Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Frihetsanka]

Joker was #1 on OrionStats for quite some time, and MkLeo won many majors with him. It's important to avoid recency bias when you look at results.

 

[Arthur97]

True, but metas also change. It's a balancing act.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Marss unwashed at last?
He is going on a tear through bracket right now, absolutely dismantling ESAM to the point where he went for game 3. ESAM started nice with the Mii, but Marss adapted quickly and dismantled that as well.

Despite both Marss and ESAM saying that Pika wins very handily versus ZSS, Marss win record vs ESAM has been very dominantly on Marss' favor throughout Ultimate's lifespan.

In loser's, ESAM is now about to fight Tweek for 33rd place.

 

[Idon]

Glad to see the ZSS still sticking around for marss despite the nerfs and marss declining faith in her.

edit:

marss is ****ing cracked.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Okay I think we need to talk about a player called Ikan and their totally, TOTALLY insane losers bracket run. They have beaten and eliminated Leon, Kurama, ESAM and now Cosmos and I do not think a single one of those sets were om stream.

I hope someone posts them on Youtube or something becuase damn that is something that needs to be seen

 

[The_Bookworm]

The duality of ESAM is to beat Tweek 3-0, even three-stocking him game 1, then losing to Ikan 3-1 for 25th place.

Anyways, this tournament has been wild so far. Aaron and yonni are both getting the loser's bracket run of their lives.

Okay I think we need to talk about a player called Ikan and their totally, TOTALLY insane losers bracket run. They have beaten and eliminated Leon, Kurama, ESAM and now Cosmos and I do not think a single one of those sets were om stream.

I hope someone posts them on Youtube or something becuase damn that is something that needs to be seen

Nairo was watching the Cosmos vs Ikan set in Twitter. Cosmos was winning game 5 handily, but he SD'd not once, but twice at 0%. In both instances, he fat-fingered the B button instead of the A button for forward smash, and got side B by mistake.

The Green Goblin strikes again for poor Cosmos.

Edit: I forgot to say is that Cosmos SD'd in a very similar fashion at some point in game 4.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

You know people in Ultimates competitive history keep saying was so OP and the #1 character in the game , kept wishing for nerfs and then were shocked when Pika never got any nerfs and remained untouched thought balance patch history. Yet there was another character that people liked to push down and much as they hyped Pikachu up. A character they could never be top-tier despite getting consistently strong results that Pikachu never could achieve . Well one thing they have in common with Pika was also left untouched in the patch history

Who? Ill give you a hint. The character is big.

There were 7 in top 64 at Genesis. I think it nearly doubles any other character.

Okay its hard to argue that R.O.B is likey a top 5 character.


Also Ikan 3-2 Yonni . Ikan gets into top 8 if he manages to beat Myran. Utterly crazy stuff.

EDIT: Alas that was not meant to be. But still what crazy run Yeah Cosmos choked hard in thier set but that should not detract too much from such a breakout performance

 

[toonito]

Okay I think we need to talk about a player called Ikan and their totally, TOTALLY insane losers bracket run. They have beaten and eliminated Leon, Kurama, ESAM and now Cosmos and I do not think a single one of those sets were om stream.

I hope someone posts them on Youtube or something becuase damn that is something that needs to be seen

You know people in Ultimates competitive history keep saying was so OP and the #1 character in the game , kept wishing for nerfs and then were shocked when Pika never got any nerfs and remained untouched thought balance patch history. Yet there was another character that people liked to push down and much as they hyped Pikachu up. A character they could never be top-tier despite getting consistently strong results that Pikachu never could achieve . Well one thing they have in common with Pika was also left untouched in the patch history

Who? Ill give you a hint. The character is big.

There were 7 in top 64 at Genesis. I think it nearly doubles any other character.

Okay its hard to argue that R.O.B is likey a top 5 character.


Also Ikan 3-2 Yonni . Ikan gets into top 8 if he manages to beat Myran. Utterly crazy stuff.

EDIT: Alas that was not meant to be. But still what crazy run Yeah Cosmos choked hard in thier set but that should not take too much away from such a breakout performance

ngl was rootin for Ikan but GGs Myran

G8 is crazy af

 

[The_Bookworm]

Genesis 8 - Top 8

Winner's
MkLeo vs Light
Sparg0 vs Zomba


Loser's
Glutonny vs Kola
Marss vs Myran

 

[Arthur97]

Oh look, no Aegis mains in the top 8.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Oh look, no Aegis mains in the top 8.

Top 8 characters in Ultimate confirmed as Byleth, Fox, Cloud, ROB, Wario, Roy, ZSS, and Olimar.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Marss has been playing fantastically this weekend. This was truly the results needed for this year.

 

[Arthur97]

Top 8 characters in Ultimate confirmed as Byleth, Fox, Cloud, ROB, Wario, Roy, ZSS, and Olimar.

Har har. Point is, this should just further prove they aren't busted. As per usual, people fear mongered about the DLC despite the fact the balance team has repeatedly proven they're pretty good at their jobs.

That said, is Fox not a serious contender for top 8 at this point?

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Har har. Point is, this should just further prove they aren't busted. As per usual, people fear mongered about the DLC despite the fact the balance team has repeatedly proven they're pretty good at their jobs.

That said, is Fox not a serious contender for top 8 at this point?

Roy and R.O.B for sure are top 8 characters. I also say Fox and even Cloud are also top 10 at least

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Every character in top 64 of Genesis 8

Super diverse pool of characters :)

Also Rob's placement is killing me LMAO

Anathema, BigBoss, Biggymouth, Zomba, Aaron, Machu, Grayson, and 8bitman were the Robs btw pic.twitter.com/HixFXgtZCG

— Justinbyleth (@justinbyleth) April 17, 2022

Seems as though ROB will get the #2 spot after this week on OrionStats. Roy has a huge lead so I doubt ROB will be #1.

 

[Arthur97]

Fox has really been proving himself, so, yeah, top 10 seems reasonable enough.

Roy also got a bit of a head start I think due to Georgia opening up sooner, so not sure how much that skewed things. Still definitely a popular choice, but I wonder if his lead will be as massive next season.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Every character in top 64 of Genesis 8

Super diverse pool of characters :)

Also Rob's placement is killing me LMAO

Anathema, BigBoss, Biggymouth, Zomba, Aaron, Machu, Grayson, and 8bitman were the Robs btw pic.twitter.com/HixFXgtZCG

— Justinbyleth (@justinbyleth) April 17, 2022

Seems as though ROB will get the #2 spot after this week on OrionStats. Roy has a huge lead so I doubt ROB will be #1.

Wow. That is some Smash 4 levels of oversaturation for high placings in a Major. Ultimate R.O.B aint on thier level of course but how can it be argued that R.O.B is not at least top 10 material anymore?

 

[KirbySquad101]

ROB is lowkey top 3.

Only thing holding Zomba back at this point is his own mentality. Let's see if that gets fixed in this top 8 later.

 

[NairWizard]

Oh look, no Aegis mains in the top 8.

the only DLC in the entire top 8 is Byleth

 

[Rran]

This Fox/ Olimar matchup looks absolutely devastating lol

Light practically speedran this set at the speed of some illuminating source

 

[Arthur97]

the only DLC in the entire top 8 is Byleth

Amazing, isn't it? I'm really sick of the "pay to win" rhetoric which is not really founded in reality here. Just didn't seem to matter how many times we did this song and dance, they never break the game.

 

[NairWizard]

It's hard to overstate how enormous a display of raw skill Leo's win here was. To win Genesis, Leo had to play Fox, Cloud, and Wario. All 3 of those matchups, according to Leo, are bad or very bad matchups for Byleth. When Leo and Gluto were playing friendlies last week on Leo's stream, Leo kept saying that he has to make the Corrin work even though it's a tough matchup because the Byleth-Wario matchup is too hard.

This was one of the hardest brackets that he could have gotten without ESAM or Proto being in the mix, and he tore through it.

 

[superjm]

Watching MKLeo continually reminds me what an absolutely absurd move Byleth's up B is. You can talk about his safe nair pressure, fair and bair being devastating mid-range options and other such things, but the character really only works because up B is just kinda ridiculous. It's instrumental at pressuring the space above him to allow his other options to flourish and gives Byleth such flexible recovery mixups, both getting to AND going from ledge for that matter, that a character with his mobility just should not have. And that's to say nothing of the nonsense that can happen when it hits.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Genesis 8

1st: MkLeo
2nd: Glutonny
3rd: Sparg0
4th: Light
5th: Myran
5th: Zomba
7th: Marss
7th: Kola

Spoiler: Top 16

9th: Dabuz
9th: Aaron
9th: Ikan
9th: sisqui

13th: Chag
13th: Oryon
13th: yonni
13th: Riddles

Spoiler: Top 32

17th: Monte
17th: SKITTLES!!
17th: Pink Fresh
17th: BigBoss
17th: Lui$
17th: Cosmos
17th: Teaser
17th: MVD

25th: AC
25th: Big D
25th: ESAM
25th: Gackt
25th: Maister
25th: BassMage
25th: Fatality
25th: Nicko

Spoiler: Top 64

33rd: RockMan
33rd: Goblin
33rd: jaredisking1
33rd: Kurama
33rd: Biggymouth
33rd: Tweek
33rd: Lancelot
33rd: Uncivil ninja
33rd: Zenyou
33rd: Peckham
33rd: Skyjay
33rd: Ogey
33rd: Atelier
33rd: VoiD
33rd: Mystery Sol
33rd: Anathema

49th: TriM
49th: Enki
49th: Ignaize
49th: Tsubotsubo
49th: 8BitMan
49th: Dark Wizzy
49th: Flow
49th: NoTag
49th: Grayson
49th: Machu
49th: EKING
49th: Nao
49th: Sonido
49th: Sticccy
49th: Leon
49th: varun

Despite the showcase from last weekend, Leo's Corrin saw very little play this weekend in singles (only streamed set he won games with Corrin was the first two games vs Lui$). Nevertheless, his trusty Byleth bulldozed his way through the bracket yet again. As a matter of fact, his Byleth was the only DLC character to make it to top 8.

Gluttony played out of his mind this weekend, with his loses only being to Leo.
Marss also played out of his mind.... yesterday. Still a step up from his performances the last several months.

Sparg0 finally got sponsored. Yay!


Also:

Top 8 at Cenesis lmfaooo see me at Genesis 8 pic.twitter.com/3nzSMMEZNZ

— 🍥 Marss (@Marss_NE) April 18, 2022

Another (G)enesis, another meme.

 

[Aaron1997]

Uhh so what happened to Pyra/Mythra? I thought they were going to ruin the game? Everyone except Cosmos has dropped them lol

 

[Rizen]

Uhh so what happened to Pyra/Mythra? I thought they were going to ruin the game? Everyone except Cosmos has dropped them lol

So one bad showing happens and everybody forgets that just last week there were 3 Aegis in the same Japanese top 8. If Spargo or Leo choose not to play Aegis- or Joker, it doesn't mean they're any less ridiculous or that the many tournaments they've won suddenly don't count.
Results for Sumabato SP 25

1. KEN
2. Shuton
3. DIO
4. Nietono
5. Luminous
5. Yaura
7. Jogibu
7. Taikei

 

[Aaron1997]

So one bad showing happens and everybody forgets that just last week there were 3 Aegis in the same Japanese top 8. If Spargo or Leo choose not to play Aegis- or Joker, it doesn't mean they're any less ridiculous or that the many tournaments they've won suddenly don't count.

It was Sarcasm. I was just joking how people overreact after every tourney. Still think they are busted

 

[Rizen]

It was Sarcasm. I was just joking how people overreact after every tourney. Still think they are busted

It's hard to tell through text. :/

But anyway, Aegis has staying power. Even if Cosmos chokes hard and Spargo and Leo don't use them they're still raking in results. That's a top tier. Maybe not as much but they have a huge player base. Shuton's picking up the slack.

 

[Minordeth]

Some things:

- Gluto really demonstrating the results of the grind he’s been on since before Summit. The mix of raw waft usage and setups, the pacing adaptations, and play at ledge were all superb. The man has leveled up.

I wonder if the trickle down effects when he returns to Europe will be similar to S4-era Leo on Mexico.

- Spargo is nothing if not consistent, stacking up names, and was the only player to take Leo to game 5.

- Marss The Streamer’s transformation into Marss The Competitor was exciting to see as he took out ESAM, Kola, and Aaron. I suspect if Day 2 Marss played through, he may have made it to Grands again.

- I’d love to see those Ikan sets. Dude got sent to Loser’s before top 64. And then he nearly made top 8, after taking out Cosmos, ESAM, Kurama, Yonni, and Solary Leon. Wild.

 

[Arthur97]

At a smaller event, yes. Also, how much was each of them actually using them? That's an important factor too; it's not like how people throw out three in the top 8 at SWT despite Leo not using them that much is it? Either way I think it's pretty safe to say that, no, they aren't busted nor are they a plight on the meta game. They are a nice and solid pick, maybe even best in the game for what little that's worth in Ultimate, but prior fear mongering seems to have, once again, not come to pass. They are, as it turns out, manageable and everyone isn't flocking to them.

 

[KirbySquad101]

With so many interesting - borderline insane - stories to tell from this event, including but not limited to:

• Gluto only losing to MKLeo this entire tournament run, and MKLeo's own thoughts on Gluto's main suggesting that he might be better than Aegis,
• A Ryu who almost cracked Top 8 at a Category 6 event after beating Kurama, Leon, ESAM, Cosmos, AND Yonni,
• 5 Marios in Top 64,
• A GnW (Monte) who got farther ahead in the tournament than Maister did - which hasn't happened since Genesis 6,
• A Diddy Kong (Aaron) who got MUCH farther ahead than Tweek did,
• European reps almost cracking Top 8 after nearly everyone was ready to count the region out,
• AND a return-to-form from Marss as well as a sneak preview of his Joker,

I'm kinda surprised Aegis talk is still taking up quite a bit of this thread lol. Especially considering that not much has been added to the discussion since the LAST time it was brought up (which doesn't feel too long ago).

 

[PK Gaming]

Aegis are ridiculous but they've got an extremely high ceiling and they're punishing to play

Mkleo and Sparg0 are demonstrably more comfortable using other characters

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So one bad showing happens and everybody forgets that just last week there were 3 Aegis in the same Japanese top 8. If Spargo or Leo choose not to play Aegis- or Joker, it doesn't mean they're any less ridiculous or that the many tournaments they've won suddenly don't count.
Results for Sumabato SP 25

1. KEN
2. Shuton
3. DIO
4. Nietono
5. Luminous
5. Yaura
7. Jogibu
7. Taikei

Would like to point out Nietono and Luminous were more playing Aegis as secondaries/pocket characters for specific matchups. It's more like they're becoming the new pocket rather then them being overcentralizing to the meta. I think that puts them much better off then it could be (e.g. had times when there were 3 or more solo mains in top 8 and much more in top 64, that was a character that actually caused over centralization).

 

[NairWizard]

Aegis discussion is unwarranted imo; it's just a smug "I told you so" from people who were always going to be convinced that Aegis was never and would never be a problem regardless of meta trends because they like the character's inclusion. This always happens, on both sides of anything contentious (and is equally annoying when it's people who are convinced that Aegis is broken regardless of data).

Byleth and Cloud have been discussed to death too, which means that by far the most interesting topics post-Genesis are Wario and Ryu, two characters we don't even talk about too much. I don't even know where to begin with Ryu, so let's start with Wario.

I'm a sword guy. I have a pretty good understanding of the game overall, but I'm not deep in the Wario meta.

What do the Wario mains out there think about Gluto's latest gameplay?

 

[Arthur97]

Actually, I'm pretty interested in the five Marios. Good to see him well represented even if none of them went the distance. Question is, do you think Mario will be pushed further?

 

[Goodstyle_4]

What do the Wario mains out there think about Gluto's latest gameplay?

Gluto was doing a lot of interesting stuff this time around.

He was hopping from the ledge and being ultra evasive, doing a lot of landing nairs to shield pressure and nairs to get out of disadvantage, and tightened up his nair combos tremendously. Watch his Zomba sets and compare them, he just kept dropping his Nair combos in the first one, nailed them in the second.

I'm thinking Gluto's back.

 

[NairWizard]

The most interesting thing to me was his use of Wario d-tilt to whiff punish big sword aerials like Cloud b-air. d-tilt in general seems like the move of this season of Ultimate. Early in Ultimate, it seemed like whiff punishing wasn't possible given Ultimate's speed and input delay. But now, it seems like that's not the case. Whiff punishing just moved from dashgrabbing to d-tilting landings. You see it from Leo's Byleth, Gluto's Wario, Tweek's Diddy, Roys and ROBs...

If your character has a low d-tilt with disjoint or range, you may be able to top this meta.

 

[Rizen]

Would like to point out Nietono and Luminous were more playing Aegis as secondaries/pocket characters for specific matchups. It's more like they're becoming the new pocket rather then them being overcentralizing to the meta. I think that puts them much better off then it could be (e.g. had times when there were 3 or more solo mains in top 8 and much more in top 64, that was a character that actually caused over centralization).

Again, they don't have to be exactly like it was in SSB4. Ultimate has weirdly popular characters like ROB who don't preform as well in top 8 but end up on the top of Orion stats because everybody plays them. SSB4 wasn't like that. It doesn't mean ROB's better than Aegis, although he's definitely top tier. If you look at Aegis in terms of tournament wins since they were released and not popularity they compare closer to Bayo. Aegis already proved to over centralize the meta with many tournament wins including solo wins and 3 appearing in top 8 of a super major and got nerfed. Pyra and Mythra both got the single most impactful nerf they could get and nothing more. People are acting like they haven't already been nerfed from being OP characters.

And this was one bad showing. They're still ridiculous characters. I wouldn't count Spargo's Aegis out yet and Cosmos will win more tournaments solo; he's already won several including the Mega Smash Mondays that got him into Summit. Losing MKLeo was a big blow to Aegis but it doesn't mean he dropped them because they were bad characters. He just really likes Byleth.

 

[superjm]

It's worth noting that both Cosmos and Shuton had their results improve pretty markedly once they embraced the Aegis, Cosmos especially. And while he's not using Aegis now, it can't be ignored how instrument Sparg0's use of them was in ascending post-pandemic. Honestly unless Sparg0 really, really believes in the Cloud I'm expecting the Aegis/Cloud dual-main to come back some time in the near future.

MKLeo can do whatever he wants.

 

[Arthur97]

I don't know, the Cloud is working really well for him, and he seems to really like using him. I think Cloud may be here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Also, have their nerfs really impacted them that much? Doesn't really do anything about their recoveries being snuffed out. Mythra's seems especially inconsequential as it means, what? She needs one more interaction to kill with forward smash? Something she can get pretty easily. Sure, Pyra can't throw out Blazing End as freely, but their play is very Mythra focused at top levels anyway. Not sure that qualifies as enough to take them down from "OP" if they ever were.