Character Weaknesses

[Viceversa96]

Can someone make a list about each characters weaknesses. I swear they're are some character that I think don't have weaknesses. So maybe if I work together with you guys I can make a list so we could have less trouble with certain characters.

Mario- Has range/disjoint issues.

Luigi- Has range/disjoint issues, recovery is predictable, and has difficulty approaching.

Peach- Lack of ground mobility, KO'd off of the top easily, has trouble chasing vertically.

Bowser- Struggles against grabs, is easily combo'd, recovery is terrible, and high lag moves are punishable if they miss.

Wario- Has range/disjoint issues, below average recovery.

Link- Doesn't handle pressure well, average recovery, and combo'd easily.

Toon Link-Low range, easily combo'd, predictable recovery.

Sheik- Predictable recovery, relies on edgeguards and gimps.

Zelda- Easily Ko'd off the top, not very mobile.

Ganondorf- Easily combo'd, has trouble vs. projectiles, recovery is easily gimped. Mobility issues. Big target.

Captain Falcon- Easily combo'd, has trouble vs. projectiles, recovery is easily gimped.

Fox- Easily combo'd.......yeah that's all I got.

Falco- Easily combo'd and short recovery.

Wolf- Easily combo'd.........

Jigglypuff- She's a balloon. A few strong hits will knock her out. Very linear approach. Problems vs. projectiles.

Pikachu- Easily combo'd, lightweight, extremely short range.

Lucario- Easily combo'd, recovery is short, has problems dealing with pressure.

Squirtle- Lightweight, predictable recovery, short range.

Charizard- Struggles against projectiles, has trouble approaching and is easily combo'd.

Ivysaur- Lightweight, predictable recovery, easily pressured.

Ike- Easily combo'd, predictable recovery, high lag moves are very punishable, easily pressured.

Marth- Struggles against projectiles, recovery is predictable.

Meta-Knight- Easily combo'd due to his new falling speed and a light weight, as well as having projectile problems.

King DeDeDe- Struggles vs. projectiles, linear approach, and easily combo'd.

Sonic- Struggles vs. projectiles, short range, and very light.

Donkey Kong- Easily combo'd, struggles vs. projectiles, and easily gimped.

Diddy Kong- Easily combo'd due to his new falling speed, lightweight, and easily gimped.

Snake- Easily combo'd, struggles vs. projectiles, and predictable recovery.

Ness- Lightweight, and predictable recovery.

Lucas- Easily combo'd, lightweight, and predictable recovery.

Mr. G&W- Lightweight, worst rolls and tech rolls make him the easiest to tech chase in the game, and predictable recovery, and easily pressured.

R.O.B.- Easily combo'd and is easily pressured.

ZSS- Lightweight, predictable recovery, easily pressured.

Unreleased
Olimar-
Kirby-
Ice Climbers-
Yoshi-
Samus-
Mewtwo-
Roy-

 

[DMG]

????

What characters do you hate DON'T WORRY if you say Fox it just means you understand

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

A thread about character weaknesses? I'd be interested in seeing this expand. My question for it though is do you want to only know defensive weaknesses, or if you want to discuss everything that a character may or may not be good at?

 

[| Kailex |]

Ganondorf = X

 

[Minor Pandemic]

This thread could maybe go somewhere, so I'll try to contribute.

Mario struggles to approach his opponents. It's difficult for Mario to safely move in on an opponent who is just DD-camping or playing passively or what have you.

Edit: also, inb4 DMG talks bad about Mario's dair

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

ddd is fat


not very mobile on the ground, large hitbox, slow attack speed and priority

 

[Sartron]

Can someone make a list about each characters weaknesses. I swear they're are some character that I think don't have weaknesses. So maybe if someone can make a list I could have less trouble with certain characters.

Perhaps you can say which characters you think have no weaknesses first? Making a list of weaknesses for characters can get awfully opinionated and solves nothing.

 

[Viceversa96]

Maybe we can go really in depth. (Priority, frame data, etc.)

 

[JOE!]

That would take quite a while unless we have specific instances where that is needed.

How about we start with a basic one:

What characters are weak vs Projectiles?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Bowser has a weakness against good players

 

[0RLY]

most characters I play (except fox) gets wrecked by crouch cancels

 

[NaijaboyIrin]

Why do you need a thread for char weaknesses? That's something you find out for yourself....

 

[\Apples]

Zard struggles against zoning, has trouble approaching and is easily combo'd, on the other hand he has excellent recovery and has one of the best combo games out of the whole cast.

Bowser struggles against grabs and is easily combo'd, but excels in defense and can kill with only a few hits (it's just hard to make those hits happen against good players).

Wario struggles against characters that outrange him and some zoning characters, but his grab game is unmatched, his pressure is calculated and he's difficult to predict if he's played correctly (No, I'm not really talking about the dash grab.)

Wolf, Fox and Falco are easily gimped but are pretty much incredible at everything else.

ZSS is broken but lacks a reliable grounded defensive option and has trouble killing, but is insane at everything else. You can't gimp her unless you're Fox.

Squirtle is broken but is very light and dies quickly, good luck hitting the little **** though. Oh, his combo game is unreal and his approach options are unmatched. The only other thing holding this guy back is a slight lack of kill power. (Relies on Bubble, Usmash and now Fair for his kills, Dthrow is too easy to DI.)

Link excels in zoning but can hold his own in close combat decently. His combos aren't the most reliable but they certainly happen, he's a very improvisational character when it comes to combos. His biggest weaknesses... pretty bad recovery even with bomb jumping. If he didn't have Grapple Hook I'd say one of the worst recoveries in the game. Has several defensive options but none are exceptionally fast, Nair OOS, UpB OOS and Usmash OOS are all very different but must be applied differently. Properly defending oneself as link involves choosing the right OOS option, the wrong one gets you killed.

Ike has incredible combos, kill power and mobility but lacks a solid recovery. He's too gimpable and lacks a reliable defensive option.

Captain Falcon has a **** recovery and is combo'd extremely easily.

Ganondorf is similar in that regard, but also lacks a solid defensive option.

I don't feel like typing anymore.

 

[ELI-mination]

here's my list of fox's weaknesses

 

[SpiderMad]

Do you got some footage of this super Squirtle?

 

[Nemiak temp]

Everyone is broken shut-up about weakness bull****.

 

[Professor Pro]

It would look better if in the OP you had every character listed, so then the community could help fill in the gap and come to a consensus on what is viewed as a character's general weakness.

 

[Viceversa96]

It would look better if in the OP you had every character listed, so then the community could help fill in the gap and come to a consensus on what is viewed as a character's general weakness.

Is there a way to let people edit it?

 

[~Frozen~]

no, only the thread creator can edit the first post.

 

[JOE!]

Everyone is broken shut-up about weakness bull****.

Well, that is certainly healthy. So far the only list in the thread has "bad against zoning/range/etc" as a consistent weakness it seems, this could lead to finding out where the dev team could achieve balance in some problematic MU's if need be if something is found as a weakness/problem among many characters. Or even a specific weakness on one guy that is problematic enough could see attention.


@viceversa: Only you or mods can really edit it.

 

[Viceversa96]

Updated OP. Let's fill in the blanks.

 

[DMG]

This thread could maybe go somewhere, so I'll try to contribute.

Mario struggles to approach his opponents. It's difficult for Mario to safely move in on an opponent who is just DD-camping or playing passively or what have you.

Edit: also, inb4 DMG talks bad about Mario's dair

I love Mario's Dair! I just hate when people always assume he will get in with it. Which is like 80% of people.

(Mario top 5 cause GRAB GAME AND STRONG APPROACHING SAYS SMASHERILUVMARIO89)

 

[Viceversa96]

I love Mario's Dair! I just hate when people always assume he will get in with it. Which is like 80% of people.

(Mario top 5 cause GRAB GAME AND STRONG APPROACHING SAYS SMASHERILUVMARIO89)

For some reason I still feel Mario isn't balanced enough. A lot of characters can still kick his ass. I really wish they would take something (like one or two things) from 64 Mario.

It would look better if in the OP you had every character listed, so then the community could help fill in the gap and come to a consensus on what is viewed as a character's general weakness.

Oh hey weren't you on Wizzy's stream a few days ago?

 

[Nemiak temp]

Mario is pretty much a buffed Doc. Doc is pretty sweet in melee and only has trouble in a few matchups. With all of the buffs he's gotten there's no way he isn't "balanced enough," if anything he's too good, in which case I guess he isn't balanced. His fireballs are absolutely rediculous, his fsmash is bonkers and all of his aerials are awesome. He doesn't really have any weaknesses.

 

[Viceversa96]

Mario is pretty much a buffed Doc. Doc is pretty sweet in melee and only has trouble in a few matchups. With all of the buffs he's gotten there's no way he isn't "balanced enough," if anything he's too good, in which case I guess he isn't balanced. His fireballs are absolutely rediculous, his fsmash is bonkers and all of his aerials are awesome. He doesn't really have any weaknesses.

I feel you're right but at the same time I haven't seen people picking him up in tourneys and I haven't been seeing him win much.

 

[\Apples]

Do you got some footage of this super Squirtle?

Nah man my laptop blue screens whenever we try to record so we gave up on it. Don't have the money or the cares to do anything more about it.

 

[Nemiak temp]

I feel you're right but at the same time I haven't seen people picking him up in tourneys and I haven't been seeing him win much.

They're just not good with him. Have you heard of Mr. Lemon? He's a really solid melee Doc player who plays around me. In melee brackets he usually places 4th or 5th at 20/30 man tournies for reference to his skill level I guess. He placed 3rd at the last tournament I went to with him in project M going all Mario. Only losing to one of the best Falco players on the east coast and a ridiculous Link. The Link matchup is probably one of the very few matchups that is tough for him now because his new Zair. A lot of people just don't use his tools the best way. An example are his fireballs. They are so god damn good and now that they have less endlag is crazy. They aren't a good projectile to just throw out to stuff an approach or to protect you while you approach. They are better for controlling space and limiting options. If someone is on a platform above you throw a fireball to the other platform to limit their options of movement then follow up with an attack depending on where they go.

EDIT: And his cape too lol. That's like the best gimping option in the game

 

[Viceversa96]

They're just not good with him. Have you heard of Mr. Lemon? He's a really solid melee Doc player who plays around me. In melee brackets he usually places 4th or 5th at 20/30 man tournies for reference to his skill level I guess. He placed 3rd at the last tournament I went to with him in project M going all Mario. Only losing to one of the best Falco players on the east coast and a ridiculous Link. The Link matchup is probably one of the very few matchups that is tough for him now because his new Zair. A lot of people just don't use his tools the best way. An example are his fireballs. They are so god damn good and now that they have less endlag is crazy. They aren't a good projectile to just throw out to stuff an approach or to protect you while you approach. They are better for controlling space and limiting options. If someone is on a platform above you throw a fireball to the other platform to limit their options of movement then follow up with an attack depending on where they go.

EDIT: And his cape too lol. That's like the best gimping option in the game

I think I've mastered Mario myself. I just don't have money to go to tourneys :/

 

[DMG]

This is exactly why I hate talking about Mario.

 

[leelue]

here's my list of fox's weaknesses

Wait but you forgot about

 

[Viceversa96]

This is exactly why I hate talking about Mario.

Lol hold up. Why?


Also on a serious note let's take this one character at a time. Now I know Apples already listed some weaknesses so let's get back to Mario. What do you think his weaknesses are?

 

[Nemiak temp]

Probably because no one seems to agree on how broken or ****ty he might be and we end up talking in circles

 

[Viceversa96]

O.K. on a serious note let's take this one character at a time. Now I know Apples already listed some weaknesses so let's get back to Mario. What do you think his weaknesses are? Better yet what do you KNOW his weaknesses are?

 

[DMG]

Mario has range/disjoint issues, poor grab range makes it hard to land, his approaching is pretty linear and not as threatening to the mobile ground characters, average-ish problem of getting trapped on the edge and stuck above certain large Uairs, mmm that's all I can think of now

The Mario approaching "myth" I think is the biggest misconception about the character.

 

[Nemiak temp]

Mario doesn't need to approach though. His ledge dash was pretty godlike in melee...Is this no longer true?
EDIT: Rather he doesn't need to be aggressive with an approach and can play relatively safe

 

[DMG]

Plenty of characters can play relatively safe. It doesn't tend to help them very much however once people get past it. Ness PK fire for example, is hard to constantly have out to dissuade the Marth/Sheik/Fox that's closing the gap. Same thing with Mario fireballs: there's no way to guarantee that they can't still gain ground. If there was no way to shield or attack through fireballs/similar projectiles, then yes they would set the pace and control space in amazing ways. Stupid PK fire blowing up on shields

Mario's overall neutral game is decent, but it has struggles that you can't truly address by simply staying back and camping. Mario as a standalone character, when he's not landing a grab on someone or already getting a vertical string in the making, is not that amazing imo. He has capable tools, that just need the extra push to put him over the top. Stuff like running/approaching faster or a better grab range would make the big difference, because the rest of him is relatively above average already.

 

[BTmoney]

Fox's weaknesses:

• Most developed anti-meta (in basically all aspects)
• Low range
• Average priority
• Average grab range
• Staple combos and moves are susceptible to SDI (drill shine, drill in general, uthrow uair, uair in general)
• Has trouble following up certain traction/weight classes
• Lightweights can tech shine
• Trades unfavorably in most situations
• Combo Fodder
• Gimped easier than most other characters
• How well he can be edge guarded is both a weakness and strength (IMO)
• "Everyone is bad at Fox"

 

[\Apples]

Fox's weaknesses:

• How well he can be edge guarded is both a weakness and strength (IMO)

Wat

 

[DMG]

Fox breaks the rules. He's good and bad

 

[KayB]

• How well he can be edge guarded is both a weakness and strength (IMO)

I think what you mean is that under certain circumstances his recovery is very linear and easy to edgeguard/gimp while in other scenarios he has more options for recovery and can be harder to edgeguard.