ADAPT Chance
Smash Journeyman
Sounds like it's time for Zelda to introduce the cast to her foot.
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Compendium of all known Zelda buffs/nerfs/changes
- Thread starter Novice_Brave
- Start date
Novice_Brave
Smash Journeyman
Those sweetspots DID look noticeably larger - hope that wasn't just my optimism and eyes playing tricks on me. Dair being lagless and being able to sweetspot grounded opponents is, imo, going to be very interesting. Up-b is looking just as amazing as it has since Smashfest! I'm liking that her utilt can combo now, too, really something she lacked. Definitely improved from Brawl, as far as I can see - but we'll see where she ends up in relation to everyone else, and after the metagame has really set itself more in stone!
EDIT: Zipzo will be covering Zelda's moveset here in a bit. Hopefully I can catch some more potential tricks and such!
EDIT: Zipzo will be covering Zelda's moveset here in a bit. Hopefully I can catch some more potential tricks and such!
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PrimalCarnage
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Looks like I was wrong dair actually does look useful this time! Very little landing lag sounds nice, though the range may be still be a problem.
micstar615
Smash Ace
Her Farore's Wind looks soooo good, and Naryu's has such little ending lag! She's looking good and yes those Lightening Kicks are looking easier to hit!
EDIT: also her low lag DAirs are going to help her a lot too!
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「 Derk 」
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So glad that edge cancel returned. I loved using Farore's Wind to cancel into other moves on ledges for mindgames. It also gives Zelda a big boost in mobility. The teleporting princess is back with even more tricks!
It looks like fastfalling nair works the same as it did in brawl. Looked like you were popping Dr. Mario upwards when you were fast falling and catching him with the final hit. Do you know if she can throw people in front of her with it still? Here is a video of some of the different things she could do with nair for reference. Farore's Wind looks so good now... people are going to hate playing against this move haha. Nayru's lost a lot of ending lag which is great (We knew about this one for awhile now but I think should be mentioned). Sweet spots do seem to have something about them that makes it easier to hit. Down throw to bair/fair may end up returning from brawl as an effective combo, but seems like you were having trouble landing it in the video. Not sure what to think about Din's Fire until I play it myself since I tend to use it as a landing trap and a combo move more than a long ranged attack itself. It does seem to detonate a little faster now though? Can't wait to play Zelda she looks amazing!
If you get a chance to use any of her custom specials can you see if the Nayru's push move works like we think it does? It seems like a really good edge guarding move offstage since it pushes the opponent away. Would love to know more of the custom specials also if you end up unlocking any of them! Thanks for sharing what you have so far.
It looks like fastfalling nair works the same as it did in brawl. Looked like you were popping Dr. Mario upwards when you were fast falling and catching him with the final hit. Do you know if she can throw people in front of her with it still? Here is a video of some of the different things she could do with nair for reference. Farore's Wind looks so good now... people are going to hate playing against this move haha. Nayru's lost a lot of ending lag which is great (We knew about this one for awhile now but I think should be mentioned). Sweet spots do seem to have something about them that makes it easier to hit. Down throw to bair/fair may end up returning from brawl as an effective combo, but seems like you were having trouble landing it in the video. Not sure what to think about Din's Fire until I play it myself since I tend to use it as a landing trap and a combo move more than a long ranged attack itself. It does seem to detonate a little faster now though? Can't wait to play Zelda she looks amazing!
If you get a chance to use any of her custom specials can you see if the Nayru's push move works like we think it does? It seems like a really good edge guarding move offstage since it pushes the opponent away. Would love to know more of the custom specials also if you end up unlocking any of them! Thanks for sharing what you have so far.
Toadallstar2
Smash Journeyman
ohhh amazing video. Our girl is looking good. The entire moveset looks like it just flows well together this time.
More experimentation will needed to be done by us who main her on Dins Fire, Phantom, and Down Throw to see how we can incorporate them.
I suppose Phantom is best used off stage still. Shame that it has a blind spot and its range is left to be desired.
My biggest YAY are those LKs, she's looking more like Melee Zelda but better lol. The ending lag shouldn't be an issue except for a sourspot hit, which I don't think we seen too much. I think I checked percentages and it did up to 6% for sour so that was a better sign.
Anyway, I hope we get to see more vids. I'll look around myself.
More experimentation will needed to be done by us who main her on Dins Fire, Phantom, and Down Throw to see how we can incorporate them.
I suppose Phantom is best used off stage still. Shame that it has a blind spot and its range is left to be desired.
My biggest YAY are those LKs, she's looking more like Melee Zelda but better lol. The ending lag shouldn't be an issue except for a sourspot hit, which I don't think we seen too much. I think I checked percentages and it did up to 6% for sour so that was a better sign.
Anyway, I hope we get to see more vids. I'll look around myself.
Not sure if this was mentioned but it came via an in game tip. Zelda's Phantom Knight does sustain damage, and if/when it breaks, Zelda will be unable to summon it again for a while.
micstar615
Smash Ace
Phantom is looking pretty "meh", hopefully it'll get good custom variants.
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Toadallstar2
Smash Journeyman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npk7Fk8e40g
Final Smash 5:32
The time it freezes is shorter, thank god.
It got nerfed but the thing is, they all did. Every one looks underwhelming this game and I think overall Zelda's is still great in comparison. Sheik's looks way bad lol.
Final Smash 5:32
The time it freezes is shorter, thank god.
It got nerfed but the thing is, they all did. Every one looks underwhelming this game and I think overall Zelda's is still great in comparison. Sheik's looks way bad lol.
Been playing more with Zelda. Here are some more thoughts of mine.
- I know I said Up-B got buffed but I think it's safe to say it's *the* best Up-B in the entire game. It's really fast to activate so you can react to opponents throwing a projectile / charging smash / other opening and just sweep in for huge damage and knockback. The key, as always, is to not spam it too much and to not teleport into a shield. I know this is still early days but Up-B is so powerful that I can just wait my opponent out until I finish them off with it in For Glory. It's just sick. It puts so much pressure at the opponent just by existing and I often feel like I can take control of the game just by the opponent getting catious of the Up-B. I mean it kills so early! A decent hit at 100% can kill any char, the Up B > Up B combo defo kills any char over 90%.
- I find the lightning kicks hard to land without set up, and the only reliable I can think of now is down throw at lower percentages.
- U-tilt is very underwhelming... Definately nerfed from Brawl. Smaller hitbox, less knockback.
- D-tilt feels nerfed too... I think there must be some kind of lag / smaller hitbox.
- I think I said it before but neutral A also feels nerfed, sluggish.
- Phantom is better than I thought, it's not that great but it defo serves a situational purpose to throw out. Need to try it more.
- U-air feels the same as in Brawl.
- Neutral B also feels different from Brawl... In a bad way. Need to test it more though, feels like hitbox is smaller.
So yeah overall I think Zelda got her fair share of nerfs but the combination of new game mechanics that I think favour her, as well as the incredible Up-B, she will probably be more viable than before. Will be interesting to see.
I'll maybe try and record a few online matches later, although I don't want to show off my ****ty play, lol.
- I know I said Up-B got buffed but I think it's safe to say it's *the* best Up-B in the entire game. It's really fast to activate so you can react to opponents throwing a projectile / charging smash / other opening and just sweep in for huge damage and knockback. The key, as always, is to not spam it too much and to not teleport into a shield. I know this is still early days but Up-B is so powerful that I can just wait my opponent out until I finish them off with it in For Glory. It's just sick. It puts so much pressure at the opponent just by existing and I often feel like I can take control of the game just by the opponent getting catious of the Up-B. I mean it kills so early! A decent hit at 100% can kill any char, the Up B > Up B combo defo kills any char over 90%.
- I find the lightning kicks hard to land without set up, and the only reliable I can think of now is down throw at lower percentages.
- U-tilt is very underwhelming... Definately nerfed from Brawl. Smaller hitbox, less knockback.
- D-tilt feels nerfed too... I think there must be some kind of lag / smaller hitbox.
- I think I said it before but neutral A also feels nerfed, sluggish.
- Phantom is better than I thought, it's not that great but it defo serves a situational purpose to throw out. Need to try it more.
- U-air feels the same as in Brawl.
- Neutral B also feels different from Brawl... In a bad way. Need to test it more though, feels like hitbox is smaller.
So yeah overall I think Zelda got her fair share of nerfs but the combination of new game mechanics that I think favour her, as well as the incredible Up-B, she will probably be more viable than before. Will be interesting to see.
I'll maybe try and record a few online matches later, although I don't want to show off my ****ty play, lol.
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Novice_Brave
Smash Journeyman
Dair always had a sweetspot, but only on opponents in the air - it can sweetspot on grounded characters now, if that's what you mean!
.Shìkì
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Yeah sorry. That.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
Well, except in Melee.
Novice_Brave
Smash Journeyman
Oh woah, I completely forgot it didn't in Melee. I haven't played Melee in so long
It is thankfully looking better in Smash 4 than any previous iteration though, so that's gotta be something at least.
Katty Shepherd
Smash Ace
How Accurate is Farore's Wind now? Is it still great for recovery? How about the range?
.Shìkì
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Some of the answers are: Still great for recovery, is a killmove now,comoes into itself (meaning hit on startup and hit on reappearing), snaps to ledges (meaning you will stop at the ledge instead of teleporting past it), looks pretty damn accurate.
Katty Shepherd
Smash Ace
Oh man that sounds beautiful and we have a faster start-up. I don't know about you guys but I'm feeling kind of optimistic about Farore's Wind.
Am I the only one nervous about getting the game and having to figure out all the little tweaks to Zelda, I mean I've been playing brawl Zelda for so long that it's kind of natural for me.
A lot of the nerfs you listed, I think, we're to make combos easier to execute with Zelda. With less hitback, it's a lot easier to perform combos with this moves now.
Toadallstar2
Smash Journeyman
thank you for info, I would love online videos.
FiXalaS
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The only combos I've seen were Dtilt to Utilt
of course, not a lot play Zelda we need to see more.
.Shìkì
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I saw downthrow->bair i think, the guy was BAD with sweetspotting though.
Dude Faroe's Wind buff is the best to happen to Zelda.
Check 6:25 or something into the vid. It kills Fox at 75% - pretty close to the edge I guess, but if 90%+ it would defo kill even in the middle. And this is in a game famous for large blast zones and characters capable of living well into 150%+. Being able to *reliably* kill each character at 100% with a move with no start up lag that you can use out of shield is insane and I'd say unique to Zelda.
So Faroe's Wind changes from Brawl...
- Much greater knockback
- Ability to hit on start up
- Start up hit sends enemy up so you can land a 2nd hit at higher precentage
- The great knockback coupled with hitting high in the air allows for guaranteed low% kills if landing the start up
- Teleport is faster (I think? Feels like it)
- Automatic sweetspotting when aiming around the ledge
- A bit more ending lag when reappearing on the ground
So yeah the pros greatly outweigh the cons. It wouldn't surprise me if this move is deemed broken in the future. You will always have to be cautious against Zelda in Smash 4 at least.
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「 Derk 」
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A Naryu's that not only draws opponents in but also explodes and has high knockback? That move screams combo potential and yet another kill move for Zelda. The shield breaker phantom looks very interesting. It has a set distance and gives Zelda a good approach option. Sakurai has been watching Project: M based on Din's 3rd option. If only Din's stayed out a little longer before it exploded it would be golden. Will have to play around with it when I get the game in a few weeks to see how Din's feels but that looks like a great option. Think I will stick to the default Farore's since it is such a crazy move now. Zelda is going to be a monster in Smash 4...
Meru.
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I disagree. Dtilt is great now, it pops them up slightly and guarantees an Utilt. I wouldn't be surprised if Dtilt > Usmash worked too. Utilt itself sets up for a Nair or you can chase their landing. Nair feels waaaay better when it connects and her Utilt and Dthrow seem like a good set-up. The hitbox didn't feel worse to me at all.
I agree about the lightning kicks though. They are easier to land than in Brawl but it still doesn't make them easy to land. I got a lot of sourspots when I tried hitting my opponents, but on the other hand, often the sweetspot would connect on timings it wouldn't connect in Brawl. It has become easier than in Brawl, but it's still nowhere near Melee easy.
Yeah sorry as said this is just initial reactions, haven't really expanded that much on d-tilt yet. And the rest might be that the animation is different; it just felt "better" to hit them before.
Novice_Brave
Smash Journeyman
Thank you so much @
Chauzu
for the video! I think it seems that perhaps the best setup could be default Nayru and Farore, delayed Din's, and default/shield breaking Phantom? None of the Farore customs look better than default, and I'm still having an internal debate about the Phantom, but I do think that it's more likely I'll be using right in front of me most of the time anyway, so for it to be able to charge and break shields and still stay in front sounds nice. Delayed Din's looks potentially really lovely, once you learn the delay and get good at placing them like traps with good reads. Also, Din's sweetspot killing pretty securely at 125% is really cool.
Each day gets me more pumped for Smash 4 Zelda <3
Chauzu
for the video! I think it seems that perhaps the best setup could be default Nayru and Farore, delayed Din's, and default/shield breaking Phantom? None of the Farore customs look better than default, and I'm still having an internal debate about the Phantom, but I do think that it's more likely I'll be using right in front of me most of the time anyway, so for it to be able to charge and break shields and still stay in front sounds nice. Delayed Din's looks potentially really lovely, once you learn the delay and get good at placing them like traps with good reads. Also, Din's sweetspot killing pretty securely at 125% is really cool. Each day gets me more pumped for Smash 4 Zelda <3
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.Shìkì
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Has anyone seen how long it takes to recover from the Nayruus that turns people around? Because if you could use that on people that have already used their second jump offstage and could still manage to return to the stage with jump and Faroes wind... Well, since it does no damage they shouldn't get their second jump back right? Or did i miss something? Using that to gimp people that either lack horizontal (when below the stage) or vertical (if far from the edge) movement on their Up-B's sounds like crazy fun in theory. Depends if you would want to pass up a damaging ability though... Does it reflect projectiles?
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Yes, it does. It is the Nayru with the bomb effect that doesn't reflect.
.Shìkì
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So you can have the normal, a strong nonreflecting and a gimpingtool that reflects and does no damage. Sounds good.
PrimalCarnage
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Nice Zelda play from Nairo at the 3DS clash tornament, lots of FW, dtilt and grab. http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments
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Nairo is pretty good with Zelda. Farore's is just insane now. Absolutely love it.
micstar615
Smash Ace
Wow Nairu did pretty well with Zelda, a lot of Phantom ledge shenanigans! I think Zelda has much more potential this time around. Her UAir got nerfed unfortunately but is still a good kill move, I think I saw a DTilt to UAir combo which definitely seems to work at certain percents. Also the wider blast zones and new ledge mechanics benefit Zelda imo.
Also Little Mac on FD seems to be a big threat against Zelda :/
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PrimalCarnage
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Yea they're mentioning in the stream counter-picks are gonna be a thing. Looks like Little Mac and Ness are not favorable match-ups for her.
Toadallstar2
Smash Journeyman
How do I watch it when its live? I wanna see Zelda.
PrimalCarnage
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The tournaments done already, but the replay link is here --- http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/568701712
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Toadallstar2
Smash Journeyman
oooh thanks. thats so long thoug lol, if anyone knows the time, I'd appreciate it.
PrimalCarnage
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Skipping around, so I managed to get the times.
1hr38min is 4-man match with Zelda
3hr05min for 1v1 Zelda (with Nairo switching her on and off with Robin from then on)
1hr38min is 4-man match with Zelda
3hr05min for 1v1 Zelda (with Nairo switching her on and off with Robin from then on)
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Novice_Brave
Smash Journeyman
Dang, I'm actually far more impressed than I was hoping to be. Her up-air looks faster, so I'm not sure it being nerfed as a kill move is really too big of an issue (especially with all the other kill options she has now), but the increased speed outweighs that in a lot of respects.
Smashes look like they connect much more reliably in general, soft dair is pretty threatening, and of course... up b. Not much more to say about that. Just... up b.
Smashes look like they connect much more reliably in general, soft dair is pretty threatening, and of course... up b. Not much more to say about that. Just... up b.