Characters getting the axe

[The rAt]

Its always nice to return from July 4th pyrotechnics to find a healthy amount of bickering in my abscence

Anyhow, Ryu777 to respond to your comment, the reason I did not include Y. Link in my list is because I really am on the fence with him. I mean, as he is I can see no justification for his inclusion, but if they merged him with WW Link, which is a completely different character (at least visually, if nothing else), and allowed him to function differently from "Adult" Link, he would be essentially a different character with a similar outfit and the same name. Don't get me wrong, I really have few strong inklings (sp?) on his inclusion/disinclusion in general, which as I said, is why I didn't bother to include him.

I suppose I should clarify my position a bit. Aside from my namesake, Falco is the character I use most, and I have suggested many reasons as to why he should be included in the next game, as it is something I care a great deal about. Conversely, I do not see any reason why Pichu or Dr. Mario should return, I feel that both are marginal wastes of space, and that if Nintendo has any reason to cut characters, they should be at the top of the list. The rest of the clones, I do not use, so I have varying degrees of appathy as to their inclusion, or lack thereof. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy their presence, but I am not currently prepared to argue either for their inclusion or their ommission.

However, as I've said before, every clone should be ommitted before they consider ommitting original character builds. Why? Because with enough practice, a Pichu fan could probably play Pikachu. With enough practice, a Falco fan could probably master Fox. Ect. However, if you remove an original character build, you are forcing the players who use that character to master an ENTIRELY different character. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether a clone is more popular than a non-clone, the clone should go first. But then, here's to hoping they only drop a character or two.

Any case, I need to get some writing done, but please try to survive in my abscence

Andy

 

[Espy Rose]

Pikachu is, and always has been, the posterboy of the entire Pokemon Series. He's in SSBB to represent the series, just as Samus represents Metroid, Marth Represents Fire Emblem, and Falcon represents F-Zero. Would you replace C. Falcon with Blood Hawk? Then why would you replace Pkiachu with Pichu?

What everyone seems to forget is that SSBB has a limited amount of space. Sure, wolf Link would be cool to see, but I'm going to restate what I said a while back. SSBB is more than a fighting game. It's fanservice. And because of this, adult Link covers the lLink fans who want to see thier favorite character in the game? Why should they have thier favorite character in twice, when someone else's favorite is omitted all together. For each additional Link put in the game, another character is left out. And that's why I'm against Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and to an extent, Pichu.

EDIT: I should make this clearer. Ami, I'm agreeing with you, and just using your post as backup. I'm not arguing with you. I agree.

Complete agreement.


Also, kaid, on those two pics. They're both blonde, they both have pointy ears, and both are jolly green keebler elf swordsman. Do we honestly need two to respresent the Legend of Zelda franchise? No.

Allow me to reiterate: If they want to expand the LoZ character selection for Brawl, then allow other characters who are more deserving to get the spot (again, Skull Kid and Midna).

Also, kaid quoted my post, and its possible that he did not read the last part of it:

The fact is, they look the same, they sport similar outfits, and finally, they have the same name.

They're the same ****, and we only need one.

 

[kaid]

I must continue to disagree with you, Puffball. While they may sport similar basic outfits, and both have player-selectable names, they look nothing alike. A head the size of a melon, cell shading, and a sword smaller than his oversized head, Vs a realistic, chainmail-armored individual with a longsword and metal shield.

The Hero of Winds and the peasant who actually has common sense would have completely different movesets. COMPLETELY different.

 

[IcEdUp414]

Link and Young Link are the two, Most Diverse clonesets riding on the side of Fox and Falco. Whats the difference between these sets? THINK. Falco's Blast has knockback. Fox's doesn't. Links boomerang is less accurate and fast. Y. Links is like a god **** bullet. Other then that Both Fox,Falco. Link,Y.Link are just about the same. Everyone says, NO, NO, DON'T GET RID OF FALCO BUT GO AHEAD TAKE OUT YOUNG LINK. When in reality when it comes down to the comparing. They are the same. Y. Link's >B happens to be better then Older Links while Falcos Neutral B is Better then Fox's(Depending on who plays the character). So if they keep Falco. Keep Y. Link

 

[xianfeng]

Hmmm... I have an idea. Ax Pikachu instead of Pichu. Pichu is cuter and they could just give him a bit of weight and fix his self damaging, and he'd be like Pikachu.

that is the dumbest post i have ever seen not only is Pikachu the most popular pokemon ever and he is the poster boy for Pokemon but he is already confirmed

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Young Link honestly can't be in unless Twilight Princess has something similiar to OoT's time travel system.

Doc should stay. He's had his own games.

I thought most of the Zelda games revolved around Y.Link, with 'mature' link only being in: OoT, TP, SSB, SSBM. I would prefer CelLink to be put in the game, there are many potential tools from the Zelda games that can be included for "y.Link' to make him completely different from his mature counterpart: such as the Deku leaf, slingshot, mirror shield, hammer, minish cap, Pegasus Boots, Gust Jar... etc.

 

[SipherothXIII]

Man, i wish they wouldn't boot anything. I would prefer if they kept all the characters. yea, maybe modify them, thats fine, but im totally against kicking characters out. The more characters there are, the more u have to work to unlock them. thats one of the most fun aspects of SSB IMO.

 

[Zink]

Going back to the Mdina debate, kaid, in the latest demo of TP Midna would step out of Link's shadow in the "normal" Hyrule and give advice like Navi did.

 

[Espy Rose]

Link and Young Link are the two, Most Diverse clonesets riding on the side of Fox and Falco. Whats the difference between these sets? THINK. Falco's Blast has knockback. Fox's doesn't. Links boomerang is less accurate and fast. Y. Links is like a god **** bullet. Other then that Both Fox,Falco. Link,Y.Link are just about the same. Everyone says, NO, NO, DON'T GET RID OF FALCO BUT GO AHEAD TAKE OUT YOUNG LINK. When in reality when it comes down to the comparing. They are the same. Y. Link's >B happens to be better then Older Links while Falcos Neutral B is Better then Fox's(Depending on who plays the character). So if they keep Falco. Keep Y. Link

See, here's the thing:

Falco and Fox are NOT the same person.

Young Link and Link are the same person.

We don't want two copies of a person in the game, regardless of difference in stats.

I must continue to disagree with you, Puffball. While they may sport similar basic outfits, and both have player-selectable names, they look nothing alike. A head the size of a melon, cell shading, and a sword smaller than his oversized head, Vs a realistic, chainmail-armored individual with a longsword and metal shield.

I must continue to disagree with you, kaid. Even though they sport the similar basic outfits, player-selectable names and such, they look completely alike.

Again, using Mario as an example:

Including a Paper Mario with a large head, differently shaded, or not shaded at all, have a body that's only a quarter of the originals height, vs. a real deal.

It doesn't matter that if Paper Mario was in and had different characteristics. What I'm trying to tell you is that the person is STILL LINK. And being STILL a LINK, he does not need to be in Brawl.

If you continue to support WW Link, then you're eating up and wasting another spot for a more worthy LoZ character.

WW Link does NOT need to be in this game.

 

[BIRDMAN22]

The only clones that should be removed are Y.Link, Doc, and Pichu. Pichu is just not necessary (sorry Pichu fans), there are many many reasons that I will not go into. Doc and Y.Link should go because the are more than just clones, the are duplicate characters. Doc should just be an alternat costume, as stated before. Y.Link shouldn't even be a costume or cell shaded, he just needs to be removed. In anticipation of all the Y.Link supporters that will comment on this let me just say that he is the same character (as far as smash goes) as Link, just younger with more speed and less strength. All the other clones are completely different individuals. Cell shaded or not it's the same character. Yes, most of the Link characters from LOZ are different but that doesn't mean more than one should be included. There are many different ganon's but I don't here anyone saying that there should be two different ones in Brawl because we all know there shouldn't be.

And to all the Roy haters. I don't really like Roy but I will say this. If Isaac (that's his name right?)was in melee as a Marth clone intead of Roy, you would probably be saying that Isaac should be removed and that Roy should be included. Tell me I'm wrong. What makes another FE character "more deserving" outside of personal preference? Like I said I don't really like Roy but feel he should get a new moveset as opposed to being ax'd completely.

Falco should get the rocket launcher I keep seeing him pic'd with, as well as a few new moves.

Ganondorf should get to use his sword for some smash attacks and some different moves.

I'm one the fence about G&W.

 

[Kurizu208]

They should off young link, dr mario, pichu, roy, mew two, and peach. As good as she was in melee she really isnt a required character and could br replaced with a better mario character. besides there is enough mario characters already. also bowsers flag should be the bowser logo instead of the mushroom one.

 

[phish-it]

Falco should get the rocket launcher I keep seeing him pic'd with, as well as a few new moves.

I think short hopped lasers are enough, but short hopped rockets.... don't get me started.

 

[Kurizu208]

I think short hopped lasers are enough, but short hopped rockets.... don't get me started.

Snake will most likely have one so you will have to deal.

 

[IcEdUp414]

See, here's the thing:

Falco and Fox are NOT the same person.

Young Link and Link are the same person.

Young Link and Link are indeed the same person BUT. Just as Fox and Falco, Have different "results"Of certain techniques making them similiar. Falco's blaster has knockback. Fox's doesn't. Y. Links boomerang is Faster and can be aimed more. Links is slower and cant be aimed well. Pretty much the same concept isn't it? The fact is If you think Falco should stay then your basicly saying Y. Link should to. Im no Y. Link player but these are just facts of which my knowledge goes as far as.

 

[kaid]

Going back to the Mdina debate, kaid, in the latest demo of TP Midna would step out of Link's shadow in the "normal" Hyrule and give advice like Navi did.

I do not contest this. I have seen that trailer, too.

HOWEVER, half the game takes pace in the "Twilight Realm," where link gets turned Wolf and Midna rides around on his back. it is THIS combination that I feel is Brawl-worthy.

I must continue to disagree with you, kaid. Even though they sport the similar basic outfits, player-selectable names and such, they look completely alike.

Again, using Mario as an example:

Including a Paper Mario with a large head, differently shaded, or not shaded at all, have a body that's only a quarter of the originals height, vs. a real deal.

It doesn't matter that if Paper Mario was in and had different characteristics. What I'm trying to tell you is that the person is STILL LINK. And being STILL a LINK, he does not need to be in Brawl.

If you continue to support WW Link, then you're eating up and wasting another spot for a more worthy LoZ character.

Wee seem to have different definitions of the words "Same" and "Worthy". I do not see us reaching a resolution until these issues are resolved.

 

[Proteus]

Young Link and Link are indeed the same person BUT. Just as Fox and Falco, Have different "results"Of certain techniques making them similiar. Falco's blaster has knockback. Fox's doesn't. Y. Links boomerang is Faster and can be aimed more. Links is slower and cant be aimed well. Pretty much the same concept isn't it? The fact is If you think Falco should stay then your basicly saying Y. Link should to. Im no Y. Link player but these are just facts of which my knowledge goes as far as.

I think you're missing his point. He's not arguing that they're exactly the same in terms of their moves, but that since they are the same person (Y. Link is just a young version of Link) they shouldn't be in the game together. It's the same argument for removing Doc and Pichu because Doc is Mario and Pichu is a devolved form of Pikachu. Falco and Ganondorf are different characters than Fox and Falcon so they deserve to stay.

Of course, you could argue that since there are about a half dozen different "Links" spread throughout the series that they're actually not the same person. That's getting a bit complicated though.

 

[BIRDMAN22]

Look at it this way. I think what Puffball is getting at is that, in their respective games Falco and Fox fight side by side. Falco may be a clone but he is his own individual. I have only played maybe five of the LOZ games but Y.Link and "grown" Link never fight side by side, one is the childhood version of the other. I get that there are many different LOZ universes but all only have one Link, so the smash universe should only have one Link. No one would want baby mario in the game just like most don't want Doc in brawl because ultimately it's still Mario.

Lets look at Yoshi. Green, Blue, Yellow, and Red are all different costume colors for yoshi in smash but weren't there supposed to be many different yoshis. Yoshi originated in super mario world and, if memory serves me, at the end of the game many colored yoshis hatched from all the eggs you collected after beating the castles.

To be fair, does any Y.Link supporter agree that there should be a blue yoshi in the game that's faster ansd less powerful yet with the exact same moveset? Anybody.......don't be shy.....No, didn't think so, because it would be a waste of a character. Puffball, I'm with you 100%

 

[kaid]

To be fair, does any Y.Link supporter agree that there should be a blue yoshi in the game that's faster ansd less powerful yet with the exact same moveset? Anybody.......don't be shy.....No, didn't think so, because it would be a waste of a character. Puffball, I'm with you 100%

Here we get into the differences between YL and the Hero of Winds. Skull hammer, Deku leaf, Grappling hook, the Wind Waker itself... the Hero of winds would NOT be a clone, nor even a luigification. He would be as different as Captian Falcon and Samus were in SSB64.

 

[icymatt]

My support for Young Link Mach II(AKA Windwaker Link) is flavor: To me, and many people, he is Link, just as much as OoT/TP Link is.

Besides, they really could easily change his moves. He would have the basics (Boomerang, Bombs, and Spin Attack were on my imaginary moveset), but they could be changed to reflect the game he was from (back to my ideal moveset, Spin Attack was no longer a third jump and could be charged, and the boomerang could be charged). His A attacks would most definetly need to be altered, as Link's are made for a slower, more powerful character. YL needs moves that work to his speed.

 

[FlipTroopa]

Wind Waker Link could indeed use his own skills and items. But how original does Sakurai and his team want to be? It's so much easier to just slap on his own versions of the Arrow, Boomerang, Sword Spin, and Bombs than creating four very original moves. If anything, he won't be completely unique, but a Luigified clone. Because even though the Deku Leaf makes for an awesome Forward B, and the Hurricane Spin, albeit just a modified Sword Spin, is a cool Up B, and yeah, he gets other different items as well, he wouldn't play completely different like Falcon to Samus, or Mario to Bowser.

The Grappling Hook DOES make for a better grab, though

 

[BIRDMAN22]

Here we get into the differences between YL and the Hero of Winds. Skull hammer, Deku leaf, Grappling hook, the Wind Waker itself... the Hero of winds would NOT be a clone, nor even a luigification. He would be as different as Captian Falcon and Samus were in SSB64.

In the end, it's still ANOTHER Link. If this is the logic then the should keep Doc and maybe even add paper mario. That's like explaining the difference between fire flower mario and racoon mario. In the end it's STILL mario.

Look, I'm not debating whether ww link should be in the game or not. What I am saying is there should only be one Link. It could very well be his cell shaded counterpart and if that's the case then they should remove older Link. I just feel that if Pichu, Doc, Roy, or even Falco and Ganondorf should be on the chopping block for being clone characters then Y.Link should be pushed one step above them for not only being a clone but for being a duplicate. At least the others are independent characters (except Doc)and not a different version of the same hero. Older Link gets some sort of a pardon because he was in ssb64 and most likely won't be cut anyway.

 

[Kurizu208]

In the end, it's still ANOTHER Link. If this is the logic then the should keep Doc and maybe even add paper mario. That's like explaining the difference between fire flower mario and racoon mario. In the end it's STILL mario.

Look, I'm not debating whether ww link should be in the game or not. What I am saying is there should only be one Link. It could very well be his cell shaded counterpart and if that's the case then they should remove older Link. I just feel that if Pichu, Doc, Roy, or even Falco and Ganondorf should be on the chopping block for being clone characters then Y.Link should be pushed one step above them for not only being a clone but for being a duplicate. At least the others are independent characters (except Doc)and not a different version of the same hero. Older Link gets some sort of a pardon because he was in ssb64 and most likely won't be cut anyway.

I agree with you. It seems people want a super smash zelda game with all LoZ characters then a ssbb with a whole bunch of hcaracters from differnt SERIES. Just cause mario hogs the rooster doesnt mean LoZ should too.

 

[kaid]

In Smash64, Mario and pokemon "hogged the roster" with TWO characters each.

In Melee, Mario had 5 core characters (plus yoshi), LOZ had 4 (plus shiek), and Pokemon had 4... totalling over half the roster.

Expect the trend to continue.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Thanks for stating the obvious, but that doesn't mean we should support something we don't agree with.

 

[kaid]

A little realisim never hurt.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Fair enough, but I think that LoZ should be represented with different characters, not just different variations of Link.

 

[Rash]

If they can pull off Wind Waker Link as a character for SSBB, then that's all I could ask for, moreso than the original Young Link, mask variations (i.e. deku, goron, zora, fierce deity) and any other forms of Link you can think of.

Proper Zelda representation in Super Smash Brothers Brawl would be:

-Link
-WW Link
-Ganondorf
-Zelda/Shiek
-Majora's Mask/Skull Kid
-Vaati (if you replace WW Link or Skull Kid)
-Midna (if you replace WW Link, Skull Kid)

That is all.

 

[Destruction_King]

In Smash64, Mario and pokemon "hogged the roster" with TWO characters each.

In Melee, Mario had 5 core characters (plus yoshi), LOZ had 4 (plus shiek), and Pokemon had 4... totalling over half the roster.

Expect the trend to continue.

That's super. But Luigi and Mario aren't the same character, nor is Jiggs and Pikachu. I don't care if they're from the same series, but they shouldn't be the same person. So yes, 5 Mario characters may have been in SSBM, but Link himself was in the game twice. Maybe Wario, Meta-Knight, and Pit could've been in the last game, but Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and Pichu took thier spots from them. Every additional Link outside of the adult Link who is guarenteed to be in the game is just one more character, one more series that will not be represented in the Smash bros series.

 

[Zink]

I think 2 Links is fine. I don't think we should be worrying too much about slots. I predict 45-50 slots, total. We have Link, Snake, Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, Wario, Pit, and Meta-Knight confirmed. There's plenty of room.

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't think this agrument will be over until after Brawl is released kaid. Until then, I suppose we can slow down on the "One Link Policy".

I still don't want WW Link to be added.

Is that selfish?

Of course, but I'm not the only one...


Rash has the right idea of adding in other LoZ characters.

Also, Destruction King, Proteus, Birdman, Marshigo, and Kurizu....

I freakn' love you.

 

[Black/Light]

Im all for 2 links as long as they are Wolf Link and Midna/ Reg Link. That makes the best choice imo because Wolf Link and Midna are so different and UNIQUE that they make up for him being in twice.

I dont really care if they rep different series as long as they make unique and fun characters from whatever series they take them from.

 

[Destruction_King]

I don't think this agrument will be over until after Brawl is released kaid. Until then, I suppose we can slow down on the "One Link Policy".

I still don't want WW Link to be added.

Is that selfish?

Of course, but I'm not the only one...


Rash has the right idea of adding in other LoZ characters.

Also, Destruction King, Proteus, Birdman, Marshigo, and Kurizu....

I freakn' love you.

Awwwww...

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Oh good, I didn't know how to react from that post you qouted.

 

[Butt Pirate]

If they were gonna put in a Wolf Link from TP, they would probably make it a transformation like Zelda/Sheik. I dont know if someone has already said that cause I didnt read the whole 11 pages but that would be pretty sweet now that I think about it.

 

[kaid]

No.

TP link needs all his projectiles INTACT.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Mom]

No.

TP link needs all his projectiles INTACT.

yes bombs r too important

 

[xianfeng]

I think you're missing his point. He's not arguing that they're exactly the same in terms of their moves, but that since they are the same person (Y. Link is just a young version of Link) they shouldn't be in the game together. It's the same argument for removing Doc and Pichu because Doc is Mario and Pichu is a devolved form of Pikachu. Falco and Ganondorf are different characters than Fox and Falcon so they deserve to stay.

Of course, you could argue that since there are about a half dozen different "Links" spread throughout the series that they're actually not the same person. That's getting a bit complicated though.

pokemon are generic so Pichu isn't Pikachu

 

[toasty4you]

I think that Pichu, Roy, and Young Link should leave. I don't like Roy. Marth is better.

 

[Zink]

I hope everyone knows that as of the last demo Wolf Link has only 1 move. You hold down a button to expand a circle around him, then when you release he auto-dashes to each enemy selected and attacks them.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Overall, Pichu seems like the most likely choice to ax, and why do we need more than one Link?