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"Chills of the Fever" - Dr. Mario Matchup Discussion

Dr.M44

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bowser has really good spacing tools but once Doc get's in booza is takin some damage

I've started to notice that in most matches walling your opponent out with sh bairs is very effective due to its low ending lag
and makes your opponent think before they do anything giving you an opportunity to mix up when you stop doing bairs and go in for a grab or something

in addition I think us Doc mains should be more liberal with upb OOS due to its great kill power and quick escape from pressure, just don't get predictable with it

btw I have some combo videos I would love to share with you guys that really improved my Doc game, but first I need to get 10 messages before the site lets me do that

oh has anyone noticed that unlike Mario Doc CANNOT throw 2 pills before having to land, Mario jumps higher so he can do a fullhop fireball then jump to throw out a second fireball. Doc doesn't jump as high so he can only throw 1 pill before landing to the ground. BUT if you jump from the ledge, there is enough height for Doc to be able to throw 2 pills like Mario with his fireballs. which I find to be great at pressuring opponents

Also guys I've been noticing mostly online that a lot of doc players seem to forget that Doc has a wall jump. there are so many scenarios where I have seen a Doc panic when they get too low to the bottom of the stage and just upb, completely forgetting that they could have used the wall to recover. we need to keep calm when we're offstage even though our recovery isn't optimal. I mean damn I've even seen little mac players use the wall (lol they still don't make it but at least they try :D)

ok guys im off to go post some clips I found on youtube of Doc since I finally got 10 posts I hope they help your Doc game like they did mine
 
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Gunla

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Please don't post multiple times in a row in a thread, as it violates the Terms of Service.
 

Randy411

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My advice against Bowser? Shower the big fatty in pills and try to cape his recovery.
 

MarioMeteor

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My advice against Bowser? Shower the big fatty in pills and try to cape his recovery.
Actually, don't. If I remember correctly, Whirling Fortress has a brief flash of invincibility just as the move starts, so Caping isn't recommended.
 

Kisatamura

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Restarting topic, as we're going back to Mario with customs. For the uninitated...
While I wanted to do a write up on Bowser and also play a couple matches against somebody on the Bowser board, I think that restarting from the Mario MU with customs is a good idea. For right now, I'll consider the Bowser MU 60:40 in :4drmario:'s favor. While Bowser has a neutral presence, he's either gonna have to commit to moves like Ftilt for poking which are unsafe. Doc can throw pills and has more combos than Bowser. Bowser's SideB customs should make the MU less in Doc's favor: they give Bowser a quick way to close the gap.

Alongside starting from the beginning with customs, I'd also like to change my MU score for vs :4peach: to be 40:60 in her favor. I think the current one (45:55) is a tad bit even. Luigi should still be the same, though we'll see depending on his customs. As a side note, when we get past Bowser with customs, I'll still do the 1111 set for characters we haven't done yet.

To start, Mario shares Doc's customs, except for DownB/FLUDD. For his FLUDD, he has Scalding FLUDD, which deals damage, and the High Pressure FLUDD, which does more knockback in exchange for a longer charge time. Which Mario customs do you think change the MU to some extent?
 

MarioMeteor

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HP F.L.U.D.D. and Gust Cape combined is a combination Doc does not like at all. Super Jump will ensure that Mario himself will always make it back on stage. Unless you have Soaring Tornado, which, in my opinion, completely changes the game because it pretty much neutralizes all of Mario's recovery options. Other than that, Doc and Mario read from the same playbook. Like the matchup without customs it really just comes down to who plays better. Mario has the F.L.U.D.Ds with the high pressure and the whatnot and Doc has the Tornados with the Soaring and the whatnot. If you ask me, the Tornado is more useful so I'd say either 55:45:4drmario: or 50:50.
 

HeroMystic

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I'm not gonna provide ratio input, but Mario would definitely use Scalding vs Doc. Not HP FLUDD.
 

HeroMystic

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You think so? Care to explain?
Scalding FLUDD is too good on Mario to waste a custom on HP FLUDD, which to be frank is just a gimmick. HP FLUDD takes 5 seconds to charge to full, lacks the angling control of Default FLUDD, and is only really useful for edgeguarding (Default FLUDD is much better for combating stage control).

Scalding FLUDD not only deals damage, but it combos into grabs, DA, and aerials, and it kill confirms into JCR U-Smash. It's also safe on block, and completely outranges Doc (and a large amount of the roster). It can even mess up recoveries and lead into capes or run-off F-airs. I should also add it's transcendent as well, so it cannot be clanked, making this even better. The 2.5 second charge time is also very good for constant use, so aerial approaches are much harder on Mario overall, giving him a much stronger neutral game.
 
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KenMeister

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So from recent experience, is it safe to say that Ness is an AWFUL matchup for Doc? There's like no safe way to get in without getting interrupted by nair or bair, and his small size makes me unable to pressure him without getting shieldgrabbed hard. :(
 

MarioMeteor

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So from recent experience, is it safe to say that Ness is an AWFUL matchup for Doc? There's like no safe way to get in without getting interrupted by nair or bair, and his small size makes me unable to pressure him without getting shieldgrabbed hard. :(
Awful, no. Unfavorable, maybe.
Scalding FLUDD is too good on Mario to waste a custom on HP FLUDD, which to be frank is just a gimmick. HP FLUDD takes 5 seconds to charge to full, lacks the angling control of Default FLUDD, and is only really useful for edgeguarding (Default FLUDD is much better for combating stage control).

Scalding FLUDD not only deals damage, but it combos into grabs, DA, and aerials, and it kill confirms into JCR U-Smash. It's also safe on block, and completely outranges Doc (and a large amount of the roster). It can even mess up recoveries and lead into capes or run-off F-airs. I should also add it's transcendent as well, so it cannot be clanked, making this even better. The 2.5 second charge time is also very good for constant use, so aerial approaches are much harder on Mario overall, giving him a much stronger neutral game.
Really, now? Well, I'll be damned, I never really gave S. FLUDD a second look in favor of HP. I might have to experiment with it. That's, of course, not to discredit High-Pressure, because make no mistake, while its uses are limited compared to its competition, what it does, it does well. It's the only one of the FLUDDs to actually aid Mario's recovery, if need be. I think High-Pressure does its job well. An extreme FLUDD. More work, more payoff.
 

A2ZOMG

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So from recent experience, is it safe to say that Ness is an AWFUL matchup for Doc? There's like no safe way to get in without getting interrupted by nair or bair, and his small size makes me unable to pressure him without getting shieldgrabbed hard. :(
Nah, I think Doc goes even at worst in this matchup. Pills force Ness to be proactive and your SH B-air outtrades Ness really hard and has good range. Doc's SH is low enough that Ness HAS to respect this in neutral given it's one of few SH spacing aerials that Ness doesn't randomly duck under.

As for custom Mario vs custom Doc I'm guessing it's probably even. Doc's D-air edgeguard is really good against Mario's low recovery, given it will spike Mario on a trade, and Doc can go pretty deep vertically when running Soaring Tornado. Doc however has to respect Scalding FLUDD given he has no really quick way to punish this significantly most of the time.

Dunno about Cape options, though I assume Shocking is probably the best one for both Mario and Doc in this matchup because the disjoint is just really valuable against most of their preferred spacing tools. Both however are going to run default Up-B because the 3 frame reversal is a bit too good to pass up.
 
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TheBlueSpirit

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I think Scalding and High Pressure F.L.U.D.D. are both potentially dangerous to Doc, but at the same time have ways to avoid them for specific situations. Logically I would see Gust Cape being a reason to not use High Pressure and go for Scalding as a completely alternate advantage instead of having two moves that absolutely rek people who are recovering

As for Ness, my experiences against Ness players has been more in my favor because of pill/bair spacing. Not to mention Doc isn't unable to kill just as early as Ness, in fact he can even earlier with good punishes.
 
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Kisatamura

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Ness should be at least even since both characters have short range but powerful upclose games. I'm not sure if Tornado or bair can beat out Ness's nair, but UpB or nair can be used to get out of his fair strings. Doc's Uair can be used to approach from below vs Ness, failing that you can throw pills to cover or force an approach.

Mario's Scalding FLUDD is better IMO since Doc wants to recover up high to avoid getting gimped. Scalding FLUDD's reduced range means nothing against Doc.
 

KenMeister

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Ness should be at least even since both characters have short range but powerful upclose games. I'm not sure if Tornado or bair can beat out Ness's nair, but UpB or nair can be used to get out of his fair strings. Doc's Uair can be used to approach from below vs Ness, failing that you can throw pills to cover or force an approach.

Mario's Scalding FLUDD is better IMO since Doc wants to recover up high to avoid getting gimped. Scalding FLUDD's reduced range means nothing against Doc.
Nair trades are unfavorable for us (faster than our bair and does 11%'s worth of damage), and fair is disjointed, so we don't beat it. I've tried. Never thought about upB though, but that seems super risky...

I dunno, while admittingly I'm someone who struggles under pressure, character design alone just prevents me from writing this off as even. It's probably 55-45 Ness.

Anyhoo, straying away from my negative thoughts on that match, I feel like one top tier we actually do well against is Pikachu. I don't feel like his projectiles pose much of a threat, and we have a much better ground game than Pika does, meaning when we get close we don't have to worry about getting outboxed. We also have the OoS options to tolerate his annoying shield pressure options, so Doc doesn't get wrecked by Pika's neutral (if much at all) nearly as bad as other characters.
 
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Ffamran

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Crossposting this from the Mario boards.

Hello, everyone. Here to let you guys know that the Mewtwo MU thread is discussing Mario this week. Hopefully this place isn't too dead to contribute. I understand Mewtwo is a character not many have experience with outside of FG so it'll mostly be impressions without too much depth to go off of. Regardless, anything is appreciated.

:4mewtwo: <- Click to Teleport to the MU thread.

By extension, we'll be discussing Doc as well. Not sure how it'll go in terms of activity but worth a shot. Let's get all 3 Doc mains talking.
 

TheBlueSpirit

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Crossposting this from the Mario boards.

Hello, everyone. Here to let you guys know that the Mewtwo MU thread is discussing Mario this week. Hopefully this place isn't too dead to contribute. I understand Mewtwo is a character not many have experience with outside of FG so it'll mostly be impressions without too much depth to go off of. Regardless, anything is appreciated.

:4mewtwo: <- Click to Teleport to the MU thread.

By extension, we'll be discussing Doc as well. Not sure how it'll go in terms of activity but worth a shot. Let's get all 3 Doc mains talking.
I know for a fact there's more than 3 of us but yeah I get what you mean. I don't know much about mewtwo but maybe I'll talk a bit
 
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Kisatamura

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We're restarting the discussion on the Luigi MU, and also Luigi with customs.

Here are my old notes, feel free to discuss about the MU, especially with customs.
This is late I know, but still:

Matchup: Vs Luigi



I'll be quick here since most of the discussion on Luigi was already explained. I might update this later though.

Attributes: Luigi has one of the highest jumps in the game, a relatively faster dash than Doc, one of the worst air speeds in the game, and his trademark traction. Luigi's air speed helps us edgeguard him if he's knocked offstage. Luigi weighs in at 97, being very slightly below Mario and Dr. Mario.

Notes: In neutral, remember that if Luigi is using bair, nair, or uair to approach, he has to commit to those moves since they lack the quick ending lag of dair and fair. However, if Luigi doesn't autocancel any of his aerials not named bair or nair, he'll be stuck in landing lag. Punish him there. His bair is as strong as yours, but is very punishable if Luigi misses or is blocked.

Generally, Luigi has a better rushdown game than Mario and you. Don't give him the chance to throw you: If you get thrown, DI towards Luigi to avoid Dairs or any other setup (Not really avoiding, but reducing his potential followups).

I mentioned earlier that some Luigis think that Dthrow to Fair x2 is a true combo. It isn't at low percents, so UpB if they get greedy but be aware it's a true combo later on. Dthrow to fair to uair is a true combo, however. Also try to tech dair if he spikes you onstage, because dair can lead into other attacks.

As HeroMystic pointed out though, you need to watch out for Cyclone gimps, usually setup by Dthrow. Just don't get thrown near the edge, and try to DI towards Luigi in that case.

Luigi's kill moves are like yours. Bair is like yours, but way riskier if it misses. Nair is guaranteed from Dthrow, but it has to be fresh and around 160.

Luigi Offstage:

If Luigi is edgeguarding you, then try to avoid his bair and other aerial attacks. He might use Cyclone to read your airdodges however, so I'll need more testing on recovering on Luigi. Possibly you can trade with Luigi on Cyclone, but remember that the Cyclone gimp is followed by any of Luigi's attacks, not by strictly Dthrow. (Or at least that video shows)

Luigi's recovery is pretty varied. While his low airspeed can be a hindrance, Luigi is gifted with long, floaty jumps. Cyclone can be used after a double jump or mashed on it's own to greatly increase Luigi's vertical distance. Green Missile is used for horizontal movement, though it can misfire 1/10 in this game. Super Jump Punch is low priority, and moves Luigi up without any horizontal movement, but can sweetspot the ledge either way.

When you have Luigi offstage, it's easier. Despite his good recovery, he lacks high priority moves to discourage you from attacking him. You can always cape the Luigi Missile, but for Cyclone out of jump, watch for when Luigi is done spinning, and hit him with any move of your choice, preferably Tornado.

Securing the KO:

When Luigi's near the kill percents, here's what you can do.

Bair: The quickest, but don't forget that Luigi's bair is much like yours except it ends much later than yours.

Tornado: Offstage, Luigi is vulnerable to this move. Take out his low priority recovery and send him away!

Any other stuff (Smashes, UpB, etc): Always try to send Luigi at a horizontal angle. This'll force the Luigi to use his Cyclone to recover from below, and he's incredibly vulnerable after Cyclone ends. Luigi using Green Missile to recover horizontally is easily reacted to, though you'll just have to hope they don't get the misfire.

Tldr: Doc has better neutral than Luigi who has to wade in and out. Though, Luigi is better upclose and that Cyclone gimp

My Opinion: 40:60 or 45:55 being generous, since Luigi can kill us quicker near the edge than we can, though Luigi is pretty vulnerable recovering too. We need to focus on making sure Luigi makes mistakes while approaching since his neutral is iffy.

General Opinion: 40:60 - 45:55

Moves to look out for:

DThrow: This is self-explanatory. Luigi's throw is at a fixed knockback unlike Mario and Doc's, so he'll always get combos. Needless to say, just make sure he doesn't grab you in the first place or else you'll be subject to a million followups. If you get grabbed DI towards Luigi to minimize the amount of followups he can do.

Bair: Same deal as Mario and yours, but Luigi's can kill like Doc's, though it's ending lag in the air is atrocious. Anytime he misses this or is blocked, punish him. Please.

Fair: Luigi has really fast ending lag after this, not mention it knocks you away. Use something like bair or Tornado to stop it. As a side note, if the Luigi screws up and this is not autocanceled, punish Luigi.

Dair: Luigi's meteor is worth looking at for several reasons. It has really fast ending lag, so Luigi can spike you onstage and immediately followup afterwards. The second use is the other hitbox where you get sent at a diagonal angle. Pretty much you'll need to stop Luigi from using this when he's ready to kill. An USmash from below can sometimes hit Luigi, but you'll need to be away from Luigi in order to knock him out of dair. Once again, if Luigi lands without autocanceling you'll need to punish him immediately.

Nair: Luigi's sex kick is one of the strongest in the game, and sends you at a vertical angle, prime for juggling. Most Luigis will try to use it as an KO option at high percents because Boss likes to do that. Either way, KOs by nair will usually be setup by Dthrow. Because it'll usually be used for fishing for KOs, you should try to DI so that Luigi's nair will miss.

Smash attacks (Namely FSmash and DSmash): While FSmash is low ranged, it's great for KOing. DSmash isn't as powerful as FSmash, but it's incredibly fast and sends the opponent at a diagonal angle. Block this and punish Luigi.

Fireball: Luigi has a rare case of using a projectile that has little commitment to it. While it's not incredibly great, it can be used to annoy and pester you. Either way, because of it's horizontal movement Luigi can use fireballs to block a section of the stage. If you want to get creative, use your pills from a full jump so that they force Luigi to avoid it, hopefully making him move to you, but in neutral where he has to commit to something.

Green Missile: Luigi's side recovery has low priority and is easily caped. Tornado it, bair it, cape it, whatever you want. If they get the misfire.. prepare for it via cape or spotdodge.

Super Jump Punch: While Luigi can sometimes combo into it from Dthrow, this is mainly dependent on the opponent's DI. Either way, nobody likes dying from a Fire Jump Punch so try to DI away so that Luigi can't get the sweetspot. Really, you'll see this if Luigi is really upclose and you've messed up.

Luigi Cyclone: Cyclone is really something. It acts like a laggier but more maneuverable version of your Tornado, but offstage it can be used to gimp depending on the character's weight and floatiness. On stage, Luigi may use this as a surprise movement option. If that's the case, block it because when Luigi is done with the move, you have a lot of time to punish him.

Offstage though, Cyclone can gimp. Really, the ways you can avoid this tend to be either recovering high so that Luigi has to catch you, or using a combo breaker to avoid Luigi setting up this move.

When used for recovery, it can be mashed to gain some pretty big height. However, Luigi has to commit to this move when recovering so when it ends, Luigi is bait to edgeguarding.
 

A2ZOMG

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Initial impressions for me is that Luigi wins 55/45 due to his superior combo game.

This is a matchup where you want to D-tilt a LOT imo. Timed right you can outspace both his Dashgrab and DA reliably, and while crouching he has a hard time hitting you with F-air. Reflecting his fireballs is good as it forces him to slow down at the very least.

When juggling Luigi, don't go for more than one U-air out of D-throw generally speaking. Better yet, focus more on following his landing and timing U-smash.
 

Ridel

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With customs in consideration the Luigi MU may actually make a slight shift to Doc's favor or at worst it's even. Doc's Fast Pills can completely negate both his default Fireball and his Iceball so that gets rid of his signature option in neutral. Soaring Tornado and Gust Cape can greatly assist in gimping Luigi's fairly linear recovery, though I'm not sure if Luigi has any customs that can work around this. Gust Cape alone can make a Luigi player fear of using his Side-B to extend his recovery. Though what @ A2ZOMG A2ZOMG said still holds true in the MU so I would say that the match-up with customs is 55:45 in Doc's favor or 50:50.
 

Kisatamura

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Sorry for the late reply on Luigi, but I wanted to mention that Luigi's version of the Soaring Tornado (I think it's called Soaring Cyclone or something) is a bit different compared to Doc's:

It seems that both characters use their DownB data for their custom moves. So with regular specials, Doc's Dr. Tornado has strong diagonal knockback on the last hit, while Luigi's Cyclone has strong vertical knockback instead. So with Soaring Tornado and Soaring Cyclone, both characters use their hitbox data but with more damage instead.

However, Doc's regular Tornado has some funky attack data to where the move can kill really early if increased: which causes those early KOs near the edge with Soaring Tornado, which inflates the damage. On the other hand, Luigi's Soaring Cyclone has a damage increase, but the knockback on regular Cyclone is different from Dr. Mario, where it has a different formula or less knockback growth? Either way, despite Soaring Cyclone being similar to Soaring Tornado, it kills later than Doc's DownB (Though it still is a really strong attack either way).
 

Eight_SixtyFour

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Mach Cyclone.

Interesting. I was always under the impression that Doc and Luigi's default Down-B's were vastly different whilst their custom variants were very similar. Maybe I need to try them out again. Thought Mach Cyclone's knockback was horizontal?
 

Kisatamura

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Mach Cyclone (thanks for the correction) does have horizontal knockback, but less growth at higher percents than Dr. Mario's.
 

CasteHappy//

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(probably bad english below)
For my experience against Luigis, tilts help A LOT. Luigi's neutral is basically fireballs and grabs, cape is not always a good option because he can spam as much as he wants, so it's better to stay at a safe distance and throw some pills, or just powershield them. When he's going for grabs, Ftilt works great against Luigi because he will slide back a good amount of distance ( from 0 to 70% only, then he gets launched. Also Nair, but that's a free upsmash for him if it gets blocked ), if he blocks it, go for jab 1 and 2 since it's the fastest option ( at high percent, you can go for upB instead, but it's risky and he can finish your stock or get a huge combo out of it) Luigi gets into the air a few inches from the ground after hitting Jab 1 - 2, so you can go for Jab > Jab > Dtilt, Jab > Jab > UpB, or just the 3 hit jab. Dtilt is also a good option instead of Ftilt, but it sends luigi upwards and he can jump back or throw out Nair to stop Doc.
That's how I think the neutral works.

When getting grabs, always go for 1 UpAir only ( Dthrow ), or wait on shield and shieldgrab his Nair, Luigis are too confident about that move. Doing Dthrow > Full jump UpAir, can be a good setup if they throw out Nair or airdodge, but also risky, with bad spacing he can just hit you back. Also, trade Nair with UpSmash if you have the lead.
 

TheBlueSpirit

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One thing about this matchup is that Doc can really mess up Luigi's recovery if done correctly, but at the same time one good aerial from Luigi can pretty much take a stock from you in that same sense.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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To all Dr. Marios out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Dr. Mario. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Dr. Mario match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/406327/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/
 

kacol321

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Hi i'm new here (as in i made an account yesterday) but i too am a doc main. I would just like to point out that the matchups againts fast fallers (even if it isnt in doc's favor) still has its easy points. Not only because of how easy and fun it is to combo them, but also (since they take less vertical knockback) doc has an easier time KOing them compared to other characters because all his KO options are off the side. Even since his up smash has a diagonal trajectory (but its not a very reliable KO option, more of a combo finisher/anti air). I just thought that was a thing to think about when comparing doc's MU against fast fallers with mario's MU against fast fallers.

Anyways i think thats a pretty good segway into talking about the greninja matchup. Im not really sure about this one but my initial thought that it's in doc's favor since, greninja is a fast faller, doc has the cape for gren's recovery/ neutral b, or a fair if you get a good read on shadow sneak recovery. Also in neutral doc can cape gren's neutral b and cant get punished for it and can force greninja to approach. But one of his approaches is nair which doc can outspace with bair. So yeah that's my input :)
 

MonkeyArms

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MrCheeseburger7
(probably bad english below)
For my experience against Luigis, tilts help A LOT. Luigi's neutral is basically fireballs and grabs, cape is not always a good option because he can spam as much as he wants, so it's better to stay at a safe distance and throw some pills, or just powershield them. When he's going for grabs, Ftilt works great against Luigi because he will slide back a good amount of distance ( from 0 to 70% only, then he gets launched. Also Nair, but that's a free upsmash for him if it gets blocked ), if he blocks it, go for jab 1 and 2 since it's the fastest option ( at high percent, you can go for upB instead, but it's risky and he can finish your stock or get a huge combo out of it) Luigi gets into the air a few inches from the ground after hitting Jab 1 - 2, so you can go for Jab > Jab > Dtilt, Jab > Jab > UpB, or just the 3 hit jab. Dtilt is also a good option instead of Ftilt, but it sends luigi upwards and he can jump back or throw out Nair to stop Doc.
That's how I think the neutral works.

When getting grabs, always go for 1 UpAir only ( Dthrow ), or wait on shield and shieldgrab his Nair, Luigis are too confident about that move. Doing Dthrow > Full jump UpAir, can be a good setup if they throw out Nair or airdodge, but also risky, with bad spacing he can just hit you back. Also, trade Nair with UpSmash if you have the lead.
If luigi fishes for a grab just wall him out with back airs. lol. If he's using fireballs just throw pills over them as they will pretty much go straight to luigi. Another thing you can do is approach with a down air, or if he's using the fireball forward air wall, a dash attack to slide under the forward airs hitbox. F-smash, back air, forward air, and up smash should be safe on his shield to so don't be afraid to throw one of those out too. Make sure you use your nair or up b to combo break him. Luigi is pretty floaty so you should use more aerials on him as opposed to a down throw up air down tilt like I usually do. Don't forget to cape his missile for basically a free kill. If you try to edge guard Luigi usually you should wait for him to recover low and try to get a back air stage spike. When you're recovering, don't be afriad to stop holding towards the stage for a second to avoid an attack.


There you have it, advice from someone who plays both characters.
 

LuigiSmashBros

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
16
I'd say the radio against Luigi is 35:65. Doc has a really poor speed, thus making him easy to combo with DEM down throws. However, Doc has more K.O. power then Green Mario, giving him an advantage power wise. Unfortunately, Luigi has more range than Doc; so I recommend for Doc players to use his longest range moves. Luigi's Up-b can punish Doc pretty easy due to fairly high ending lag.
 
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KenMeister

Smash Lord
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Oct 9, 2014
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KenMeister
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What would be the best roll option?
To punish them? I use Nado or just dash attack them at the end of their roll. Also, can we move on and discuss another character? We've been discussing Luigi for months. Lol
 

Blasterman4

Smash Rookie
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Alright, so hi doc boards! i play link/doc and i absolutely hate the link mirror, how should we be fighting link out of curiousity?
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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Oct 13, 2007
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A2ZOMG
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Alright, so hi doc boards! i play link/doc and i absolutely hate the link mirror, how should we be fighting link out of curiousity?
It's wait for him to do something punishable, juggle him, and edgeguard him, and try to not die to his grab game and juggles. It's a pretty bad matchup overall imo.
 

CasteHappy//

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
79
Location
Spain
( Sorry if I make any English mistakes )

It's hard to tell because a good Olimar will just run away and side b / pivot FSmash and Doc can't chase Olimar with his low speed, so i'ts kinda frustrating. But you can cape both moves and he can die from a reflected FSmash super early.

I've played only a few Olimars, but here's what I think:

He is better on the ground, incredible grab range and killthrow, Dthrow combos, safe Forward Smash, his Up Smash is a great anti-air, Doc struggles a lot at getting the grabs and punishing. Pills are good in this matchup as long as Doc stays away from the Side B range, force Olimar to approach you, getting the grabs and juggles is vital.

Olimar is floaty and easy to juggle, don't let him land. His fastest and most safe aerial (Fair) is slower than Doc's Uair, Bair and Nair. Bair has more range and priority than his Fair so you can just spam it after a throw. Up Air chains are great too, but he can land safely with Nair and combo into Up Tilt if you miss.

Dthrow -> Fair is GUARANTEED from 70% to 86% and he is so dead.

When you are above him, don't waste your second jump and try to land anywhere, mixup your B reversals and jumps and come back to neutral as quickly as possible, sometimes landing with Down B catches people offguard. When Doc is offstage, is better not to recover low, in a disadvantaged position, Olimar can edguard the hell out of Doc, Up B to the ledge as quickly as you can. Recovering high is a better option because you can spam pills and make it an easier path.

Edguarding Olimar is super easy, if he recovers low, anything will do the job. Reverse Up B and Down B can eat his recovery at any %, and they kill early. Pills can get some nice % but they are not that helpful, Late Nair is kinda risky at low % but it will send him really far away at higher % and force him to Up B again and again desperately. Bair offstage can kill, but if the player is smart enough, he will hit you earlier and get a stage spike.

If he recovers high be careful, Olimar can cancel his Up B into aerials so he is kinda unpredictable.
He often tries to relieve pressure offstage by throwing all the pikmins at you, **** that, he is defenseless, but make sure to dodge or reflect any purple pikmin.

Don't get frustrated, stay calm, don't rush and let him approach you. Try different grab setups and use the pills carefully, as soon as he gets 70% Dthrow -> Fair ,and don't waste edgeguard opportunities.

Cape a FSmash and it's game over for him.

Doc should win this one but you need to be perfect and calm.
I'll say it's even but I don't know who has the advantage.
If the Olimar player gets in your head it's 0 - 100
 
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