Characters getting the axe

[Proteus]

Doctor Mario is the same as Mario? Umm...how about not. He's less floaty, , worse recovery, much less abusable fsmash but much more worth it if you hit, mostly unusable dtilit(mario pops for combos), THE PILLS, cape that catches sweetspotters on ledges, different timing and hit boxes on many of his attacks. I could name more, but i've made my point. For people who are good at mario as a main, they can't switch easily to doc and vice versa(as a former doc player who went the mario way, I can attest).

Quite wrong. Mario and Doc are almost identical and it's incredibly easy to switch between them. The biggest change is the fair (Doc's is better). And you invalidated your argument when you hinted that Mario's dtilt is useful. It's not. It's considered one of the worst moves in the game. Doc has no reason to be in SSBB, especially since he's just Mario in a different costume.

 

[Espy Rose]

True, besides, you're not getting OUR point.

Doc and regular Mario are the SAME PERSON. We do not need two Marios in the game.

Simply give Mario some of Doc's strength and heaviness, then make the Doc suit an alternate, then voila, everyone's happy.


By the way, I would LOVE to see Jigglypuff have more speed, but in return, become even lighter to KO.

 

[Shadow Calibur]

Someone said make jpuff faster and heavier. Jpuff is already Upper teir(or high, forget which). He's already a great char. The WoP is enough for you? You want to make him FASTER? And not die off the top as easily? ****.

Then the same guy said make Marth's fsmash have a larger sweetspot. EXCUSE ME? You said take a top teir char with one of the most abused moves in the game, and make it even more abusable? Once again, I say ****.

more later.

Oh. Okay. Sure. Shoot me for all I care. You act like I'm going overboard.

All right, I drop the weight issue on Jiggs. But speed only needs to be increased just a tiny bit. And Marth's sweetspot should extend from the exact tip to just a bit below the tip- the sweetspot will eventually become a small triange and a REALLY small rectangle.

And I really don't care for Roy- as most people around here have said, he was mainly a promotional tool. Promotion's over.

 

[Ami]

I don't want to see Roy go (for he's our boy! v_v ... ), but if he has to get axed, then so be it; I don't main him. He's a fun character to be, and I prefer him over Marth, but whatever. If it means getting replaced with a new character, it's okay. I'll just play SSBM if I want to be Roy some time.

I want Dr. Mario to go, though (for the same reasons other people have said).
Marshigio pretty much said it all for me.

 

[Dark_Ness]

Time to rest Pit 42's case.

Tiers?....I don't really believe in them but...I don't need Ness. He was good in SSB then in Melee they sort of blew him off. He just sucked you know?..Well there is one more character I would like to see than go that him and that is Shiek. Look..I'm tired of her already she is an unblanced character and some weird...things I don't understand. But..with her fanbase she is not going anywhere and plus Ness or Mr Game & Watch are more likely to leave because no one really plays with him.

Anyone who hates Ness just because he got "nerfed" in melee is an idiot. Ness does not suck. Period. Neither does Mr. Game & Watch. They never sucked. The only charcater that sucks is Pichu, and everybody knows that. You know what? I play all 3 of them, and to say "no one really plays with him(sic)" is down right stupid. They are fun characters, and people love them, so leave'em alone. Ness and G&W won't leave (Ness is an even bigger staple to Smash). End of story. The only thing I agree with on this post is removing Sheik, but sadly, that won't happen. Sheik will probably get toned down a bit, but that's at most.

Ness will not and should not be changed to the way he was in Melee. The old Ness *****, true, but he gets a bit boring after a while. Why not just get good with Ness in Melee and then **** while having fun at the same time? Old Ness *****, and the current Ness also *****. Giving Ness his old spike back for Brawl (or its power, at least) is the only thing they should do. I'd be a very happy man if they did.

Oh, and BTW, the next person to tell me "But Ness iz LOW TIER he SUX LOL!!!!!!!!!111one" gets the business end of my shoe to their face. I am tired of hearing that crap, and I'm even more tired of repeating myself.

Good day to you.

 

[Ami]

I agree with Dark_Ness, even though I don't use Ness at all, and I suck with him, he is not a bad character ... I don't think any character really sucks (even Pichu); it's the way you use them that really counts.

Originally posted by Dark_Ness
Oh, and BTW, the next person to tell me "But Ness iz LOW TIER he SUX LOL!!!!!!!!!111one" gets the business end of my shoe to their face. I am tired of hearing that crap, and I'm even more tired of repeating myself.

Yes, being lower on the tier list does not make the character "bad" or make them "suck".

 

[Zink]

I'm in favor of revamping rather than axing.
To say Roy was just a promotional tool is IMO silly. The first FE GBA game to come to the US arrived like 2 years AFTER Smash! That's a pretty late promotion! And, although I might be going out on a limb here, maybe he was included because Nintendo thought he would be fun to play as . And they were right, huh?

 

[FlipTroopa]

I'm in favor of revamping rather than axing.
To say Roy was just a promotional tool is IMO silly. The first FE GBA game to come to the US arrived like 2 years AFTER Smash! That's a pretty late promotion! And, although I might be going out on a limb here, maybe he was included because Nintendo thought he would be fun to play as . And they were right, huh?

The GBA game with Roy never came out Stateside. It was released within a year after Smash in Japan. The one that we got over here had Eliwood, Roy's father, and was only released two years after Smash because they just finally then realized how well-received the characters were. Irregardless, the Roy FE game (Sword of Seals) was too far along in development to magically start localizing for US audiences directly after Smash. So there's another reason they waited.

 

[Collif]

I'm dissapointed in everyone. Maybe I missed it but I never saw one mention of Kirby. I was a Kirby player in the original and I'm a Kirby player now. I'd like to see him return to at least a portion of his former glory. Maybe make the stone decent again.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say that I think no characters should be axed, but no reason why they can't be revamped.

Pichu: I love using Pichu, though I'll admit hes not good. I think he should be made slightly better and luigified. I mean he is a pokemon that can learn any number of moves, so they should have no trouble finding another move set for him.

Ganondorf: This is the big one for me. I'd like to see him, not just become luigified, but become his own character. I'd like to give him his energy shot that appears in OoT and I'd like for him to be able to turn into Ganon(Ganon is not the same as Ganondorf, I wish everyone would quit abbreiviating as such) much like Zelda turns into Sheik. Ganon has been astable of Nintendo's much longer then the Dark Wizard himself, so an appearance would make sense.

The Links: Keep them but change them. Big Link becomes Twilight Princess Link and Young Link becomes Wind Waker Link. Give TP Link the transfomation into the Wolf(transformation theme amoung Zelda characters maybe?) as well as any other changes that particular game birngs to Link. Also get rid of his boomerang, Big Link never had one. Wind Waker Link could use things like the grappling hook and magic armour(similar to Zelda's Nayrus love maybe?) and of course keep the boomerang. This would differentiate between the two even more and you can't even use the arguement that they are the same person.

 

[Black/Light]

Changes- Give Falco different moves and give Ganon his sword and different moves. Do that to Roy too. Make Browser better.

Cuts- Cut Pichu (Replace with Heracross for 2nd gen rep), replace M2 with Deoxy(I have lost all hope on him getting a better move-set or coming back.) make Doc a suit and replace Y. Link with Wolf Link. Make D.K better or take him out (yeah, I said it. AND WHAT?).

 

[Ryu777]

Im gonna be original and say... axe Pichu, Y. Link, and Doc. Once these characters are gone give thier advantages to the characters they clone (mario gets more power, Link gets more speed, etc.) Roy is cool, and I'm split on him, but there are better FE characters, so I wouldnt go on a killing spree if he were removed. Luigify Falco by giving him that badass rocket launcher he's always pictured with. Give Ganondorf Dual Swords, we dont have a dual weaponed character yet AND that would represent for Wind Waker. Nerf Marth and Shiek a little (not to the extent that kirby was). Make Kirby, Mewtwo, and Bowser better.

 

[kaid]

replace M2 with Deoxy(I have lost all hope on him getting a better move-set or coming back.)

M2's moveset is NOT his problem. His raw stats are the only thing that keep him out of Mid tier.
While there ARE a few moves that could use tweaking, if they left him EXACTLY the same and decreaced EVERYONE ELSE's speed (like sakura said) and gave him a bit more weight, he'd be fairly balanced.

 

[The rAt]

Well, I'll be honest, I no longer have the patience to wade through all of the repetition and weak arguements to get to the juicy nuggets of insight that are going into this topic, and I've long since felt like my thoughts are falling on deaf ears, so I may just leave this topic to its own devices once I've said my piece.... whenever that is.

Anyhow, I have to give props to you, Marshigio, for supplying me with some interesting reasons for your suggestions. I'm still going to have to disagree with you on Roy and Falco, though. Falco, specifically because I feel he plays much differently than Fox because he doesn't drop like a rock. I've never been able to do anything with Fox arially (sp?) because he falls so quickly, where as Falco, I can. For me, that is the difference between kicking a** and taking names, and having your a** kicked and your name taken. I'd agree that Wolf and Krystal would make interesting additions, but I think Nintendo should be able to accomidate that without removing my good buddy Falco. In the case of Roy, I'm not particularly familiar with the Fire Emblem games, but it seems that he makes a tad more sense than Marth, just because he's made his debut here on American soil, where as I'm still not entirely certain where Marth came from. Now that isn't to say I want them cutting Marth. Rather, I'm just hoping they don't need to cut either. However, as Roy is the clone, if one of them has to go, I guess I'll have to let my punching bag go. Btw, you can have candy now if you want it

You know, have to say that I don't understand how characters like Game'N'Watch, Ness, Ice Climbers, and Mewtwo are even in question right now. I mean, they are all original characters, with original movesets. Logically speaking, Nintendo is more likely to scrap EVERY clone before they are to scrap ANY of the characters with unique movesets, because the clones have to be luigified, modified, or given their own moveset, but the non-clones merely need to be tweaked.

That aside, I don't see either Game'N'Watch, Ice Climbers, or Ness getting kicked. Game'N'Watch predates every other Nintendo character in existence, and is an homage to Nintendo's origins. I doubt they are going to just throw him out because most of us are too young to appreciate that. As far as the Ice Climbers go, they are the most original and unique character concept in Melee, and take true skill to master. They aren't going to get kicked because a few people never took the time to get the hang of them. In Ness' case, he's one of the originals from the first SSB, and for that alone, I don't see him getting kicked. In the case of both characters I would note that the longer a character has been around the less likely it is to be cut out, and Game'N'Watch has been around for quite a bit longer than twenty years, and Ness has been around since the SNES, if I recall correctly.

So, once and for all, I'll say my piece and be done with it; they can remove Pichu and they can toss aside the good Dr. Mario, but removing anything else would be a disservice (see previous posts or consult me for my rational if you still don't understand why).

As always, my appathetic nature is starting to get the better of me, bringing into question the quality of my attention, which you can be assured I will investigate just as soon as I achieve world domination. Later.

Andy

 

[Ryu777]

Rat, i agree with everything you say except that you dont include y. link as one of the ones getting scrapped, pleae give a good reason why he should return, when he is just a younger versiopn of another character, just like pichu.

 

[IcEdUp414]

So many people argue over such a topic. Its a very simple question. Who should be axed? Whats the problem? Easy, EVERY and I mean EVERY character has fans. Even the "pathetic"character we know as Pichu has fans. Not everyone wants to see them go. But well, What're ya gonna do? They are gonna axe some people regardless of fans or not. So it is in this conclusion I feel that these characters, If any, Should be axed.

Pichu: Ahh, Yes the most hated, Most pathetic character but with a few fans. Why do I want him gone? Simple. He is just a Baby Version of Pikachu. And I hate to be pessimistic but one baby is enough. (Hint, Young Link). Pichu is severly unbalanced BUT to his disadvantage unlike Shiek who is unbalanced to her advantage. Pichu fans, Do yourselves a favor. LET HIM GET AXED. Do you honestly want Pichu's rep being ruined for being such a weak character? And don't even say "Tweak him"Because who has ever heard of a 7 year old beating thier Father. I think that Pikachu should be stronger and that Pichu shouldn't be tweaked otherwise. So axe her before her rep is completely trashed.

Roy: As a Marth user myself I should have no say in Roy. But well, we all have our loves and hates and well Roy's a hate. Reasons? Welll. Roy was only in Melee for Advertising Purposes for his upcoming game. And hate to drop the axe but he is a complete clone of Marth. Roy is one of those people you get and when you play them you get Deja vo. Is it our fault they put Marth as a must before Roy? No. If the tables were turned I'd say axe Marth but since Marth is unlocked first it makes Roy the clone. Now please Roy lovers get over yourselves. Its not a big deal, I bet in SSBB your gonna get a character and then think "Wow Roy sucked".

Doctor Mario: Doctor Mario, Mario unlike Marth,Roy. Pikachu,Pichu. Fox,Falco, And so on are the SAME person. Doctor Mario is the same as Mario with just a disc thing on his head and a docters outfit. I suggest giving Mario, DR. Mario's weight and strength and put him as an outfit. Use commen sense.

And just to clear this up, Link in SSBB is NOT TP Link just has TP Links looks but with the SSBM Link's moves. So stop saying crap about turning into a wolf. The Zelda/Shiek transformation is a one of a kind thing not to be abused otherwise it'd make it a stupid move. And if they did edit Link's move they'd ruin the tradition of his moveset from the first two SSB's. And no tradition should be ruined.

 

[kaid]

They can include TP moves. I support Midna-on-Wolf as a separate character, and TP Link getting moves like the shield bash.

 

[Zink]

Sheild bash would be good but I don't see Wolf Link or Midna being a character in the game at all.

 

[Espy Rose]

Again, people are wanting in yet ANOTHER Link.

Young Link, Old Link, WW Link, Fierce Diety Link, and now Wolf Link?

Don't you ever know when to stop? Old Link is ENOUGH.

 

[ZMan]

Doc, Pichu, and Y. Link defantly being cut. Roy, ICs, and GAW might be cut to, maybe.

Also:
Ness needs to be like he was in 64, also I don't think the YYG will stay. Same with Kirby and Pikachu(need to be like they were in 64)
Marth needs to be nerfed big time. Remove some of his range and make him less powerful
Roy needs to shoot fire out of his sword like in FE6 and have his Dair spike, u know, usefull.
Fox and Falco should have their shines removed and only be a deflector. Also, the need to fal slower.
Ganon and Falco need to have their own moveset.

 

[kaid]

Again, people are wanting in yet ANOTHER Link.

Young Link, Old Link, WW Link, Fierce Diety Link, and now Wolf Link?

Don't you ever know when to stop? Old Link is ENOUGH.

Young link AS WW Link, TP Link, Gannondorf with a FDL COSTUME, and Midna, riding a wolf which may or may not be Link.

Result, Hero of Winds, Hero of Time, a costume and a mount.

 

[IcEdUp414]

Omg If they switch Link to TP Link then they trash his moveset from the first game and that would overall make the game sell worse because they ruined the unoriginality.

 

[Espy Rose]

Young link AS WW Link, TP Link, Gannondorf with a FDL COSTUME, and Midna, riding a wolf which may or may not be Link.

Result, Hero of Winds, Hero of Time, a costume and a mount.

So what if Young Link would be WW Link? The fact is, that there are too many Links that everyone want to be in. These needless extra Links are going to take away space for more worthy characters.

useless..

 

[IcEdUp414]

So what if Young Link would be WW Link? The fact is, that there are too many Links that everyone want to be in. These needless extra Links are going to take away space for more worthy characters.

useless..

Its not YL I care about its older Link. Screw up Y.Link for all I care but yea I agree with your point on the "useless"Links.

 

[kaid]

If you're not still crying about how Link lost his 0% to death inescapable combo from SSB64, you'll get over them tweaking Link into TP link.

And puffball, LoZ is Nintendo's second most popular franchise. Therefore, it deserves representation on par with Pokemon and Mario, all three of which should have more than any other franchise.

 

[Got Blood?]

Why do we need more than 2 Link's? Another variation of one character is more than enough.No more than 2 Marios,2 Links,etc.If they HAVE to put in another Link (taking out Young Link presumably) give him som original moves.

 

[Zink]

Hmmm... I have an idea. Ax Pikachu instead of Pichu. Pichu is cuter and they could just give him a bit of weight and fix his self damaging, and he'd be like Pikachu.

 

[kaid]

Why do we need more than 2 Link's? Another variation of one character is more than enough.No more than 2 Marios,2 Links,etc.If they HAVE to put in another Link (taking out Young Link presumably) give him som original moves.

The Hero of Winds would play nothing like the villager we call TP Link, and Midna is a completely diferent character, as is Gannondorf.

 

[Zink]

Midna looks to be the equivalent of Navi. I don't think she will be featured.

 

[kaid]

Navi, huh?

Doesn't seem much like Navi to me...

 

[Espy Rose]

And puffball, LoZ is Nintendo's second most popular franchise. Therefore, it deserves representation on par with Pokemon and Mario, all three of which should have more than any other franchise.

Here's the thing: I'm not against new Zelda characters, I'm just against more Link additions.


If you want LoZ to be on par in representation with Pokemon and Mario Bros, then add in Midna, Skull Kid, and other popular LoZ characters, not simply another Link.

I'm just sick of this "add WW Link since he is not the 'same' Link!" bull. I don't care if they aren't genetically the same. The fact is, they look the same, they sport similar outfits, and finally, they have the same name.

Axe Y. Link, don't add any MORE Links, but add MORE LoZ characters.

 

[::~Hax~::]

Pichu needs to be out. He plays no important roles in the Pokemon games and plays few cameos in the show.

I don't know why Jiggly was in; in the first place, either. SSB/M are meant to focus on the VIDEO GAMES; Jiggly is only moderately popular in the TV show.

Young Link honestly can't be in unless Twilight Princess has something similiar to OoT's time travel system.

Doc should stay. He's had his own games.

And Sheik can't go; don't even think about it. OoT is the best Zelda game to date and I'll bet my money that she'll be in TP, as well.

Ganondorf needs an ENTIRE makeover, because he is not related to CF in the least bit, and it doesn't make sense.

Falco should stay the way he is; his differences are good enough.

 

[Zink]

yes, kaid, Navi. An informational, helper role. That's Midna. Like the preious fairies and the pirate charm in WW. Pointing out lockons? Offering advice? Definitely a helper role.

 

[kaid]

In the waking world, perhaps, but in the Twilight Realm Midna becomes quite the combatant.

And there was no evidend I saw of the infamus "Hey, listen!"

 

[kaid]

I'm just sick of this "add WW Link since he is not the 'same' Link!" bull. I don't care if they aren't genetically the same. The fact is, they look the same, they sport similar outfits, and finally, they have the same name.

The Hero of Winds

Some young villager with a sword.

...right. Sure looks the same to me...[/lie]

 

[teh_spamerer]

Pichu needs to be out. He plays no important roles in the Pokemon games and plays few cameos in the show.

I don't know why Jiggly was in; in the first place, either. SSB/M are meant to focus on the VIDEO GAMES; Jiggly is only moderately popular in the TV show.

Young Link honestly can't be in unless Twilight Princess has something similiar to OoT's time travel system.

Doc should stay. He's had his own games.

And Sheik can't go; don't even think about it. OoT is the best Zelda game to date and I'll bet my money that she'll be in TP, as well.

Ganondorf needs an ENTIRE makeover, because he is not related to CF in the least bit, and it doesn't make sense.

Falco should stay the way he is; his differences are good enough.

To all Pichu haters

If Smash has to do with video games, what does Jiggly's popularity in the TV show matter? And since jigglypuff does appear in the game, I see no reason to remove her, especially since she stayed in Melee.

I don't get it. If Shiek can stay because OoT is the best Zelda game to date, why should Young Link be axed? After all, Young Link appears in A Link to the Past(he's referred to as boy), OoT, MM, and technically WW but I guess you can disregard that one.

Yes, Doctor Mario should stay.

Ganondorf does need an entire makeover. Maybe if you give him his sword ,OoT, WW, and TP inspired magic, or something similar to Zelda(aka, down B transforms into Ganon) for his moves.

Falco had BETTER stay. There is no spam in the game as entertaining as SHB.

@xianfeng - Thx, I think my username fits me perfectly as well.

 

[Ami]

Having every kind of Link in SSBB would be cool, but that's only because I like Link so much but I don't support the idea. If it means getting some more Link characters in place of characters from other games, then no. Having too many of one character will make things unbalanced.

Originally posted by Zink
Hmmm... I have an idea. Ax Pikachu instead of Pichu. Pichu is cuter and they could just give him a bit of weight and fix his self damaging, and he'd be like Pikachu.

Pikachu is cuter than Pichu, I think. Besides, Pikachu has been there from the very beginning, and since I don't support any of the newer sets of Pokemon, I'd rather have Pichu dropped than ol' Pikachu. And why re-make Pichu to be like Pikachu, when you can just have Pikachu?

 

[Destruction_King]

Having every kind of Link in SSBB would be cool, but that's only because I like Link so much but I don't support the idea. If it means getting some more Link characters in place of characters from other games, then no. Having too many of one character will make things unbalanced.



Pikachu is cuter than Pichu, I think. Besides, Pikachu has been there from the very beginning, and since I don't support any of the newer sets of Pokemon, I'd rather have Pichu dropped than ol' Pikachu. And why re-make Pichu to be like Pikachu, when you can just have Pikachu?

Pikachu is, and always has been, the posterboy of the entire Pokemon Series. He's in SSBB to represent the series, just as Samus represents Metroid, Marth Represents Fire Emblem, and Falcon represents F-Zero. Would you replace C. Falcon with Blood Hawk? Then why would you replace Pkiachu with Pichu?

What everyone seems to forget is that SSBB has a limited amount of space. Sure, wolf Link would be cool to see, but I'm going to restate what I said a while back. SSBB is more than a fighting game. It's fanservice. And because of this, adult Link covers the lLink fans who want to see thier favorite character in the game? Why should they have thier favorite character in twice, when someone else's favorite is omitted all together. For each additional Link put in the game, another character is left out. And that's why I'm against Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and to an extent, Pichu.

EDIT: I should make this clearer. Ami, I'm agreeing with you, and just using your post as backup. I'm not arguing with you. I agree.

 

[NukeA6]

To all Pichu haters

Remind me to do the same to you when it is revealed that Pichu isn't in Brawl.

 

[kaid]

What everyone seems to forget is that SSBB has a limited amount of space. Sure, wolf Link would be cool to see, but I'm going to restate what I said a while back. SSBB is more than a fighting game. It's fanservice. And because of this, adult Link covers the Link fans who want to see thier favorite character in the game? Why should they have thier favorite character in twice, when someone else's favorite is omitted all together. For each additional Link put in the game, another character is left out. And that's why I'm against Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and to an extent, Pichu.

Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are the three biggest franchises in Nintendo's arsonal. Because they are so massive and cover the most different gameplay types, they have a disproportunate representation in Smash.

In SSB64, Mario and Pokemon were the only franchises with TWO characters.

In Melee, Mario had 5 core characters (plus Yoshi), Zelda had 4, (plus Shiek) and Pokemon had 4, while Starfox and Fire Emblem followed with only 2, and everyone else only had one.

Expect the trend to continue.

 

[Ami]

Originally posted by Destruction_King
I should make this clearer. Ami, I'm agreeing with you, and just using your post as backup. I'm not arguing with you. I agree.

Yeah, hehe, thanks for the clear-up, I was a bit confused.

NukeA6, I don't hate Pichu, nor do I like it, so I'm not a Pichu hater if that's what you're saying.

I wish they would just balance the characters ... have 5 of Mario characters and one of other characters is a bit unbalanced, but not surprising, I guess. But you're probably right, Kaid, the trend might continue.