Character Discussion: Wario

[Micaelis]

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Please don't overrate or underestimate a character. Be helpful and constructive in your
criticism of each individual character.

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* Discussion will be held for about 2 weeks.

Wario

vs.

Ratio - 40:60

Advantages:

- Grab release to any smash or punch.
- Our Bair is good anti-air camp.
- Better range on our moveset.
- Better killing power/options.

Disadvantages:

- Bite destroys us if used right.
- Chain Grab from 0 to 118%.
- Aerial mobility if used right.

Summary:

Learn to wall Wario out with Bairs and Uairs. Be extremely careful of any grab
since against a good Wario it means any lead you had is gone. Try to read camping
habits and how the Wario likes to move. Get a grab if possible but don't be greedy for
it.

Aerial Game:

Wario has a slight advantage here with his mobility. His Fair is fast and his Uair
extremely damaging. Also only approach Wario in the air from under him. Use DK's
Bairs and Uairs while retreating or standing still to prevent Wario from getting under
you in the air. Do a rising Bair if you see an opening in Wario's air camping.

Ground Game:

DK has an advantage here mainly due to his much large range on his moves.
However, most Warios will never approach from anything but the air. Warios have a
jab cancel to grab and their bite can suck in any of our moves so be careful of both.

Approach:

You pretty much should never approach but if you do... well timed Ftilts and
rising Bairs. Don't be predictable about either and let them AD them to get inside you.

Camping Game:

Wario has good aerial mobility and may try to camp you with it. Most seem to
have some kind of pattern to it, so look for it and punish with a rising Bair. You also
should camp by creating a wall of rising and retreating Bairs to cover Warios options.

Edge Game:

Warios like to intercept your recovery with the fart to kill you. Just don't be
predictable and you can dodge it. If you can predict when Wario is going to use his
bike, knocking him off it as soon as he uses it leads to an easy gimp. Falling weak 
Bairs are the best way to do this.

Surviving:

Don't get grabbed. Wario's Fsmash has invincibility frames on it and it comes
out fast so care. Uair is a good kill move of Wario's, just don't let him get under you.
Fart can be DI'd if you see it coming. Remember that Half Charged Farts have higher
knock back than Full Charged farts so watch the timer and be careful.

Killing:

Grab release to punch/Usmash. You have to buffer the Dash > Usmash out
of the grab release but it's not to hard. Dsmash is also good since Wario likes to float
annoyingly around your head when he approaches. Just don't be predictable.

Stage Striking:

Strike to the flattest stage possible. Less platforms means more areas where
you can successfully grab release the Wario. Unless you feel comfortable and think
you can control the air/platforms better than Wario in general then Battlefield or
Yoshi's Island or Smashville... but care.

Stage Banning:

Most likely Rainbow Cruise unless you're comfortable in the air vs. Wario. Then
probably ban Halberd instead or any other CP you're uncomfortable with.

Counterpicks:

Final Destination, if it's banned then Smashville. Yoshi's is only okay since the
invincibility trick isn't as useful with Wario always being in the air.

Video Links:

 

[Dynomite]

I guess I will commit to this thread.

Wario has a hard time approaching DK with the retreating Bair walls.

grab release is your best bet for killing. and if you get it off DK can charge another punch while wario is flying off the stage.

If wario bites DK at low health (0-10) expect for wario to follow up with a grab and downthrow

Wario has the advantage in the air. I guess DK's best bet is to predict a clap or air move from wario and airdodge. Doing so will get you back on the ground in your safe zone.

Killing for both characters is hard. Dont mess up your lead.

DK has the advantage on the ground with shorthop back airs

Wario has the advantage in the air with his claps, nairs and fart.

With grab release, Dthrow, and gay****: 40:60 wario's favor

If you agree before the match to no gay**** (you better stick to your word) 50:50

I really hope this helped.

EDIT: just noticed i missed some stuff

Stages I personally like against DK (starter): wario likes to start on BF, YI and SV just because of the size being in wario's favor and the platform can save him from a grab release.
Counters: Wario would want to take DK to SV, BF, Rainbow, Frigate,

Stages I Personally dislike against DK (starter): FD just because we cant escape the grab release.
Counters: DK would want to take Wario to FD, halaberd ( low celing but kinda hard to grab release)

Wario will most likely ban: FD
DK will most likely ban: BF, Rainbow.

 

[Micaelis]

Thanks for getting the discussion started Dyno! <3 and I'll help you out.

Aerial Game: Wario has some advantage here mainly due to his mobility being slightly better. His Uair is easy to land due to our large hurtbox and he can punish us well with his Fair and Nair. Our Bair however beats a lot of his camping/spacing and our Uair trades well with his Dair and Nair. He can abuse our blindspot though so always rise up to him and not vice versa.

Ground Game: DK has a clear advantage minus the grab. Retreating SH Bairs and Ftilt do a good job dealing damage and frustrating Wario's spacing/camping. Reverse Utilt also works well and sometimes rising Uairs.

DK out ranges Wario in all ways but try not to UpB, SideB, or DownB as much here or you'll get punished. Careful of Wario's Bite in general. All of DKs hurtboxes when extended will be sucked in by it and a falling bite ***** shields. Also there are SA frames on Wario's Fsmash which when used right will always cause the Fsmash to hit your extended hurtbox with the Fsmash.

Wario has a down throw CG on DK from 0-108%. At 108% DK can jump out if his timing is correct. The CG is difficult at times and must be buffered well to perform correctly. DKs should learn to buffer the landing to roll away and escape or the buffered dash to buffered pivot punch to punish a bad Wario CG.

Approach: DK should NOT approach in this MU. Look below for "defense" which is his best bet. Warios will most likely approach only to punish or attempt to set up a grab combo such as landing behind your shield to grab or Dair to land behind shield and grab or bite to buffered dash grab at low %s. Also weak landing Nair hits can set up grabs.

Defense: DK needs to essentially create a wall of Bairs and Uairs and the occasional Ftilt. Wall Wario off and punish any bad aerial spacing with a Bair. After the wall is established Wario will wait for any openings and try to make some by going under the wall or above it. Uair if he goes above or retreat the Bair and keep zoning him. If he goes under then be smart about landing and retreating to reset up your wall. You can be slightly risky and try to Ftilt him if he's grounded and approaching with bad spacing or even try to do a buffered dash to pivot grab upon landing for some useful flash :D

Camping Game: Both characters are going to be kind of campy. Hopefully you won't get a T-O happy Wario. If that happens then you're going to have to set up the wall and close it in to trap him near the ledge. See the edge game below once you get him near it.

Edge Game: UpB stalling isn't to useful here unless Wario has no Bike and is recovering low. Wario's Bike is a kind of predictable recovery so learn to Bair/Uair them while using it. Bair them while initiating/on it and Uair if they jump off. If the Wario is recovering low then just grab the edge and WEAK Bair him when he rolls his Bike out for an easy gimp.

Normal tactics also work here like Ftilt angled down, Dsmash, and Fsmash if they hold on ledge to long etc etc.

Surviving: DK survives most of Wario's kill moves until 125% or so. With good DI and UpB Braking (good luck getting back!) you should live to at least a solid 130% if not all the way to 160%+. Wario's kill moves include Uair, Waft, and Fsmash mainly. Ftilt also kills at higher percents. Half Waft is also stronger than Full Waft in Knockback don't forget. Don't get above Wario (to avoid Uair) and don't let him fall on you/PS a close attack (to avoid Waft) and just don't do bad ground spacing/land on or near him (to avoid Fsmash).

Killing: DK has some good kill options like usual. His best being a grab release to ANY smash or Punch. The Release to Usmash however needs to buffer a dash to Usmash for effectiveness. Dsmash shines here also since he'll be annoyingly floating around you ADing and all. DK's Fsmash kills around 102%, Dsmash around 112%, Usmash around 86%, and Punch around 82%. Those percents are VERY general since DI and map placement heavily effect them.


Stage Striking: Pretty much want to try to get to the stage with the least platform possible such as Final Destination or Smashville since it'll help guarantee the grab release and make getting to the ground and creating the wall easier for DK.

Stage Banning: You'll want Rainbow Cruise out of there most likely but shoot towards your strengths and remember the grab release and his aerial mobility/your blindspot being abused.

Counterpicks: I usually take them to Final Destination but if it's banned then I take them to Smashville. If you can't do that then go with a stage you're comfortable with on the CP list.

I say 60:40 Wario's favor if not worse depending on the quality of the Wario.

Wario has a lot of grab setups and TECHNICALLY has a guaranteed 108% out of one. Then 12% more or so and you're dead. But like all 60-40 MUs... it's definitely winnable with good spacing and reading.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Ripple]

give me a day for this. I'll write up something