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Compendium of all known Zelda buffs/nerfs/changes

DreadToaster

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I'm really excited for Zelda. Almost everything we've heard from Zipzo has been positive, particularly Farore's Wind which sounds fantastic. Plus, there are custom moves, so who knows what changes we could see that make her more viable.

Besides, playing Zelda in Brawl I would have never even known Zelda was low-tier (and neither would my friends, who I always beat with her). She's great against inexperienced players, and let's face it, that's who we face when we play smash most of the time, unless you are in the competitive scene. So for me, it doesn't even matter if she's competitively viable because I can still own with her in my day to day.
Zelda is so much fun to use in casual Brawl play. When her f-air or b-air connects, it's so satisfying. It's like hitting with the knee except it can actually kill. I hope Smash 4 Zelda is just as fun to use. Definitely one of the first 5 characters I'll be using.
 

Fireemblemfreak

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I'm thinking for custom moves we'll get a faster/longer range din's fire, but weaker, a slow/smaller range din's fire but stronger. That's all I can think of at the moment. But, I plan to use Zelda, yes in competitive as well, just because I like her. I feel like that's what matters. I mean I won't only use her but she'll be my number one main followed by Lucina and Robin. She does seem better, even if she is low tier xD I'm sure she'll go up, or the game will just be more balanced so it's hard to determine things like tier placement, so it won't matter. But Zelda is unpredictable, because no one uses her in tournaments. That gives Zelda mains somewhat of an edge. That might change though. I just am looking on the bright side of things. I'll use her regardless. Of course I want her to be better, and she is seeming to be. :3
 

Crudedude

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I just hope her lightning kicks become useful again. Melee hands down has the best version. Actually Project M does but that's just a mix of the two. I was really torn in brawl to see the sour spot shrink down to 4 from 10 and had such weak kb and adding insult to injury shrink the the sweet spot down. It was like Nintendo wanted her to pay for lightning her kick away from bottom in melee (even though she was low tier those kicks were just too great). I think in the fox vs zelda video zelda hits sour spot lightning kick but could act out before fox recovered but I could have the wrong video and this might be old news. down smash seems to act the same, awesome kick and fun to see opponents fly off the stage by sliding off the ground. lol. Btw i didn't really pay attention to this but does anyone know if they took out the brawl lightning mechanic where it freezes attackers and whoever got hit by it? that was almost as bad as random tripping.
 

Novice_Brave

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I just hope her lightning kicks become useful again. Melee hands down has the best version. Actually Project M does but that's just a mix of the two. I was really torn in brawl to see the sour spot shrink down to 4 from 10 and had such weak kb and adding insult to injury shrink the the sweet spot down. It was like Nintendo wanted her to pay for lightning her kick away from bottom in melee (even though she was low tier those kicks were just too great). I think in the fox vs zelda video zelda hits sour spot lightning kick but could act out before fox recovered but I could have the wrong video and this might be old news. down smash seems to act the same, awesome kick and fun to see opponents fly off the stage by sliding off the ground. lol. Btw i didn't really pay attention to this but does anyone know if they took out the brawl lightning mechanic where it freezes attackers and whoever got hit by it? that was almost as bad as random tripping.
I believe the "freezing" effect when she lands her sweetspotted aerials is still there. Zipzo said her fair/bair had low landing lag, so hopefully that means they're quicker than Brawl's - but really, my main hope is to see the sourspot improved some. Maybe it does have enough hitstun now that she can act of it before they recover or something? I think Zipzo said the sourspot did between 4-6 damage, so it's possible it got a max damage increase as well, though I'm not sure if that was a definite 4-6 or a "ballpark" estimation.
 

micstar615

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^another thing I noticed from that clip is that Zelda's free fall speed seems much faster. This will help her get to the ground faster, which could help a lot since she's such a floaty character.

For those who don't know, free fall is simply moving the control stick down when in the air in order to land faster.

Zipzo said that free fall speed in general has increased all across the board which could be good for floaty characters like Zelda.
 

Toadallstar2

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Yepp I seen this as well, it's very fast going down. With her great far recovery also, the huge blast zones would help too.
I'm so excited to play already lol.
 

Crudedude

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If that were true, then Melee Zelda would be good.


But she isn't.
Melee zelda is good but she didn't feel complete, too much unreliable attacks moves that shouldn't have been. Felt like designers said the move looks pretty and stopped working on it. There's a reason why she wasn't low tier but as said the reason why she is in low tier is unreliable attacks (she could fit in mid tier if her attacks connects).

Edit I mean there's a reason why she's not bottom or at the end of low tier.
 
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BJN39

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^ Mkay, THAT would be true. If all of the LK stats were Melee's stats, she'd be WAY more viable.

If only that would happen... :urg:
 
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micstar615

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I have to say...after watching footage from the demo...I'm beyond HYPED! Link, who was pretty crappy in Brawl, is MUCH better, he's got new combos that he couldn't do before! It looks like there's an emphasis on combos in this game and I can't wait to see Zelda in action.
 

Novice_Brave

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Demo footage is driving me crazyyyyy!
I wanna see final build Zelda in action
Preferably in my own hands :laugh:

Link does look very well buffed, so I'm holding out my optimism that Zelda will be the same. More and more it's looking like a good thing that her utilt was changed from a kill move to a combo move for sure. Can't wait to see what other buffs she's gotten, even from the transition from e3 build to final build!
 

micstar615

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Demo footage is driving me crazyyyyy!
I wanna see final build Zelda in action
Preferably in my own hands :laugh:

Link does look very well buffed, so I'm holding out my optimism that Zelda will be the same. More and more it's looking like a good thing that her utilt was changed from a kill move to a combo move for sure. Can't wait to see what other buffs she's gotten, even from the transition from e3 build to final build!
Tilts seems like very good combo starters this time around so I think the change to her uptilt will benefit her combo game, I could see something like: down throw > u tilt > u tilt > lightening kick (or something of the sort). Add that with Farore's Wind shenanigans, she could potentially be very fun...let's hope for the best :p
 

SpLSlick

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Tilts seems like very good combo starters this time around so I think the change to her uptilt will benefit her combo game, I could see something like: down throw > u tilt > u tilt > lightening kick (or something of the sort). Add that with Farore's Wind shenanigans, she could potentially be very fun...let's hope for the best :p
Im assuming lightning kick is bair & fair?
*First game I plan on taking more serious and I never really learned any of the move's name lol
 
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Erotic&Heretic

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Im assuming lightning kick is bair & fair?
*First game I plan on taking more serious and I never really learned any of the move's name lol
Don't worry, the name Lighting Kicks is just a name given by fans (like the Knee of Justice) so it's fine to call it Bair/Fair! ;)
 

Meru.

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According to this picture, "her back throw has more range than on average. When she has succesfully grabbed someone, she can use her Back throw which has a lot of knockback". Now her throw range having more than average range is nothing new, but a very strong Bthrow is.

(Other than that it doesn't say anything we didn't know)
 
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Toadallstar2

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According to this picture, "her back throw has more range than on average. When she has succesfully grabbed someone, she can use her Back throw which has a lot of knockback". Now her throw range having more than average range is nothing new, but a very strong Bthrow is.

(Other than that it doesn't say anything we didn't know)
oooh thank you! yeah I'd love to be able to read it all but I won't bother you. However, I'm really curious of what it says about the LK. Just for amusement, if you don't mind.
 

Novice_Brave

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According to this picture, "her back throw has more range than on average. When she has succesfully grabbed someone, she can use her Back throw which has a lot of knockback". Now her throw range having more than average range is nothing new, but a very strong Bthrow is.

(Other than that it doesn't say anything we didn't know)
That sounds awesome! I hope that means "stronger than Brawl," since it was actually fairly decent for a throw there, so it getting better would be awesome. If it's on par with Ness back throw... :laugh:
 

Fireemblemfreak

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That sounds awesome! I hope that means "stronger than Brawl," since it was actually fairly decent for a throw there, so it getting better would be awesome. If it's on par with Ness back throw... :laugh:
All of Zelda's throws are quite terrible, but the back throw is pretty nice, and it getting better ? c: Hopefully her other throws will be manageable
 

Meru.

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All right, I'll just translate everything, maybe there's something useful in it. It's not very hard to translate anyway :).

Remarkable techniques
Lightning Kick: With her Forward Air and Back Air she releases an elegant dropkick, and if you hit with the tip you can give them great damage and knock them very far.

Throw: Zelda's Throw has longer range than other characters.If you succeed in grabbing our opponent, use her Back Throw which has a lot of knockback.

Special moves
Neutral B - Nayru's Love: Zelda defends herself in a crystal that reflects projectiles like a mirror. It's also useful in close combat since it slashes her opponents left and right to her and pushes them away. Avoid being attacked by using this move.

Side B - Din's Fire: Zelda releases an explosive fireball. While holding the button, the fireball will fly on without exploding and after releasing the button the explosion will go off instantly. The more you let the fireball fly, the more powerful it will become. Furthermore, it has become possible to move the fireball in the upward and downward direction.

Up B - Farore's Wind: Zelda becomes one with the wind and warps. You can freely choose in what direction you warp, so after pressing the command you will travel in the direction that you have pushed on your slide pad. She will deal some damage and knockback when she disappears and reappears, but it's not particularly powerful.

Down B - Phantom Attack: Zelda summons Phantom and lets him charge at the opponent. If you keep holding the button, Zelda is able to save magic, and when having saved magic Phantom's way of attacking will change. The more time you have saved magic, the more Phantom's power and range will improve. Phantom functions as a projectile so he will be canceled by enemies' projectiles.

Final Smash - Lightning Arrow: A simple attack with which she releases a giant lightning arrow. Its reach is so long, it will extend from one stage side to the other. It's tremendous when it comes to both damage and knockback, so if you hit you can be almost sure to kill them. It's most ideal when all players are lined up next to each other, but if they are wary of your attack, use it in a place where it will hit 1 to 2 players.

 
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Katty Shepherd

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All right, I'll just translate everything, maybe there's something useful in it. It's not very hard to translate anyway :).

Remarkable techniques
Lightning Kick: With her Forward Air and Back Air she releases an elegant dropkick, and if you hit with the tip you can give them great damage and knock them very far.

Throw: Zelda's Throw has longer range than other characters.If you succeed in grabbing our opponent, use her Back Throw which has a lot of knockback.

Special moves
Neutral B - Nayru's Love: Zelda defends herself in a crystal that reflects projectiles like a mirror. It's also useful in close combat since it slashes her opponents left and right to her and pushes them away. Avoid being attacked by using this move.

Side B - Din's Fire: Zelda releases an explosive fireball. While holding the button, the fireball will fly on without exploding and after releasing the button the explosion will go off instantly. The more you let the fireball fly, the more powerful it will become. Furthermore, it has become possible to move the fireball in the upward and downward direction.

Up B - Farore's Wind: Zelda becomes one with the wind and warps. You can freely choose in what direction you warp, so after pressing the command you will travel in the direction that you have pushed on your slide pad. She will deal some damage and knockback when she disappears and reappears, but it's not particularly powerful.

Down B - Phantom Attack: Zelda summons Phantom and lets him charge at the opponent. If you keep holding the button, Zelda is able to save magic, and when having saved magic Phantom's way of attacking will change. The more time you have saved magic, the more Phantom's power and range will improve. Phantom functions as a projectile so he will be canceled by enemies' projectiles.

Final Smash - Lightning Arrow: A simple attack with which she releases a giant lightning arrow. Its reach is so long, it will extend from one stage side to the other. It's tremendous when it comes to both damage and knockback, so if you hit you can be almost sure to kill them. It's most ideal when all players are lined up next to each other, but if they are wary of your attack, use it in a place where it will hit 1 to 2 players.

Man she's looking great. I'm loving how her taunts are looking and her dress is finally moving like an actual dress.
 

「 Derk 」

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Gema just showed one of Zelda's Nayru customs. It has a huge push effect after it hits. The knockback was similar to f.l.u.d.d and it pushed the opponent back almost half the stage! Could be a great edge guard move offstage.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Gema just showed one of Zelda's Nayru customs. It has a huge push effect after it hits. The knockback was similar to f.l.u.d.d and it pushed the opponent back almost half the stage! Could be a great edge guard move offstage.
Seems quite situational, but good! I suppose the reflect effect is still here.
 

BJN39

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Gema just showed one of Zelda's Nayru customs. It has a huge push effect after it hits. The knockback was similar to f.l.u.d.d and it pushed the opponent back almost half the stage! Could be a great edge guard move offstage.
Ooooh, anywhere you can point to so I and others can see it?
 

Chauzu

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Ok, just got the game and spent the first hour just playing Zelda. I was a Zelda main in Brawl (a casual one but w/e) and here's what I got.

- Up-B getting buffed was no joke. It's a reliable kill move now at 70%+ depending on character. If they get hit by the first Up-B on the ground then they're killed by the next one in the air. Needs more testing though, if you have time to react to if they get caught by the Up-B or not and instead teleport sideways...
- ...which you will probably need because Up-B also got a nerf in landing lag.
- The down aerial is more useful now. Feels easier to spike in the air and if you hit an opponent on the ground with it it shoots them upwards for a combo into up aerial or such.
- Lightning Kicks feel good and easy to land.
- Down aerial at low% is easy set-up for said Lightning Kick.
- Neutral A is nerfed I feel, think it is due to added lag afterwards.
- I feel like Down-B could be useful in spacing but I've just played cpu's so far.
- Forward - B deals much more knockback now and feels like it travels faster.
- Nair feels good, forward dash is a bit awkward and doesn't really deal much knockback either and has big lag.

Well, this is what I have so far. Most of it has probably been said before but there you have it. Going to play with her online a bit after a break.
 

Toadallstar2

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Thank you for the translation and summary, Chauzu! Dins got better since the demo? Great to hear...
Tell us more if you have anymore info <3
Particularly on how you feel about Up-Smash, and Forward-Smash compared to Brawl.
How is Up-Air as well?
 

micstar615

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Ok, just got the game and spent the first hour just playing Zelda. I was a Zelda main in Brawl (a casual one but w/e) and here's what I got.

- Up-B getting buffed was no joke. It's a reliable kill move now at 70%+ depending on character. If they get hit by the first Up-B on the ground then they're killed by the next one in the air. Needs more testing though, if you have time to react to if they get caught by the Up-B or not and instead teleport sideways...
- ...which you will probably need because Up-B also got a nerf in landing lag.
- The down aerial is more useful now. Feels easier to spike in the air and if you hit an opponent on the ground with it it shoots them upwards for a combo into up aerial or such.
- Lightning Kicks feel good and easy to land.
- Down aerial at low% is easy set-up for said Lightning Kick.
- Neutral A is nerfed I feel, think it is due to added lag afterwards.
- I feel like Down-B could be useful in spacing but I've just played cpu's so far.
- Forward - B deals much more knockback now and feels like it travels faster.
- Nair feels good, forward dash is a bit awkward and doesn't really deal much knockback either and has big lag.

Well, this is what I have so far. Most of it has probably been said before but there you have it. Going to play with her online a bit after a break.
Thank you! SO glad to hear that Lightening Kick seems easier to land! After you reappear from Farore's Wind on the ground, can you follow up with an attack right away?
 

Chauzu

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Ok, so.

I'm not the frames type of guy but I must say that up-smash and forward-smash remind me of Brawl. It can be hard to land and even if you hit the enemy might not get hit by all attacks, so that was a bit of a bummer I felt. But at the same time I feel like that if you sweetspot both smashes it's impossible to escape all hits. This will need testing (by someone knowledgeable).

And no, after Faroe's Wind you can't follow up instantly, there is noticeable lag, more than in Brawl at least.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Hmm. Wonder if it'd be a good intercepting move?

I mean, Zelda needs proper spacing. I think this is a good thing.
We only saw the knockback on the sandbag, and I don't know if it still reflect projectiles (but I guess so, the crystal is still here).

The move could be good as an edgeguard move, and well, puhsing enemies in general.
 

Meru.

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I also played a bit with Zelda but it was for a really short time. Her Bthrow was a disappointment... it didn't kill well at all.

Other than that, she feels amazing! Lightning Kicks are way easier. A charged Phantom is pretty strong but charging takes quite a long time. Dtilt is great, it pops them up slightly. Dtilt > Utilt seems a true combo and Utilt is much faster and deals less knockback now, making it a very effective combo move.
 
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