Data COME AHWN - Captain Falcon MU Thread

Prometheus16

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I don't seem to struggle too much with this match-up, probably because Ness is my secondary, and I know how to exploit Ness.

One thing I like to do though, is use PT1 on someone a good distance in the air. I spin it in a circle to try and catch their air-dodges.

One other thing. Watch out for when Ness uses PK Flash when you're trying to recover back to the stage. They'll use it to cover the ledge and let it loose right before you get back. The hit-box for PK Flash is actually quite large, large enough that they can wait out your air-dodge and still hit you. Also, at this point, it is at the stronger half of its charge, and is a devastating kill move. I do this all the time on For Glory 1-on-1, and 7-8 times out of 10 it hits.

Of course, it could just be that it has only worked on people who are at a low-level of play.

Can we do Duck Hunt? I struggle against Duck Hunt a lot, not just with Falcon, but in general...



Also, is this thread usually this slow/quiet? There's whole days between everybody's responses...
 
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Zethoro

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This is one of my hardest matchups as well, this should probably be the next matchup discussed if we didn't go over it already
I asked the top player from my scene (a Falcon main) about this a few days ago, and basically, he said that if you want to win the Falcon/Mario MU, stage control becomes even more essential than normal. Mario's not floaty or anything like that so you can combo him easily and due to your speed you dominate the neutral, but if Mario even gets the slightest advantage (stage control), the tables turn fast, and if you end up offstage, you're not coming back.
 

YungSiz

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I struggle hard in the Lucas MU, it feels like you either kill Lucas early or you're semi-screwed. He has down throw up air to kill at high percents, a relatively safe recovery when he is in tether range, and has low cooldown moves that are hard to punish. What is the Achilles heel of Lucas?
 

Zethoro

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I struggle hard in the Lucas MU, it feels like you either kill Lucas early or you're semi-screwed. He has down throw up air to kill at high percents, a relatively safe recovery when he is in tether range, and has low cooldown moves that are hard to punish. What is the Achilles heel of Lucas?
The biggest thing to keep in mind with tether recoveries, only their jump and attack getup options off ledge are fast. Because of this, shielding at ledge is great against Lucas. Read a jump? Jab or hit them with an aerial and start a juggle or put them back offstage. Do they drop off and double jump? Stuff it with a jab or grab if they space poorly. Getup attack? You're already shielding. Easy punish.
In the end, edgeguarding tether characters comes down to reading ledge getup or getting them before they can tether. Falcon can't really go deep, so just read their getup to put them back in an edgeguard situation, and you don't have to really worry about getting caught off guard by neutral getup/roll since they're very laggy in comparison.
Lucas is a character that can really give Falcon a run for his money in neutral though; his aerials are incredibly good along with his zoning with ZAir and PK Fire. Practice the MU. The openings are small, but if you stay vigilant they will present themselves to you. The moment you get that opening; punish, and punish hard.
 
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Prometheus16

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I struggle hard in the Lucas MU, it feels like you either kill Lucas early or you're semi-screwed. He has down throw up air to kill at high percents, a relatively safe recovery when he is in tether range, and has low cooldown moves that are hard to punish. What is the Achilles heel of Lucas?
villager's pocket anyone?:4villager:

but anyway, I think that the Ness discussion is starting to slow down Trifroze Trifroze so should we move on to the next MU?
 

Trifroze

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I've been on a hiatus from Smash, so you can just continue with the matchups as you please if you want to move on.
 

Yangguizi

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Since it seems that its open season here on the falcon matchup thread, I would like to turn the conversation to Cloud.
He has a projectile and long range, which makes him hard to approach, and if he gets limit break, then you really have to respect him.
This puts you on the defensive, looking for openings to take advantage off, but because of Clouds speed and range you have to be very careful about jut how far away you float. Its easy for him to close the gap himself if you get too close, and if you are too far away he starts charging his limit, or tossing neutral b's.
Getting caught off the ledge is another issue。
Clouds forward air is really good for covering falcons recovery. You cant really go around it, and it meteors you if you try to come up from the bottom.

Overall I think this is by far one of Falcon's worst matchups, but I am eager to hear what you all have to say.
I certainly hope there is a trick to this that I am missing.
 

Yangguizi

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I'm down for discussing the sonic matchup.
Sonic has always been a frustrating matchup for me because I am not used to having people be able to outrun me as falcon. Sonic gets to decide the pace of the game in a way that no other character can. He can be played very evasive which makes it extremely hard to get. Sonic relies on getting in quick just like falcon does, but he dosnt do quite as well in close quarters. This tends to make the matchup bothersome because sonic just does hard to punish hit and runs.
Being very mobile and hard to predict helps to mitigate sonics advantages.
This is a pretty tricky matchup honestly. Feedback and help would be appreciated.
 

teluoborg

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Frustrating but not that hard tbh.

Falcon's dash attack beats both Sonic's down and side B, so it's a waiting game about who will bait the other out.
Don't get confused by his movements because at the end of the day Sonic's moveset is as little disjointed at Falcon's so there's a moment where'll you'll be able to trade with him, and you win trades.
 

TwoThumbs

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sonic's tough but i lean heavy on the jab. careful offstage. watch out for the spring. recover high. i'm often aggressive as captain but playing sonic i tend to do the opposite. again jab heavy. shield heavy. sonic will win the neutral if you're forcing an opening
 

hmbtnguy

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What's everyone's opinion regarding the Marth matchup?

I used to have a relatively easy time against Marth... but ever since the recent Marth buffs, I find myself losing a lot more frequently.

Any other Falcon mains having issues with Marth ever since the patch?
 

Prometheus16

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One thing to note: (as I don't play sonic enough to know that much about him) His up-b doesn't snap to the ledge if he doesn't go around half-way of the total distance it can go.

Also, would challenging the up-b to u-air with a d-air work?

It's just incredibly frustrating, because he can out-dash us...
 
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teluoborg

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Prometheus16 Prometheus16 It's a bad idea, Falcon's Dair is too slow to stop juggle attempts. There will be times when it will work, but going for it (or for falcon kick) is a pretty bad idea during fast juggles like Sonic's Fox's or Cloud's.

Rango the Mercenary Rango the Mercenary I'd say Cloud because of how strong he is as a character but Ike can juggle Falcon pretty easily too, and if you manage to send him far enough offstage you can charge your neutral B at the ledge for a free kill. It's really up to your preference imo.

hmbtnguy hmbtnguy The Marth matchup can be pretty unfair for both sides, there will be times when you'll body him and vice versa. Falcon was supposed to win the neutral thanks to his high mobility but because of the buffs on Marth's Fair, jab and Dtilt you have less room for error in your manoeuvring.
It should be pretty neutral now.
 
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So... I just fought a Bayonetta player. I never fought her before (not even seen much gameplay of her), so my thoughts in the first 30 minutes were "can something like be even allowed in Smash ?", and stuff like that. But being a donkey head, I kept on going. Strangely, my only 2 wins were with Ganondorf. I begun to understand the match up a bit more thanks to that, but I wonder what you guys have to say about the Bayonetta vs Falcon match up considering I didn't play much Falcon against her. Thanks in advance.
 
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Mini_Mac

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I'm trying to figure out better methods of avoiding Falcon's knee. First of all, I am a Mac and a Villager main and everytime I face a prestegious C. Falcon, I almost always get nailed with the knee after being D-throw'd at many different percentages (0% to about 70%) basically ending my stock earlier than I would hope. I have tried many DI variations and I have tried jumping and airdodging but it is too difficult to avoid because Falcon can just read my airdodge (I airdodge cause it comes out earlier in hitstun than jumping) and then punish with a knee closer to the floor of the stage or a spike if it's offstage and if I try and jump, he still manages to knee me before the jump animation happens because it comes out slower than an airdodge.

In terms of DI, I've tried DI'ing low (at very low percents) and he grabs me a second time for another D-throw before I hit the ground. I've also tried DI'ing high and DI'ing forward and he still manages to nail the knee with either a quick double jump into the knee or a small dash to a jump into the knee.

Does anybody else face this struggle? What can I do to better my chances of avoiding the knee after being D-throw'd or at least making the knee a sour spot?

EDIT: As a Mac/Villager main, the knee is the only thing that makes this matchup really difficult since I could be dominating the match at one point and then the falcon player could easily clutch out the match with a knee.
 
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Prometheus16

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This thread is pretty much dead, I think...

Also:
I'm trying to figure out better methods of avoiding Falcon's knee. First of all, I am a Mac and a Villager main and everytime I face a prestegious C. Falcon, I almost always get nailed with the knee after being D-throw'd at many different percentages (0% to about 70%) basically ending my stock earlier than I would hope. I have tried many DI variations and I have tried jumping and airdodging but it is too difficult to avoid because Falcon can just read my airdodge (I airdodge cause it comes out earlier in hitstun than jumping) and then punish with a knee closer to the floor of the stage or a spike if it's offstage and if I try and jump, he still manages to knee me before the jump animation happens because it comes out slower than an airdodge.

In terms of DI, I've tried DI'ing low (at very low percents) and he grabs me a second time for another D-throw before I hit the ground. I've also tried DI'ing high and DI'ing forward and he still manages to nail the knee with either a quick double jump into the knee or a small dash to a jump into the knee.

Does anybody else face this struggle? What can I do to better my chances of avoiding the knee after being D-throw'd or at least making the knee a sour spot?

EDIT: As a Mac/Villager main, the knee is the only thing that makes this matchup really difficult since I could be dominating the match at one point and then the falcon player could easily clutch out the match with a knee.
There are probably better threads for you to ask this, but I'll answer it anyway...

At that percentage it's a 50-50 (if I'm not mistaken). There are really only two situations: he tries to go for it immediately, or he tries to bait out the air-dodge. (I think that if you DI a certain way, like towards him, it actually becomes a true combo, so you're just screwed anyway). You just need to be able to predict which situation he'll go for, and then react accordingly...
 

Mini_Mac

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This thread is pretty much dead, I think...

Also:

There are probably better threads for you to ask this, but I'll answer it anyway...

At that percentage it's a 50-50 (if I'm not mistaken). There are really only two situations: he tries to go for it immediately, or he tries to bait out the air-dodge. (I think that if you DI a certain way, like towards him, it actually becomes a true combo, so you're just screwed anyway). You just need to be able to predict which situation he'll go for, and then react accordingly...
Thank you so much! Sorry about the thread posting choice. I honestly get really confused as to where these sort of disscusions belong in threads. I am actually in the prosses of learning proper SDI but yeah. I should practice mixing up my DI.

Much appreaciated :)
 

Mini_Mac

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what stages do you ban vs ike?
or what is ike best stage
Personally, I'd say stages with platforms (mainly battlefield and dreamland) because of Ike's ability to pressure and outspace his opponents with his Nair and Fair more when he manages to lure them onto the platforms after a throw combo or just a throw in general. Smashville isn't too bad since it is one platform and it moves constantly. Town & City may be on par with BF and DL because numerous platforms continue to show up.
 
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Prometheus16

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Alright everyone who frequents this thread, we need to vote on who to discuss next, since Trifroze isn't here anymore (at least, I think he isn't).

Who should we do next?
 

Mini_Mac

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Alright everyone who frequents this thread, we need to vote on who to discuss next, since Trifroze isn't here anymore (at least, I think he isn't).

Who should we do next?
Like what character to discuss matchup wise against Falcon? I ask because I am relatively new to writing on discussion forums.

If that is the case, maybe Rosalina vs Falcon (civil war grand finals MU).
 
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