Competitive fighters for SSBM veterans

[Puffin]

Note: please do not argue about whether Melee advanced techniques were good, whether you think Brawl will be great no matter what, or anything else not related to suggestions for new fighters here.

I've been playing SSBM competitively for a while now, and I'm decent. I was really looking forward to Brawl to have a fresh, new, competitive Smash game, but it really looks like most ATs will be gone. L-cancelling, wavedashing, and I've even heard dash-dancing from some.

Does anybody have suggestions for a good competitive fighter other than Melee? SSBM is the only fighter I've played, if that matters, but I'm sure I will enjoy a new one.

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

You, my friend, are the saddest soul i've ever met. Look, you don't NEED wavedashing! Melee just became a "Who can do more and longer wavedashes" contest, l-canceling is IN FOR MOTHER****ING SAKES, I DUNNO WHY PEOPLE KEEP SAYING ITS OUT. Not button pressing though, but just fast fall!!
So what if you can't dash dance? LEARN ANOTHER TRICK YOURSELF.

I'm getting really ****ing sick of people complaining about how there's no adv. techniques in Brawl so they'll quit. Ever heard of "going back to the [****ing] basics"!?

CAN WE GET A MODERATOR AND CLOSE THIS THREAD!? PLEASE?!

 

[Dark Sonic]

Guilty Gear is a very technical game that you could try. I don't play it much myself, but I love watching its tourney vids on youtube.

@Slayer of evil. He's saying that he'll quit if there's no kind of techniques he can learn, You know, advance techs like Pivoting, Wavedashing, L-canceling (which is confirmed to be taken out. People have already tried it in the finished product with no success. And yes, I'm talking about the "fastfall before preforming the aerial" thing), ect.

Although I'm already interested in Ike dropping, as it seems to be the replacement for wavedashing.

 

[NF Alex]

You, my friend, are the saddest soul i've ever met. Look, you don't NEED wavedashing! Melee just became a "Who can do more and longer wavedashes" contest, l-canceling is IN FOR MOTHER****ING SAKES, I DUNNO WHY PEOPLE KEEP SAYING ITS OUT. Not button pressing though, but just fast fall!!
So what if you can't dash dance? LEARN ANOTHER TRICK YOURSELF.

I'm getting really ****ing sick of people complaining about how there's no adv. techniques in Brawl so they'll quit. Ever heard of "going back to the [****ing] basics"!?

CAN WE GET A MODERATOR AND CLOSE THIS THREAD!? PLEASE?!

 

[sv3]

Well, you're pretty much off on all your points. Several techniques were taken out of SSB, but that didn't stop people from discovering tons of stuff in Melee.

Anyway, pretty much any other game will be almost completely different from Melee. I'd recommend Virtua Fighter for 3D fighting, and Guilty Gear for 2D. Virtua Fighter (I used to play 4 awhile ago) takes a lot of getting used to, and is fairly complex. Guilty Gear is kind of like Melee in that you can do a lot of random crap and have fun, but there is also a competitive side to it (WAY deeper than a game like Melee). Unfortunately, those games might also have smaller competitive scenes since they aren't that well known compared to the popular fighting games. I guess you could always just go with Tekken (ugh)

 

[SheerMadness]

Everyone should go back and play SSB64. It's a very technical game, it just didn't have a chance to be in the spotlight since Melee came out so quickly. Itll be like a whole new game for most of you, since everyone was noobs back when they played.

 

[Hippochinfat]

BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE WE'LL EVER DISCOVER THINGS.

AMIRITE?

jam

 

[NES n00b]

You, my friend, are the saddest soul i've ever met. Look, you don't NEED wavedashing! Melee just became a "Who can do more and longer wavedashes" contest, l-canceling is IN FOR MOTHER****ING SAKES, I DUNNO WHY PEOPLE KEEP SAYING ITS OUT. Not button pressing though, but just fast fall!!
So what if you can't dash dance? LEARN ANOTHER TRICK YOURSELF.

I'm getting really ****ing sick of people complaining about how there's no adv. techniques in Brawl so they'll quit. Ever heard of "going back to the [****ing] basics"!?

CAN WE GET A MODERATOR AND CLOSE THIS THREAD!? PLEASE?!

You, my friend, are the saddest soul i've ever met. You have no idea what you are talking about since wavedashing is not like you said and L cancelling is NOT IN FOR MOTHER****ING SAKES, I DUNNO WHY YOU INSIST IT IS IN. What if you never played competitive smash? THEN DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. Ever heard of "minding your **** [****ing] business"!?

Wow, I am so helpful.

Also, Guilty Gear is pretty good. While Street Fighter 3 and Marvel vs Capcom are semi popular enough for people to find. I guess.

Edit: Wow, Hippo. Can't read at all can we, but we certainly can spell and type. I wonder how you are able to do that. Maybe you can try your reading skills one more time where he says "if there is no new ATs" or something to that effect.

 

[blayde_axel]

Capcom Fighting Revolution.

Oh yeah... I went there.

 

[Firestorm88]

You don't seem to understand competitive games. I guess what you're looking for is a fighter that's been out for about 5 years and reached a point where it's evolving very slowly. I'd say look into Street Fighter II Turbo or Marvel VS Capcom 2 as both those games are still played and pretty much everything about them is known.

Or stop being such a freakin' moron and play Brawl.

 

[S0crat3s]

All of the "advanced techniques" you're talking about are just glitches being taken advantage of...I'm a competitive player, and I think Brawl will be even better without all of those tourneysot techniques...Remember, smash was still competitive before all of that crazy wavedashing, etc. was discovered, and I'm sure Brawl will be no different...After all, being a "competitive" or "pro" smasher shouldn't be about who knows the most advanced techniques, but who can battle well and intelligently, using the right moves at the right time, comboing, knowing your strengths and your weaknesses, and nimble fingers...And if you follow me, wavedashing is the equivalent of covering yourself in oil before a wrestling match: of course you have a better chance of winning, but it's a shallow victory, not one earned by skill...:/

Also, "competitive" play in Melee was Fox/Falco only, no items, battlefield, and who can take advantage of the most glitches...I'm more than sure that Brawl has fixed most of it (although the itemless battlefield fights are going to remain in the sweaty grasp of the tourneysots)...

 

[NES n00b]

I'm a competitive player

lol, no you are not. Your lost paragraph proves it. Please, don't be such a **** idiot and claim to be something you aren't just so you can have this moral high ground.

Just please, stop.

Edit: Please never come back if you are going to lie. Seriously, that is just ****ing stupid.

 

[NF Alex]

All of the "advanced techniques" you're talking about are just glitches being taken advantage of....

 

[Tobi-]

Eh, People can rant all they want. Brawl is still amazingly awesome, and I'm not going to let some upset behavior ruin my experience because everything didn't go their way.

It's not our fault you took the time to learn exploited moves. Did you actually think he would bring exploited moves back.? Well now you pay the price.

No, this isn't a flame. It's a statement. But with so much chaos here this post will probably be flamed anyway. Go ahead.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

wow

people like you are over reacting, check this vid out.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

that was an early Melee tourny on the competetive scene. Notice how most of Melee's AT arn't in play?
People need to remember Melee's metagame didn't spring up over night, these things take months and years to develope. Have faith, Brawl will develope over time just as Melee did.

 

[Balloon]

People in this thread need to ****ing learn how to read. The guy said he was going to give Brawl a chance and ****, he just wants a backup if he finds out that Brawl isn't competition worthy.

For ****'s sake.

THE ONLY UNINTENTIONAL TECHNIQUE IN MELEE WAS WAVEDASHING.

 

[NES n00b]

Eh, People can rant all they want. Brawl is still amazingly awesome, and I'm not going to let some upset behavior ruin my experience because everything didn't go their way.

It's not our fault you took the time to learn exploited moves. Did you actually think he would bring exploited moves back.? Well now you pay the price.

No, this isn't a flame. It's a statement. But with so much chaos here this post will probably be flamed anyway. Go ahead.

Worked that way with 64 to Melee. And it works that way with alot of fighting games later editions (not true sequels, editions). So yeah, it wasn't too out there to expect dash dancing back. I mean, seriously. Common.

 

[Tobi-]

Worked that way with 64 to Melee. And it works that way with alot of fighting games later editions (not true sequels, editions). So yeah, it wasn't too out there to expect dash dancing back. I mean, seriously. Common.

Well it obviously didn't work that way this time, and now look at the disaster. A little bit too much faith in it. You can still be good in Brawl without them.

 

[sv3]

People in this thread need to ****ing learn how to read. The guy said he was going to give Brawl a chance and ****, he just wants a backup if he finds out that Brawl isn't competition worthy.

For ****'s sake.

THE ONLY UNINTENTIONAL TECHNIQUE IN MELEE WAS WAVEDASHING.

Apparently you didn't read. He said that his hope for new ATs would probably last only a few months. Did all the ATs in Melee come out within a few months of its release?

 

[Puffin]

Apparently you didn't read. He said that his hope for new ATs would probably last only a few months. Did all the ATs in Melee come out within a few months of its release?

No I didn't. I said that I thought the game would only last a few months IF there were no AT's.

I'm not going to argue about this further. I would like to point out every flaw in the casual arguments, but it's not worth it, and it would be very off-topic. I want this to go somewhere, not be a flame fest.

It looks like Guilty Gear is the game of choice. Which version and system would you recommend? Also, could you point me to the "Smashboards of Guilty Gear," if one exists?

 

[sHy)(gUy]

street fighter games are fun, but ya u should give brawl a chance it cetainly wont last u only 2 months, im not saying that meele isnt a great game cuz it is but a new smash game is needed no matter how it plays. advaced techs dont make the game competitive they just add to it. go back and try to play meele without wavedashing, cancelling or dasdancing, the game is still competive u just have to rely on attacking,shieding and grabing..

 

[Balloon]

No, but he's clearly just estimating that the game is just that bad. That's why he used the word "probably". He didn't say "for sure 3 months", now did he?

It's **** clear that the game was far dumbed down.

 

[NES n00b]

Dustloop.com is the "SWF" of guilty gear.

Please, shyguy please. God I tried that once and it was horrible. So clunky and laggy and crap. >_< Just no.

 

[Mikezor]

All of the "advanced techniques" you're talking about are just glitches being taken advantage of...I'm a competitive player, and I think Brawl will be even better without all of those tourneysot techniques...Remember, smash was still competitive before all of that crazy wavedashing, etc. was discovered, and I'm sure Brawl will be no different...After all, being a "competitive" or "pro" smasher shouldn't be about who knows the most advanced techniques, but who can battle well and intelligently, using the right moves at the right time, comboing, knowing your strengths and your weaknesses, and nimble fingers...And if you follow me, wavedashing is the equivalent of covering yourself in oil before a wrestling match: of course you have a better chance of winning, but it's a shallow victory, not one earned by skill...:/

Also, "competitive" play in Melee was Fox/Falco only, no items, battlefield, and who can take advantage of the most glitches...I'm more than sure that Brawl has fixed most of it (although the itemless battlefield fights are going to remain in the sweaty grasp of the tourneysots)...

WOW!! WOW!!!

I'm a competitive player

First mistake.

After all, being a "competitive" or "pro" smasher shouldn't be about who knows the most advanced techniques, but who can battle well and intelligently, using the right moves at the right time, comboing, knowing your strengths and your weaknesses, and nimble fingers.

If you knew anything about competitive smash, then you would not claim that it was based on who knows the most advanced techniques. Comboing and nimble fingers tie in with advanced techniques by the way.

Technical skil is only important to a point because it essentially unlocks more options for the user, which in turn allows more variation and a higher level of thinking.

The reason you often see people say things like "mindgames > tech skill" is because it is possible to defeat opponent who are obviously more tech savvy by simply thinking. I'll use myself as an example. In tournaments, frequently in pool play, I'll run into Fox's who can Short Hop double laser and waveshine almost as good as some of the best foxes out there. Yet I'll 2, 3, even 4 stock them because you know what? All this Fox's do is run straight at me, short hop, and then try and drill shine me. Meanwhile I've seen this a million times and all I do is wavedash backwards and downsmash them to oblivion. Eventually they may land a drill shine or two but the reality is the attack is basically pointless because they succeed rarely and almost always get more damage than they give. Its for this reason that people often point and laugh at the players who have obviously spent hours upon hours practicing against CPU opponents, never having learned the more essential aspects of the game, which is simply thinking.

The reality is people should probably not be comparing the two as if they were seperate aspects because tech skill and mindgames (thinking) are merely vices of each other. Your tech skill are your peices in chess. The more peices you have, the better you will be able to combat your opponents peices. The peices are your outward expression of your thought process. You need the pieces to represent what you are thinking. When you are missing peices, sometimes you can think enough to make up for it, but usually any lack in material equates to a massive disadvantage as long as the opponent is thinking at near your same level but with much more material.

Mindgames are more important simply because there is a technical skill peak and not a mental one. Eventually your tech ability levels out, its only what you can do with this ability that matters (IE how you think).

^You should read this, this guy knows what he is talking about.

Also, "competitive" play in Melee was Fox/Falco only, no items, battlefield, and who can take advantage of the most glitches...I'm more than sure that Brawl has fixed most of it (although the itemless battlefield fights are going to remain in the sweaty grasp of the tourneysots)...

Looks like someone saw the tier list for the first time and picked off the top two characters. You forgot Sheik, Marth, Peach, Falcon, and Jiggs. Maybe I'm even forgetting some. And what are you talking about with this "battlefield" of yours? If you were even slightly competitive, you would know the stereotype stage is Final Destination.

 

[SheerMadness]

Trust me, play ssb64. It has Z-Canceling, teching, DI and most other advanced techniques melee has. You can also do insane combos like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKbUyO10_8

Oh, and you can play online.

 

[Puffin]

Last 2 things (and thanks a lot, NESnoob, ect.)

1. Still need to know what version and system of the new fighter to get.

2.How does Street Fighter compare to Guilty Gear, in your opinion? I've seen a few suggestions for that, too.

Thanks!

BTW, that AlphaZealot quote is a beautiful analogy. You can think forever, but if you don't have the freedom of movement to execute your plan, you can't magically fool your opponent.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

alphazealot is the antinoob

 

[NES n00b]

Last 2 things (and thanks a lot, NESnoob, ect.)

1. Still need to know what version and system of the new fighter to get.

2.How does Street Fighter compare to Guilty Gear, in your opinion? I've seen a few suggestions for that, too.

Thanks!

Street Fighter has a much bigger scene, but is less technical and has slightly less depth. Much less balanced, too unless you go for Street Fighter 2 which has hardly any technical skill, but has some good tatics and zoning is key. Also has a much smaller scene. So I would suggest Street Fighter third strike if you can't find any GG opponents.

I dunno about the first question. I guess you can always get the newest one accent core though it does have less players (I am guessing X2 is still decent size). Playstation 2 for the system.

 

[Balloon]

I haven't played Guilty Gear yet, Puffin, but I plan on giving it a go at some point. I've also really been wanting to get into Capcom vs. SNK 2 as well as Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. I love both those games.

 

[RizardoLawless]

I like Marvel Vs Capcom 2 and Street Fighter

 

[daniel26150]

Note: please do not argue about whether Melee advanced techniques were good, whether you think Brawl will be great no matter what, or anything else not related to suggestions for new fighters here. Also, please only post if you are a competitive Melee player (read: use and like L-cancelling.)

I've been playing SSBM competitively for a while now, and I'm decent. I was really looking forward to Brawl to have a fresh, new, competitive Smash game, but it really looks like Sakurai has outdone himself in taking out everything that made Melee competitive :-/. L-cancelling, wavedashing (doesn't really matter), the fast-paced action and I've even heard dash-dancing from some. If no new techniques are found, I will be disappointed.

I will buy Brawl and give it a chance, as I'm sure it will amuse me for a while (although I feel horrible about supporting the creators with my money for intentionally hurting the competitive players). I also buy it in hope that there will be something found to make it deep, but I doubt it will last more than a few months. I feel only sad that such a deep game is getting such a shallow sequel, and especially that it was specifically made not to please our section of the market.

So, with the rant ended, the question is:

Does anybody have suggestions for a good competitive fighter other than Melee? SSBM is the only fighter I've played, if that matters, but I'm sure I will enjoy a new one.

Thanks.

stop acting like a kid these "advenced techeniques" are a glichtes

 

[NF Alex]

stop acting like a kid these "advenced techeniques" are a glichtes

http://facepalm.org/

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Facepalm

 

[Puffin]

stop acting like a kid these "advenced techeniques" are a glichtes

...That is the most hypocritical post I have seen on these boards. Congratulations.

And thanks for the input, everyone! I'll give Street Fighter 3rd Strike and one of the PS2 Guilty Gears a shot.

 

[NES n00b]

stop acting like a kid these "advenced techeniques" are a glichtes

Do you know all of them? Cause some are pretty intentional. Thankfully, this board is full of other stupid people like you so it isn't nearly as embarrasing as a dumb statement like this should be.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

I'm getting really ****ing sick of people complaining about how there's no adv. techniques in Brawl so they'll quit.

Ever heard of "going back to the [****ing] basics"!?

Contradiction.

I hope have hope in Brawl, I played Smash64 a while ago with a few of my competitive friends, and we had a blast with it. People in my region still have N64 tournaments. I don't really need a competitive fighter to keep me satisfied, I'm just bouncing around Guilty Gear: AC, Melee, and DOTA lulz.

 

[RedrappeR]

Last 2 things (and thanks a lot, NESnoob, ect.)

1. Still need to know what version and system of the new fighter to get.

2.How does Street Fighter compare to Guilty Gear, in your opinion? I've seen a few suggestions for that, too.

Thanks!

BTW, that AlphaZealot quote is a beautiful analogy. You can think forever, but if you don't have the freedom of movement to execute your plan, you can't magically fool your opponent.

Street Fighter III Third Strike was a game I never really put much time into.

Then I saw this:
A quick primer. In SF3, they add something called Parrying. You know how you hold Back to block in most fighting games? Well in SF3, if you press forward at the EXACT second the attack hits you, you'll parry it, and take no chip(overflow) damage as well as absorb some energy into your special meter.

But it's hard to do. It gets easier with time, but when you start out, you need EXACT timing, and it takes LOTS of practice.

With that, I present to you the video that single handedly won over my faith in Street Fighter III:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YnEWSO6NrQo

Watch for AT LEAST 3 minutes. Trust me. You'll see what I mean. (I hope. If not, I'll point it out)

As well... I'm sorry, but please don't listen to people *****ing about the competitiveness of the game. I mean, with the roster, some people had good arguments, but at this point it's just stupid. EVERY good fighting game you'll find advanced techniques, it's common knowledge. It takes time, it takes effort, and if your expecting a game 2 days after release to really start breaking out the tier lists and such... you're mistaken.

L cancelling is disputed. Some people are saying it's in, some people are saying it's out. There's evidence for both sides, to which people reply "NAH NAH NAH! NOT LISTENING NAH NAH NAH!"

The game will BE COMPETITIVE and will be EFFECTIVE as a competitive game. Give it time.

But regardless of the fact you should play Brawl... PLEASE try SF3. You'll like it.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

i play as yun in 3rdstrike

 

[Tobi-]

If you wanted suggestions, you should of went to another sub-forum/forum. What does this topic have to do with general brawl discussion? If you didn't want rants( Which is pretty stupid, considering this IS IN a brawl board, and you are ranting)

"Does anybody have suggestions for a good competitive fighter other than Melee?"

However, this statement sums up your topic post, which is nothing related to general brawl discussion.

It doesn't matter if you are a competitive Melee player. Nearly every fighting game is different from melee/brawl, so really the field is open to anyone.

 

[SolidSonic]

 

[NES n00b]

The game will BE COMPETITIVE and will be EFFECTIVE as a competitive game. Give it time.

Not saying it can't be, but it isn't inevitable that will be as good. I bet Soul Caliber two people said that about Soul Caliber 3 being just as competitive and **** and look what happen to that.

A ****ty competitive game.