Character Discussion Thread

[Sonic Poke]

Alright, I can understand expecting Ridley, but...

It kind of bothers me when people say that Sakurai is intentionally "trolling" or "teasing".
He clearly hinted at Ridley as a boss character. I doubt that the meant to give any other impression.

While it's possible that Ridley is playable, Sakurai isn't really trying to tease anyone.

I'm pretty sure Ridley is a stage hazard as I'm pretty sure Toon Link is a stage element. Anyway I may be wrong.

 

[N3ON]

Doubt it. Considering how popular the WFT became, I don't expect a ROB situation to happen with the Chorus Men. Rather, I expect there to be a legion of people declaring them an obvious, unique and desirable choice and for the importance of representing Rhythm Heaven to be heavily argued. You know, just like the way the WFT was declared an obvious, unique and desirable choice whose inclusion helps to represent an important game after her reveal wowed.

Or like the way Rosalina was widely declared an obvious, unique and desirable choice whose inclusion helps to represent an important part of Mario history after her reveal wowed people.

Or like the way Greninja was declared an obvious, unique and desirable choice whose inclusion was"necessary" to represent the newest Generation as people will argue that a newcomer Pokemon character was "needed"-all after his reveal wowed people.

Uh... yeah that'd be nice, but that's not going to happen. Smash fans are not that rational. WFT and the Chorus Men both share aspects that cause Smash fans to rage and whine, such as no one expecting them and few wanting them immediately upon learning of them - as it's "another spot taken away from a more deserving character" to use common ideology - however the WFT was revealed right at the beginning - and therefore subjected less to being called a spot stealer (as there was still an open-ended roster full of possibilities at that time). On the other hand, Chorus men will likely be the last or next-to-last newcomer to be revealed, and even if it's unfair, it will act not only as a character unexpected and relatively undemanded, which people are usually iffy on anyway (to say the least), but it will be a nail-in-the-coffin to many for not only a specific newcomer they wanted, but any newcomers past that. They'll say "we ended the roster with this? This undeserving waste of a spot?". And the rage will pile on not just due to what the character is, but what the character isn't.

Which sure, isn't rational, but like I said, Smash fans aren't rational. Well, many aren't. Chorus Men won't deserve the hate, they'll probably be a unique and interesting character, but so was ROB. If ROB had not been revealed at the end but much earlier he wouldn't have been the scapegoat, and neither would the Chorus Men. WFT could just as easily have taken this position too if she was to be revealed right at the end. Timing actually does matter a lot. The only thing that will thankfully temper the reaction a bit is that now we're expecting the Chorus Men due to the leak, so it won't catch as many off-guard. However many still aren't familiar with the leak, they don't follow as closely, so there will still be some sort of backlash greater than the usual when it happens.

And yeah people will warm up to Chorus Men eventually as they do pretty much all characters, but it won't happen immediately. It didn't happen immediately with WFT either.

And as for Rosalina and Greninja, yeah they were unexpected, but you throw the masses a Mario or Pokemon character and they're bound to clap their hands. Those are the two series they request the most characters from anyway.

 

[Xenorange]

I'm sure we're not going to end up agreeing at any point, so I think we can just close this off and agree to disagree. Personally 1v4 isn't what I want from the Pokémon representation, but of course at the end of the day this is just trying to have excuses to include either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo, and I do understand why you would prefer one over the other.

Yeah, I agree and I respect your opinion of liking Jiggs. She is cute after all :D.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai said they're trying to add in as many as possible, so the Brawl ones are easy to bring over. As Eggman would say, the more the merrier.

But...Eggman would say that "they" say that, and we know that's what "they" say.

My head hurts now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Every thread is the Official Gematsu Discussion Thread now.

Some people will believe anything they read.

 

[Weeman]

Uh... yeah that'd be nice, but that's not going to happen. Smash fans are not that rational. WFT and the Chorus Men both share aspects that cause Smash fans to rage and whine, such as no one expecting them and few wanting them immediately upon learning of them - as it's "another spot taken away from a more deserving character" to use common ideology - however the WFT was revealed right at the beginning - and therefore subjected less to being called a spot stealer (as there was still an open-ended roster full of possibilities at that time). On the other hand, Chorus men will likely be the last or next-to-last newcomer to be revealed, and even if it's unfair, it will act not only as a character unexpected and relatively undemanded, which people are usually iffy on anyway (to say the least), but it will be a nail-in-the-coffin to many for not only a specific newcomer they wanted, but any newcomers past that. They'll say "we ended the roster with this? This undeserving waste of a spot?". And the rage will pile on not just due to what the character is, but what the character isn't.

Which sure, isn't rational, but like I said, Smash fans aren't rational. Well, many aren't. Chorus Men won't deserve the hate, they'll probably be a unique and interesting character, but so was ROB. If ROB had not been revealed at the end but much earlier he wouldn't have been the scapegoat, and neither would the Chorus Men. WFT could just as easily have taken this position too if she was to be revealed right at the end. Timing actually does matter a lot. The only thing that will thankfully temper the reaction a bit is that now we're expecting the Chorus Men due to the leak, so it won't catch as many off-guard. However many still aren't familiar with the leak, they don't follow as closely, so there will still be some sort of backlash greater than the usual when it happens.

And yeah people will warm up to Chorus Men eventually as they do pretty much all characters, but it won't happen immediately. It didn't happen immediately with WFT either.

And as for Rosalina and Greninja, yeah they were unexpected, but you throw the masses a Mario or Pokemon character and they're bound to clap their hands. Those are the two series they request the most characters from anyway.

I think the reason for this is that, at least here on smashboards, people seem to gravitate towards more established characters with established abilities and more complete "universes" if that makes any sense, i mean look at how much people support Isaac, Shulk (even before the leak), characters from Advance Wars, who knows how many Fire Emblem characters and even a third Mother character, even if none of those franchises are technically more succesful than Rythm Heaven, Wii Fit or even Brain Age. If i had to guess i'd that the reason for this is the nature of those series themselves, all of wich are mini game oriented, without a lot of really iconic locations or music, and whose characters are usually liked more for memetic reasons, wich is not a bad thing, but my point is that most people here simply didn't seem so supportive of characters from those franchises even if we all knew that they were going to be represented in this game one way or another.

 

[AEMehr]

Some people will believe anything they read.

Some avert their eyes from the truth as well.

At the end of the day even if the Gematsu Leak is false: the Sneaky Spirit in Smash Run should suggest that a Rhythm Heaven character appearing is very probable, Chrom is one of the main heroes from the Fire Emblem game that saved the franchise and a stage from that title is present in Smash, and Xenoblade Chronicles led the way for all three titles of Project Rainfall and was by far the best received and most requested title to be localized.

edit: I just realized I only supported the Chorus Kids so I added Chrom and Shulk support too.

 

[N3ON]

Yes, character-driven series or series with clear cut protagonists generally do find a fanbase to rally behind a character more easily, especially since in the past those have by an large made up almost all of the Smash inclusions, series that didn't place a huge focus on characters usually were represented through other means. It seems things are being switched up a bit this time... which is a bit polarizing I'd say.

I'd prefer the popular and/or iconic characters, the protagonists or major characters become the playable ones, and the series that really aren't character-driven at all find representation through other content, as this is a series that places a huge amount of attention on its characters (I'd also prefer the character focus to be more general and all-encompassing instead of the post-Brawl bent the newcomers seem to be coming from this time), but there's logic behind both I suppose.

 

[Joe D.]

This whole Gematsu discussion is why I despise leaks.

They ruin the surprise and value of some of the aspects of any game. Not to mention, they bring in a whole swarm of tedious debate that does not stop until the truth is brought out and even then people will still debate about how right the leak was and whether they agreed from the beginning.

I really wish information could just stay secret, but I know it's too much to ask.

And before you give me trouble about, "Y DON U STAY OFF TEH FORUMZ LMAO LOL ZMASH IZ FUN," think about this: i'm not depriving myself of internet leisure time for information. It's also painfully difficult to avoid when the sites and all of the social media I follow spreads the leak like a rash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This whole Gematsu discussion is why I despise leaks.

They ruin the surprise and value of some of the aspects of any game. Not to mention, they bring in a whole swarm of tedious debate that does not stop until the truth is brought out and even then people will still debate about how right the leak was and whether they agreed from the beginning.

I really wish information could just stay secret, but I know it's too much to ask.

And before you give me trouble about, "Y DON U STAY OFF TEH FORUMZ LMAO LOL ZMASH IZ FUN," think about this: i'm not depriving myself of internet leisure time for information. It's also painfully difficult to avoid when the sites and all of the social media I follow spreads the leak like a rash.

I wasn't going to say anything like that.

Rather, I was going to say that I don't think it's the fact that there has been leaks by someone legitimate that is causing the negativity as much as it is who was leaked to be part of the roster by someone with inside info.

I can guarantee you that had someone like K. Rool and Mewtwo been leaked instead of someone like, say, Chrom by Sal, far fewer people around here would have brought up the possibility of them being switched out despite being hypothetically planned. Heck, had there been anyone who was generally perceived to be more likely to be in than someone "random" like the Chorus Men, there would have been far less heated debates.

There's a reason why far fewer people question Shulk than Chrom despite the fact that both are equally likely in light of this leak.

 

[Weeman]

I wasn't going to say anything like that.

Rather, I was going to say that I don't think it's the fact that there has been leaks by someone legitimate that is causing the negativity as much as it is who was leaked to be part of the roster by someone with inside info.

I can guarantee you that had someone like K. Rool and Mewtwo been leaked instead of someone like, say, Chrom by Sal, far fewer people around here would have brought up the possibility of them being switched out despite being hypothetically planned. Heck, had there been anyone who was generally perceived to be more likely to be in than someone "random" like the Chorus Men, there would have been far less heated debates.

There's a reason why far fewer people question Shulk than Chrom despite the fact that both are equally likely in light of this leak.

Not really, i mean it's true that most people would be happier with the leaks if they had the characters they wanted, but some people just hate getting spoiled, regarless of who the newcomers are.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Personally I'm happy that it leaked, otherwise E3 would have been way more horrible for me, thanks to the leak I was able to steel myself for the inevitable Pac-Man and Mii announcements. If the characters I want aren't in the game I'm happy to know as early as possible, and this seems to be exactly the case here.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

To be honest, the Gematsu leak pretty much stole any hype I had for Palutena, Shulk, and Chrom. They're all characters I kind of liked, but just hearing about them for so long.... I don't know. I was happy with the Mii Fighters and Pac-Man, because I wasn't hyped for them. When I first saw Palutena, my first thought was "boring." I'm guessing my reaction will be similar with Shulk and Chrom. Chorus Kids(Or Men or whatever) are a different case. I'm looking forward to them because they're just...different I guess. So many newcomers so far have been humans or close to human. Greninja and Pac-Man are the exceptions(and maybe Villager because of the artstyle). The Chorus Kids look different enough, plus they represent Rhythm Heaven. They're also freaking adorable. Still would have been more hyped for them if they were revealed without the leak though.

(Gematsu Leak also screws over my most wanted list)

 

[Starcutter]

I don't like leaks they kill all fun once we find a good one.


I agree with @ Headcrab Jackalope

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel like a cheater when I put Fematsu characters in my roster, but at least I feel accomplished to have Shulk in my roster before he was leaked, I felt really accomplished.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This whole Gematsu discussion is why I despise leaks.

They ruin the surprise and value of some of the aspects of any game. Not to mention, they bring in a whole swarm of tedious debate that does not stop until the truth is brought out and even then people will still debate about how right the leak was and whether they agreed from the beginning.

I really wish information could just stay secret, but I know it's too much to ask.

And before you give me trouble about, "Y DON U STAY OFF TEH FORUMZ LMAO LOL ZMASH IZ FUN," think about this: i'm not depriving myself of internet leisure time for information. It's also painfully difficult to avoid when the sites and all of the social media I follow spreads the leak like a rash.

Pretty much this 100%. I don't trust leaks by any means.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I see there's further discussion of everyone's favourite demon roster. So how about a hypothetical Chrom trailer? How would it go? Would it be epic? Would it be comical? Would it be in 3D? Would it be in stylished art? Would it involve Marth? Ike? Jigglypuff? Frederick as a cameo? Kellam?

 

[Autumn ♫]

I see there's further discussion of everyone's favourite demon roster. So how about a hypothetical Chrom trailer? How would it go? Would it be epic? Would it be comical? Would it be in 3D? Would it be in stylished art? Would it involve Marth? Ike? Jigglypuff? Frederick as a cameo? Kellam?

Kellam would probably be somewhere in the background, but nobody would ever notice him.

 

[N3ON]

My main gripe about the leak, apart from some of the characters I'm less than taken with, is that there's no more surprise. Or at least not very much. If we get a newcomer trailer I don't think "OMG who could it be?" I think "which one of the four/five/six remaining newcomers will this one be?". Sure it's cool to see them actually in Smash, but the impact is minimized. :/

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

My main gripe about the leak, apart from some of the characters I'm less than taken with, is that there's no more surprise. Or at least not very much. If we get a newcomer trailer I don't think "OMG who could it be?" I think "which one of the four/five/six remaining newcomers will this one be?". Sure it's cool to see them actually in Smash, but it does take away from the surprise. :/

Although there is still a possibility of more than is on the list (see: Rosalina).

 

[N3ON]

Although there is still a possibility of more than is on the list (see: Rosalina).

It's possible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Baskerville]

I'm happy the leak actually got out, I would've been way more negative about the Miis if it didn't. Besides I'm getting Shulk anyway so the ****stain they caused will be gone.

 

[N3ON]

Overall I do think it is best we got the leak, the Mii and Chorus Men and lack of Ridley, Mewtwo, K. Rool, etc. (assuming they don't make it) bellyaching without it would be a lot worse.

Plus who knows how long it'll be before Nintendo sees fit to announce that there will be DLC for Smash.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Plus who knows how long it'll be before Nintendo sees fit to announce that there will be DLC for Smash.

While we're on the subject, who would these DLC characters be?

 

[Baskerville]

Most likely characters that didn't make the cut.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

While we're on the subject, who would these DLC characters be?

Semi-clones and cut veterans.

 

[Starcutter]

Who even thinks that a 3 character tag team is even that unique? Referring to chorus men.

Rhythm itself is a much more unique concept that could be used with just one, Marshal in specific

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Most likely characters that didn't make the cut.

I dunno about that being the only option, Sakurai is probably gonna get himself buried in character requests when people hear there's gonna be DLC, so there has to be some way to get all those people to calm down.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think people should really shift prospective on how the 49 (technically) different characters will play out instead of focusing so much on being in denial.

Actually talking about playing the game is more interesting anyway.

 

[NickerBocker]

I dunno about that being the only option, Sakurai is probably gonna get himself buried in character requests when people hear there's gonna be DLC, so there has to be some way to get all those people to calm down.

Im sure the ones they would include as DLC are ones that were just short of making the cut or veterans. I dont know why they would add characters as DLC that little people would want, seeing as people woukd generally only buy the DLC if there was a character they wanted.

If Nintendo was smart about it, a villains pack with Mewtwo, K Rool and Ridley would generate a lot of hype, as an example.

The only exception is if a new IP becomes extremely huge and Sakurai sees the opportunity to add them, such as an Inkling from Splatoon for example.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno about that being the only option, Sakurai is probably gonna get himself buried in character requests when people hear there's gonna be DLC, so there has to be some way to get all those people to calm down.

"No, I'm not accepting Goku or Shrek as hilarious those requests are."

Boom!

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

"No, I'm not accepting Goku or Shrek as hilarious those requests are."

Boom!

This is true, but at some point, Sakurai may see some request that he likes.

 

[Louie G.]

Who even thinks that a 3 character tag team is even that unique? Referring to chorus men.

Rhythm itself is a much more unique concept that could be used with just one, Marshal in specific

I'll bite.

It's not really so much the trio aspect that makes them unique but, as you said, the rhythm aspect.
Chorus Kids can help keep rhythm better than Marshal, in my opinion. As a trio, it allows them to perform moves together, the move failing or not reaching full potential if rhythm isn't kept because all three of them need to perform the attack for it to work best.

Do you understand? In Rhythm Heaven, many minigames feature groups that keep rhythm with each other or mimic each other to succeed in the goal of the game. Chorus Kids could carry that aspect into Smash, translating the rhythm aspect flawlessly and representing many minigames from the series as well (Love Lab, Micro Row, and Tap Troupe are included in my almost-complete moveset, for example).

Being a trio lends itself to keeping rhythm pretty well, much more than a singular character in my opinion.

Plus, Chorus Kids are actually music based.

 

[Morbi]

I think people should really shift prospective on how the 49 (technically) different characters will play out instead of focusing so much on being in denial.

Actually talking about playing the game is more interesting anyway.

So, if someone does not agree with you, they are in denial? I am sure that that perspective seems logical to someone such as yourself; however, if one were to evaluate the situation objectively (no confirmation bias) they would find that there are more possibilities than the one you (and Louie) personally believe in.

 

[Louie G.]

So, if someone does not agree with you, they are in denial? I am sure that that perspective seems logical to someone such as yourself; however, if one were to evaluate the situation objectively (no confirmation bias) they would find that there are more possibilities than the one you (and Louie) personally believe in.

I liked that mainly because I agree, gameplay and movesets are a LOT more fun to discuss than which characters are in.

You don't have to believe Gematsu, just know that's pretty much what everyone will be talking about until release.

Sal never said that those were the last newcomers, so even with the leak in mind there's still some room for speculation.

 

[AncientTobacco]

so even with the leak in mind there's still some room for speculation.

Too bad that room is vacant.

You don't have to believe Gematsu, just know that's pretty much what everyone will be talking about until release.

Yep, and I'll be blaming you guys for killing speculation when the leak gets deconfirmed.

 

[False Sense]

I liked that mainly because I agree, gameplay and movesets are a LOT more fun to discuss than which characters are in.

You don't have to believe Gematsu, just know that's pretty much what everyone will be talking about until release.

Sal never said that those were the last newcomers, so even with the leak in mind there's still some room for speculation.

I think most of us believe that the Gematsu Leak is an actual leak at this point. Now it's more of a question of whether or not it's perfectly accurate or complete. Of course, there's a lot of ways to interpret that situation, which I suppose is the source of the majority of debate about the leak.

 

[Morbi]

I'll bite.

It's not really so much the trio aspect that makes them unique but, as you said, the rhythm aspect.
Chorus Kids can help keep rhythm better than Marshal, in my opinion. As a trio, it allows them to perform moves together, the move failing or not reaching full potential if rhythm isn't kept because all three of them need to perform the attack for it to work best.

Do you understand? In Rhythm Heaven, many minigames feature groups that keep rhythm with each other or mimic each other to succeed in the goal of the game. Chorus Kids could carry that aspect into Smash, translating the rhythm aspect flawlessly and representing many minigames from the series as well (Love Lab, Micro Row, and Tap Troupe are included in my almost-complete moveset, for example).

Being a trio lends itself to keeping rhythm pretty well, much more than a singular character in my opinion.

Plus, Chorus Kids are actually music based.

The only issue that I have with your explanation was that you have no really provided any practical, in-game examples; perhaps if you could, I would be able to envision the character better. They remind me of Ice Climbers from Melee, where you could de-sync multiple characters and use their moves (typically specials) in "rhythm" but other than that, I am not personally seeing what is so special about a "rhythm" based move-set. How is it different? I am genuinely curious as I truly want to support the Chorus Men. I am just not able to comprehend what everyone has unanimously decided as unique. Could you please clarify that for me?

The other issue is that Chorus Men are just as likely to be new and revolutionary as they are to be boring and redundant. We cannot be utterly positive until we actually see them in action. That being said, I am certainly leaning on the character being one of the most unique over one of the most boring. It is just a possibility that everyone seems to ignore.

I liked that mainly because I agree, gameplay and movesets are a LOT more fun to discuss than which characters are in.

You don't have to believe Gematsu, just know that's pretty much what everyone will be talking about until release.

Sal never said that those were the last newcomers, so even with the leak in mind there's still some room for speculation.

Precisely, if I came off as crass, it is just because I find it annoying to be called delusional simply based on the notion that one is open to something that is not the generally accepted perspective.

 

[Louie G.]

@ Morbi
Glad to share more ideas on Chorus Kids.

The main thing that differentiates them from Ice Climbers is that they wouldn't roam around on their own. I, among some other supporters, have speculated that they would be programmed as one character, albeit looking like three separate characters. This would save a lot of development time, as there's really no reason to develop them separately: they are identical in appearance and need to stick together in order to perform their attacks.

I'm working on a moveset so I'll share that when I'm finished.

 

[AncientTobacco]

@ Morbi
Glad to share more ideas on Chorus Kids.

The main thing that differentiates them from Ice Climbers is that they wouldn't roam around on their own. I, among some other supporters, have speculated that they would be programmed as one character, albeit looking like three separate characters. This would save a lot of development time, as there's really no reason to develop them separately: they are identical in appearance and need to stick together in order to perform their attacks.

I'm working on a moveset so I'll share that when I'm finished.

If they're programmed as one, then why have multiple of them in the first place?