Competitive Fighting Games

[SæQuo010]

*looks into the future*

lol, **** that! i decline my right respond to the above statement

That is so smart of you sir!!!!! What finch is trying to say is so lost that if you respond you are only helping him to find his way out of the rabbit hole. (Stay down there pooh!!!!)


Play mvc2 because it is crack and sent/cyke can have any point chara and do just fine. Heck you could barrel down and learn some simple **** with storm/drones and that dhc alone will keep in tourneys in florida.

Play guility gear because it is so broken and all people are good and some are just to fun on a 2d plane that it should not be allowed in the states!! Pick up jhonny, anji, test(s-tier baby), baiken, dizzy, ino and chip and last oh yessssssssssss eddie!!!!!!! As you can see the game is fun and if you try those people in that order and you should be able to understand the game great!!

As someone else has already said, I think cvs2 is dying now but it may still be hot for the next 2 or so years. Fvck 3s because I hate ken and his auto win six button setup!!!!!! Nah but 3s is ok at best now,(just my opinion) There are cool people to play with and the top four are fun to mess around with but the scene is alot like smash because the american 3s scene has taken it down a couple of pegs as to what is good in 3s. Real 3s is not rock, paper, scissors. A small part of it is but to say that the whole game comes down to poke beats throw, throw beats parry, parry beats poke, is to say that when you want to (smashe term) mind game someone those are your only choices/best choices. Makes you own decision about 3s but also watch the SBO last year(americans best year for 3s) and we went 3 and out. The game is so much more than rock, paper, scissors, and our last 4 years at SBO show that!!!!!

JoJo's Bizzare Adventure!!!!!! Play it and love it!!!! NO scene for it tho!!!

UMMMmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMmMmmMMMmMMMmmMMMMmmMMMmmmm

Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 still get good turn outs and the high level play is great because of Japan(of course) and GGPO and Killeria.

And download samuri showdown 2 on vc for wii!! Once again no scene and game is mad old but hey if you can think that SHFFL is the same as doing snk style supers then the gates of hades can open and cham cham can come out with her helper monkey and throw sculls and spit fire and do breakin' type moves!!!!!!!!!

CHAM CHAM WINS..................................................... WADDLE WADDLE WOO WHO

 

[Finch]

man I was so lost when I made that post. clearly I was saying that jumping and doing an attack then landing in smash is the same thing as doing a super in a 2d fighting game, and not that the button inputs required for, say, doing a double fair combo with marth or waveshining are similar to some of the button inputs required for executing a super in a 2d fighter.

</sarcasm> in case you didn't get it

The only thing I can think of to compare supers to in smash is jigglypuff's rest. the game mechanics for traditional fighters are obviously very different, but that doesn't mean they'll be easier or take less time to get into than the technical aspects of melee.

 

[BearsAreScary]

Guilty Gear is the best fighting game ever made.

You can argue for days over whether 3S is better than SC4 (although SC2 is clearly the best one....) or whether Brawl is a more competitive fighter than CvS2 or blah blah blah

But at the end of the day, there is but one king. Do not forget.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

And, at the end of the day, it's all opinion.

Like christianity and religion in general.

No fact anywhere to be found.

 

[SæQuo010]

man I was so lost when I made that post. clearly I was saying that jumping and doing an attack then landing in smash is the same thing as doing a super in a 2d fighting game, and not that the button inputs required for, say, doing a double fair combo with marth or waveshining are similar to some of the button inputs required for executing a super in a 2d fighter.

</sarcasm> in case you didn't get it

The only thing I can think of to compare supers to in smash is jigglypuff's rest. the game mechanics for traditional fighters are obviously very different, but that doesn't mean they'll be easier or take less time to get into than the technical aspects of melee.

finch do me a favor and name 7 snk fighters!!

Then name 2 that you would play!!!

For anyone that plays fighters they know that this is not a hard question to answer.

Finch your sarcasm is not lost but you are is all I am saying. Answer the question and show me that you have any clue what you are tlaking about.

and by the way marht=8 inputs and 4 of them are the same with only 2 directions (up/upfoward and down)

jhonnys only super in gg=7 inputs and only 1 of them is the same.

now from this point it looks like yeah you might have a point but when you actually know what the 2 moves are and how to do them you realize that the smash one is way eaiser in the heat of a battle rather that dowing foward, back, downback, down, downfoward, foward+HS

Where as you can wiff the shffl and still be in good measure in the game, you wiff that super and you are sure to eat and extensive combo and be in a 50/50 afterwards.

edit: I made melee seem harder than it was

 

[SæQuo010]

And, at the end of the day, it's all opinion.

Like christianity and religion in general.

No fact anywhere to be found.

An opinion can be changeg by facts if you are not blind to facts, where blind faith is just that........... Blind and stupid.

 

[Laijin]

At the end of the day, Guilty Gear is definantly the most balanced fighting game i've ever played. The tiers are extremely close together.
Bridget, who is bottom tier completely destroys Potempkin who is suppose to be A-tier.
Millia, who is C tier matches up 5-5, does not have any unwinnable match ups. There is not one character in the game who absolutely destroys her. Slayer is her worst match up, but its definantly winnable.
In the end, GG is definantly super balanced. The tiers are more like S,A,B.

@Finch. Really? I played Tekken 5: DR, and its definantly not balanced at all. I've never heard of a game where once you get launched in the air, your going to take like 60-80% of your life no matter what. There are no escape options at all. Once your launched in the air, you might as well drop the controller and watch yourself die. Soul Calibur 2 had air control, apparently T5 did'nt even look at anything like that.

@Doodah: My only problem with SC4 is that its..well..plain. Theres nothing special about it besides being flashy. Its kinda boring cause its so plain. Its like super average. Tech Skill/Execution actually manages to make games..less plain apparently. Since I'm going into the industry, my thought about patching games is just get it right the first time. Don't **** up first. Arc has come a long way from Guilty Gear 1, from making a completely ridiculously broken game to making the most balanced fighting game everrr..There is no fighting game that has a serious gap between high and low tiers like Brawl(and MvC2. Magneto and Roll. Wow....).

So in the end. Its all opinion.

 

[Finch]

finch do me a favor and name 7 snk fighters!!

Then name 2 that you would play!!!

For anyone that plays fighters they know that this is not a hard question to answer.

Finch your sarcasm is not lost but you are is all I am saying. Answer the question and show me that you have any clue what you are tlaking about.

I know absolutely nothing about snk fighters. I only know a bit about GGAC, CVS2, ST, and MVC2. I don't know how important snk fighters are to knowing things about 2D fighting games. Considering evo doesn't host them anymore I assume not very. How is this relevant anyway?

and by the way marht=8 inputs and 4 of them are the same with only 2 directions (up/upfoward and down)

jhonnys only super in gg=7 inputs and only 1 of them is the same.

now from this point it looks like yeah you might have a point but when you actually know what the 2 moves are and how to do them you realize that the smash one is way eaiser in the heat of a battle rather that dowing foward, back, downback, down, downfoward, foward+HS

Where as you can wiff the shffl and still be in good measure in the game, you wiff that super and you are sure to eat and extensive combo and be in a 50/50 afterwards.

edit: I made melee seem harder than it was

Clearly you don't know much about competitive smash. I don't know much about traditional fighters, but I am smart enough to know that at high level messing up in any high speed competitive game will get you punished every time. Your example, though it oversimplified melee by not taking into account the need to follow opponent's DI, really only proved that I was correct in asserting the kind of tech skill needed for melee is not really different from any other fighter. That's the only point I was trying to make, so thanks for agreeing with me?

 

[GA Peach]

wow, this thread...
knowing about SNK fighters doesn't identify anyone's knowledge about fighting games in general. i mean, I like SNK's fighters for the most part, but that's irrelevant. also, to be fair, attacking in Smash is a lot safer than most games because of being able to cancel your own lag without connecting with an attack, and with the mechanics being so different, it's hard to compare Smash and conventional fighters.



@Laijin - Finch didn't say anything about Tekken, i did...but anyway, even though juggles can be extensive, if you know what you are doing, and what to look out for, getting juggled like that is very difficult. most time in matches is spent poking around looking for mixups to lead to the pop-up.

i also don't enjoy SC4, but for different reasons. i don't think it is plain at all, but unfortunately, it has taken a Smash 64-esque approach to guarding. with the addition of many auto-guard attacks, many more guard crushes and making them a lot faster, and an actual guard meter, blocking things is incredibly risky, and outright attacking seems to be a much more viable option. plus, the back parry seems atrocious, as it just plants them prone on their face instead of standing at frame disadvantage. i used to play SC2 competitively, so i'm used to the mechanics in that, and don't know a whole lot about SC4. just my thoughts.

@Umby - Boota would probably be broke tier, lol. Best mole in existance. But, I can teach you a good bit about 3S. Although I haven't really played competitively since 2000 or so, I can still show you the basics.

 

[SæQuo010]

I know absolutely nothing about snk fighters. I only know a bit about GGAC, CVS2, ST, and MVC2. I don't know how important snk fighters are to knowing things about 2D fighting games. Considering evo doesn't host them anymore I assume not very. How is this relevant anyway?


Clearly you don't know much about competitive smash. I don't know much about traditional fighters, but I am smart enough to know that at high level messing up in any high speed competitive game will get you punished every time. Your example, though it oversimplified melee by not taking into account the need to follow opponent's DI, really only proved that I was correct in asserting the kind of tech skill needed for melee is not really different from any other fighter. That's the only point I was trying to make, so thanks for agreeing with me?

SNK paved the way for almost all the fighters you know anything about. GG, cvs2 and mvc2 are all in a medium with snk fighters. Just because snk fighters are not played in the us what does that prove? KOfum98 is still played in the SBO. GGac never even saw evo and ggslash was droped after a lackluster showing in the 07 year with sponsors. AOF and FF are in the same relm as ST, just not followed. They are not clones but an orignal concept, their supers are followed in most games that do not have taging in them and some that do.(even in thier own kofxi)


Read much? Is there land lag with a shffl? If there is then I see now how to get punished. If not like we both know there is not/minimum then it is not getting punished but getting out smarted in a 50/50. 4 inputs twice and 7 different inputs are in much different relms. Do you even touch back or back/down. The tech skill in melee is much different than that of any fighting game. You can not take you knowledge of smash to other fighters (except jump_____ stars) 2d or 3d or 5d even.

If you are so sure that I have helped your point then why not play the 5 games we are talking about for money and see how it turns out? I know nothing of melee except Dr. Mario and I am still willing to put $200 plus on the 5 games in question. With a $75 cap on melee.

This is only to prove a point to you of "tech skill." You see my "Opinion" is one of multi facts and yours is one of how much you like your game and how much you want it to be a fighter. The games that fall into the niche of a fighter are one in the same but the high level is so much different. This is how I know that I will make our melee matches cool but you will win. Where as I would crap myself an extra 5 dollars if I do not "OCV" you in mvc2 and cvs2, and just run circles around you in ggac and st. I could be wrong as it is possiable but I would like to see how see this go down as you seem "smart" and you should be able to apply simple things from smash to mvc2

No hate finch but I knew that you play smash and smash only so it was easy to kill your point. I mean who plays mvc2 and ggac but has no knowledge of Mark of the Wolves and KOFXI. The more you know of 2d fighters the more you know that melee/brawl are just not that hard to get good at and understand.

 

[SæQuo010]

wow, this thread...
knowing about SNK fighters doesn't identify anyone's knowledge about fighting games in general. i mean, I like SNK's fighters for the most part, but that's irrelevant. also, to be fair, attacking in Smash is a lot safer than most games because of being able to cancel your own lag without connecting with an attack, and with the mechanics being so different, it's hard to compare Smash and conventional fighters.

wow!!!!!1 Just wow!! Name a better 1on1 fighting game company (besides capcom) Dude people are so weird. I mean if you play 3 fighting games and then pick up a 4th are you going to be killer in it? You might be ok at it but you will still be missing alot from the game. The more you know about the games that made it possiable for the games you play to play their respectiave ways the better you will be at those games.

Sometimes smash kids hurt my head and then someone like matt comes around and helps me to understand smash kids more.

Thank you Mr. Thunda/leh

 

[Finch]

SNK paved the way for almost all the fighters you know anything about. GG, cvs2 and mvc2 are all in a medium with snk fighters. Just because snk fighters are not played in the us what does that prove? KOfum98 is still played in the SBO. GGac never even saw evo and ggslash was droped after a lackluster showing in the 07 year with sponsors. AOF and FF are in the same relm as ST, just not followed. They are not clones but an orignal concept, their supers are followed in most games that do not have taging in them and some that do.(even in thier own kofxi)


Read much? Is there land lag with a shffl? If there is then I see now how to get punished. If not like we both know there is not/minimum then it is not getting punished but getting out smarted in a 50/50. 4 inputs twice and 7 different inputs are in much different relms. Do you even touch back or back/down. The tech skill in melee is much different than that of any fighting game. You can not take you knowledge of smash to other fighters (except jump_____ stars) 2d or 3d or 5d even.

If you are so sure that I have helped your point then why not play the 5 games we are talking about for money and see how it turns out? I know nothing of melee except Dr. Mario and I am still willing to put $200 plus on the 5 games in question. With a $75 cap on melee.

This is only to prove a point to you of "tech skill." You see my "Opinion" is one of multi facts and yours is one of how much you like your game and how much you want it to be a fighter. The games that fall into the niche of a fighter are one in the same but the high level is so much different. This is how I know that I will make our melee matches cool but you will win. Where as I would crap myself an extra 5 dollars if I do not "OCV" you in mvc2 and cvs2, and just run circles around you in ggac and st. I could be wrong as it is possiable but I would like to see how see this go down as you seem "smart" and you should be able to apply simple things from smash to mvc2

No hate finch but I knew that you play smash and smash only so it was easy to kill your point. I mean who plays mvc2 and ggac but has no knowledge of Mark of the Wolves and KOFXI. The more you know of 2d fighters the more you know that melee/brawl are just not that hard to get good at and understand.

I don't pretend to know a lot about 2d fighters, so I'll just content myself with correcting smash stuff. Whenever you land in smash, whether you L-cancel an aerial or not, you are going to have some landing lag, and most aerials still have a bit of lag after being l-canceled. Because of this you always have to watch your spacing. You could get sheildgrabbed when you land, and most characters can do good combos off of a throw. Iceclimbers can take a whole stock off of one sheildgrab.

I had a big paragraph typed up about spacing, but basically it just said you have to space while SHFFLing if you want it to be effective so there are more inputs than you think there are.

Also let's be real, neither of us completely knows what we are talking about so the correct statement would be your opinion is as opinionated as mine.

 

[Zergum]

www.worldscollide.com

I'm quitting smash. This game is crazy...too crazy.

Have my babies. BTW we are going to run everyones **** in this game. RockCrock is in on it--Max too. gainville is going to be years ahead of the MK vs DC metagame.

 

[NES n00b]

stuff

haha, how can you make these statements about Melee yet so ignorant about it. If you don't talk about Melee, I will not talk about how bad SNK fighters have become.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Funny thing is:

No one here really knows what the fvck they're talking about.

I don't know a single top tier smash and gg/snk/ss/tekken/sc player.

So everyone stop talking like you know what you're talking about.

 

[nicaboy]

Accent Core, prepare for Blaz Blue.

yes oh hell yes but here is the problem uh can i really afford a ps3

 

[Flamin Roy]

Have my babies. BTW we are going to run everyones **** in this game. RockCrock is in on it--Max too. gainville is going to be years ahead of the MK vs DC metagame.

Joker is gonna be top tier because of his fatality and flash is gonna blow your effing mind with his speed lol

 

[Gingerr]

Funny thing is:

No one here really knows what the fvck they're talking about.

I don't know a single top tier smash and gg/snk/ss/tekken/sc player.

So everyone stop talking like you know what you're talking about.

That's not really a good argument. I know a lot about games I've never played in my life, just from watching/hearing a lot from people like Ryan (Hunter), Peter (FlashMetroid), MakoInfused and others.

I know tons about GG, I just can't APPLY any of it

 

[Kagesekan]

I like this thread. It ultimately boiled down into the same mess as every other thread here that isn't for a tourney

 

[Laijin]

That's not really a good argument. I know a lot about games I've never played in my life, just from watching/hearing a lot from people like Ryan (Hunter), Peter (FlashMetroid), MakoInfused and others.

I know tons about GG, I just can't APPLY any of it

From playing smash for so long, I've seen people who are not too good at the game but know all about frame data, etc etc. Like a walking smash-wiki. But that does'nt mean they really understand how things work. It may sound weird, but you its different than knowing what to do and understanding that and being able to do what you have to do and understanding it through that.

Can anyone agree with me?

 

[Kagesekan]

From playing smash for so long, I've seen people who are not too good at the game but know all about frame data, etc etc. Like a walking smash-wiki. But that does'nt mean they really understand how things work. It may sound weird, but you its different than knowing what to do and understanding that and being able to do what you have to do and understanding it through that.

Can anyone agree with me?

I see what you're trying to say. I could tell you how to make an incision and remove something from somebody's flesh, then stitch it shut. But if you handed me a scalpel I'd probably wreck the poor *******.

 

[Umby]

and flash is gonna blow your effing mind with his speed lol

Oh, God, I pray he doesn't end up like Sonic did in Brawl.

 

[GA Peach]

wow, this thread...
knowing about SNK fighters doesn't identify anyone's knowledge about fighting games in general. i mean, I like SNK's fighters for the most part, but that's irrelevant. also, to be fair, attacking in Smash is a lot safer than most games because of being able to cancel your own lag without connecting with an attack, and with the mechanics being so different, it's hard to compare Smash and conventional fighters.

wow!!!!!1 Just wow!! Name a better 1on1 fighting game company (besides capcom) Dude people are so weird. I mean if you play 3 fighting games and then pick up a 4th are you going to be killer in it? You might be ok at it but you will still be missing alot from the game. The more you know about the games that made it possiable for the games you play to play their respectiave ways the better you will be at those games.

Sometimes smash kids hurt my head and then someone like matt comes around and helps me to understand smash kids more.

Thank you Mr. Thunda/leh

...to a certain extent, yes, but most things learned in Melee can not be carried over to conventional fighters. basics can, such as mindgames, attacking intelligence, and spacing, but only on a rudimentary level, as the very foundation of smash is different from KOF or Garou, Marvel or ST. the fact that air and ground dodging exist in smash make some mindgames and traps from other fighting games almost moot. when you get close to a camper in, say, ST, you can immediately apply pressure, because instead of dodging or rolling away, they have to either hit you away or guard your hits. even in CvS2 and KOF games where you can roll, you can grab people out of rolling animations. Smash's rolling animation makes you invulnerable, so that wouldn't work. plus, if they didn't want to dodge through you or stay where they are, they can go to the ledge, which can grant them invulnerability as well. there are many more ways to guard yourself in Smash, so the mindgames and strategies, albeit similar in some ways, have to be quite different due to defensive and movement options. So I think the point Finch was trying to make, what I got out of it, anyway, is that the tech commands are still complex, as in other fighting games, and the strategies, even though different, are still just as involved as other fighting games.

@Doodah - i don't know about other people in this thread, but i know i have been very active in a lot of fighting game communities, so i at least know the basics of what i am talking about. Sadly, i am very new to GGXX, but have been learning a lot lately about it, and got to learn a bit from Flash at Final Round and Impact Clash, so I don't know a whole lot about that. besides, can't we have a discussion? it is a forum, afterall, and we are relating it back to smash.

 

[Flamin Roy]

Oh, God, I pray he doesn't end up like Sonic did in Brawl.

That would be ooober gay they always have to nerf the fast ones

 

[SæQuo010]

sorry

10 me!!!