Character matchups you can never win?

[16BitGeek]

Can't win against . His floaty style grants him the ability to dodge all my attacks, and he keeps smacking me around.

Oh I totally forgot Jigglypuff too! I struggle with Puff for the exact same reason. Just casually dodging my attacks and then strikes when it has the chance.

 

[Dragonspiller]

Oh I totally forgot Jigglypuff too! I struggle with Puff for the exact same reason. Just casually dodging my attacks and then strikes when it has the chance.

Luckily Shulk's air slash can some times counter puffs floutyness.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

As a and player, I can say I have trouble against as Kirby and with Meta Knight.

 

[JJpalmer]

As a jack of all trades win im seriously trying to win with ike/shiek i cant touch sonic yoshi or wario players sonics to fast and combos to well wariors bike is just obnoxious and fighting yoshi i have no idea what to do the eggs and dash attack drive me nuts.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

As a jack of all trades win im seriously trying to win with ike/shiek i cant touch sonic yoshi or wario players sonics to fast and combos to well wariors bike is just obnoxious and fighting yoshi i have no idea what to do the eggs and dash attack drive me nuts.

As Ike, you can always use the down special if the opponent is using an attack that involves touching you. I don't know much about Sheik because I never use her, but I believe she's fast and could easily dodge some of those attacks.

 

[KenMeister]

As Ike, you can always use the down special if the opponent is using an attack that involves touching you. I don't know much about Sheik because I never use her, but I believe she's fast and could easily dodge some of those attacks.

Counters like the FE characters aren't usually recommended in competitive play because smart players can bait them and punish them HARD.

 

[HFlash]

As a jack of all trades win im seriously trying to win with ike/shiek i cant touch sonic yoshi or wario players sonics to fast and combos to well wariors bike is just obnoxious and fighting yoshi i have no idea what to do the eggs and dash attack drive me nuts.

Why can't you win with Shiek? She probably has the best neutral game in Smash 4 and the best MU spread.

 

[KenMeister]

Why can't you win with Shiek? She probably has the best neutral game in Smash 4 and the best MU spread.

She has trouble killing like in Brawl (though not nearly as bad here), but it's still enough to cost her matchups. Remember the Lucario matchup in Brawl? Still pretty bad for her in this game, but not enough to be a -2 like it was in Brawl. She also has still has trouble with Luigi IMO, and Kirby, another troublesome matchup for her in Brawl, is roughly even according to everyone else in the Smash 4 metagame. Characters with extremely good up-close games can give her a bit of trouble since her jab and tilts don't do a very good job spacing or keeping people off her, especially vs. floaties, when opponents like that can either just DI or nair out of her ftilt or jab.

 

[JJpalmer]

Why can't you win with Shiek? She probably has the best neutral game in Smash 4 and the best MU spread.

Just cant beat yoshi I dont see many warios so his bike makes me face desk and I don't know what to against sonic

 

[KenMeister]

Just cant beat yoshi I dont see many warios so his bike makes me face desk and I don't know what to against sonic

Actually Sheik can just nair Wario off his bike. It shouldn't give you trouble at all if you know how to respond to it. I do it against so many Warios who think they spam it on me all the time, and it pisses them off. lol

 

[JJpalmer]

Actually Sheik can just nair Wario off his bike. It shouldn't give you trouble at all if you know how to respond to it. I do it against so many Warios who think they spam it on me all the time, and it pisses them off. lol

i have much to learn i suppose i dont blame the character just my inabiltly to win except for sonic i hate that guy lol

 

[HFlash]

Just cant beat yoshi I dont see many warios so his bike makes me face desk and I don't know what to against sonic

Actually, I know for a fact which is confirmed by others on the Yoshi boards that in fact, shiek does beat yoshi. Her speed and mobility allows her to completely by pass the egg and although Yoshi can play up close, he prefers to play a zoney, in and out play style. /if your having trouble vs yoshi as shiek, you may not be playing fast enough, and that shouldn't be too hard as she is one of the only characters in the game who can get away with going ham in SM4SH.

And your solution to sonic: hold down A to clank rolling attack or shield grab

She has trouble killing like in Brawl (though not nearly as bad here), but it's still enough to cost her matchups. Remember the Lucario matchup in Brawl? Still pretty bad for her in this game, but not enough to be a -2 like it was in Brawl. She also has still has trouble with Luigi IMO, and Kirby, another troublesome matchup for her in Brawl, is roughly even according to everyone else in the Smash 4 metagame. Characters with extremely good up-close games can give her a bit of trouble since her jab and tilts don't do a very good job spacing or keeping people off her, especially vs. floaties, when opponents like that can either just DI or nair out of her ftilt or jab.

I'd agree with the consensus, at worst the MU for those characters is even except for lucario if only for the fact of the aura. Via raw damage, she does have a hard time killing, but if you can get a good ledgeguard, or fair--->fair---->fish off stage combo, she CAN kill very early.

 

[BaPr]

My main has trouble dealing with campy . When I finally get through his wall of projectiles, his sword keeps me from getting many hits. Also hate dealing withusers who spam the side B and jump out so they have no ending lag. Is there a safe move I can use against that to where I out prioritize or we just cancel each other out.

 

[KenMeister]

I'd agree with the consensus, at worst the MU for those characters is even except for lucario if only for the fact of the aura. Via raw damage, she does have a hard time killing, but if you can get a good ledgeguard, or fair--->fair---->fish off stage combo, she CAN kill very early.

Unless the opponent has a stupid good recovery (why can't recoveries be normal again like Melee?), something akin to Sonic for example. >.>

 

[Papercut]

Any tips for a Marth against Wario. His stupid bike pisses me off.

 

[HFlash]

Any tips for a Marth against Wario. His stupid bike pisses me off.

Be safe and use spaced fairs. Kind of Marth's bread and butter and how you should be playing him. IF you do that corrctly, you can knock him off the bike np.

Unless the opponent has a stupid good recovery (why can't recoveries be normal again like Melee?), something akin to Sonic for example. >.>

I honestly like the fact that SMASH 4 is so different from melee. Sure, some characters have bad recoveries but the fact that you can't gimp via ledge guarding makes those characters viable in the game. Diversity is good my friend

 

[The_Goofyborn]

Dedede. No matter how hard I try, a good Dedede always destroys my Shulk. It's a bit frustrating at times

 

[Ilnez]

I play and I'm still getting used to it. I struggle against my friends when they play some of the characters that are easiest to play as newer players. Mainlyand and . That counter being able to be used when I use my up-ground set-up and pretty much can never be knocked off if he's in green mode.

Any tips to beating these, especially and .

 

[Freduardo]

I play and I'm still getting used to it. I struggle against my friends when they play some of the characters that are easiest to play as newer players. Mainlyand and . That counter being able to be used when I use my up-ground set-up and pretty much can never be knocked off if he's in green mode.

Any tips to beating these, especially and .

Little Mac: Go to edge. Use back throw. Jump off edge. Hit further away. Note Little Mac has no recovery. Laugh.

Shulk: Play defensively. Back slash and missed counters leave him very open.

 

[Papercut]

Be safe and use spaced fairs. Kind of Marth's bread and butter and how you should be playing him. IF you do that corrctly, you can knock him off the bike np.




I honestly like the fact that SMASH 4 is so different from melee. Sure, some characters have bad recoveries but the fact that you can't gimp via ledge guarding makes those characters viable in the game. Diversity is good my friend

Thanks for the tips. Ever since who knows when, I've been using Marth's nairs too often that I've neglected his core moves. I think my mistake is using nairs as an approach while it should be used as a punish.

 

[-Yasuo]

i main and , the heros i have the most trouble against are probably and

 

[Kirby Dragons]

i main and , the heros i have the most trouble against are probably and

vs
One thing I've learned is that Super Dedede Jump can be used to prevent recovery if used on the edge. PK Flash and PK Thunder 2 also leave Ness vulnerable. Use the forward smash for Flash, and an upward Gordo Throw for an offensive Thunder 2. Dedede's down tilt is also good for just about anyone.

 

[waluigithewalrus]

I struggle against three characters in particular: , , and . The high speed they have always gives me headaches. Plus Greninja's substitute just rips me apart. I also struggle a bit against , but almost everyone I play eventually whiffs with rest, so that becomes easy.

I think I'd struggle with a few more, but in for glory mode, half the characters don't appear on a regular basis, so yeah.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

"Never" is such a strong word, but I generally have a difficult time with and at the moment.

 

[Tino]

As a Rosalina main, a highly skilled is like a disease that can't be cured and I also had trouble with as well. I don't know how to deal with those two.

 

[pudding7100]

for me its rosalina and lucario

 

[Kirby Dragons]

As a main, I always have trouble with . He always just jumps to the opposite side of the stage and bombards me with projectiles. I once played a Link I couldn't land a single hit on because he kept his distance and pushed me away with arrows (This was with DK). I'd appreciate any tips I could get. And for Mega Man, please don't tell me to counter with my own projectiles. I never use his specials unless I'm trying to recover, and his normal attack projectiles have too short a range.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

As a Villager main, the matchup is really, really difficult because of her instant massive wall that reflects 3/4ths of my attacks. This applies to anyone with a reflector really, but I find that good Palutenas can easily shut me down more so than the others.

I can relate as a villager main and a megaman main. Any character with a reflector can make the match up, long and difficult.

 

[samekh]

I hate people who spam with .
My main is and :/ can't stand a chance against little macs.

 

[Saclam]

Whenever I see a or a ,Im probably gonna have to step my game up a little further.

 

[GreenFlame]

I hate people who spam with .
My main is and :/ can't stand a chance against little macs.

I think you generally may have to play more defensively against Mac as those characters.

 

[samekh]

I think you generally may have to play more defensively against Mac as those characters.

Yeah, most of the time I try to stay in the corners but it just doesn't work with me, thanks for the advice.

 

[waluigithewalrus]

Whenever I see a or a ,Im probably gonna have to step my game up a little further.

I never get to concerned about , mainly because most of them just end up being side-b spammers.

 

[Meek Moths]

I never get to concerned about , mainly because most of them just end up being side-b spammers.

my side b spam beats your side b spam

 

[waluigithewalrus]

my side b spam beats your side b spam

Well, most things beat a Gordo unless you time it really well, sooooo....

 

[Meek Moths]

Well, most things beat a Gordo unless you time it really well, sooooo....

its hard being ddd main

 

[waluigithewalrus]

its hard being ddd main

Sometimes. But on the other hand, it takes a ton of effort to finally kill him!

 

[Ultresmasher5]

Spacies.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Easily by far. Yoshi gets demolished up close and Shiek closes the gap quickly preventing any egg toss camping. Fair strings into a bouncing fish KO is also not fun either.

Matchups that I really have to work for would be any smart player as or. They both have projectiles to stuff approaches and can easily rack up damage to KO %.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

Aggressive players, he is way too fast for my and