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Character Discussion Thread

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Radical Larry

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So, let me go on about the veteran characters and tell you whether they are buffed or nerfed. Now these aren't final, and are subject to change later on as more information unfolds. This is just analysis from E3's entirety.

:4mario:Let me start off with Mario, first. It seems that he had received almost nothing, at first. However, upon further analysis, we can see that his FLUDD attack can cause hitstun to the opponents for some odd reason. His up smash seems to have gained a range increase, and so has his down smash. When Mario was using his Fireballs in the air, it seemed that they fell down much faster when compared to other games, even Brawl. He had no speed or weight buffs nor does his jumping, falling speed and air speed look like it has changed. So overall, I say he is balanced out on buffs and nerfs so far.

:4link:
Now for Link. As most of you may know, he was not one of the 16 characters chosen for the Invitational; however, he was the only character that wasn't chosen, that was part of the special matches. Now upon seeing the two matches he was in, it seems Link has received an atrocious amount of buffs. Let me get onto his attacks, first off, as we can clearly see that his Spin Attack has been reverted back to its Melee status, where you don't have to charge it, plus the momentum is practically the same as it was in Melee for the recovery. However, the good thing to note is that the recovery is much higher than before and the knockback has been increased for the attack. This isn't the only attack that received buffs, as all of his attacks, save some of his aerials, have been sped up; case in point, the F-Tilt, which looks a lot like Project M's, if you ask me, as you can see Link using it faster than Brawl's F-Tilt.

Going on, his Hero's Bow attack seems to have less charge up and end lag, making it safer for Link to use at his disposal. Finally in his specials, Link's Gale Boomerang was modified to where the gale comes out after it comes back, meaning it won't blow your opponents away when if goes for them; it also had knockback and damage increases. Now comes his most powerful attack, the Down air, and let me just say that it looks like it has much less ending lag than before, from what I've seen. It seems to have ended much sooner when I examined the attack when it came again.

Finally, Link has had a major buff in the air. His air speed seems to be the fastest ever seen for Link in a Smash Bros. game, and his falling speed the slowest we've seen for him. To combine with this, his jumps have been modified to go much higher than they used to, as we can see him easily going over Yellow Devil. So overall, Link's buffs have made him, in my own eyes, a tournament viable character.

:4kirby:
From the analysis, I see that there have barely been any buffs to Kirby. Mostly what I've seen were tweaks in attack knockback, but that's practically it. His air speed, falling speed, jumping, recovery and overall, he has stayed the same.

:4pikachu:
Other than his Down Special and Up Smash, I've yet to see him be buffed more or nerfed.

:4fox:
Fox has barely changed, and seeing further analysis, I can conclude that Fox's up tilt has indeed been buffed, but sadly, his up smash has been nerfed, so no more early ceiling KOs, I'm afraid. His down air's final hit is a force to be dealt with, as the attack will send the opponent upwards now. Fox's other attacks remain virtually the same, save his recovery, which has been buffed thanks to his buffed falling speed and air speed. Also, the Foxcopter has returned for him and betters his recovery. Despite a bit of a nerf, he seems to be buffed and retains the high tier status.

:4bowser:
Bowser has indefinitely been buffed in the next game, as he does have more dexterity than last time, especially when you see the fact that he has a speed and power increase. His air game might look a bit between Melee and Brawl, but his ground game has been buffed to where his attacks, notably his smashes, are much better and maneuverable than ever. His recovery has also seen a good buff, too. However, I'd have to address the fact that Bowser's air speed and falling speed have been nerfed, and he falls much faster and is slower in the air. As well, he doesn't seem to jump that high whatsoever. As expected, he's no better on the ground, as his walking speed is still as slow and choppy as ever, and his running speed might actually be slower than before. Overall, he may have actually been nerfed more than buffed.

:4marth:
He's just the same, plain and simple, get over it.

:4zelda:
Despite the buff to her recovery, Zelda still seems to have been nerfed somehow. Seeing my analysis, she is much easier to knock off and has a harder time to get back onto the stage. As well, her specials don't actually help her still, and her normal attacks are worse with knockback. Sadly, Zelda has been nerfed within the transitions.

:4olimar:
I really won't be talking about him, but it seems he's been split half and half.

:4pit:
The angel Pit has seen a rather good buffing in the transition. His attacks are more powerful and he has the potency to defeat his enemies at lower percentages and rack up damage quite fast, too. The removal of his glide seems to be the least of his worries now, and it seems that he may actually be better than before.

:4zss:
Yes, she's definitely been buffed. She retains everything from Brawl, but seems to have faster attacks.

This is really all I can find, everyone. If you have anything you'd like to add or if there's something I missed, tell me below.

But now for my thoughts on Pac-Man, Palutena and Mii Fighters:
In honesty, we've seen these three coming for a long time, so I'm not really surprised or anything about it. Personally, I think Palutena was the one who I liked most in the announcements.

But there's bound to be people wanting to look up her dress.
 

Sausage Zeldas

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Kirby's hammer looked slower in the air than before, but that might just be me.
Bowser's new Fsmash is faster than his old one (I'm pretty sure, at least), which is nice, I guess.
Was it just my imagination, or does ZSS' Dspecial bury opponents she lands on now? Guess they decided that she needed more ways to stop people in their tracks.

Overall, there were some specials I wanted to see that just never seemed to get any use at all.
 

DustyPumpkin

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So is G&W officially confirmed now or what?
 

Staarih

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Yep, guess we just have to wait for tomorrow for the site to update. Or it might be sometime today.
Wait, did G&W get officially revealed or are we talking about the Pac-Man trailer? As that isn't really a confirmation yet (but we all know he's in anyway).
 

Baskerville

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Wait, did G&W get officially revealed or are we talking about the Pac-Man trailer? As that isn't really a confirmation yet (but we all know he's in anyway).
I was talking about the Pacman trailer.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Yeah, I'm really happy they didn't go with creepy-eyes Pac-Man. :grin:
I thought that it was the teeth that gave modern Pac-Man a bad name.

Anyway, it seems funny that Sonic is the only 3rd party contender to be using his modern look, but this may be due to the fact that Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the first Sonic title to appear on a Nintendo console.
 

Andinus

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Well I guess with 3 new comer reveals and the release being a bit further off I must concede the roster (selection screen) will probably be more than 44 characters, I don't see the miis taking up 3 spots however, that's just dumb, in fact since they cannot be played in random online matches it makes me question whether or not they will even be on the selection screen.

But with the leak being probably real that means 3 more new comers, so 36 characters (35 if I don't count miis, because honestly they are really just one big customization option anyway). If there are no more new comers besides the leaked (which sadly I think could happen now, since I still don't think we will get more than 50 characters) and the roster is 44 that would be at least one veteran cut more than I believe is likely.

Don't get me wrong i am happy the roster is looking like more than 44 characters but I still believe that is reaching the upper limits, I must say I wish I could believe there is more room for other characters, but I'm just gonna say it... I think the Sal leak is all we are getting for newcomers, so yes that means, I don't see mewtwo (unless jiggs is cut), K Rool, Ridley, whoever else people are saying, and worst of all.. Simon Belmont :troll:
 

Makaronileo

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Fox, Olimar, Sonic and Pikachu are now confirmed to have their old final smash return.
Zamus seems to be the only one who have a new Fs. U know anything about this guys?
 

Miffa

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Fox, Olimar, Sonic and Pikachu are now confirmed to have their old final smash return.
Zamus seems to be the only one who have a new Fs. U know anything about this guys?
I heard somewhere that Sonic has super sonic again.
 

Rebellious Treecko

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I heard that Greninja was chosen by Sakurai back when it was concept art.
What's even more interesting is that I also heard that Sakurai said he was looking for a Pokemon from X and Y in general before picking Greninja.

If that's real, then it brings up an interesting topic.

Would that mean that Sakurai was looking for recency in that case, rather than a character that could bring something new to the table?

---
 
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AncientTobacco

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So is G&W officially confirmed now or what?
All but. I imagine he'll be added to the site in the upcoming weeks, probably after a PotD where Sakurai mentions him being shown off in the trailer and how he's as old as Pac-Man.
Anyway, it seems funny that Sonic is the only 3rd party contender to be using his modern look, but this may be due to the fact that Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the first Sonic title to appear on a Nintendo console.
I think modern Sonic is definitely more associated with Nintendo than the classic design. It might even be his more iconic look at this point, unlike with Mega Man and Pac-Man. Gameplay reasons may also be a factor (long legs give him more reach etc.).
Fox, Olimar, Sonic and Pikachu are now confirmed to have their old final smash return.
Zamus seems to be the only one who have a new Fs. U know anything about this guys?
Giga Bowser is confirmed back as well.
 

Louie G.

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Happy to see Pac-Man generally received well.

I love his design and he looks really amazing and unique.
It really shuts down the naysayers in the best way possible.

Snake's chances are...
Kinda dead to me though.
 
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Cobalsh

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I didn't want Snake anyway. If he's gone, then so be it. Ivysaur and Squirtle are all but deconfirmed, too. So that's... three cuts, four if Gematsu is true.
 

Leafeon523

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I really think they missed a great opportunity by not showing someone at the end of the invitational. Even a veteran like Captain Falcon would have been fantastic.
 

Oblivion129

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What's even more interesting is that I also heard that Sakurai said he was looking for a Pokemon from X and Y in general before picking Greninja.

If that's real, then it brings up an interesting topic.

Would that mean that Sakurai was looking for recency in that case, rather than a character that could bring something new to the table?
---
Probably both.
Anyways, it seems to explain why the leaker said "Pokemon from X/Y"
@BluePikmin11 where did you get that last leak about Lucas being cut?
 

Rockaphin

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I too didn't care for Snake. This was due to me not ever playing Metal Gear and I personally didn't like his moveset. . . But I do think his chances are extremely low now, as I find four 3rd party characters extremely unlikely. DLC would be his best shot IMO.

I was really hoping Bowser would have a different final smash. Anyone know if Mario still has his awful Final Smash?

Also, I'm disappointed that many characters use the same sounds. Even the frickin' menu. Anyway, I hope this was just for the demo.
 

shinhed-echi

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I'm a little dissapointed that that there were no surprise charactters at this E3. Palutena, Miis, and Pac-Man were literally the three most likely characters.
This.
Even though all three characters looked awesome, I was kinda sad to see no real surprise characters. :(

On the other hand, I am pretty excited and disappointed at the fact that the 3DS version releases in October.
Disappointed for the wait.
Excited because there may be more time to squeeze a few more characters in there, or at least complete ones that already started, so they don't end like Mewtwo in Brawl.
 

Cobalsh

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Yeah. I feel bad for people who wanted Snake, but honestly I don't really care about his exclusion.
It would've been hilarious if Gray Fox busted out of an Assist Trophy during the Invitational, and then there would be an awkward silence, and Sakurai would walk onto the stage and have to confirm Snake's inclusion.
 

Maxilian

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I really think they missed a great opportunity by not showing someone at the end of the invitational. Even a veteran like Captain Falcon would have been fantastic.
I still think Captain Falcon won't be shown :drshrug:

I didn't want Snake anyway. If he's gone, then so be it. Ivysaur and Squirtle are all but deconfirmed, too. So that's... three cuts, four if Gematsu is true.
I want Snake back... but that's mostly cause i don't like cuts :dr-_-:, also.... Gematsu leak said that Lucas was going to be cut? :drohmy:
 
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Cobalsh

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I still Captain Falcon won't be shown :drshrug:



I want Snake back... but that's mostly cause i don't like cuts :dr-_-:, also.... Gematsu leak said that Lucas was going to be cut? :drohmy:
The leak said that the dev team would have to pick between Ness and Lucas, and they will pick Ness. So yeah. That's what it says, and it sucks.
 

Oniric Spriter

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The thing with Snake is that the lack of games on Nintendo consoles doesn't help at all, I mean, if they were games that were exclusive or just not ports and remakes at least even I myself would be a supporter, but just MGS: Twin Snakes and Snake eater (two games I own and that the originals came waaaaaaay long ago) aren't enough for me to feel emotionally attached to characters like him, I still think he's a PS all star.
Don't get me wrong, he was ok for Brawl, but having him in SSB4 would be too much.
 

shinhed-echi

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Ok so if Sal's leak is true, and only 1 between Lucas or Ness can get in...

And if LeakerBros turns out to be true, confirming that Lucas is in...

Then that means Ness gets the boot. :p
 

ChunkyBeef

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Ok so if Sal's leak is true, and only 1 between Lucas or Ness can get in...

And if LeakerBros turns out to be true, confirming that Lucas is in...

Then that means Ness gets the boot. :p
Didn't everyone pretty much agree that the LeakerBros guy was full of crap? ;)
 

shinhed-echi

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Didn't everyone pretty much agree that the LeakerBros guy was full of crap? ;)
He certainly sounds full of crap. But has there been anything so far that disproves him?

...ok well, now that I mention it... There's no signs of a Hades/Ganon trailer. Nor do I think that's happening so...

edit: (don't judge me, I just want it to be true, lol, even if it's clearly utopic)

---

Alright so... um...

:4sonic: Seems like he's remained the same. The only difference I could get is that his Usmash actually KOs now.
:4samus: Is FAST. She falls faster at least. Seems stronger compared to Brawl as well. Charge Shot nerfed?
:4zelda: I couldn't notice much, but her Din's Fire has that Melee lag once again.
:4zss: She seems a bit better in every way possible. Her air game is faster, but that might be because overall everyone falls a bit faster this time around.
 
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MasterMushroom

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He certainly sounds full of crap. But has there been anything so far that disproves him?

...ok well, now that I mention it... There's no signs of a Hades/Ganon trailer. Nor do I think that's happening so...

edit: (don't judge me, I just want it to be true, lol, even if it's clearly utopic)
He got Palutena and Miis right on the mark. If Robin is in, he will get some credibility and sal will get blown out. If he doesn't, he will be ignored (as if he isn't ignored enough already). Knowing Sakurai, sal is right. It would honestly be best for him to work on newer franchises and leave Hal with smash bros. After all, they deserve as much credit for the series.

I trust them with the series than anyone else
 

Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur

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If you went back in time and told your ten year old self that, one day, he'd be playing a fighting game with Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man and Mega Man, he'd probably have laughed you right back to your time machine.

Trust me, my ten year old self would've done the same.
Your ten year old selves sound remarkably cynical for children that age. :p
My ten year old self probably would have wondered who the heck Mega Man was as I went running to my parents to tell them about the crazy stranger who had approached me.
 

shinhed-echi

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He got Palutena and Miis right on the mark. If Robin is in, he will get some credibility and sal will get blown out. If he doesn't, he will be ignored (as if he isn't ignored enough already). Knowing Sakurai, sal is right. It would honestly be best for him to work on newer franchises and leave Hal with smash bros. After all, they deserve as much credit for the series.

I trust them with the series than anyone else
I fear that LB is just leeching off Sal, so we'll have to wait until either Chrom or Robin is revealed to see who was right in the end.
Or maybe they're both right... but 4 F.E. reps is overkill, when so many IPs haven't even been given a first look. :p
 

Pacack

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View attachment 15957
Here is my update roster
I criticize your lack of Takamaru.

Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics,MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.​

So he seems to be planning on adding a retro. And Takamaru's been referenced a lot recently and just had his game released overseas in Europe (without any translation, from what I understand), with a suspicious lack of any news on a North American release. The stars are aligning for him.
 

shinhed-echi

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I criticize your lack of Takamaru.
Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics,MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.

So he seems to be planning on adding a retro. And Takamaru's been referenced a lot recently and just had his game released overseas in Europe (without any translation, from what I understand), with a suspicious lack of any news on a North American release. The stars are aligning for him.



That delicious moment when Sakurai finally heard the word StarTropics for the first time. :D
But yeah, things are building up for Takamaru in a Marvel sort of way.
I hope we get to see at least two more retro newcomers. This game already has pretty much every popular face in there. Sans Ridley perhaps.
 

Pacack

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That delicious moment when Sakurai finally heard the word StarTropics for the first time. :D
But yeah, things are building up for Takamaru in a Marvel sort of way.
I hope we get to see at least two more retro newcomers. This game already has pretty much every popular face in there. Sans Ridley perhaps.
If we take the Sal leak to be legitimate, we have Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Kids. That's three more newcomers.

Along with that we have (arguably) Ridley's teasing, the Kremlings in Smash Run, Mewtwo being mentioned by Sakurai, and Takamaru's position.

I wouldn't be surprised if those are our seven remaining newcomers (if you can call Mewtwo a newcomer).
 

TylerBlackRunIt

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I criticize your lack of Takamaru.

Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics,MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.​

So he seems to be planning on adding a retro. And Takamaru's been referenced a lot recently and just had his game released overseas in Europe (without any translation, from what I understand), with a suspicious lack of any news on a North American release. The stars are aligning for him.
4DS Roster.png
 
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I know that their positions are quite different (one being a veteran fighter, the other yet to be a fighter in Smash), but considering Mr. Game & Watch was featured at the end of Pac-Man's trailer and hasn't been directly announced as a fighter, could that mean that Dark Pit, who was "crashing Palutena's party" at the end of her trailer, could still be announced as his own fighter later like G&W?

It just seems rather peculiar....especially with this old Twitter image Sakurai made oddly specific denial that it was related to Smash....
 
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