATs being disabled is on a stage to stage basis already means they essentially have to flip that switch off 116 times, one for each stage including the ones we'll get in Pass 2, training mode and custom stages as a whole.

So many errors and glitches can happen if it's done in any way that isn't objectively flawless because coding needs to be extremely precise to even function, which adds roadblocks that wouldn't be there if they picked anyone but Spring Man.

But we don't know about anything pertaining to the future of ARMS that's the thing. Speculation involves setting guidelines in order to try and trim down who could have been chosen but if we start taking into account things we don't even know exist then it turns it into even more of a mess. We can't really take into account the future of ARMS when there is nothing atm to account for. That's why I'm basing my logic off of ARMS 1 until something suggests I should do otherwise

guys, stop trying to figure out whats going on in sakurais head, it wont do you any good

In that case we should stop speculation as a whole as that's pretty much the entire point of it.

 

[SwitchButton]

But ARMS is a very new IP, so it's still possible for things to change.

Heck, I'm pretty sure Pikachu was never intended to be the mascot when Gen 1 released because it takes a while to even see one, he just ended up being popular which led to Ash getting one in the anime, and that's why Pikachu is the face of Pokemon and why he was the first Pokemon character in Smash.

ARMS could be having the exact same scenario.

ARMS has had too much media that focuses on Spring Man for them to change mascots at this point. Spring Man has the clone, the main character role in both the western and japanese comics, the highest volume of Smash content (Spirit, Costume, AND Assist), and easily the most promotional presence. The final boss, Max Brass, was also clearly build to be a parallel to Spring Man.

 

[MattX20]

ARMS has had too much media that focuses on Spring Man for them to change mascots at this point. Spring Man has the clone, the main character role in both the western and japanese comics, the highest volume of Smash content (Spirit, Costume, AND Assist), and easily the most promotional presence. The final boss, Max Brass, was also clearly build to be a parallel to Spring Man.

ARMS never really had a main character so to speak. He was present in a lot of the marketing, but SpringMan was relegated to AT and Mii Fighter costume status, which doesn't speak well of his chances to me. Compared to MinMin, Ninjara, and Twintelle who only got spirits, SpringMan has a much higher wall to clear

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm not exactly optimistic for Springman's chances this round due to his AT status. That, and we never had a Mii Fighter costume upgrade happen in the same game with the costume's introduction either, so Ribbon Girl is not likely either. My guess is MinMin due to her last big time victory in the Party Crash Bash on top of her unanimous popularity between fans and the producers/developers.

My thoughts exactly. Min Min’s a mere Spirit, and we saw that 1. the team handling Spirits is separate from the main team, with how Spirit events are still being rolled out in this situation, and 2. Spirits can be renamed (I.e. Hilda (Legend of Zelda)) and have content updated to reflect DLC (Cuphead spirits depending on if you have the Cuphead costume).

While a different series, the Mii Costume not being promoted in the same game, barring veterans and base roster peeps, makes me think Rex (Xenoblade series) is toast As he has a costume and Xeno 2 music. Elma’s a mere Spirit and has no X music so she might happen imo.

speaking of music - while Spring Man got an AT and Ribbon Girl a costume, there’s no ARMS music atm. All dlc barring Piranha Plant comes with music so... I’d say the lack of ARMS music in base helped its chances for DLC

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'll never exactly understand why people think assist trophy promotions are possible as its never happened before in the same game.

The only times it happens is when its for the next game notably Little Mac from Brawl to Sm4sh and Isabelle and Dark Samus from Sm4sh to Ultimate. As with Mii costumes.

That said I find spirits to be more likely to be upgraded.

 

[Staarih]

ARMS never really had a main character so to speak. He was present in a lot of the marketing, but SpringMan was relegated to AT and Mii Fighter costume status, which doesn't speak well of his chances to me. Compared to MinMin, Ninjara, and Twintelle who only got spirits, SpringMan has a much higher wall to clear

Him being the AT and having a Mii costume speaks a lot of him being a main character though - he was chosen before anyone else in those positions. His spirit is also the highest class of the bunch (three stars with Min Min, but with three support slots next to Min Min’s two). I do see Spring Man as the Ryu of ARMS, but of course that isn’t a guarantee that he’ll be chosen for Smash. There’s a precedent for it happening, sure, but this DLC cycle could go either way really.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Picking the fighting franchise's "Ryu" for a crossover game feels like the right thing to do. Not because they're the most popular, but because they best embody what the game is all about.

It also helps that the two "Ryus" we have, Terry and Ryu himself, happen to have decades worth of legacy under their belts, making it unrealistic to imagine any other SF or SNK character showing up before them.

Spring Man may be the "Ryu" of ARMS, but ARMS itself doesn't have much of a legacy, about three years as of this post, and we don't know what will Nintendo do with its cast, so it's very possible things can change.

Will things change? I don't know. All I'm doing is pointing out that it's possible.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, since the fighter is one that uses extendable arms (as said in the teaser), would it technically disqualify Twintelle since she uses her hair instead?

That is, assuming that the statement is taken to be literal, rather than spiritually referring to the ARMS factor.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Picking the fighting franchise's "Ryu" for a crossover game feels like the right thing to do. Not because they're the most popular, but because they best embody what the game is all about.

It also helps that the two "Ryus" we have, Terry and Ryu himself, happen to have decades worth of legacy under their belts, making it unrealistic to imagine any other SF or SNK character showing up before them.

Spring Man may be the "Ryu" of ARMS, but ARMS itself doesn't have much of a legacy, about three years as of this post, and we don't know what will Nintendo do with its cast, so it's very possible things can change.

Will things change? I don't know. All I'm doing is pointing out that it's possible.

I guess Nightmare and Heihachi shouldn't be include then since despite being the mascots/faces of their franchises, they're the antagonists.

 

[Trevenant]

So, since the fighter is one that uses extendable arms (as said in the teaser), w @

ould it technically disqualify Twintelle since she uses her hair instead?

That is, assuming that the statement is taken to be literal, rather than spiritually referring to the ARMS factor.

She was on the character screen so I don't see why.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I guess Nightmare and Heihachi shouldn't be include then since despite being the mascots/faces of their franchises, they're the antagonists.

In fairness to Heihachi, his current VA is dead, and last I checked Bamco isn't ready to release a new main installment yet (mobile spin-off notwithstanding)...

She was on the character screen so I don't see why.

That's fair enough. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

In fairness to Heihachi, his current VA is dead, and last I checked Bamco isn't ready to release a new main installment yet (mobile spin-off notwithstanding)...

You realize they can change the voice actor or just record his lines from the Tekken games right? Its been done with many characters in Smash.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You realize they can change the voice actor or just record his lines right? Been done with many characters.

Yes, but in Japanese culture, they let the fans have time to mourn the dead VA for a while, because they otherwise have a hard time accepting their replacement. This is why, for instance, Lupin the Third rarely had any main cast changes until they got too old or died, and why Phil was oddly quiet in Kingdom Hearts III (since his Japanese VA died sometime before it released).

It might sound strange and counterintuitive to other cultures, but that's what they normally do.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yes, but in Japanese culture, they let the fans have time to mourn the dead VA for a while, because they otherwise have a hard time accepting their replacement. This is why, for instance, Lupin the Third rarely had any main cast changes until they got too old or died, and why Phil was oddly quiet in Kingdom Hearts III.

And I'll repeat again why is Heihachi an exception when its been done for some characters in Smash? Hmmm...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I guess Nightmare and Heihachi shouldn't be include then since despite being the mascots/faces of their franchises, they're the antagonists.

These two are very strange cases.

Nightmare is the main antagonist, but at the same time, he's very much the most iconic, to the point where the team making the SoulCalibur games literally use him at their logo.

Heihachi isn't that odd because every main protagonist in Tekken was a villain at some point. Yes, even Jin, who literally caused World War III.

By your logic, the only valid Mortal Kombat character (that would never happen, but let's assume it does for argument's sake) that would have any realistic chance would be Johnny Cage even though the faces of the franchise are Scorpion and Sub-Zero.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And I'll repeat again why is Heihachi an exception when its been done for some characters in Smash? Hmmm...

It only happens only out of necessity sometimes, depending on whether or not the VA is a big name.

They could have used new recordings for the Grey Fox AT in Japan, yet they didn't. And I don't need to mention Colonel Campbell (whose character is retired entirely).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

By your logic, the only valid Mortal Kombat character (that would never happen, but let's assume it does for argument's sake) that would have any realistic chance would be Johnny Cage even though the faces of the franchise are Scorpion and Sub-Zero.

Speaking of which that's another.

Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. He's the face and mascot of Mortal Kombat and yet...He's not the protagonist, arguably that goes to Liu Kang.

If anything it seems fighting game characters has the best chance of breaking the "Protagonist first" rule as those three shows.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It only happens only out of necessity sometimes, depending on whether or not the VA is a big name.

They could have used new recordings for the Grey Fox AT in Japan, yet they didn't.

It’s also why they didn’t record new codecs - Roy Campbell’s Japanese VO also passed away

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also Sakurai considered on Slime before going with Hero due to being the mascot and not being the protagonist.

Another example.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Speaking of which that's another.

Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. He's the face and mascot of Mortal Kombat and yet...He's not the protagonist, arguably that goes to Liu Kang.

If anything it seems fighting game characters has the best chance of breaking the "Protagonist first" rule as those three shows.

Because "main protagonist" and "beginner-friendly character" are not mutually exclusive in fighting games.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Because "main protagonist" and "beginner-friendly character" are not mutually exclusive in fighting games.

Explain Ryu and Terry who are the protagonists of their games.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

On the plus side, unlike Tekken fans, at least we won't have to wait over two years of bloody speculation just to find out if the series gets anyone playable in Ultimate, let alone whoever's the main guy at the time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Explain Ryu and Terry who are the protagonists of their games.

...I meant to say they weren't mutually inclusive, but goofed up my wording.

Some beginner-friendly characters aren't necessarily protagonists, like Heihachi, or even relevent to the plot in any way, like Scorpion in the PS2 era.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

...I meant to say they weren't mutually inclusive, but goofed up my wording.

Some beginner-friendly characters aren't necessarily protagonists, like Heihachi, or even relevent to the plot in any way, like Scorpion in the PS2 era.

Ah alright, no worries then everyone goofs up once in a while.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As for why a character can be seen as the "face", they tend to be beginner-friendly characters (or relatively easier to pick up in Tekken's case).

They can be antagonists, like Heihachi or Nightmare, or even irrelevent to the plot, like Scorpion most MK games until the new timeline or Terry in literally every single King of Fighters entry.

They're just easily accessible characters for newcomers and it's the big reason why they remain the face even if they aren't protagonist; because it subconsciously tells newcomers who to pick first to learn the basics of the game.

ARMS is a bit weird in that aspect because the gameplay is so simplistic in nature that most of its cast is beginner-friendly. The only reason Spring Man is the "face" is because he's in most of the marketing as well as the boxart.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still hoping for Minmin.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well if we look at other fighting games, the whole Ryu is the icon thing is a lot more fluid than it first seems.

Nakaruru, Heihatchi, Iori, ,Morrigan Nightmare, Scorpion: None of them were originally designated as the main protagonist at first.

Nakaruru and Morrigan both appear over their Ryus in crossover
Heihatchi and Nightmare are main antagonists
Iori and Scorpion were cool rivals
Soul Calibur in particular is a strange case as the game pushes Mitsurigi as the Ryu but he has almost zero plot relevance. Ryu at least has the whole Satosi no Hadou thing going.

ARMS has only had one game so it could go anywhere.

Will they stick to the main character with Spring Man?
Or will they go for the secondary mascot with Ribbon Girl?
Go for the fan favorite with Min Min?
Opt for a character that could work a bit more smoothly with current systems like Twintelle (Bayonetta as a base potentially)?
Go for one who captures the bizzare nature of ARMS like Helix?
Will they go for a character that's similar to the main to keep the Assist Trophy with Spring Tron or Max Brass?
Or will they go for a more mechanically unique character like Dr. Coyle?

They could go full DQ Slime on us and add Biff of course. Nothing is out of the question at this point.

 

[Farbeitfromme]

I guess I'll put in my two cents on who the fighter likely is, as well as how Spirits, Mii Costumes, and Assist Trophies figure in.

I'm fairly confident that at this point that base-game Spirits do not de-confirm. For FP2, which as far as we know was decided after the development of the main game was completed, it seems to me that all the popular characters who were initially Spirits would be back on the table. The developers wouldn't lock themselves out of using the Spirit characters now that they have a chance to make more fighters, especially if they're going to make more first party choices. So Min Min, Ninjara, and Twintelle are from that angle viable choices.

As for the "extendable arms" comment in regards to Twintelle, however, I'm not sure, but feel it hurts her chances. It seems likely that whoever wrote that knows something about the character in order to make such a statement, and if they said arms, they probably don't have Twintelle in mind. I'd say there is a small chance of this not being true, but I'm not holding out much hope for her after hearing that.

As far as Mii Costumes, I feel like they likely don't de-confirm either. We have plenty of Mii Costumes of playable characters, including some of fighters that have been there from the beginning, like Samus and Fox. This suggests that the developers don't see Mii Costumes and fighters as being mutually exclusive in the first place. It is probably true that the Spring Man and Ribbon Girl costumes were added as a recompense for not being included, and in my mind, that puts them in a similar boat as the base-game Spirits. IMO, it wouldn't be any more unlikely that the developers would add a Mii Costume character as a fighter after the fact than it would be for them to add a Spirit character (as such, I feel like Rex is also now a viable choice, but that's another discussion altogether). What's more, it could be argued that the fact that they have costumes of Spring Man and Ribbon Girl bodes well for them, as they're an implicit admission that they're the go-to characters for a fighter. That said, however, I'm personally not sure it will be Spring Man, for reasons I will get to shortly.

The idea of an AT upgrade does give me pause, although I admit I could definitely be wrong in this case. True, there have been AT upgrades, but that was a game later when they had the opportunity to remove the AT. Having base color Spring Man appear in the same stage as the Spring Man AT could be seen as a design flaw, and if Spring Man is the choice, the devs need to figure out what to do. I don't see them doing something as in depth as changing the AT to Springtron, but I suppose removing the AT (probably altogether) could be an option. Of course, all this could be avoided if they chose another character, and in addition to being less complicated, such a move could also be more spicy and original.

Of course, the perception that Spring Man is ARMS' go-to rep would take issue with any other choice, but I nevertheless feel it doesn't mean he's a lock either. If he is the Smash character, that doesn't explain to me why they are building up to the reveal. It seems as though they would just say so if he is the choice, as opposed to showing the whole roster as possibilities at the recent update. They seem to want the leave the question open, and choosing Spring Man alone after getting everyone's hopes up for their favorite seems like a clumsy move. The idea of having Spring Man in addition to skins of other fighters, however, would be something I could see them doing. I'm sure they would enjoy catering to multiple people's hopes by revealing a Hero-esque four part fighter.

So, we have a number of different possibilities, but in my view the most likely choice is either A) a four-way character like Hero including Spring Man, or B) a single fighter other than Spring Man. The question remains, then, who? Well, I personally don't see a better choice objectively than Min Min, the super popular winner of the Party Crash Bash. Ribbon Girl is another possibility, but since Spring Man is the face of the game even over her, I don't see why she is any more likely to be chosen over the other popular characters. I personally would have liked to see Twintelle, but I don't see things going in her favor over Min Min. And I'm fine with that, really-- pretty much any choice would be a win in my book.

So, I'm just holding out to see who it is! Once we know who, we'll have a bit more information regarding what does and does not "de-confirm", and from there, we can begin to speculate regarding the remainder of FP2. Personally, I'm psyched!

 

[amageish]

Well! This thread has been lively today... Here are some assorted thoughts:

I definitely think that, for many people, ARMS is a litmus test to prove whether various "fan rules" are real rules or not. If Spring Man doesn't get in, then I'm sure people will say that confirms AT upgrades impossible. If Spring Man does get in, then I'm sure people will say that Waluigi/Isaac/etc are confirmed if Spring Man does get in. Same with spirits if Ribbon Girl/Min Min/Twintelle/Ninjara is (not) the character. This kind of sucks, as I'd like the ARMS character to be appreciated more for the character itself, but oh well. Speculation's going to speculate.

Personally, my predictions would be, in no particular order:
1) Spring Man + Ribbon Girl + Potentially More Alts.
2) Min Min or Ninjara or Twintelle
3) Helix or Mass Brass or Dr Coyle

Yes, I just listed 8 characters when ARMS has a total of 15 playable characters. I am hedging all of my bets!

I'd be kind of surprised if we got only Spring Man as I don't see them doing the "It's an ARMS fighter! Guess who?" if the reveal is going to be "IT'S THE CHARACTER ON THE FRONT OF THE BOX!". That said, if we do get a canonicity-destroying hybrid character, then I'd be surprised if he and Ribbon Girl don't start off the set. Yes, upgrading an assist trophy would take work, but you also save work with a model to start using as a base, so... Maybe it balances out?

Min Min, Ninjara, and Twintelle are all super popular and I could see them getting in for that reason. Min Min won the popularity contest, so... Yeah, I'd put her as a frontrunner in my mind. Kosuke Yabuki also regularly brings her up as his personal favourite in interviews, though he also gives Spring Man a shout-out most of the time. Twintelle is also very popular too and the developers have regularly commented on their happiness about her positive reception. Yabuki picks her as his favourite when being interviewed alongside Ishikawa (partly because Ishikawa listed both Spring Man and Min Min as favourites before he could, but it's still not nothing). Ninjara was the runner-up in the contest and is someone developers enjoyed and felt confident in making ("We know ninjas"). Same interview also notes that he's especially popular among young men, for whatever that's worth.

That said, those three characters were all popular enough to get spirits. So, if we're assuming spirits deconfirm, then... I'm guessing Mass Brass and Dr Coyle because they have story purpose and Helix just because he's wobbly and fun...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Even if ARMS 2, whenever it happens, has a new mascot that isn't Spring Man/Ribbon Girl, it's peak "everything is related to Smash" thinking to assume that they'd start the transition in Smash. Smash isn't going to change the course of ARMS, Smash is supposed to adapt the games it represents. See Marth's VA as an example, they could have given him an English one but they waited until he had an official one in FE games to do so. If ARMS wants to pivot to another mascot, it'll do so in a future sequel, or at least in ancillary material like comics, but it won't be in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

So what are we supposed to do then? We got around two months left before reveal, and are already in danger of recycling the same topics over and over again like the Ultimate general social thread (heck, even Pokémon's been brought up). At least we haven't degenerated into lewd topics.

In that case we should stop speculation as a whole as that's pretty much the entire point of it.

i was trying to stop everyone from being nasty

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Now that I think about it. It wouldn't honestly surprise me if Nintendo chooses to go with the most popular character especially given some of the newcomers

So either Minmin or Twintelle.

 

[Trevenant]

i was trying to stop everyone from being nasty

It isn't really being nasty it's just for and against stuff which is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't actually derail the discussion or turn hostile.

Now that I think about it. It wouldn't honestly surprise me if Nintendo chooses to go with the most popular character especially given some of the newcomers

So either Minmin or Twintelle.

But they aren't really the same as they actually referenced the ballot then and all those characters aren't really in the same boat as they have established roles of importance or the outright icon or protagonists of their games. ARMS arguably has spring man and ribbon girl as the mascot

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If we aren't supposed to be having debates, then by that logic we should just leave the forum and quietly play our games. Besides, this thread is really tame compared to some I've been to.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

But they aren't really the same as they actually referenced the ballot then and all those characters aren't really in the same boat as they have established roles of importance or the outright icon or protagonists of their games. ARMS arguably has spring man and ribbon girl as the mascot

So should we expect Jin, Siegfried and Liu Kang then for their franchises rep rather then Heihachi, Nightmore and Scorpion since they're the protagonists? Protagonist first rule amIrite?

Also Sakurai considered Slime before going with Hero.