"Chills of the Fever" - Dr. Mario Matchup Discussion

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Vs
Discuss

I guess establishing a keepaway game is the way to go. For reference.

https://youtu.be/uGVf4vgm_RI

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I think making Olimar approach is a losing battle...
All we have is pills and a reflector with startup and lag. He has soldiers of variety to throw, including a brick wall and a poison dart (purple and white).
I think pressuring him constantly will get the best of him.

 

[Thinktron]

Hmm i think this should be rebooted This really isn't going anywhere, its been saying Luigi for a long time :/

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Are there that few Doc players in the world? Is this it? Wait, does Doc win ANY matchups? SAKURAI WHY!?

 

[Mooro...]

Just a Doc player coming through. I see that the matchup is a WIP, so I'd like to share my opinions on how it works due to my decent experience with it.
Offensive: Falco has better mobility, aerials, ways to approach, and a better projectile (Very debatable on the projectile part though). When Falco gets in, it's hard to get out since he has everything to keep us offstage and close the stock. Forward throw into dash attack is guaranteed on Doc and his fair beats out almost all our aerials except for like nair and bair. For us to make due with the offensive side of this matchup, we have to:
1.
Grab from neutral and commit with a down throw into bair or uair. Doc plays a mean bait and punish, so bait out Falco's unsafe aerials such as nair or fair then proceed to punish with a grab for our meaty strings from down throw. Down throw into bair is guaranteed on low percents and does a meaty 19% to anyone who is late for their monthly check up. Down throw into uair is our best option since Falco's a fastfaller. We can string uair into uair into uair and then finish off with a well-placed down smash or if you're ballsy, a f-smash.
2. Reverse Aerial Rush bair on shield. Doc's bair does the right amount of shield pressure and stun to be semi-safe on shield, so you could go and commit to a grab or hit and run tactic. His bair is ACable and safe as **** on shield, so use it a lot. Plus, if Falco decides to do an OoS, a f-tilt or d-tilt will relieve some pressure the Falco might cause.
Off-stage is where we shine in this area. Doc has all the tools he needs to get Falco off and gone for good. Cape and pills are what you should be doing for most of your edge-guarding. Cape when they get too close to ledge and pills for when Falco's in the starting stages of his Fire Bird. That's pretty much it unless you want to kamikaze and do a fair off-stage (Seriously doubt it though lol).

Defensive: This is where we'll mostly be in this matchup. We have decent tools to keep Falco off of us and stall for the rest even though it's the lamest type of Smash 4 play. Pills (Be warned: Falco players will probably try to reflect this, so you could wavebounce the pills even though they're still hella mediocre to mix up your options. Falco's Reflector has 2 less FAF frames than our pills though so use it from a distance) , lingering hitboxes, high knockback moves, and good OoS option with the Super Jump Punch. Falco players need their mix-up options to approach and will most likely use some RAR bairs to pressure us. Here's the rundown: Pills to keep Falco off of us, OoS Up B/Doc Tornado to relieve some of Falco's pressure.

Summary: Don't make waste of the opportunities to pressure the hell out of Falco and get him off-stage. He's easy to gimp and so are we, so don't overcommit to the off-stage game. Overall, this matchup is in my humble opinion, 55/45 in favor of . He has the better options to deal with us, but if we can get in on Falco, we have a good chance.

Now if you excuse me, I got a patient to deal with (The cringe is real in this joke).

 

[WispBae]

Hey there Doc! The Doggy boards are currently discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on this picture of the Doc about to lose his Doctorate's to report to surgery room 4, please!

 

[TTTTTsd]

Done and....done! Feel free to tag me, yell at me, or hit me with a broomstick if you want more insight, I just posted some general stuff that should help in the matchup.

 

[Macchiato]

Kisatamura I think we should redo the MU thread or make a new one. It's too unactive and we are still on luigi after like a year

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

This thread is pretty inactive. I guess we should revive it. Let's put our matchup charts here and discuss any differences.

http://smashcompendium.com/matchup-chart/ - Make your matchup charts here!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Rosalina sub-forum is analyzing Dr. Mario again this week. Here's the link to the page if you have anything to contribute.

http://smashboards.com/threads/406327/

 

[Misinko]

Bump with my MU chart.

Never ask me to make an MU chart ever again:

http://smashcompendium.com/matchup-chart/uhqnxdmlrzfoiwby/

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar board is now discussing the Dr. Mario matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[GerudoKong]

Was wondering if using dash attack lets you slide underneath when arc fire is first used

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Was wondering if using dash attack lets you slide underneath when arc fire is first used

Not easy to do if the Robin player is standing, but it's possible. You have to do it early, which means you have to predict that they're about to Arc Fire. Easier and safer to cape.

 

[DJSKRELP]

We need to redo this thread. Look at the Samus board's quality compared to ours. We have to step it up :/

 

[DJSKRELP]

How do you deal with Pacman? My last tournament I got knocked into losers by my doubles teamate. I was unsure what to do because of Pac's set ups.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I don't know anything about Pac-Man setups (beginner or advanced) but a few things to remember:

• Pac's dash attack is weird. It can be interrupted earlier so you have to punish it early or eat a jab/whatever.
• Up-B OOS for Pac-Man is unblockable.
• Side-B is not safe on sheild but it has super armor. If you hit Pac Man before he follows the pellet, you can interrupt the move. The pellet also becomes a food item.
• All of the bonus fruit can be used against him, via reflecting or picking them if you are in the right place. I see a lot of Pac-Men z-drop their items to mix you up (most characters with items do this).
• Hydrant has 12-13 HP. It can be reflected before it lands and after someone hits it.
• Pac-Man is floaty so we can't get a lot on him (outside maybe down throw double up air).

I'm not sure what else to say since I haven't fought a good Pac-Man. There's a video of 2MC against a pretty good one on Team Edmonton Gamers channel. You might want to look at that.

 

[DJSKRELP]

I don't know anything about Pac-Man setups (beginner or advanced) but a few things to remember:

• Pac's dash attack is weird. It can be interrupted earlier so you have to punish it early or eat a jab/whatever.
• Up-B OOS for Pac-Man is unblockable.
• Side-B is not safe on sheild but it has super armor. If you hit Pac Man before he follows the pellet, you can interrupt the move. The pellet also becomes a food item.
• All of the bonus fruit can be used against him, via reflecting or picking them if you are in the right place. I see a lot of Pac-Men z-drop their items to mix you up (most characters with items do this).
• Hydrant has 12-13 HP. It can be reflected before it lands and after someone hits it.
• Pac-Man is floaty so we can't get a lot on him (outside maybe down throw double up air).

I'm not sure what else to say since I haven't fought a good Pac-Man. There's a video of 2MC against a pretty good one on Team Edmonton Gamers channel. You might want to look at that.

I knew all of that. My main issue is getting something started on him.

 

[MistressRemilia]

I think everyone should be aware of it by now, but if you're forced to go to FD, don't ever let Pac take you to an Omega, especially those with the walls, PacMan becomes very strong with a Key in hand.

Best stages are Smashville, and Lylat can be nice since it can disturb Pac's zoning & we can pressure him on platforms well enough. Neutral is kind of odd vs PacMan, you should be aware that he has a lot of oddly safe stuff, and despite his bad grab, he still has his Frame 1 UpB to beat us shielding. A thing to remember is that we're a bit better than him in the aerial departure: Trades are always better for us, or we outframedata him well enough, depending of his option. Don't be surprised if PacMan gets a good amount of time to charge his fruits: W/out platforms, our options to beat someone who's above us are not the best, just don't over commit if he has a powerful fruit ready to be used, because he may rack up damage quick on you.

Always DI away of his dash attack, he has nasty setups if you don't. Speaking of which, it's pretty difficult to reliably answer to PacMan using DA cauz it's decently safe & he has Reverse Fruit & other stuff that he can do & that can screw our punishes, so depending of his options ( if he has a strong fruit ready ) , you may not want to commit to an out of shield, as he may reverse neutral b or some **** like that, make sure to mix up your options out of shield well, otherwise he may be able to catch you on both overcommitments or too much safety.

Reminder that he has a Frame 3 Nair, if he goes for it too often, you can just fastfall at the end of some b&b sh*t like dthrow to pp bair or uair depending of the situation, fastfall the aerial and catch him with an upsmash or a regrab.

Speaking of mixups, if you see an opponent jump too often, i strongly advice you to use FThrow to DJ Fair at MidHigh%. It's a very strong mixup that may earn you an early kill on stages with low ceiling given that our Fair is super powerful.

 

[DJSKRELP]

How do you deal with an aggressive falcon?

 

[MistressRemilia]

How do you deal with an aggressive falcon?

Don't overcommit, at all.
Falcon's punish game is among the best in the game & his physics allow him to punish moves that no other characters can punish, even a poorly used pill at the wrong range or mistimed UpSmash to catch his landing may lead to a punish. What you want to do is focus around the uses of SH FF Bairs & occasionally Uairs, as well as Nair to mix it up. Very occasionally Pills for the sake of harassment, but that's only on the wider stages, and ONLY at long range.

Mixing up your options in disadvantage state ( When Falcon dthrows you, or you're offstage, or any kind of situation that is bad for you ) is mandatory, otherwise, you won't survive against a good Falcon, as he is probably the best character at capitalizing on repeated habits., with tools such as Knee & his strong DownAir Spike.

Hopefully for us, his disadvantage state & combo food nature allow us to apply almost as much pressure on him: At mid%, you may want to start considering combos that will end with Falcon offstage, and you being in position to edgegurd him. Its as necessary as it gets to notice any poor habits in Falcon's play, because it will surely allow for some early kills, given that, with the right read, you can get Falcon into nasty situations, such as recovering low, which is a free dropzone nair or reverse upb edgeguard for us.

That doesn't mean you have to focus on getting your combo starters: As i said, if you're starting to get a bit too greedy in any way, Falcon may have a way to punish you, and at worst, finish the stock with an early kill.

 

[DJSKRELP]

Don't overcommit, at all.
Falcon's punish game is among the best in the game & his physics allow him to punish moves that no other characters can punish, even a poorly used pill at the wrong range or mistimed UpSmash to catch his landing may lead to a punish. What you want to do is focus around the uses of SH FF Bairs & occasionally Uairs, as well as Nair to mix it up. Very occasionally Pills for the sake of harassment, but that's only on the wider stages, and ONLY at long range.

Mixing up your options in disadvantage state ( When Falcon dthrows you, or you're offstage, or any kind of situation that is bad for you ) is mandatory, otherwise, you won't survive against a good Falcon, as he is probably the best character at capitalizing on repeated habits., with tools such as Knee & his strong DownAir Spike.

Hopefully for us, his disadvantage state & combo food nature allow us to apply almost as much pressure on him: At mid%, you may want to start considering combos that will end with Falcon offstage, and you being in position to edgegurd him. Its as necessary as it gets to notice any poor habits in Falcon's play, because it will surely allow for some early kills, given that, with the right read, you can get Falcon into nasty situations, such as recovering low, which is a free dropzone nair or reverse upb edgeguard for us.

That doesn't mean you have to focus on getting your combo starters: As i said, if you're starting to get a bit too greedy in any way, Falcon may have a way to punish you, and at worst, finish the stock with an early kill.

Thanks, this helps a lot.

 

[Thinktron]

Honestly Its a shame i think Is the character with the least active players on this site, so Naturally all his boards are very empty

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Honestly Its a shame i think Is the character with the least active players on this site, so Naturally all his boards are very empty

Eh most of smashboards threads seem empty in general to me

 

[Coolwhip]

Do anyone knows the Roy match up, oh and what stage to take him on?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do anyone knows the Roy match up, oh and what stage to take him on?

Shielding and crouching are really good vs Roy, he eats fastfaller combos, D-air destroys his Up-B.

Normally I don't recommend platform stages, but they're decent vs Roy given his U-air isn't a kill move and he really wants you to airdodge next to him in order to get kills. That being said, you can do the D-throw F-air F-smash frametrap on him if there's no platforms nearby.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I doubt Roy can make great use of the platforms anyway, given his insanely fast fall speed + average jump height. Shielding is really good (playing patiently against a fast but unsafe character is a good idea), considering that he doesn't have the huge disjoints nor the safety to just throw out aerials.

 

[Coolwhip]

Thanks dudes!

 

[---]

http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-discussion-vs-mario-dr-mario.417710/

The M2 board is looking at the Doc next as well as reflecting a bit on last night's Top 8. We would appreciate any insight or opinions in regards to both him or regular Mario.

 

[Strong-Arm]

So what are the thoughts on the Sheik MU now that shes been nerfed for a while

 

[Coolwhip]

So what are the thoughts on the Sheik MU now that shes been nerfed for a while

Sheik still is in favor of the match up, but winnable for Doc. Sheik's speed and mobility can give Doc a headache, but if Doc gets in (Close range combat) he can do massive damage due to his damage output. Also, Sheik's weight makes it fairly EZ to ko her early. Nothing scary than a Dr. Mario player in rage mode against any character in the game.

 

[Harmonious]

Anybody have any tips on how to fight Greninja? Especially the ones that zone you out with shuriken regardless of cape?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Anybody have any tips on how to fight Greninja? Especially the ones that zone you out with shuriken regardless of cape?

I don't know how that happens. If they don't stop zoning, time your Sheets better so that they get discouraged from throwing it out.

General advice.

• Power shield a lot. His Shirukens, his Fair, his Nair, etc.
• If you can predict which Shiruken the Greninja is about to do, use Sheet.
• Bair can nullify baby Shirukens (I think). Bair is good in general.
• Try not to stand under Greninja unless you know how he's going to land. Up Smash can punish landings.
• Space around his Nair.
• Do not shield his Dair. If you predict a dair, spotdodge and punish.
• Greninja can escape pressure with his Side B. Try to bait it out if you see them doing it.
• Be wary when coming back onto the stage. Greninja can push people away with his Up-B. It's a free stock for him when done right.
• If you want to camp, use pill to nullify baby Shirukens.
• Down-B is good at dealing with pressure, but it's very punishable. Still, it's a very nice option for contesting moves, and beating rolls and spotdodges.

 

[Harmonious]

I don't know how that happens. If they don't stop zoning, time your Sheets better so that they get discouraged from throwing it out.

General advice.

• Power shield a lot. His Shirukens, his Fair, his Nair, etc.
• If you can predict which Shiruken the Greninja is about to do, use Sheet.
• Bair can nullify baby Shirukens (I think). Bair is good in general.
• Try not to stand under Greninja unless you know how he's going to land. Up Smash can be punish landings.
• Space around his Nair.
• Do not shield his Dair. If you predict a dair, spotdodge and punish.
• Greninja can escape pressure with his Side B. Try to bait it out if you see them doing it.
• Be wary when coming back onto the stage. Greninja can push people away with his Up-B. It's a free stock for him when done right.
• If you want to camp, use pill to nullify baby Shirukens.
• Down-B is good at dealing with pressure, but it's very punishable. Still, it's a very nice option for contesting moves, and beating rolls and spotdodges.

Thanks, this actually helps. As for getting zoned out even with cape, there was a specific Greninja I faced that would start charging shuriken, wait for the cape he knew was coming, then release. So, lotsa bait I kept falling for xP

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Thanks, this actually helps. As for getting zoned out even with cape, there was a specific Greninja I faced that would start charging shuriken, wait for the cape he knew was coming, then release. So, lotsa bait I kept falling for xP

No problem.

Yeah, people tend to do the same things over and over again, and you don't always expect it. It happens at any level of play. Even people who try to cover the ledge with a fully charged projectile against Mario/Doc forget that ledge drop -> double jump -> Cape/Sheet is a thing.

 

[R. E. B]

I think lucina-doc match up is favorable towards lucina, like a 60-40 match up, because whenever i face lucina it is always a close match but lucina always somehow always makes it out on top.

 

[Harmonious]

I think lucina-doc match up is favorable towards lucina, like a 60-40 match up, because whenever i face lucina it is always a close match but lucina always somehow always makes it out on top.

After playing a good amount of Marcinas, I'd have to disagree and say it's 55/45, Marcina's favor. The main issue in that matchup is getting outranged/zoned out, but that's easily remedied by playing with your back to your opponent so that bair can punish anything the Marcina tries to do.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

"Always making it out on top" is not a valid reason. Talk about the characters' options. -_-

Marcina vs Doc is 55/45 (their favour) in my opinion. Marth in particular can keep Doc out very well not just because of the range, but because his Tippers make him significantly safer on shield. Fair is 6 frames, has great range and is really strong when Tippered. Thankfully, the sourspots are fairly unsafe, we can pressure them up close and we can still juggle them somewhat.

Dolphin Slash is not easy to edgeguard with or to trade with and hits well below the ledge. You have to read it and then use Sheet. Dolphin Slash is also a very fast OOS option and fairly strong combo breaker that you have to be wary about.

 

[Doc Mario]

Anyone else use the "Bait + Punish" Playstyle for Doc? http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/logo2/Dr. Mario.png I mean I see most people try to play him offensively when I think he works better defensively. Using bait tactics or waiting for your opponents to approach you make a ton of matchups much more doable. He has terrible mobility (running slower than King Dedede in fact) and short range so I feel like the combination of those things make his approach terrible but hey, that's just me.

ANYWAY! Anyone familiar with the Dr. Mario vs Rob matchup? Yesterday I got zoned out like hell against a Rob and had a hard ass time approaching him. It felt disgusting like there was nothing I could really do, pills are to laggy, speed is terrible, running up and shielding didn't help much since it seemed like no way to properly punish the Nair he kept spamming. The only thing I could really do is Super Sheet, grab the gyro thing and use it against him mostly with Z-drops. Any suggestions for this truly annoying matchup? Or Am I just feeling too pressured when I play against Rob as Doc?

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Anyone else use the "Bait + Punish" Playstyle for Doc? http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/logo2/Dr. Mario.png I mean I see most people try to play him offensively when I think he works better defensively. Using bait tactics or waiting for your opponents to approach you make a ton of matchups much more doable. He has terrible mobility (running slower than King Dedede in fact) and short range so I feel like the combination of those things make his approach terrible but hey, that's just me.

ANYWAY! Anyone familiar with the Dr. Mario vs Rob matchup? Yesterday I got zoned out like hell against a Rob and had a hard *** time approaching him. It felt disgusting like there was nothing I could really do, pills are to laggy, speed is terrible, running up and shielding didn't help much since it seemed like no way to properly punish the Nair he kept spamming. The only thing I could really do is Super Sheet, grab the gyro thing and use it against him mostly with Z-drops. Any suggestions for this truly annoying matchup? Or Am I just feeling too pressured when I play against Rob as Doc?

Yeah, we can shield camp a lot of stuff because our out of shield options are awesome. Our Sheet has fairly low commitment as well. I think Doc's bad matchups are characters that don't particularly care about shield camping (particularly via silly disjoints). This is why I don't think he does poorly against projectile characters, because I don't see how they can easily counter shield camping.

As for ROB, I don't see why we should approach him. Just camp him, use Sheet, hold on to his Gyro if you can, bait him with bairs and, most importantly, remain patient. How is he going to approach you? Try to powershield his Nair then grab him, or just Up Smash.