Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[Kaye Cruiser]

I would imagine they'd just turn that option for the assist trophy off.

If you mean just not use the item at all, that's not enough. There are people who are going to want to use them, believe it or not. There's a reason this can be enjoyed by the hypothetical "competitive" and "casual" crowds.

If you mean just disabling those specific Assist Trophies entirely for the sake of them only being characters...Then yeah, I can see that working for that part.

But I also mentioned Background Characters in that post, so we still have those too. Then again, there aren't a lot of those outside of what i used as an example. Not any that I can think of or remember, anyway.

 

[Anti Guy]

If you mean just not use the item at all, that's not enough. There are people who are going to want to use them, believe it or not. There's a reason this can be enjoyed by the hypothetical "competitive" and "casual" crowds.

If you mean just disabling those specific Assist Trophies entirely for the sake of them only being characters...Then yeah, I can see that working for that part.

But I also mentioned Background Characters in that post, so we still have those too. Then again, there aren't a lot of those outside of what i used as an example. Not any that I can think of or remember, anyway.

I meant the latter. Hence "that option for the assist trophy" rather than "the option for the assist trophy"

 

[Kally Wally]

So, they could just remove the background character in question as well. Think of it like getting a promotion - this character isn't an assist trophy/background element/whatever because (s)he is a full-fledged character now.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I meant the latter. Hence "that option for the assist trophy" rather than "the option for the assist trophy"

Ah, of course. Had to be sure. Thanks. I do agree with that idea, then.

So, they could just remove the background character in question as well. Think of it like getting a promotion - this character isn't an assist trophy/background element/whatever because (s)he is a full-fledged character now.

That's one way to look at it, but another way would be that the stage is no longer as aesthetically appealing as it was before. It may seem like it has less life and less interesting elements as before visually.

Then again, I doubt even casual players care that much about that whole aspect and I'm positive competitive players don't.

Eh, so I guess that's solved.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

So, what I'm not quite sure I get about the clone engine is whether it can overwrite any character slot with a clone character, or just the empty forbidden 7 slots. Could anyone clarify?

 

[GunBlaze]

So, what I'm not quite sure I get about the clone engine is whether it can overwrite any character slot with a clone character, or just the empty forbidden 7 slots. Could anyone clarify?

It can take the information from a character and place it on another. Then, aided by certain commands in Assembly, it can use one of the seven(?) empty slots the game has to offer.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

It can take the information from a character and place it on another. Then, aided by certain commands in Assembly, it can use one of the seven(?) empty slots the game has to offer.

Alright, but I was wondering in particular if it could use any character slot to place the clone character in, rather than just the seven exclusively (it is 7 slots, but Roy and Mewtwo have already taken up 2)

Perhaps it would be better to explain my idea:
Many people have been saying that adding a projectile to Ganon would be impossible, I was wondering if, with some extra work, a new Ganondorf with a projectile could be created in a clone slot, by basically porting over all of Ganon's information onto a Lucario clone, for example, and then the old version were overwritten by the clone engine with whichever newcomer you would care to add.
I'm not insisting that it happen, I was just wondering if it would be technically possible.

 

[Xinc]

Alright, but I was wondering in particular if it could use any character slot to place the clone character in, rather than just the seven exclusively (it is 7 slots, but Roy and Mewtwo have already taken up 2)

Perhaps it would be better to explain my idea:
Many people have been saying that adding a projectile to Ganon would be impossible, I was wondering if, with some extra work, a new Ganondorf with a projectile could be created in a clone slot, by basically porting over all of Ganon's information onto a Lucario clone, for example, and then the old version were overwritten by the clone engine with whichever newcomer you would care to add.
I'm not insisting that it happen, I was just wondering if it would be technically possible.

I'm slightly confused why people say that. I'll use Brawl Minus as an example in which when Ganondorf holds the neutral B, it uses the super scoe giant shot, though slower.

 

[Generically Epic]

I'm slightly confused why people say that. I'll use Brawl Minus as an example in which when Ganondorf holds the neutral B, it uses the super scoe giant shot, though slower.

I agree. With the exception of the items peach pulls with her down B, game and watch food, AND the banana, all the items should be edited if you can make a character use a projectile attack or something from them. All items should be off and set at none anyways.
Snake having a smoke bomb ftw.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

I'm slightly confused why people say that. I'll use Brawl Minus as an example in which when Ganondorf holds the neutral B, it uses the super scoe giant shot, though slower.

Yeah, I know that's been done, but when it comes up in discussion there is usually some doubt about how well that would work.
In particular, is that particular item article easily editable for what you'd want on the character? What if you wanted Ganon to hold the charge or something? I was just wondering if the method mentioned would feasibly work instead of attaching an item projectile with duct tape and saying that super scope really wasn't that cool anyways so why should it matter.
Anyways, it was just a question about the clone engine's mechanics, and while it was related to giving Ganon an article that certainly wasn't the whole point. If it worked it could feasibly be used to give anyone a unique move, for example, like giving a command grab to a character that couldn't get one otherwise (however needless that is at this point).

 

[Generically Epic]

Yeah, I know that's been done, but when it comes up in discussion there is usually some doubt about how well that would work.
In particular, is that particular item article easily editable for what you'd want on the character? What if you wanted Ganon to hold the charge or something? I was just wondering if the method mentioned would feasibly work instead of attaching an item projectile with duct tape and saying that super scope really wasn't that cool anyways so why should it matter.
Anyways, it was just a question about the clone engine's mechanics, and while it was related to giving Ganon an article that certainly wasn't the whole point. If it worked it could feasibly be used to give anyone a unique move, for example, like giving a command grab to a character that couldn't get one otherwise (however needless that is at this point).

items should be great on shadow. :3 use a ( slow)ray gun as chaos spear.

 

[210stuna]

items

lol

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

For a character idea quite simple the other 2 melee characters that have not ben added yet (pichu and young link)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

For a character idea quite simple the other 2 melee characters that have not ben added yet (pichu and young link)

This thread is for numbers, not character suggestions. Please go to the Clone Engine character discussion.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Can future potential clone engine characters use Roy and Mewtwo as a base? Or will that never happen because Roy and Mewtwo already used other characters as a base?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Can future potential clone engine characters use Roy and Mewtwo as a base? Or will that never happen because Roy and Mewtwo already used other characters as a base?

They probably could but there would be no point as I believe it would just be like making whatever character was Roy`s or Mewtwo`s base was (EDIT: I`m tired ok?) the base

 

[Player -0]

Let's say Pichu WAS created. They would probably clone him from Pikachu, but could they adjust the proportions that much? To make Pichu smaller?

 

[Xinc]

probably just scale it. Pichu's pretty much that: Harms self, smaller version, non-harming Up-b, and some other stuff.

 

[Player -0]

probably just scale it. Pichu's pretty much that: Harms self, smaller version, non-harming Up-b, and some other stuff.

They would probably use Charizard if they were to do Ridley?
Just confusing how they can extend the joints of some characters like Lucario's tail for MewTwo.

 

[Xinc]

They would probably use Charizard if they were to do Ridley?
Just confusing how they can extend the joints of some characters like Lucario's tail for MewTwo.

Maybe that might work. But Ridley would have to be scaled larger, just saying. lol. Charizard's D-tilt uses the tail, I think...

 

[Generically Epic]

For a character idea quite simple the other 2 melee characters that have not ben added yet (pichu and young link)

Young Link has been replaced by Toon Link. Toon Link is how Young Link should have been. All they really need to do is put a young link texture on toon link and boom.

 

[Kor of Memory]

So with these clones, does that mean the that they have the same skeletons? Like, lets say we wanted to make Isaac with a clone from Link. I know we can scale link, but can we distort his skeleton?

Does this all just mean that the most likely new characters are going to be character with very similar skeletons to the existing roster?

 

[Player -0]

So with these clones, does that mean the that they have the same skeletons? Like, lets say we wanted to make Isaac with a clone from Link. I know we can scale link, but can we distort his skeleton?

Does this all just mean that the most likely new characters are going to be character with very similar skeletons to the existing roster?

Well Mewtwo's tail seems much longer than Lucario's so I'd assume they can distort the skeleton.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

They would probably use Charizard if they were to do Ridley?
Just confusing how they can extend the joints of some characters like Lucario's tail for MewTwo.

For Mewtwo, he was given a completely new bone tree. While his bone tree is still present while viewing his model in Brawl Box, all of Lucario's old bones like his dreads are nulled, and are no longer used.

So Pichu would totally be able to use Pikachu as a base by just messing with the bone tree proportions a bit.

 

[Chzrm3]

Oooo... bone tree. That's a disturbing image. *shudders*

I wonder how time consuming it is to make changes like that. I know I remember hearing that Mewtwo's tail was one of the most difficult things about the character - does anybody know if that was because of the bone tree *shudders*, or because of the animations?

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Oooo... bone tree. That's a disturbing image. *shudders*

I wonder how time consuming it is to make changes like that. I know I remember hearing that Mewtwo's tail was one of the most difficult things about the character - does anybody know if that was because of the bone tree *shudders*, or because of the animations?

Since the tail is made up of about twice the bones of that of like an arm or leg, I'm gunna assume it was the hardest part due to actually animating it to look fluid and natural. It's kinda like animating a cape to look natural, it's just all around difficult.

 

[artofskjet]

you've probably alreay read it but in my opinion sora fom kingdom hearts he has so many moveset options and his graphics are great so it won't be as difficult as making some characters. can someone tell me why people keep posting slippy and whithout a doubt he even has a moveset ready to be tweaked a little pichu

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

you've probably alreay read it but in my opinion sora fom kingdom hearts he has so many moveset options and his graphics are great so it won't be as difficult as making some characters. can someone tell me why people keep posting slippy and whithout a doubt he even has a moveset ready to be tweaked a little pichu

There is no Sora sticker, trophy, or AT so no. Also, wrong thread.

 

[artofskjet]

There is no Sora sticker, trophy, or AT so no. Also, wrong thread.

Sorry about that but almost anything is possible especially for a game played on Nintendo systems

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Sorry about that but almost anything is possible especially for a game played on Nintendo systems

Sora isn't licensed for Brawl and is owned by another company. If they put him in the game the owners could C&D this entire project, meaning no more updates, no more characters, no more Project M.

 

[MLGF]

Wait, why is Sora invalid?
Sora created the game, so in theory they are technically valid candidates. I'm not sure how they could incorporate them, but they're viable picks.

And I don't know any other Sora, and even if I did then I'd be positive in thinking there is there no other Sora correlated to the gaming medium, so that must be what you're talking about.

 

[Bambi_]

I know it's been said and done a couple hundred times, but I see no solid argument against Pichu and plenty for it. If they plan on adding more characters, Pichu is the clear one to add. It's the only remaining character that they have a base for, and starting from any base (even one as bad as Melee Pichu) drops workload for a character down by orders of magnitude.

It could be very easily modified to fit an otherwise mostly unexplored character archetype: an incredibly mobile, extremely aggressive glass cannon. The people who say it'd be a wasted character slot and that it couldn't be good clearly haven't seen how much Bowser rose from Melee/Brawl to PM; it's not hard to change a character to be good, while it is very hard to start a character from scratch. I have a little changelog I wrote up that I like to drop in places (partially in hopes that a PMBR member sees and likes/considers it). The resulting rat is basically just as I described above: stupidly mobile, fast hitting, has increased kill potential and combo potential, and dies with a good smash or two (assuming you can get them out before they're far away from you again).

Spoiler

General

• Recoil damage removed.
• Two medium mid-air jumps instead of one big one. Can turn around on mid-air jump.
• Lower traction for great wavedashes.
• Higher aerial and ground movement.
• Higher terminal velocity.
• Minor damage and knockback buffs across the board.

Normal moves

• Aerial overhaul (all with reduced landing lag):

• Fair now only hits once with kill potential.
• Uair is a very fast spin. Very low lag and weak knockback vertically, good for combos. (Fast enough to waveland out of when shorthopped.)
• Nair: Pichu surrounds itself in a cloud of electrical sparks. Good damage and high priority, hit multiple times.
• Dair hits at a semi-spike angle. Still a multi-hit. In addition, it releases a shockwave like Pikachu's if it hits the ground. However, this shockwave launches vertically.
• Bair can be interrupted after the second spin.

• New throws for combos and kills:

• Forward throw is weak with low scaling for setting up gimps.
• Back throw's power improved, kills at 100+.
• Down throw's release point moved up, and it now sends down initially. It is very quick and opponents can be regrabbed on the way up; however, they can also tech out.
• The parallel knockback scaling on its up and down throws allows a combo starting throw option to be available at almost all normal percents on almost all characters. Up always sends further than down, and can be used to start stuff on low percent spacies, and down's weaker knockback starts putting opponents at combo-height as soon as up throw stops working.

• The launch angle of tilts have been altered for more utility. They all have moderate knockback and increased range for starting combos:

• Up sends straight up.
• Down sends diagonally forward.
• Forward sends horizontally (still angleable).

• Jab can be canceled into tilts as well as jabs. Pichu can no longer be pushed back from collision bubble overlap while jabbing. Knockback angle and SDI modifier adjusted to keep opponents in until they react.
• Fsmash hits consecutively and chains toward itself, pulling enemies in for the last, powerful hit. KOs at low percents, but suffers from long lag, making a miss punishable.
• Dash attack is a single spiral with upward knockback, similar in animation to Skull Bash. Returns to dash after used and can be danced out of.

Special moves

• Thunder Jolt has almost all lag removed. However, it can only be put out once every 40 frames. Attempting to use it when it's not ready results in the animation playing, but nothing coming out. (Like trying to pull a second grenade with Snake.) This allows it to be followed up on, but not spammed (too much).
• Thunder is slightly faster. If Thunder does not hit Pichu or the ground it continues down further than it used to. Great for edge-guarding. Four sets of hitboxes:

• During the majority of the move, there are repeating hitboxes around the bolt with upward knockback.
• As the bolt disappears it lets out a burst sending opponents up and away.
• In an area around where the bolt strikes, opponents are sent away with fixed knockback and high hitstun.
• There is a one frame sweetspot around the cloud when it comes out which launches opponents vertically.

• Agility has less landing lag and moves faster. It causes flinching and minor damage. Can now be Agility canceled (like a QAC).
• Skull Bash has been replaced with an airdash. It sends Pichu forward quickly without a hitbox. Anything that can normally be done in the air can be done out of the airdash. It does not need to be charged, comes out in only a few frames, and can be used once per airtime. It possesses more utility and helps with approaching or following up combos.

Final smash, just for giggles
A large cloud appears above Pichu (around the size of Battlefield in length). Any enemies in the cloud recieve OHKO knockback straight up. A moment of pause, during which Pichu lets out a demonically cute "Pichu~!" Repeated Thunders proceed to rain down from the cloud, striking all around Pichu. These could be normal Thunder projectiles, as enough of those would kill anyway.

So, yeah. That's my little blurb about Pichu in PM. I feel it could be made into a unique, genuinely viable character in PM, as well as being the easiest character to implement.

 

[Bleck]

I know it's been said and done a couple hundred times

Apparently you don't, since you feel compelled to further burden us with it.

Does this all just mean that the most likely new characters are going to be character with very similar skeletons to the existing roster?

 

[Bambi_]

Apparently you don't, since you feel compelled to further burden us with it.

Who **** in your cereal this morning? Forums are for discussing, so I'm gonna discuss.

 

[9bit]

My impression of members of the Pichu Cult on Smashboards:

 

[Bambi_]

The Pichu Cult

Pichu is the one true way. He receives recoil damage for our sins. I, one of His loyal following await His second coming. He will return, and when He does, those who have not accepted Him as their savior will feel the wrath of agility cancels and actually useful thunderbolts.

 

[Player -0]

Taking out recoil damage? Blasphemous!
Edit: This is the wrong thread for this stuff?

 

[9bit]

Man I don't even know what this thread is for

 

[Bambi_]

This is the wrong thread for this stuff?

I was trying to figure out where talking about The Forbidden One wouldn't be frowned upon. All of the lone Pichu threads got locked, and the other clone engine thread has "DON'T TALK ABOUT PICHU HERE" in the OP so it's whatever.

Taking out recoil damage? Blasphemous!

It was a silly mechanic and an intentional handicap. It punishes offensiveness and limits the player's available moves if they try to avoid taking damage from attacking. And it's a much larger punishment than people realize; you take between 20 and 30% per stock from recoil damage if you don't pay attention to what moves you use, and when you're dying at 80 already, that's significant. No other character had to put up with something that dumb.

What I didn't fix in my version of Pichu, however, was his crippling range issues. He has like, none. So instead I just made it so he can nyooom around the stage and he can be in your face and then out of your face and when you're everywhere at once who care about range. NYOOM.

 

[Bleck]

All of the lone Pichu threads got locked, and the other clone engine thread has "DON'T TALK ABOUT PICHU HERE" in the OP so it's whatever.

Not good at taking hints, huh?