Compilation of New Techniques/Discoveries (Updated 3.17.08)

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Adi

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#1
Remember, if you want me to put any techniques/pictures/guides up on this thread you MUST PM me, I will not be reviewing the thread. Thanks


Right now we are in a crucial moment in Brawl's history, where many of the exploits and physics that will decide the future metagame will be decided. However we lack organization and many of the discoveries are all in their own separate threads. The purpose of this is for a reference for any interested person to check up on the development of the Brawl metagame. I hope to keep this updated, if you have any new discoveries, techniques, or GIFs you would like me to put on the list please PM them to me, thanks!

Table of Contents:

I: Recent Updates
II: General Techniques
III: General Physics
IV: Character Specific Techniques/Physics
V: Pending Confirmation
VI: Debunked Information
VII: Question and Answer
VIII: Interesting Threads



I: Recent Updates:

3/17/08:
- General Techniques: Snap Cancel, Illusion Edgehog, Scraping, Stutter Step, Jump Cancel Throw, DLX Cancel
- Character Specific: Toon Link, Peach, Ike
- General Physics: Tether Recovery has no lag, Tripping - Sweeping
- Misc Thread: Kirk's Ike Guide, NC-Echo's Olimar Guide

2/14/08:
- Unconfirmed: DLX Hit Cancel
- General Techniques: Dair Platform Stall
- Character Specific: Wolf Laser Mechanics
- Debunked: Motor Mouth
- General Techniques: Craq Walk

2/7/08:
- General Techniques: Hugging
- General Physics: Tripping (Invincibility Frames)
- Character Specific: King Dedede (chaingrab diagram), Wolf (Illusion "Waveland"), Peach (Bomber Edgehog)
- Three Questions added to Q&A

2/6/08:
- Added Table of Contents, Check out the new sections
- General Techniques: Variations of Dashing Shield and Glide Toss added
- King Dedede: Chaingrab information, Falco: New Technique, Laser Lock
- Pending Confirmation: Bananza and Land Cancelling
- Question and Answer added to Q&A
- Clarification added to "Grab-Turnaround"
- General Physics: Tripping, more info on Diminishing Damage

2/5/08:
- The Entire Post :D, stay tuned for updates on the development of the competitive scene


II: General Techniques

Hugging

Gimpyfish62 said:
"Hugging" - Special edge hog– "Hugging" seems like its going to be big in brawl. With the lack of a solid wave dash this seems like the best way to edge hog at this point. You simply walk/run/roll/whatever off the edge and press towards the stage after you fall, you grab the edge automatically facing either direction. Its fast and its useful. Pretty cool new technique
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.ph...sh+impressions

Variations/Applications

Snap-Cancel

In order to bypass the auto-ledgesnap feature, if a player merely holds down on the control stick while recovering they will pass by. This has tons of mindgame potential. For example, with Marth you can use this to bypass the ledge and hit your opponent who may be waiting on the edge for you.

Mugwhump said:
Yeah you hold down to not snap, I made a thread about
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142823&page=2

Glide canceling

Dmbrandon said:
People have seen Pit's wing canceling. Too bad that's not useful when you play against characters who are controlled by people. >_> Basically, when you glide, aim towards the ground and attack. The attack that comes out, when landed, will lose all lag frames, and will be able to combo, throw, or whatever you want. :D
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

OoNoiroO said:
To glide, you hold the jump button after your character's second or more jump(assuming the character can glide of course).

You can control the direction of you glide with up or down, but only toward the direction of your glide. If you go up, you will gradually lose speed, but gain altitude. Vice versa for going downward(common sense, right?)

If you direct your glide straight upwards, your glide will cancel. The most downward angle of a glide is around

Any time during the glide, you can press jump to cancel it or A to attack out of it. The gliding A attack is unique and not any of the character's regular aerials.

If your character has a remaining jump after canceling gliding midair, you will be able to do another action after canceling your glide in both ways. This includes using the remaining jump(s). You cannot glide again until you touch the ground EXCEPT for Metaknight, as his up B allows him to glide again.

If your character does not have any remaining jumps after canceling a glide midair, you will enter a falling state.

If you land on the ground while gliding, you will be in a knocked down state.

To avoid this, press jump or A to cancel your glide right before you touch the ground. There will be no landing lag at all.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981

Dashing Shield

I.T.P. said:
Dashing Shield: normal dashes are now cancelable using the shield button, it will result in a character sliding with the dash momentum while shielding.
Variations/Applications

Dashing Shield Grab

Dmbrandon said:
Like jump canceling, if you tap the shield, and grab, the throw makes your character move faster, and the range is increased. EXTREMELY USEFUL.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

I.T.P. said:
Dashing Shield Grab: if you do a dashing shield, you can shield grab out of it by pressing A, and get a Moving grab with the standing grab animation and a very wide hitbox. crucial to DeDeDe's Chain Throw.
Jab Fakes

Dmbrandon said:
Most characters can do this. We know the spacies can't. How it works:
Jab once of twice, and during the last few frames of the second jab, you can shield quickly (Press the button, the shield shouldn't appear) and break it into either another jab, tilt, smash jump, grab or roll. People like Ike, and DeDeDe use this to it's maximum potential.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

Hyphen Smashing

Dmbrandon said:
Almost any character can cancel a dash by hitting up on the c-stick and performing a smash attack. This is proven to come out as fast as Fox's Usmash in Melee while running.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

Grab Turn-Around (No Name Given)

err said:
you can do and immediate grab BEHIND your character when you're in your FULL RUN animation,. and it's simple to do!

0---->(running right) <<--(smash left)+Zbutton
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141979

Zauron said:
Just so you know, the turn around grab has NOTHING to do with Tripping, so you should remove that statement in your compilation thread to prevent more confusion on it.

The whole trip-cancel thing (aka Ink Drop) was just Gimpy's crew not really understanding what was going on in their limited demo play time at E4A. They thought the turn-around grab was a Trip cancel, but it wasn't - it was just a dash into a turn-around grab, which you couldn't do in Melee, so they thought it was related to the random tripping that Inkslinger was doing before.

Fox Trotting and Pivoting (Applications)

OoNoiroO said:
VIDEOS:
(Marth) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8wygkxDyI
(Wolf testing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-tBzYAaGu0

Separate thread:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140723


This is the brawl alternative for dash dancing. You can also smash attack out of a dash.

Fox trotting is using the initial dash movement continuously to move. It is possible in Brawl.

To do so, you must wait till the end of the dashing animation, then dash again.

In Brawl, you can only do this in one direction. To change directions, you must dash dance.

Every character can dash dance, but only with the initial frames of a starting dash. Because fox trotting uses the starting dash continuously, at the beginning of each "trot", you can initiate a dash dance. You can use this dash dance to change the direction of your fox trot fluidly.

You can also cancel the initial frames of a dash(in the range of what you can dash dance) with an Up Smash, Forward Smash(both ways, shown), Forward B(both ways), Down smash, and down tilt. I'm not sure how to get a down tilt though, as it has come out randomly. Quite possibly other normals are cancelable, but the dash dance makes that impossible or extremely very hard.

You can also run one way and immediately dash attack the other way with this.

Possibly the dash dance alternative to brawl?
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981

Another Video (Thanks Niko): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-QHSuyX_UE (Peach)

Reverse Aerial Rush

OoNoiroO said:
VIDEO:
(Utilizing Mario's Bair)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC3W_AxqxSE

Not entirely advanced, but...

Because of the new game mechanics in Brawl, you can run forward, turn around, and jump, making your character keep your forward jumping momentum while facing the other way.

Simply Run forward, then turn around and jump at the same time. Then hold the direction you were running toward.

This feels like a very important technique, as many characters have very good Back aerials, but bad or decent Neutral airs or forward airs.

This was possible in melee, but your momentum was slowed down. Not entirely "advance", but very useful.

GIF examples of jump back toward (video from me, GIFs made by Crispy4001)




Seen in the following GIFs is Toon Link running toward Ganondorf and then approaching him with multiple back airs while still moving toward the enemy.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981

DLX Cancel

DanteLink X said:
Hello. I am a pro Melee player, and I got Brawl a few days ago, I've been looking for tecniques and whatnot, and I found something really interesting and useful. I've called it DLX (DanteLink X) Hit-cancel What is it about? it consists on cancelling certain moves after you land them on your opponent (it can be both, direct hit or shield).

The easiest character to do this is Falco, just do his running kick (press A while running) then the exact same moment it lands on your opponnent, press up+A (can be both, smash or non-smash and it will work, it only does his Upsmash anyways).

It looks really awesome, because its like 2 moves right after the other, if done correctly you will hit your oponent with the running kick then the upsmash in one smooth looking motion. Really useful in combos. (Throw your opponent down, running kick, into DLX-hit-cancel).

Also, a sound will confirm that you did it ok. It takes timing, but after a while you will see its really easy to pull off. Enjoy. I will post video links later.

VIDEO PROOF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4kxLGxfpJw
Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3872453#post3872453

Gliding Toss

I.T.P. said:
Basically, if you're holding an item and you roll forward and press A in the middle, the result will be the character gliding weirdly instead of rolling and throwing the item very quickly in the middle while advancing a considerable distance.

best attempted by Peach's turnips, works for all characters and all items as far as I know.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141858

Videos: - Credit Goes to Niko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7glTOvBD8uQ (Diddy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7sP_pzAggQ (Peach)

Variations/Applications:

Reverse Glide Toss

Niko said:
This is the same technique as the original except you are moving backwards while the tunrip throws forwards. The timing for this is ALOT faster, you have to hold your shield, and jerk the joystick to the left while AMAZINGLY QUICKLY flicking the c stick in the opposite direction.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HbiFZ1P6h0
Air-Dodge into Glide Toss

Niko said:
n order to do this, you must air dodge with your momentum headed downwards and as soon as you hit the ground press shield and do the glide toss in either direction...

Air Dodge into Glide Toss is Confirmed for the Following (based off character projectiles)

Toon Links Bombs
Warios Bike Parts
Zamus Armor
Diddy's Bananas
Peaches Turnips

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTxAhvzBDZk

GIF of Air Dodge into Glide Toss (Thanks Crispy)

Slide Cancel

Niko said:
I just figured this out now and I think it will prove very useful for mindgames. How you do this is you start your slide animation and then TILT the joystick in the other direction asap followed by a smash asap. At first I show you the original slide with no cancel followed by a slide with cancel BUT no smash move.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfPkoykoHYc
Air-Dodge Item Drop

Niko said:
You can drop an item after an air dodge! Simply press dodge and then a or z right after.

Video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ByPwv8XydE
Dair Platform Stall

omegablackmage said:
On a platform, if you begin to fall through and then down air, gw will move up slightly before he shoots down, but this brings him back on to the platform. because this happens early in the key animation, it gets l canceled better then normal. Thus you can VERY quickly bring out keys and keep doing them in succession.
LeeHarris said:
This happens with any dair that sends the character down fast. Zamus, Sheik, Toon Link, etc.
The Craq Walk

iCraq said:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VmxHhy6JJJE (works with more than just Luigi, it works with every character, just watch the whole thing)


This is done simply by using the momentum of running, jumping forward and DIing back, and if you use one extra step as soon as you land, you get the full amount of what I call the CraqWalk. This has about the same amount of distance as a wavedash in Melee, and is a bit slower, but easy to do, and anything can be performed out of it.

The wave land was discovered by Deva (godly Link player) using Marth, starting with a dash, jump forward, backair, and DI forward, allowing Marth to slide forward. It's in the video.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143261

Scraping

Our Savior Marth said:
Ok, scraping also severly needs to be tested, some framerate data would help. In the video you are not simply looking at the auto l-cancel crap, i do show the 3 different speeds that i am saying exist. This would be just shorthopping and doing the aerial, fastfalling the aerial so as to 'auto L-cancel' it and then scraping, which is ONLY ABLE TO BE DONE ON THE LEDGE GUYS. What i am proposing is that "scraping" is more of an A-cancel , as in, animation cancel. If you look at the video, you will see, that when you come up from the ledge with a ledgehop, and then DI against the stage, while coming up with an attack, as in "scraping the level" as shown, then the move coming down will seemingly cancel the remaining animation, even that which will not cancel in L Cancel with just a fast fall, you can try this on your own, you should be seeing a sort of brown smoke stuff from scraping the stage. Try this with loads of characters. With some, they are too floaty to do it apparently, and other moves seem unable to be cancelled, as in the animation. Such as the bair of bowser or loads of wario moves, they dont seem possible to cancel as the landing animation has to come out. YES THE HITBOX IS STILL THERE!

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W11-99UHR0
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148136

Stutter Step

domiNate said:
It has already been discovered that certain characters can stutter step to increase the range of their F-smash. I know that Sonic and Captain Falcon are two that can.

Say your character is facing right. You can stutter step by tapping left on the control stick then quickly pressing c-stick right. This will increase the range of your f-smash to the right.
I did not discover this method.

After messing around I found out you can increase the range of your f-smash even more by using a stutter step. I don't really have a name for it, I wanted to make sure this wasn't known before I looked even dumber for naming an already known move. I'll refer to the move as a double stutter step from now on.

Once again, say your character is facing right. You can double stutter step by dashing right, quickly tap your control stick left (similar to the time of a dash dance I think) and then quickly pressing c-stick right. This will pretty much double the range of your f-smash depending on what character you are.

This move can be very useful for characters like sonic whose f-smash one of his strongest moves. I will play around with this more and fill you guys in if I come up with something along the lines of this. Let me know what you guys think, and if this is already known then my bad.


As of right now, double stutter stepping works with all characters. Some characters (like Kirby) barely move forward with this while others (like Falcon) double the range of their f-smash. Normal stutter stepping only works for a certain amount of characters and actually sends others backwards, shorting their f-smash range. Double Stutter Stepping works with all characters.

(Update) You can actually cancel all character's initial dashes by u-smashing and f-smashing. By canceling the character's initial dash with an f-smash you will increase the range of the f-smash. Double stutter stepping increases the range of a character's initial dash cancelled f-smash even more, but only for certain characters. If normal stutter stepping does not work for a character, double stutter stepping will not increase that character's f-smash range any more than an initial dash cancelled f-smash. So in less words, if a character doesn't get any range out of a stutter step, don't use a double stutter step, just cancel the initial dash with an f-smash.

If anyone notices that double stutter stepping doesn't work for a character, please point it out to me. Thanks.
TwinkleToes said:
There are two kinds of "stutter step" and this is neither. I think you should name this a sliding smash or something since the mechanic that makes it work is much different and the result is different as well.

The two kinds of stutter step smashing are
a)left on the control, right on the c-stick (which you named)
b)right on the control stick, right on the c-stick (discovered by yours truly)

and then we have your discovery (I'll credit it to you because you put me on the track of finding it)
c) lightly tap the control stick right, smash the control stick left, and smash the c-stick right-- all in immediate succession. (smashing the control stick in the first step will result in a dash attack or a stutter step)

To give you an idea on distance between the three things we have here I went to Final destination and used the dark green arrows on the stage that point outward as a guide. I put Sonic's toe to one tip and measured how many times I would have to do a technique to get his body entirely on the other side of the arrow.

a) Takes 3 stutter steps no matter how you do it
b) Takes 2 if you time it right
c) Takes 1

So in other words, your method yields 3xs the distance of what most people on the Sonic forum have been using, and 2xs what I've been using. Of course, the need for each will probably be situational but it's good to add as much to the ol' technique arsenal as possible.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the reason why it is different can be seen in the tapping of the control stick. If you smash the control stick as you do in a stutter step you will see your character dash. If you tap and then smash in the opposite direction you will see your character move forward ever so slightly and then quickly run in the opposite direction. To distill that even further, if you just do the tap you will notice that instead of going into the dash animation, the character just takes a short shuffle forward. I tested what would happen if you just did the tap and the smash and instead of sliding the initial short move forward is the only distance added to the smash.
Illusion Edgehog/Size]

*Note, I didn't put this in Char Specific because a couple of characters can do this.*

fantomkitsune said:
During a botched one however, I found something akin to the peach bomber ledgehog mentioned on page 1. Due to the new 'auto ledge grab' mechanic in the game, from just off center, you can Wolf Illusion and grab the ledge on FD. From what I can tell so far, it's a hell of a lot faster than dashing to the ledge and doing a normal edge-hug.
Jump Cancel Throw

ihatemybrother said:
Its the jump-canceled throw. Before you disregard it as the glide toss, think. You can't roll while dashing, so this is not a glide toss. Diddy makes a noise when he jumps, that noise is heard when I jump-cancel throw. Its great if someone is chasing you and you need to get them off your back. It is also AMAZING to dash-dance into. If you believe me, put it in your sticky. Oh, and it works with all chars and all items as far as I know.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuGdgbrPcbY
III: General Physics

Diminishing Attacks

RyokoYaksa said:
I don't see this being said anywhere BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TOO BUSY MAKING UP "ADVANCED TECHS" WITH ******** NAMES WHILE NOT TESTING BASIC GAME MECHANICS WHILE I CAN MAKE OUT IMPORTANT THINGS BY JUST WATCHING VIDS. *cough*

Anyway, I have observed variable sending power of the same attack in my recent viewing of various match videos, but I'll simply present what I believe to be the most obvious case of this happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD3MikWWxI4 - Watch 0:56.

As a few of us are aware by now, Zelda's sweetspotted kicks are known to KO enemies with their damage meters still below 100%, DI or not. The Zelda player diminished the f-air to 15-16% down from the full 21. Pit's damage was sent to 129 by the kick, which is more than enough for that thing to KO him, right? No! He lived with DI! And other moves I've seen, ground or not, have this effect. I'd go as far to say that ALL attacks in the game are affected.

The case in point is, if you try spamming the same KO move over and over to build up damage, then use it later hoping it will KO, without using other moves to build back the damage of the spammed move, you will suffer greatly. This game now requires you to use other KO moves outside of your frequently used damage builders to KO efficiently.

Remember, these mechanics were present in Smash 64, but the diminishing effect happened a lot slower. You could use the same attack a lot of times before it really showed that it was getting weaker. In Melee, all A attacks only diminished in damage - they did not decrease in sending power. With the same post-hit damage percentage, a particular A attack always had the same sending power, no matter if it did 100% of its total damage or 55% of it. In Melee, many B moves DID decrease in sending power and damage with use, most notably Samus's Charge Shot and Missiles. Almost all projectile based B-moves suffered from this, including weird stuff like Sheik's Vanish. Just a history lesson for you.
Samurai Panda's Insight:
I just realized that if this "spam a move and the knockback decreases" thing is true... then wont this open up an entirely new aspect of comboing to the game? Less knockback = more combos = can combo into other attacks (i.e. the KO ones). This could really be quite deep.

I also thought of something else as I keep watching these videos... This could easily explain why the game lasts until 150%+. In Melee, we could Melee spam our KO attacks until it actually kills them. But in Brawl when people do that, they end up not being able to kill them anymore because of the drastically reduced knockback. This could make the game MUCH faster, and bring the tournaments back up to 4 stock once people learn to save their KO attacks until damage is racked up. Plus, this could transform Brawl into a game of incredible skill, requiring you to master every attack your character has at their disposal in order to deal damage without spamming their best attacks.

Wow. When you combine the possiblity of comboing better by purposefully doing this on weaker attacks and "saving" your KO attacks until you can kill them... Assuming this is true... Ryoko, you may have discovered the most important aspect of Brawl so far. To the extent that it'll change how Brawl itself is played.

This is by FAR the most important thread on the boards right now. Why isn't it like 20 pages already? We need some people with Brawl to run tests and see if this is real, and if so, how drastic the knockback reduction is.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141977

Data:
mugwhump said:
OK guys I made science, here are my results:

-An attack's power decreases on a curve after each successive use, first dropping sharply, then slowly bottoming out to a bit less than half the attack's max power after about 8 uses. You recharge your moves by using different attacks. It doesn't matter if you spam 1 attack, it will still recharge your other previously used attacks.

-Attacks that are bottomed out will recharge faster than attacks near max power. For example, if you use attack A for the first time, then a different attack, then A again, the second A will be weaker. However, if you weaken attack A to its minimum power, then use a different attack, then A again, the second A will be a bit stronger.

-The game remembers a lot of your attacks. I'm not sure if there's a threshold for the number of other moves you need to do before it forgets about a worn out attack and resets it (I know it remembers at least 12). I mean, I did 23% with Ike's Fsmash, did 8 other attacks, and my next Fsmash did 21%. It seems a max power attack will maintain its power with about 10 other attacks between each use, though.

-When you die, your power levels get reset. Zelda/PT can also reset their power through switching(!). Your power levels are not increased by waiting, attacking thin air, attacking someone who is blocking, getting attacked yourself, or switching your attacks to someone else (thus, attacking marth then sheik then marth with one attack will weaken it just as much as using it on marth 3 times).

-All attacks refresh other attacks equally. If you weaken attack X through repeated use, 10 weak jabs will recharge it just as much as 10 fully charged smashes. Different hits of A combos count as seperate attacks, as do seperate throws and throw punches(!). However, repeated hits of infinite punches (like sheik, fox, etc) and drill attacks (mario's Dair) do not count as seperate. Projectiles are weird, too: only the first needle in Sheik's needle storm counts.

-Attacking someone who's countering doesn't count. It counts for the counterer, though, so each successive counter will be weaker, regardless of the attack they're countering.

-Attacking an object DOES count. For example, attacking wario's bike, any destructible things like the walls in MGS land or Luigi's mansion, etc.

-There's a tiny bit of randomization in the damages

- damage doesn't decrease in training mode. This confused me for a while.

I'm just assuming knockback is proportional to damage here, as damage was a lot easier to measure. I used Ike for my tests, and I reset him (killed him) at each line break.

nuuuuuumbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

dt=downtilt, fs=fsmash, na=nair etc

fs23, 19, 18, 16, 15, 13, 12, 11, 11, 10, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10...

dt14, 13, 11, 10, 10, 8, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 6, 6, 7, 6, 6, 7, 6, 7

Full charge B 38, 34, 29, 27, 25, 22, 20, 19, 17, 17, 18, grab punchx20, charge B 38, gpx10, cB 36, gpx15, cB39

Dtilt:14 Ftilt:16 Fsmash:23 Dsmash:14
dt13 ft13 fs21 ds12
dt12 ft14 fs19 ds12 <-went through this cycle twice more but the numbers bottomed out here

dt14, ft16, fs23, ds14, ut12, na10
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut12, na8
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na8
dt14, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na9
dt13, ft14, fs21, ds12, ut11, na8

dt14, ft16, 13, 13, 11, 9
dt13, ft10, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8
dt13, ft9, 9, 8, 8, 8, 7, 8, dt13, ft9, dt13, ft9, dt12, ft11, dt11, ft11, dt10, ft12, dt10, ft12, dt10, ft12, dt10

fs23, ft15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8
fs21, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, ft8, 8, 9, 8, 7, 8, 7
fs22, 19, 18, ft11, fs16, ft10, 11, fs16, ft12, 10, fs16

fs23, ftx9, fs23

AAA combo 4/5/7, 3/5/6, 3/4/6, 3/4/6
spam first hit till it only does 2 or 1 %
AAA combo 1/6/7

Good stuff good stuff.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141977

Tripping

Randomness
Zauron said:
Now we know though that the trip is unrelated, it can NOT be cancelled into anything, you just trip and then have to roll back up again. It is also now proven to be 100% random whenever you start a Dash in the most recent thread on it. Only thing not known now is what affects the random chance, but it is definitely random.

I've tested tripping and the reverse grab extensively on my copy - they are definitely completely unrelated. Doing the reverse grab motion without the grab does not make you trip, and if you do trip, you can't cancel it into a grab.
Invincibility Frames
Hitaku said:
So, new news for all of you regarding the invincibility frames on the trip. Now before I go into detail, I apologize for how vague this is going to be...but I'm really not sure how I can get better results on something so dang random.

The trip does indeed provide the character with some invincibility frames. I can't tell you the number because sadly I don't know how to get that kind of information. If I had to guess, I would say that it lasts the entire fall, right until you land on your butt. What this means as far as I can tell is that assuming you could react fast enough and you rolled out of it right away, you could stop yourself from being punished for the most part.

This test was done on Final Destination using Fox and Ike. I had fox stand in the corner and spam lasers at Ike, while Ike run around the stage dash dancing. When he tripped he temporarily stopped taking laser damage.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140600&page=10

Sweeping

Our Savior Marth said:
sweeping refers to the fact that apparently in brawl there are moves that are very likely and maybe guaranteed at certain percentages against certain characters to have tripping properties. This was seemingly first stated by synikal a few weeks back. It seems that it is either slightly based on radomness or a very complicated system. The reason i say its complicated is because we tested the same move, i.e. lucas's downtilt against several different characters at the same percentages and were left with differing results. Ok, so, if you dont know what you're seeing, it means you havent played brawl, so i'll explain, this isn't tripping as so many people have thought, this is you actually falling on your ***, and then having to get up, moves that pop the characters upward will never do this.

SO PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY KNOW MOVES THAT WOULD DO IT ARE WRONG, ITS NOT EVER DOWN TILT, THERE ARE ALSO AERIALS AND B MOVES THAT DO IT!!!!

we havent tested many characters with it, but moves we know will do it are

Luigi's dtilt

lucas dtilt

jiggly dair - yes, down air

so go out and test this doods, it could be really good as it can lead into tech chases, grabs, or smashes

and yes, different characters fall at different percentages, it may be based on weight or something

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBltiUJmdg
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148136

No Lag On Tether Recovery

HugS said:
Tether Recovery = No lag.
I read through the entire first post and found no mention of this.

When you up B or jump towards the ledge you must wait sometime before being able to jump off of this ledge. This lag time usually lasts as long as your invincibility does. However, there is a way around it for some characters.

Basically, when you grapple, hook, tether, whatever, you can reel in and grab the ledge. Once you do this you can jump off the ledge immediately similar to the way you could in Melee.
This means you will keep your invincibility. The usefulness of this technique can't be compared to melee yet because this is a much "floatier" game. Either way, your options are increased.

The following is a video of Silven's samus where he does both the grapple and up B recovery.
The time differences to jump off the ledge are very clear.

1:45 - 1:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my7TmBFB6CA

Again, if this has been mentioned already I apologize.
Other Gameplay Changes

OoNoiRoO said:
- No one can DJC
- Analog Shielding is out(Must press L/R all the way down)
- JC grabs are out
- Dash dance is very very small (GIF Below)
- L-canceling out
- CCing out (video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyHqbpfJ7lY)
- Peach cannot float cancel
- Tripping seems entirely random (when initiating a dash)
- You cannot cancel your dash with crouch
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981


GIF of Dashdancing (Thanks Crispy)

IV: Character Specific Techniques/Physics

Remember, the best place to check for character specific strategies/techs is their respective forums, this just covers some important techs.

Falco

Short Hop Laser

OoNoiroO said:
VIDEO:
(FALCO[obviously]) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZqxOGlNErg

Falco's SHL in Brawl. You must delay it or both lasers will go overhead(second one hits ganondorf in the forehead).

Oh, also an important note, you cannot influence your aerial direction nor fastfall while shooting lasers.
*Just a note, along with SHL, LHDL or Ledge Hop Double Laser also makes a return in Brawl.

Laser-lock

Hitaku said:
In have posted this in the Falco thread, but I also think it needs to be here.
The other night I was messing around with my friend and he was playing as Snake. I found something that I am calling the Laser Lock (call it what you will, this is what I am choosing to call it). When any character falls down onto his stomach after being knocked down, if Falco is spamming his laser the character will be locked and unable to move until he is eventually knocked off the ledge (unless something comes in between them). Note that this can only be done on a flat surface because the character needs to stay in position.

I have tested this against Snake, Sonic, Sheik, Ike, and Jigglypuff so far. I believe this works on every character in the game. Yes I understand that this is situational, but it's still very useful. Once in this lock you can't break out until something interrupts the flow of lasers (cannot DI out of it).

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981&page=30

Fox

Infinite Shine (?)

Percon said:
On a stage with a wall, fox can infinite shine by just spamming it, no cancel required.

Discuss

BTW Its just done by tapping b while holding down

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNrzSVih5DY
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141202

Game and Watch

Up-Air Stall

Zauron said:
G&W's UAir move looks the same in Melee, but now, anyone above him that's too far away to get hit with the actual attack is actually blown upwards by a strong wind force. I used this to stop Link and Sonic's DAir's even - they dive down quickly, but I used the UAir and they were blown back up into the air. Another time, I was able to keep Jiggly Puff from EVER landing when she was in a free-fall state, I could just stall her by blowing her back in the air forever.
Ice Climbers

Desynching

OoNoiroO said:
VIDEO:
(Ice Climbers desync) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsmjtD9E2gg

Desyncing with ICs in Brawl. Simply dash dance back and forth once, then do an action. Nana should be recovering from a dash as you do an attack. Then you should be desynced.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140981

[/u]Ike[/u]

Ike Tips and Tricks

Quick-Approach[/u]

Kirk said:
Quick Approach: --Quick Draw can be used for some fast approaches. This is the main use of it when conducting the ‘Grand Viper.’ All you do is time and space your Quick Draw so that it falls just short of your opponent and doesn’t hit them. With this, you get no lag from your attack and can follow up with any other attack. What I find most useful is following with his Ground Neutral A Combo, as it is the fastest of his attacks. Another useful attack to combo into is the Up Tilt. That’s right. The Grand Viper! This can be useful to get someone quickly into the air and lead into some possible juggle combos. Grabbing is also an option. If your opponent gets into the habit of shielding your follow up attacks you can switch over to a grab instead. There’s many possibilities with this technique, and that’s what make Quick Draw such a good and versatile attack.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143306

Quick-Draw Hog

Kirk said:
Quick Draw Hog: **Updated** -- Changing this whole section. Found a MUCH easier and MUCH safer way to accomplish this. Basically, just Quick Draw to the edge of the stage so the stage stops your forward progress. After the QD, hold the control stick away from the stage, and you will fall off the edge. Once you do, just hold the control towards the stage and you'll grab on! It takes a few tries to get the timing down, but overall it's not that hard to accomplish. This can make for a surprise edge hog that your opponent may not see coming. It's gotten me a few K.O.'s already, and it's a very useful technique.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143306

Quick-Draw Edge Stall

Kirk said:
Quick Draw Edge Stall: --While hanging on the ledge, you can drop away or by pressing the opposite direction on the control stick or drop down by tapping down on the control stick, jump, then charge Quick Draw for a moment and release it to grab back onto the ledge. This is more of a mindgame then anything else. Instead of waiting on the charge, you can release it immediately and you can Quick Draw back onto the stage. Mix it up like that to keep your opponent guessing. Don’t do it for too long, as it can leave you open for attack.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143306

Aether Hogging

Kirk said:
Aether Hogging: --This entails grabbing the edge with Aether, ledge canceling the attack if you will. This can remove the lag from the ending attack, and has other uses for it, which will be explained later. Just be careful about the spacing. Holding toward the edge on the way down is a must to grab the ledge. No one likes a suicide!
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143306

Ledge Hopped Aethers

Kirk said:
Ledge Hopped Aethers: --If you feel pressured on the ledge, just drop down and use another Aether to keep them at bay! It’s a simple and incredibly useful technique to use. Just keep doing it until they back off. Then you can safely get back on the stage.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143306

King Dedede

Chaingrab

Dedede is one of the few characters (for the moment) in Brawl who has the ability to chaingrab characters. In order to do so, simply grab the opponent, down throw, and follow him with a Dashing Shield Grab (Thanks I.T.P). If you do not use a Dashing Shield Grab the opponent will be able to escape with ease.

I.T.P. said:
basically it's like this

DDD grabs Opponent
=================OD=========

DDD throws opponent, throw advances you by a bit.
============O===D===========

and now, when you start chasing, it's either

opponent rolls towards DDD and gets grabbed.
===============OD===========

opponent stays and gets dashing shield grabbed
============OD==============

opponent rolls backwards and gets dashing shield grabbed from a prolonged dash
========OD==================
Escaping:
I.T.P. said:
also, Escaping from DeDeDe's chainthrow is basically rolling left or right, but doing either can be forseen by the DDD player and you can still grab the opponent.
Lucario

"SHFFL"

MookieRah said:
THIS JUST IN, Buzz claims that Lucario can SHFFL! Because Lucario's dair stops all vertical momentum, one can use it to pound on shields and land with absolutely no lag. Here is an excerpt from our AIM convo:

Buzz: Suddenly it dawned on me: the momentum block would be ideal for ASCENDING.
MookieRah: dangz
Buzz: So, I started dashing at people, jumping, and doing the down-air a nanometer off the ground.
MookieRah: holy crap man, Lucario is top tier
Buzz: Since he doesn't fall during that time, he does the double kick seeming ON the ground...
MookieRah: It's like he has float canceling!
Buzz: And when he lands, virtually no lag. :D
Buzz: It is effective enough for three things.
Buzz: (1) - Opponents cannot shield grab it if you do this right.
Buzz: (2) - If Lucario shields an opponent attacking from behind, this "SHFFL" is fast enough to activate and punish that attacks. You just jump backwards to line up and do the down-air.
Buzz: (3) - It is just a great approach that makes Lucario fast.
Buzz: The beauty of all this is that the down-air is STRONG.
Buzz: It's not smash attack strong, but it is VERY good and CAN be a finisher at the right time.

So basically Lucario can jump and immediately dair and then land with no lag. It's sick people. Real sick.

Buzz also mentioned that Lucario's hitboxes are not just deceptively good, as they are also deceptively bad. In other words, sometimes things that look like they would hit don't. In his words "Lucario is tricky."
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140957

MookieRah said:
Apparently Lucario only gets STRONGER as he takes more damage. This coupled with his decent weight and overall good recovery means that you can truly wreck your opponent at massive percents. This is absolutely insane against characters that have a hard time landing KOs like Meta, Diddy, Sonic, and etc. My guess is that cause of this plus his other inherent strengths Lucario will counter these speedy characters.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140957

Lucas

PK Waveland

During PK Fire Lucas is slightly knocked back, in such a way that if placed close to the ground, the result would be similar to one wavelanding, and the PK Fire is released as well. This could become a useful spacing and mindgame technique for Lucas. This is displayed in the following video at 1:33 (Thanks Percon).

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNrzSVih5DY

Marth

IASA Frames on D-tilt

Emblem Lord said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmIkv9S0nwc

Marth still has his IASA frames on his d-tilt just by looking at this video.

Here is an explanantion of IASA frames by The Great Leon in another thread. It's copied and pasted.

Quote:
Interruptable As Soon As
basically you cancel some of an attack's lag with another action, like jumping, shielding, or attacking. in melee, marth's DTilt was 40 frames long and was IASA after 20 frames (iirc). So after 20 frames you could do something else, like a FSmash.
This means he can safely attack on the ground. If he gets a hit then just chase them. If he misses then cancel the lag with a dash or a roll.

This is Marth's game now.

Bow down before the Lord of Brawl.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141232

Peach

Bomber Edge-Cancel to Sweetspot

In this video response to my Bomber Mindgame, I figure out a way to perfectly space the peach bomber to sweetspot the ledge bombing from the stage.

To do this you press Over B in the direction of the ledge inbetween the V Shapes...AS SOON AS you press over b, jerk and hold the joystick in the opposite direction, you should notice peach withdraw before boming and if spaced correctly you will sweetspot the edge.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqL_h12v3Gs
Fair at the Edge

Niko said:
This is a new lure type of mindgame I thought of and Im uploading to show the community for criticsm. Not taking credit if already thought of.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHt3VIJBh-E
Psuedo-Wavedash

Dark.Pch said:
The first then I found out that Peach has somewhat of a wavedash. kinda. Her Second jump does not really send here anywhere. She kinda stays in place. So I While Jumping I air dodge ether down left or down right. She slighty moves in that direction and faces in that direction too. and she shield sightly comes up. So you run and then soon as you sump, Hit L-or R and aim for the stage. she stops nearly dead in her tracks.
Variation:
Dark.Pch said:
another thing I found out I is that you can use her second jump for a quick stop and move in a direction you want. I think she slides a lil too. All you do is Jump, then tap the button again really quick and aim in the spot you wanna move. I guess it can be somewhat Double jump cancel but not really cause her Second jump has no height.. So when you use her second Jump you stay in place so tap it fast and then aim the stick in the direction you wanna move.
Pillar

Dark.Pch said:
Last thing I found out is that Peach can somewhat pillar. You Instant float, Nair and land and repeat. Her N-air does not have much lag. and you can pillar like fight on the floor like if you was standing since her second jump really does nothing. So not to be close to the floor you have to time your first then instand float to a Nair, land and repeat. But if you Instant float right while you are on the floor and Pillar its alot more faster.
Pit

Wing Cancel

Blue Shell said:
While screwing around trying to find new ATs yesterday night at my friend Justin's house(brawl owener), we found something very spammable for Pit.

We called it the Wing Cancel because it's very similar looking to Peach's FloatCancel:

Jump, and as soon as you leave the ground(like a wavedash): UpB, Then quickly do any aerial and fastfall.

What will end up happening is that Pit will shoot just slightly into the air and the aerial will cancel out the UpB in a way that you could literally "Wing Cancel"
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141451

R.O.B.

Psuedo Wing Canceling

dmbrandon said:
During ROBs ^b, as long as you hold it, you're still able to attack via the A button.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

Samus

Missile Canceling

dmbrandon said:
Missile Canceling is still in
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141501

Snake

Interruptible Recovery

LeeHarris said:
We also came across a new trick/technique/discovery. If you perform a grab on Snake's helicopter while he is recovering he will fall and he will not be able to recover again (video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf-E5bTpxOY). That's right, you heard it here first!
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140614

Toon Link

DAF (Down Air Float]

Nitesever said:
Toon Link has a "glitch" that allows you to float midair after accumulating upward momentum and pressing down A in the middle of the flight. My friends have been calling daff, for down air float flight, but it hasn't been officially named as of yet.

Daff is usable directly after a jump if performed correctly, allowing for great recovery capabilities if an additional jump is available after getting knocked off a stage. Sorry for the confusion.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnRmDoJm0VI
Bow Cancelling

TogaBoy said:
View the tutorial here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcODP-_bhrI

The quickdraw is essentially a cancelled "bow draw" animation, making Link's and TL's arrow shot animation faster (i.e. the arrow comes out quicker).

To achieve this, just shoot the bow and arrow just before hitting the ground. In this video, I show several scenarios where this simple technique can be used.

I was not the first to discover this technique, I am just putting together this tutorial. I hope the name (quickdraw) is suitable.



For some gameplay see some MellowD matches:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mUyrtFSq2HI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5hfIzYRY_hU&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MA9s7Vuk2Hk&feature=related
Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153528

Wolf

Illusion "Waveland"

Vegeta214 said:
Wolf's Illusion (side-b) is cancellable similar to Fox/ Falco's. So far I've done 3 different lengths. Normal distance, medium and short. Medium is just a shorter version with a kind of waveland after it. The shortest version is basically a hop followed by a waveland.

I guess this could serve as a mindgame and alternate recovery method.

Edit: Its not an actual waveland like in Melee, just the animation. You can't move until the animation is over.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3856786#post3856786

Wolf Laser Mechanics

Vegeta214 said:
The animation of Wolf jerking out his gun has a hitbox of its own and does damage (there's a bayonet on his gun). On both light and heavy characters it knocks them back and they get hit by the laser while in the air for up to 10% damage altogether. (The laser does 5% damage on its own)

It's rather situational and seems unpractical at first glance. May be useful in the future though.
V: Pending Confirmation


Bananza

Jaydo said:
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but today I discovered a pretty epic cheese with diddy, (BANANZA!!!)

Pre-planting a banana on the opposite of an opponent (from your position) close enough to them to be dangerous for them to move back, with another banana already in hand you can forward dash cartwheel and banana throw, pickup the planted banana and repeat the process over atleast 5 times. I was able to spam this with (so far) no possibility of recovery on quite a few characters from 0-90%.

And of course it's extremely easy to end this with a forward smash for the KO.
Land Cancelling

ZodiakLucien said:
I found out a way to almost waveland down on platforms and on the ground. Its most effective with link. But its also really good with ike. I have only really tested this on lylat cruise, and I assume it works with other stages. if you are low enough to the ground and you do an aerial (usually dair)you go to the ground faster. Its most noticable with link's dair. if you jump from below a platform and dair you immediately appear standing on the platform with no lag. With link the timing is anywhere between his hip and his shin is in the platform to dair. With ike its more precise. This also works with just the ground.

I'll see if I can get a video up of it soon. I guess it can be called land cancelling since you are essentially cancelling you landing animation. I guess it can be called aerial cancel. I dont care what its called honestly.

video http://youtube.com/watch?v=00mZhZldihM

VI: Debunked Information

Air-Momentum Cancel

An air momentum cancel is a technique that will be sure to become widely used in surviving. How it is done is that after you are hit by an attack that sends you flying, if you smash DI and airdodge you can reduce your knockback by a considerable amount. This is showcased in the following video around at 1:08 (Thanks Percon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNrzSVih5DY

Debunked by:

OoNoiroO said:
That was disproved by the topic creator and myself. Ike's Fsmash is weaker due to using it 3 times in a row. I have tested this myself. Try it in training mode where the Fsmash's power and damage won't get lowered and you will always get the same results.
Motor Mouth

NintendoFan963 said:
Apparently, by eating items, the charge of Wario's vB increases. As I've noticed from live streams, Wario is able to eat his bike whole. This gave me the idea for Wario players to quickly get on and off the bike, then continue by eating the bike, increasing his waft at greater speeds.
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141922

Gimpyfish62 said:
it charges regularly, there isn't any proof that eating stuff powers it up as far as i'm aware

VII: Question and Answer

Question:
Yo'ster said:
I had a quick question for anyone that has been playing Brawl. I recall reading in the Dojo that all characters could go from the stage to the edge very quickly, somewhat like Yoshi's instant edge grab. However, I heard someone say that the other characters didn't have this ability in Brawl. How fast can most characters grab on to the edge from standing above it?
Answer:
bornfidelity.com said:
you can just walk off. now if i had brawl here I'd try out at once if this could be done from a dash, using somesort of dashcancel or the shielddash or sth, but I don't have it here.

here's the basic thing/look at this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=NE9L5EXFK18 it's at the very end, the last stock.
Question:
Witchking_of_Angmar said:
Can you still dash attack cancel or "boost grab" (it was called both names) like in melee?
Question:
Witchking_of_Angmar said:
Are reverse neutral b moves still in?
Answer:
Gimpyfish62 said:
reverse neutral b moves are in yes
Question:
I.T.P. said:
can anyone verify whether yoshi can do a dashing shield or not? his egg shield might not allow it.
VIII: Interesting Threads

Video Thread!

Brawl Impressions:
Wifi Wars' Brawl Impressions/Videos
Synikal's Brawl Impressions
Myztek's Brawl Impressions

Character Impressions:
Montage's Character Ratings
WGWolverine's Bowser Guide/Impressions
Reaver197's Captain Falcon Impressions
Changes To Falco
OmegaBlackMage's Game and Watch Impressions
Speedsk8er's Ice Climber Impressions
Kirk's Ike Guide
DKPunch's King Dedede Impressions
Wiwiwebs' Kirby Impressions
Egruntz's Link Impressions
Mookie's Lucario Impressions
Serpit's Lucas Impressions
Irow's Marth Q&A
Timmy's Metaknight Impressions/Guide
Ademisk's Ness Impressions
(Multiple) Peach Impressions
Tommy's Pikachu Impressions
NC-Echo's Olimar Guide
EPF's Pit Q&A
(Multiple) Pokemon Trainer Impressions
Silven's Samus Impressions
Yes' Snake Impressions
FightingGameGuy's Sonic Impressions
Launchpad's Yoshi Impressions
RyokoYaksa's Zelda Impressions
Kro's Zero Suit Samus Impressions

Misc.
The Melee Player's Transition To Brawl
Montage's Proposed List of Stage Bans
Is Tripping Random?
High Gravity Mode -- Viable For Tournies?
Interesting DI Question
Victory Poses For Certain Matchups
 
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#2
Check out the MookieRah's Lucario thread because there are a few Lucario specific techs that are exclusive to him.
 

Dark Sonic

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#3

Takeshi245

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#6
Good job, Adi. To think this game only came out a couple days ago in Japan and we're still finding out new things to test out. With all the new information I've learned, it's just increased my interest to play Brawl even more now.
 

Adi

Smash Lord
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#7
Added the stuff you guys requested + added a new section named "Interesting Threads" at the bottom, thanks for your support ^_^.
 

-Aether

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#8
It's nice to see all of this information compiled in a managable thread. So many clone threads are created because the massive amount of information flowing into SWF is borderline daunting.
 

Zauron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
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#9
Maybe mention the unique properties of G&W's UAir? Adds a whole new element to his meta game.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140951

Also, just so you know, the reverse grab (grab turn-around) has NOTHING to do with Tripping. The whole trip-cancel thing (aka Ink Drop) was just Gimpy's crew not really understanding what was going on in their limited demo play time. They thought the reverse grab was a Trip cancel, but it wasn't - it was just a dash into a reverse grab. The Trip is unrelated, it can NOT be cancelled into anything, you just trip and then have to roll back up again. It is also now proven to be 100% random whenever you start a Dash. Only thing not known now is what effects the random chance, but it is definitely random - read up on the thread about it.
 

Psymon

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502
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#10
That wolf/snake match kinda shows snake going down a few tiers, if his main recovery can be easily exploited, he's not gonna be able to win unless he keeps his feet on the ground =S. Psy.
 

Sonovin

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Sonovin
#11
How about naming the grab-turn around.. the back grab?

I dunno, just a suggestion.

=]
 

Adi

Smash Lord
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Messages
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#12
Well whatever wins the popular vote will be the deciding factor in naming it I guess. It's done for now, just have to add a few of the char impressions up, anything I missed?
 

Help!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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#13
About Lucario getting stronger as he takes more dmg, is that for sure? becuase it could be that new game mechanic lessening the dmg and knockback so maybe he just "recharged" his moves at some point when he was at a higher percentage.
 

D.A.N.

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#16
It sure seems like it is worthy of or could be stickied. Very good job putting all the stuff we know together in one thread.
 

DragonBlade

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Messages
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#18
Sigh, do you realize what this means? All of these will be gone by US release, and the later Japanese discs will probably be patched too. This is exactly what happened to lag canceling from the demo. I guess we'll all have to mod our Wii and play the initial releases now...
 
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#22
Definitely deserves the sticky. Great work!

Should Marth's IASA frames for his D-tilt be considered an advanced technique? Otherwise we'll have to put up the IASA for everyone's moves.
 

/~Dogma~\

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#23
no its not really an AT but something very useful...i guess its an AT u could master it within a min.....
wasnt marth the only one with IASA...maybe ike will have some
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,201
#25
well looks like i can take this off favorites now

ill be constantly checking this for AT's that will help IKE thxs again for making this
 

Adi

Smash Lord
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#26
Definitely deserves the sticky. Great work!

Should Marth's IASA frames for his D-tilt be considered an advanced technique? Otherwise we'll have to put up the IASA for everyone's moves.
Well, it's a very important feature for Marth, and yes, I will probably include more IASA notes under character specific discoveries if they prove to be important.

@Blue Shell: I'll edit it in a sec.
 

Zauron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
445
Location
Bothell, WA
#30
About Lucario getting stronger as he takes more dmg, is that for sure? becuase it could be that new game mechanic lessening the dmg and knockback so maybe he just "recharged" his moves at some point when he was at a higher percentage.
Yes it is definitely sure. Its been extensively tested, but if you have a copy try this for yourself:

Start Training Mode with the CPU as Lucario. Set the CPU to player controlled and 0 damage. Have Lucario do any attack on the player, and note the damage done and amount the player moved from the attack.

Restart Training Mode with the CPU as Lucario again. Set the CPU to player controlled and 200 damage. Have Lucario do the same attack on the player as the previous test, and note the damage done and amount the player moved from the attack.

The second time, the player hit by the attack will move further and take more damage from the attack. Since the mode was restarted for each test and no previous moves were executed, the damage-for-spamming feature could not have interfered with the test.

This is what we did to verify this.

Also, as a side note - Lucario's Nuetral B is an energy ball. The energy ball's size is different based on Lucario's damage. Set the CPU to 0 damage and charge an energy ball to full size. Now fire the shot, set the CPU to 200 damage and charge an energy ball again. It will be about double sized. Nothing else effects the max size other than the damage amount of the Lucario character.
 

Zauron

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
445
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#33
Many of these don't have the source listed. I wanted to see the source of the Slide Cancel for example, because the explanation wasn't very clear to me (even with the video, I didn't get exactly how he was doing it) and I was hoping it was clarified elsewhere in the same thread.
 

Adi

Smash Lord
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#34
That's because I wasn't given a source and all I had was the video linked by a friend. If you could find a thread with the information presented I would be grateful.
 

mugwhump

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
382
#35
Fantastic thread, just what we needed!

Also, you should add edge poopin', which is just holding the stick downwards to cancel the auto-edgegrab. I know it's not really an "advanced technique," but it's pretty useful, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.

And you don't have to call it edge poopin' if you don't want to ._.


Sigh, do you realize what this means? All of these will be gone by US release, and the later Japanese discs will probably be patched too. This is exactly what happened to lag canceling from the demo. I guess we'll all have to mod our Wii and play the initial releases now...
No, they won't. Don't worry.
 
Joined
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#37
Nice Job, Adi. My Request finally came through.

It is pretty clueless for me when I just got back from classes and etc to see many advance tech. :psycho:
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,201
#39
ADI

air cancel momentum will be widly used and that demonsrtation proves its the best way to survive.....now combine that with some decent wiggling.......OMG
 
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