Competitive 'Dex Discussion: Alterations, corrections, etc.

[kirbyraeg]

Max Speed is best, because not everybody will try to optimize their Jaroda sets perfectly. In fact, an analysis advocating some minor middling 232 Spe would merely motivate me to run max speed just to beat people running a by-the-book set.

Protect is nowhere near as effective as Substitute. I would however consider advocating Substitute AND Protect on the same set alongside a reliable grass-type counter simply because it would force a lot more switches and really enable Jaroda to stand against almost anything assuming it can get its first Substitute up.

 

[SilentVerse]

Max Speed is best, because not everybody will try to optimize their Jaroda sets perfectly. In fact, an analysis advocating some minor middling 232 Spe would merely motivate me to run max speed just to beat people running a by-the-book set.

EVs will be changed to max speed.

Protect is nowhere near as effective as Substitute. I would however consider advocating Substitute AND Protect on the same set alongside a reliable grass-type counter simply because it would force a lot more switches and really enable Jaroda to stand against almost anything assuming it can get its first Substitute up.

Well, I guess I could also mention that Protect can be used over Hidden Power in AC, but I'm kinda iffy on that cause you get utterly walled by Grasses. It might be good if you pair it with Shanderaa though, so I'll try to test it and see how it goes.

 

[UltiMario]

Protect seems like a solid option, but does it deserve a slash next to Substitute? I've been able to stall out stuff like Urugamosu with Leech Seed and Sub, which I wouldn't be able to do with Protect. I'll add it in AC for now, but if I get more input on Protect, I'll probably slash it.

Protect can give you free turns of Leftovers/Seed Healing without costing 25% of your HP, which is good in a scenario in which the opponent can break your Sub in 1 hit. It was able to win me one peticular game where I stalled a turn with protect to get barely enough HP to take another attack from my opponent, where Substitute would've just put me at 25% less and in easy KO range, or plain not using either would've resulted in getting KO'd. Jaroda isn't exactly THAT bulky when running only 4HP, so being able to recover HP in a tight scenario like that could be the difference between winning or losing. Sure, it's all up to preference, but I find Protect just as viable as Substitute on that set.

 

[Marc]

Personally I think he's best off with a defensive SubSeeding set, which he's relatively fast for. Glare's accuracy was boosted from 75 to 90 and Jaroda gets it as an egg move, so I'd use it alongside Substitute, Leech Seed and one offensive move (Leaf Storm or maybe Giga Drain). The crux of this moveset should be surviving by draining the health of opponents who can't hit you and crippling sweepers with Glare is a nice bonus.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I actually really like that idea, considering Glare has no immunities and that most things switching in would be trying to break its sub while being faster. The only problem with that idea is that Glare's support function could potentially put Jaroda in a bad situation, as most slow U-turns will still be able to break its Substitute, giving a counter a free switch-in and nullifying Leech Seed, as with only Leaf Storm to attack most Scarfers can come in for free.

 

[Marc]

But we can assume that the switch-in Scarfer has the ability to badly hurt Jaroda anyway, and you're not looking to OHKO them with a move of your own (that kind of coverage isn't possible with two move slots anyway, aside from Jaroda just not being that strong). If you don't switch and manage to survive whatever is thrown your way (more likely with a defensive set) I'd rather cripple the opponent with Glare and outspeed them the next turn to try and get a Substitute up again until paralyze kicks in or he switches.

 

[kirbyraeg]

In general, I'd prefer what you're saying too, but there's a specific scenario which would really mess up Jaroda (and potentially your team) badly if you run Glare over a coverage move:

Turn 1: You bring Jaroda in on a weak attack or on something your opponent will switch out.
Turn 2: You use Substitute, opponent brings in U-turn attacker.
Turn 3: You use Glare/Leech Seed/Leaf Storm, Opponent uses U-turn and breaks your sub.

In that particular case with a slower U-turner (such as Scizor, who x4 resists Leaf Storm, but any U-turn user that is paralyzed by Glare will also be able to do this as well), Jaroda will be left with only Leaf Storm/Glare vs. a counter which is probably faster and able to 1hko it, or maybe even something with Magic Mirror, which could put your team in a bad spot.

 

[Marc]

But I'm not sure how an offensive move over a supporting move would solve that problem, is what I'm trying to convey.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I'm not sure either...

HP Fire/Ground deals with specific threats and common users of U-turn, and Protect can also work in such a situation to actually gradually drain/stall out U-turn pokemon who would otherwise defeat subseed completely. 2-move coverage is also very limited, but grass/ground has good coverage, and grass/fire is decent as well.

I'd actually say Glare is my favorite option now though!

 

[SilentVerse]

Personally I think he's best off with a defensive SubSeeding set, which he's relatively fast for. Glare's accuracy was boosted from 75 to 90 and Jaroda gets it as an egg move, so I'd use it alongside Substitute, Leech Seed and one offensive move (Leaf Storm or maybe Giga Drain). The crux of this moveset should be surviving by draining the health of opponents who can't hit you and crippling sweepers with Glare is a nice bonus.

I actually like this idea. I was going to add a pure SubSeeding set, but I figured Erufuun would be better. However, with Glare, Jaroda might be able to seperate itself from Erufuun. I'll test and get back with the results.

 

[MetallicMario]

I challenge you your unrecommendation of Dragon Tail. It is almost exactly the same as Whirlwind/Roar, expect with 90% accuracy, which isn't too bad, and it actually causes damage to the foe.

Of course, im not a real expect, so you can take my opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Dragon Tail runs pretty much counter to the whole idea of subseeding. On an offensive Jaroda who seeks to wear down his checks via entry hazard damage...perhaps it would work better. Maybe something like this?

Jaroda @ Leftovers/Red Card
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Timid / Perversity

Leaf Storm
Dragon Tail
Substitute
HP Fire/Ground

Red Card would actually work really well as it would guarantee Jaroda can get +2 and probably force in something ill-equipped to handle it.

 

[M.K]

Destickying this for organizational purposes.