Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[the king of murder]

One thing thing I have noticed is Gluto has evolved his gameplay by playing more reaction based with Wario instead of trying to force his way into the opponents zone and get his ludicrous reward off. Forcing your way in for stubby-ranged Wario was something that worked in the past meta due easier time getting setups into waft and unpolished neutral in favor of high rewards being a common mindset of many players but due to nerfs of Waft setups and refinement of gameplay in neutral it was getting harder and harder.

However when you look at his general playstyle today, you will notice his movement and spacing haved improved and he is no longer in a rush forcing his way into the opponents space but instead weaves in and out to bait his opponents into an action that he can find an appropriate answer for. (either immediately or later). Thanks to his air-speed, he is REALLY good at weaving in and out which it allows him to dance around swordies huge hitboxes and bide his time until he finds an opening. One user here also mentioned d-tilt spacing to punish huge- hitbox aerials which definitely contributed to his success against Spargo(among many things).

Basically this is what adjusting to the meta looks like. It worked wonders for an amazing player and a great character who had tools to handle the shifting meta but those tools were overshadowed by his absurd reward up until now.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Here we go - the post-G8 character data update. R.O.B. skyrockets to 2nd, narrowly missing reclaiming his #1 position. Snake achieves a top 5 spot, while Olimar, G&W, and Pikachu see recoveries. ZSS is also creeping back up (at 37th right now.) pic.twitter.com/5KPHwaymYv

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) April 21, 2022

 

[superjm]

I wonder how many of Samus's points are sisqui's compared to the relatively wide field of Samus results we've seen overall. It's not really talked about but sisqui quietly getting 9th in this past tournament is an excellent result, especially considering he only lost to the best ROB in the world Zomba, Samus-ROB being a rather even matchup overall by all accounts, and to long-time bracket demon Gluttony. (Seriously, Gluto might be the best non-Olimar anti-Samus player in the world right now)

EDIT - Oh and I somehow forgot Teaser getting 17th as well, only one close set loss against Riddles away from mirror-matching sisqui in fact. He's a name who's made a good showing for himself since he started travelling.

 

[The_Bookworm]

After the checking each of the brackets, the only notable upset I found for today's matches (I guess yesterday at the time of typing this message) is:
Mr. E 0-2 DarkBlues


But that is pretty much it.
A player by the name of Jeepers took a game off of Cosmos, but Cosmos still won the set handily.

I know this is based off of the literal first-half of round 1 pools, but judging by this and both the entrants and DQs, this tournament definitely feels a lot more low-key in comparison to Genesis, which is funny since this is the first Platinum Rank major event for the SWT 2022 (and the third one overall).

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

After the checking each of the brackets, the only notable upset I found for today's matches (I guess yesterday at the time of typing this message) is:
Mr. E 0-2 DarkBlues


But that is pretty much it.
A player by the name of Jeepers took a game off of Cosmos, but Cosmos still won the set handily.

I know this is based off of the literal first-half of round 1 pools, but judging by this and both the entrants and DQs, this tournament definitely feels a lot more low-key in comparison to Genesis, which is funny since this is the first Platinum Rank major event for the SWT 2022 (and the third one overall).

Typically it's Day 2 when the upsets start. But I'm not expecting as many as the ones for Genesis 8 either. It's far less stacked, probably "only" the size of Collision 2022. Tweek DQed because he recently had a bad flare up of Crohn's Disease after Genesis 8, and Kola DQed because going to three majors in a row is exhausting, so he decided to go to Low Tide City instead of this.

 

[The_Bookworm]

A few more notable upsets rolled in:

takera 1-2 Pellonian
Jake 0-2 Spectral
Beast 1-2 Hawk

And that is it for round 1 pools. Round 2 pools is about to happen soon and that is where the true action will start.

 

[F4lcoMain]

A few more notable upsets rolled in:

takera 1-2 Pellonian
Jake 0-2 Spectral
Beast 1-2 Hawk

And that is it for round 1 pools. Round 2 pools is about to happen soon and that is where the true action will start.

NGL, the amount of times Pellonian used Fair in neutral was a bit too much for my liking. Still, props to him for winning.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Jakal 3-1 Chag


Jakal does not compete all that often but when they do they end up taking sets of some orerty big names. Jakal also best Kept as well

 

[The_Bookworm]

Pound 2022 Top 32


Winner's
MkLeo vs Atelier
KEN vs Cosmos
Glutonny vs Sonix
Dabuz vs Myran
Light vs Lancelot
Zomba vs Jakal
DM vs Gackt
BacoN vs Riddles


Loser's
Sean vs takera
ApolloKage vs WaDi
Tsubotsubo vs MPg
Ling vs 0mart
Jake vs Ned
Luma vs Puppeh
LeoN vs AxiomXL
IcyMist vs Jordan


Both BacoN and Lancelot got absolutely blessed by the Round 1 DQs to make a relatively smooth winner's bracket up to this point.

 

[NairWizard]

People who thought Wario wasn't top 5 any more, I present to you:

 

[superjm]

People who thought Wario wasn't top 5 any more, I present to you:

View attachment 351067

Who needs a sword when you've got a finger?

Cosmos had a pretty clinical showing against KEN, 3-0 and even overcoming the game 2 pocket Sephiroth. I really wonder just how far he could've gone if he didn't fat-finger so badly against Ikan at Genesis.

 

[F4lcoMain]

People who thought Wario wasn't top 5 any more, I present to you:

View attachment 351067

People who thought Falco wasn't top 5, I present to you:

 

[Frihetsanka]

Both BacoN and Lancelot got absolutely blessed by the Round 1 DQs to make a relatively smooth winner's bracket up to this point.

Nice to hear Lancelot is doing well, seems he's a strong contender for #1 Nordic these days (especially with Leffen/Armada inactive). He played Roy for at least one set by the way.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Dabuz reverse 3-0'd Myran with Min Min. After Proto's run at Summit 4 and this win Dabuz has on Myran, I think Min Min might still be top 10 and if not, top 15.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Dabuz reverse 3-0'd Myran with Min Min. After Proto's run at Summit 4 and this win Dabuz has on Myran, I think Min Min might still be top 10 and if not, top 15.

Min Min is top 10-15 because she is that good of a counterpick character?
Not sure how this single win and Proto's half-Min Min, half-Lucina run at Summit correlates to a top 10-15 character, but ok then...

Still, Dabuz bringing his Min Min back from the dead to reverse 3-0 Myran was pretty dramatic.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Min Min is top 10-15 because she is that good of a counterpick character?
Not sure how this single win and Proto's half-Min Min, half-Lucina run at Summit correlates to a top 10-15 character, but ok then...

Still, Dabuz bringing his Min Min back from the dead to reverse 3-0 Myran was pretty dramatic.

Yeah Min-Min even before her latest nerfs was used more as a co-main and CP character than a true dedicated main. She does still shut down many characters but she struggles pretty hard vs a lot of current top-tiers.

In this Case Min-Min was an ideal Counterpick well vs Olimar becuase she can tear though any type of pikmin Olimar can throw at her

 

[NairWizard]

People who thought Falco wasn't top 5, I present to you:

Falco's b-air is good in its own right, but just a normal part of his gameplan. It's like bringing up Byleth f-air or Cloud b-air. Such moves are core to their archetypes.

Wario's d-tilt, on the other hand, is a disjointed grounded poking tool with (relevant) hurtbox shifting on a character with enormous airdrift whose biggest weakness is getting outdisjointed aerially. This single move glues Wario's kit together in a way such that he can contend with any swordie (Roy, Cloud, Byleth, whatever), and swords are a big part of the meta right now.

Gluto is using air movement to bait aerials, then whiff punishing them with d-tilts and converting into stocks from ledgetrap scenarios. He also claims that he's had similar developments in the Sonic and Olimar matchups, and it's not hard to see that based on his games vs. Sonix.

The more I see Wario played in this way (grounded whiff punishing), the more I wonder about the significance of the nerfs. This isn't just a case of a player being really good and outplaying his opponents (which is certainly happening); this is a case of a character developing a new playstyle in response to nerfs and that playstyle somehow looking better for the current meta than the old. This doesn't usually happen; most of the time, we see clear regressions.

It makes me wonder just how good Wario was before the nerfs relative to the unnerfed field, because the nerfs were actually quite impactful, and the Wario we're seeing now definitely has all the smells of a top tier.

 

[F4lcoMain]

Falco's b-air is good in its own right, but just a normal part of his gameplan. It's like bringing up Byleth f-air or Cloud b-air. Such moves are core to their archetypes.

Wario's d-tilt, on the other hand, is a disjointed grounded poking tool with (relevant) hurtbox shifting on a character with enormous airdrift whose biggest weakness is getting outdisjointed aerially. This single move glues Wario's kit together in a way such that he can contend with any swordie (Roy, Cloud, Byleth, whatever), and swords are a big part of the meta right now.

Gluto is using air movement to bait aerials, then whiff punishing them with d-tilts and converting into stocks from ledgetrap scenarios. He also claims that he's had similar developments in the Sonic and Olimar matchups, and it's not hard to see that based on his games vs. Sonix.

The more I see Wario played in this way (grounded whiff punishing), the more I wonder about the significance of the nerfs. This isn't just a case of a player being really good and outplaying his opponents (which is certainly happening); this is a case of a character developing a new playstyle in response to nerfs and that playstyle somehow looking better for the current meta than the old. This doesn't usually happen; most of the time, we see clear regressions.

It makes me wonder just how good Wario was before the nerfs relative to the unnerfed field, because the nerfs were actually quite impactful, and the Wario we're seeing now definitely has all the smells of a top tier.

I was actually pointing out his D-Tilt not bair lol. Still point taken. The post was meant more as a joke, nothing to take too seriously.

Actually though, alot of what you say does apply to Falco's D-tilt too, since its really useful at outranging swordies. Walking D-TIlt is one of his best Neutral tools.

 

[NotLiquid]

Min Min "struggling against top tiers" is a bit of an oversimplification considering at worst she can claim to go even or better with plenty of meta relevant characters like Olimar, Peach, the Aegis twins, and Snake; possibly even ROB. This is the character that genuinely made MKLeo consider picking Joker back up, and the fact that he already hasn't is probably somewhat telling of how much he feels that change would make. The perceived tiers are purely arbitrary, just like Diddy Kong most of her worse matchups are all over the place, and matchup spreads also kind of bury the lede. Even after her nerfs, this is a character most players don't want to face.

Psychological factors will always be her biggest hurdle, in the most two-way street possible. This applied equally in her pre-nerf days where Dabuz admitted that he didn't have the right mindset for the character. Playing Min Min is having to come to acceptance with the fact that your stock can get robbed at any second's notice, the idea being that it's counterbalanced by your ability to do the very same. In the hands of a super composed and executionally proficient player she absolutely looks like a top 15 character, but those super composed players are extremely rare to come by and most of them usually don't play her. You could make the argument that this goes for a lot more characters but given that she trades a lot of standard traits such as attack quantity for the sake of having moves with swiss army knife levels of utility, it arguably applies more so to her.

 

[NairWizard]

I was actually pointing out his D-Tilt not bair lol.

oh whoops, my bad, wow

Falco d-tilt is pretty similar, though, you're right. If Falco had even slightly better airdrift we'd all be in trouble

 

[The_Bookworm]

Pound 2022 Top 16


Winner's
MkLeo vs Cosmos
Glutonny vs Dabuz
Light vs Jakal
Gackt vs Riddles


Loser's
Atelier vs KEN
Sonix vs Myran
Ling vs Zomba
ApolloKage vs Sean


That Falcon Punch read.....

These are tomorrow's sets.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Wow. MKLeo handily beating Cosmos using his old Smash 4 main Corrin has to be one of the bigger unintentional Max disrespect moments I can think of. Forget his Bytleth. This was an example if using a real mid-tier character to beat the best character in the game

 

[Frihetsanka]

This was an example if using a real mid-tier character to beat the best character in the game

The matchup doesn't seem that bad for Corrin, who is probably a high tier anyways.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Sean 3-1 Cosmos to get into top 8


This Sean guy continues to have the hypest sets so far in Pound (Game 3 was insane) Cosmos did nkt even really choke until game 4. Where Sean also had his own SD. He just plan outplayed Cosmos

 

[The_Bookworm]

From losing to his old SSB4 main, to losing to Sean immediately afterwards in loser's.
That is a terrible way to go out in this bracket after looking so good yesterday.

Also, Dabuz managed to take a game off of Glutonny with .
It didn't last much longer afterwards, but that was interesting.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

From losing to his old SSB4 main, to losing to Sean immediately afterwards in loser's.
That is a terrible way to go out in this bracket after looking so good yesterday.

Also, Dabuz managed to take a game off of Glutonny with .
It didn't last much longer afterwards, but that was interesting.

Unfortunately Dabuz falls just short of Top 8 yet again. Despite somehow channeling Rosa's old SSB4 Up-Air to take Game 3 lol. That exchange that ended the set was just as nutty

 

[toonito]

Pound Top 8

Winners
MKLeo vs Glutonny
Light vs Riddles

Losers
Gackt vs Sonix
Zomba vs Sean (fka Cashmere)

 

[blackghost]

cashmere is the best falcon he's the only one i see balance going in and showing restraint.

riddles terry has been on point but his kazuya has been spotty so far. he will need it vs light to be on point if he wants to take this event.

i like how riddle sis abusing smash's strange rules that allow you to win a match and then switch. its the only fighting game that allows that.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

cashmere is the best falcon he's the only one i see balance going in and showing restraint.

riddles terry has been on point but his kazuya has been spotty so far. he will need it vs light to be on point if he wants to take this event.

Didn't Riddles beat Light with Terry back at Collision?

 

[blackghost]

Didn't Riddles beat Light with Terry back at Collision?

it was close if i remember right, and this time it wasnt close. light ran his terry over.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Pound 2022 (433 Entrants)

1st: Glutonny
2nd: MkLeo
3rd: Light
4th: Riddles
5th: Sonix
5th: Zomba
7th: Gackt
7th: Sean

Spoiler: Top 16

9th: Atelier
9th: Dabuz
9th: Jakal
9th: Cosmos

13th: KEN
13th: Ling
13th: Myran
13th: ApolloKage

Spoiler: Top 32

17th: DM
17th: BacoN
17th: Tsubotsubo
17th: Lancelot
17th: Ned
17th: Puppeh
17th: IcyMist
17th: LeoN

25th: takera
25th: WaDi
25th: MPg
25th: 0mart
25th: Luma
25th: Jake
25th: Jordan
25th: Axiom XL

Spoiler: Top 64

33rd: Chag
33rd: kept
33rd: DDog
33rd: Glare
33rd: Capitancito
33rd: Pink Fresh
33rd: Grape
33rd: Blacktwins
33rd: Dark Wizzy
33rd: Suarez
33rd: Peabnut
33rd: Tilde
33rd: Joe-J
33rd: Tope
33rd: naitosharp
33rd: Spectral

49th: Gatsby
49th: Mercury
49th: Nhan
49th: enhancedpv
49th: Nao
49th: DarkBlues
49th: Jeepers
49th: Soar
49th: Raptor
49th: Atomsk
49th: Amaryllis
49th: Beast
49th: Sandstorm
49th: Armadillo
49th: Scot
49th: Zie

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Can't believe Gluto won. After the nerfs, after basically everyone figuring out Wario, I never thought I'd see this day again. It's been so long since a Wario won a super major.

Really goes to show you that it's mostly about the players, and tiers aren't the beginning and end in this game.

This is going to sound unbelievable, but Wario is extremely hard to use and do well consistently with. The nair combos are different for every character, some characters it doesn't even work. Doing a landing uair is extremely tight. The waft combos are even harder after the nerfs as you saw with Gluto whiffing so many of them. Character has paper range and is extremely linear. Your opponent always knows what you're trying to do as you wiggle around in the air. Gluto overcame all of that to win. Incredible.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Glutonny is currently looking like a top 3 player alongside MkLeo and Sparg0. Very impressive how much he's improved when you consider he was struggling a little back when he went back to the States last year.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Can't believe Gluto won. After the nerfs, after basically everyone figuring out Wario, I never thought I'd see this day again. It's been so long since a Wario won a super major.

Really goes to show you that it's mostly about the players, and tiers aren't the beginning and end in this game.

This is going to sound unbelievable, but Wario is extremely hard to use and do well consistently with. The nair combos are different for every character, some characters it doesn't even work. Doing a landing uair is extremely tight. The waft combos are even harder after the nerfs as you saw with Gluto whiffing so many of them. Character has paper range and is extremely linear. Your opponent always knows what you're trying to do as you wiggle around in the air. Gluto overcame all of that to win. Incredible.

Seeing that Zackray decided to go Solo Wario at his competitve return at Winner #9 at did not even get into top 16. You could have a point

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 32 seeding for Low Tide City 2022

1. Sparg0
2. Kola
3. Zomba
4. Dabuz
5. Maister
6. Lui$
7. Elegant
8. MuteAce
9. Goblin
10. BigBoss
11. Skyjay
12. BassMage
13. Anathema
14. Ikan
15. Lima
16. ApolloKage
17. Dark Wizzy
18. Ned
19. Aaron
20. yonni
21. Chase
22. SHADIC
23. Geist
24. Niko
25. ATATA
26. varun
27. Grayson
28. Colorando8
29. Jordan
30. Brr
31. Suarez
32. Synergy

 

[Wigglerman]

cashmere is the best falcon he's the only one i see balance going in and showing restraint.

riddles terry has been on point but his kazuya has been spotty so far. he will need it vs light to be on point if he wants to take this event.

i like how riddle sis abusing smash's strange rules that allow you to win a match and then switch. its the only fighting game that allows that.

As far as I'm aware, but I could be wrong, you can change characters in between games in every fighting game. However, the winner of the prior game has to select first, allowing the loser to still be able to 'counter pick' if they so choose. I didn't think 'character locking' was even much a thing in any game. Weirdly we used it in Smash 4 in my area, however with the caviate mentioned that if you won and want to switch you must pick your character first and are 'locked' for the rest of the game. No choosing after the loser selects. Or you'd have to do 'blind picks' where an official was on standby, you'd tell the official your pick and you were obliged to use that character for that set even after seeing your opponents choice.

 

[blackghost]

As far as I'm aware, but I could be wrong, you can change characters in between games in every fighting game. However, the winner of the prior game has to select first, allowing the loser to still be able to 'counter pick' if they so choose. I didn't think 'character locking' was even much a thing in any game. Weirdly we used it in Smash 4 in my area, however with the caviate mentioned that if you won and want to switch you must pick your character first and are 'locked' for the rest of the game. No choosing after the loser selects. Or you'd have to do 'blind picks' where an official was on standby, you'd tell the official your pick and you were obliged to use that character for that set even after seeing your opponents choice.

In other games if you win you must stay on your character. This is two part. 1. Most 2d games stages don't matter (shootouts to mk 10 and 11 and injustice where it does but all other it doesn't) so you can't switch becuase there's no other factors to account for.
And the games where it matters have in game blind picking systems.

The reason is its not considered fair to not give your opponent time to adjust in a set by switching after a win. It's almost like restarting the match 1 0 in your favor.
Riddles plays two characters most people have little experience against and dealing with them is entirely different. Terry you can fight like a smash character. Kazuya will destroy you for doing that. I haven't seen anyone really do this at high level outside of one set where capt Zack toyed with a mexican player in smash 4.

Top 32 seeding for Low Tide City 2022

1. Sparg0
2. Kola
3. Zomba
4. Dabuz
5. Maister
6. Lui$
7. Elegant
8. MuteAce
9. Goblin
10. BigBoss
11. Skyjay
12. BassMage
13. Anathema
14. Ikan
15. Lima
16. ApolloKage
17. Dark Wizzy
18. Ned
19. Aaron
20. yonni
21. Chase
22. SHADIC
23. Geist
24. Niko
25. ATATA
26. varun
27. Grayson
28. Colorando8
29. Jordan
30. Brr
31. Suarez
32. Synergy

Here we go the annual event where bayo crashes the party. All these ROBs are gonna have a bad time. Especially if they aren't experienced. Every time an event has bayos and robs bayo places better than she should and Rob has issues.

 

[blackghost]

ignore this

 

[Cheryl~]

In other games if you win you must stay on your character. This is two part. 1. Most 2d games stages don't matter (shootouts to mk 10 and 11 and injustice where it does but all other it doesn't) so you can't switch becuase there's no other factors to account for.
And the games where it matters have in game blind picking systems.

The reason is its not considered fair to not give your opponent time to adjust in a set by switching after a win. It's almost like restarting the match 1 0 in your favor.
Riddles plays two characters most people have little experience against and dealing with them is entirely different. Terry you can fight like a smash character. Kazuya will destroy you for doing that. I haven't seen anyone really do this at high level outside of one set where capt Zack toyed with a mexican player in smash 4.



Here we go the annual event where bayo crashes the party. All these ROBs are gonna have a bad time. Especially if they aren't experienced. Every time an event has bayos and robs bayo places better than she should and Rob has issues.

Riddles has said that he started using this strat of switching between his two characters in a set because of what ProtoBanHam did at the last Summit. Notably in his set with MkLeo, he would go Min Min, swap to Lucina for a game, then go back to Min Min and keep swapping to keep Leo on his toes because he would have to adapt to the different playstyles of Proto's two characters. Proto has done this strat for a while now too, although the Leo set was a bit of an oddity because Proto normally just switches characters according to what stage they are best on. (he will only go Lucina on Smashville games, for example)

 

[Frihetsanka]

Proto has done this strat for a while now too, although the Leo set was a bit of an oddity because Proto normally just switches characters according to what stage they are best on. (he will only go Lucina on Smashville games, for example)

More and more scenes are moving over to selecting character before stage even after game 1. This is, I believe, much more fair, since the current system lets the winner potentially counter-pick vs the loser! Like if a Lucina player wins game 1 and the opponent picks Final Destination because Lucina isn't considered great on that stage, the Lucina player can just switch to Min Min. If you pick your character before the stage, the loser of the previous game will always get a good pick (assuming the stage list is balanced and they pick correctly).

Honestly I'm not totally opposed to "if you win a game you must stay with that character until you lose" like other fighting game have. It would make some counter-picks more risky and people would likely pick secondaries with few terrible matchups, which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. It's not something I've given a lot of thought and I'm not even remotely trying to push TOs into adapting this though. It doesn't seem to be common in platform fighters, but many traditional fighters run it.