Character Discussion Thread

[Will]

So, you've never played Galaga? Try again.

Those are the aliens, not the spaceship bud.

To be honest,I have.

I just really suck at it.

 

[Fools Requiem]

Really guys? Pacman? I think Nintendo needs to go deep into it's library and find some obscure character like how they did with Ice Climbers and Game&Watch before going further into third party territory.

How about the characters from Wrecking Crew or Balloon Fight?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Trust me, I don't think anybody will except CliffJumper and half of Miiverse.

Nah, I wouldn't mind either tbh with ya, it's just one desire I have, I still have Palutena, Krystal, Shulk, and Chrom to count on

 

[False Sense]

Nah, I wouldn't mind either tbh with ya, it's just one desire I have, I still have Palutena, Krystal, Shulk, and Chrom to count on

I'd say you could only really depend on Palutena. Chrom is pretty likely, but there exists a chance another Awakening character could get in, Shulk is fairly likely, and Krystal is just pretty unlikely at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

Really guys? Pacman? I think Nintendo needs to go deep into it's library and find some obscure character like how they did with Ice Climbers and Game&Watch before going further into third party territory.

How about the characters from Wrecking Crew or Balloon Fight?

Wario as Foreman Spike!!!

 

[Radical Bones]

I'd say you could only really depend on Palutena. Chrom is pretty likely, but there exists a chance another Awakening character could get in, Shulk is fairly likely, and Krystal is just pretty unlikely at this point.

I couldn't see anyone but Chrom from Awakening getting in. He's the main character. Lucina and Robin are secondary.

 

[False Sense]

I couldn't see anyone but Chrom from Awakening getting in. He's the main character. Lucina and Robin are secondary.

That's pretty debatable, but I think this thread is sick to death of Fire Emblem now.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

That's pretty debatable, but I think this thread is sick to death of Fire Emblem now.

Pretty much, they're also sick of all the debates about Krystal as well.

 

[Phaazoid]

I'd say you could only really depend on Palutena. Chrom is pretty likely, but there exists a chance another Awakening character could get in, Shulk is fairly likely, and Krystal is just pretty unlikely at this point.

If there's one character I hope isn't in the game most, it's Palutena

It's not because I hate her as a character. I mean, I don't really want her, but it's mainly because I don't think Kid Icarus deserves a second rep.

The reason she's top of my list is because so much of these boards treat her as such a freaken' shoe in, I'd just love to watch the ****storm.

But after that trophy fakeout in the direct, I've had to begrudgingly accept that Sakurai has at least acknowledged her...

 

[IsmaR]

That's pretty debatable, but I think this thread is sick to death of Fire Emblem now.

It's sick of absolutely all characters/discussions at this point. But we refuse to shut up until E3, so here we are.

Swords are clearly the main characters of Fire Emblem, anyway.

If there's one character I hope isn't in the game most, it's Palutena

It's not because I hate her as a character. I mean, I don't really want her, but it's mainly because I don't think Kid Icarus deserves a second rep.

The reason she's top of my list is because so much of these boards treat her as such a freaken' shoe in, I'd just love to watch the ****storm.

For that same reason I want a character people have "given up on/are 99% sure they're not in" to be revealed.

I don't count Greninja because that was so left field that and no one really cared that much for it prior to the reveal.

 

[False Sense]

If there's one character I hope isn't in the game most, it's Palutena

It's not because I hate her as a character. I mean, I don't really want her, but it's mainly because I don't think Kid Icarus deserves a second rep.

The reason she's top of my list is because so much of these boards treat her as such a freaken' shoe in, I'd just love to watch the ****storm.

But after that trophy fakeout in the direct, I've had to begrudgingly accept that Sakurai has at least acknowledged her...

I can relate to this. Not necessarily with Palutena, but with other characters and leaks that people treat as absolute shoo-ins, even though there are no such thing as guarantees. It can get very tiring at times, can't it?

 

[Phaazoid]

For that same reason I want a character people have "given up on/are 99% sure they're not in" to be revealed.

I don't count Greninja because that was so left field that and no one really cared that much for it prior to the reveal.

I'm trying to think of the best example of this kind of character. Most of the ones that have been given up on have been because they've been outright confirmed as assist trophies

Toad maybe? That'd be hilarious, IMO. I wouldn't mind him as playable, either, honestly.

maybe ivysaur, or squirtle, too.

I can relate to this. Not necessarily with Palutena, but with other characters and leaks that people treat as absolute shoo-ins, even though there are no such thing as guarantees. It can get very tiring at times, can't it?

when I hang out on the boards for too long I sometimes forget other opinions exist. A lot of my friends haven't even heard of Palutena, and still don't recognize the name after the direct.

and if i even try to talk about Ridley theories to them they just call me the illuminati

 

[IsmaR]

I'm trying to think of the best example of this kind of character. Most of the ones that have been given up on have been because they've been outright confirmed as assist trophies

Toad maybe? That'd be hilarious, IMO. I wouldn't mind him as playable, either, honestly.

maybe ivysaur, or squirtle, too.

Was moreso referring to "expendable" veterans, specifically the 2 you mentioned, Snake, like every semi-clone, Jiggs, R.O.B. and ICs.

Would also be lovely to see Toad or Ridley pulling an Alfonzo, of course.

 

[Phaazoid]

Was moreso referring to "expendable" veterans, specifically the 2 you mentioned, Snake, like every semi-clone, Jiggs, R.O.B. and ICs.

Would also be lovely to see Toad or Ridley pulling an Alfonzo, of course.

I have trouble seeing characters like rob, IC, and jiggs expendable, but I guess there's some bias speaking there. Cutting characters is always a taboo imo, Even snake I only doubt because of weird 3rd party stuff. But I went super hypocritical on that point as soon as solo charizard was announced, I guess, so I may have to rethink my stances there.

 

[Deleted member]

It's purely a nostalgia thing.

It's basically the same reason why apparently the classic version of Sonic is better then the modern version of Sonic.

The difference is that Sonic's modern design is actually better than his classic design; it reflects his personality more and he looks cooler. Same with everyone other characters from Sonic. I don't mind the design from classic Sonic, but I agree that they're overrated.

Pac-Man's new design is honestly kind of creepy. I don't like the smile and Pac-Man looks robotic. I'd say give him his Pac-Man World Design just so that I don't have to look at the subpar new image. But then again, gameplay will be the judge of Pac-Man.

 

[IsmaR]

I have trouble seeing characters like rob, IC, and jiggs expendable, but I guess there's some bias speaking there.

ICs because of the technical limitations hinted at forever ago (since then Rosalina kinda **** all over that "problem"), R.O.B. because people who never got over his inclusion/still think him being in was a stupid call, and Jiggs because muh relevancy and "POKEMON CAN'T HAVE MORE REPS THAN MARIO/she should have never been added to begin with/insert other rep is better," etc..

 

[Xzsmmc]

If there's one character I hope isn't in the game most, it's Palutena

It's not because I hate her as a character. I mean, I don't really want her, but it's mainly because I don't think Kid Icarus deserves a second rep.

The reason she's top of my list is because so much of these boards treat her as such a freaken' shoe in, I'd just love to watch the ****storm.

But after that trophy fakeout in the direct, I've had to begrudgingly accept that Sakurai has at least acknowledged her...

You, I like you. I'm in the same boat in thinking KI doesn't deserve a second character at this point in time. If we get a new KI character, but not a new DK one, I'll be furious.

 

[Bauske]

lets try out.

View attachment 14147
whoa is true.

EDIT: @Gingerbread Man i got ninjaed D:

Oh my gosh what have I done? Hahaha I said I wouldn't start any more Pac-Man discussion and LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!

Well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Honestly, you guys had some really awesome ideas and design changes, and yeah, even though I still really enjoy the Ghostly Adventures look, I can understand and see what you guys mean and why some would view him as creepier compared to older models. But I think the model @Sobreviviente made is just absolutely perfect and is freaking adorable!

I'm glad it seems like more people are turning their minds to Pac-Man's inclusion, but in the end, I'm just still hoping he gets in. E3 is gonna be the deciding factor, and it's only three weeks away. It's so hard to wait!

Also, again, thanks you guys for all the discussion and positive posts. It may just seem like casual conversation to you guys, but it honestly made my night. :D

 

[Rockaphin]

You, I like you. I'm in the same boat in thinking KI doesn't deserve a second character at this point in time. If we get a new KI character, but not a new DK one, I'll be furious.

I'm not going to say Kid Icarus doesn't deserve another character, but I'll agree that Donkey Kong deserves one waaay before KI. I'd be furious as well.

 

[Shorts]

I do see a threat to Jigglypuff, but it's probably nothing to really worry about. Because Jiggly will be included over Mewtwo if push came to shove.

And you all know it.

 

[Deleted member]

So how bout that! We can also be the Female Villager (Though it didn't surprise me )

 

[Shorts]

So how bout that! We can also be the Female Villager (Though it didn't surprise me )

The wire frame mac will REALLY GRIND MY GEARS if we don't end up getting SS Zelda.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

You know, I really don't understand why I see so many people predicting that Ice Climbers and R.O.B. will be cut. I can remember during the Brawl speculation days that people expected Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, and Mr. Game & Watch to be cut, and I didn't get that, either.

Here are my two cents on who I think is and is not in danger of being cut. Firstly, let's look at who did not make the jump from Melee to Brawl, and why.
Dr. Mario made, and still makes, perfect sense as a cut (and Doc mains, I mean no offense, so please don't take any), because everything about him screamed filler. An alternate version of an existing character who was added to the roster purely because it was easy to implement. Now, I know there are all sorts of little technical differences between doctor and plumber Mario, but the fact is, he was a glorified alternate costume, and there were much more interesting candidates vying for spot in Brawl. That said, I do truly hope Mario gets an alternate doctor costume in Smash 4, and I will be genuinely surprised if that doesn't happen, just as I was disappointed that did not happen in Brawl.

Young Link only barely qualifies as a cut, in my opinion. We still had a young Link in Brawl, he was just updated to represent newer games in the series. Again, I'm sure there are technical differences and that Young Link mains will swear that the Young version is superior to the Toon version, but I'm talking about relevance. When Brawl was released, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were old news. Twilight Princess, The Wind Waker, and Phantom Hourglass were newer.

Characters are included in Smash Bros. for many reasons, and the biggest reasons are probably to tap into people's sense of nostalgia to help hype up the game, and to promote other games, the games that the characters are drawn from. Case in point, the fact that most character pages on the official Smash 4 website link to other game websites. In part, they are advertisements, encouraging Smash fans to buy other games, and encouraging fans of other games to buy Smash. And it works! I was introduced to Metroid, EarthBound, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem and so many other games by Smash Bros. And I bought them. Smash Bros. 64 was the game that got me interested in Pokemon as a kid.
Which brings me to my next point: Pichu, and Roy. Both characters were included to promote the newest games in their respective series. We know Sakurai doesn't have complete control over which characters make the cut. During Melee's development, he would have met with Game Freak and Intelligent Systems to discuss which of their characters to include. Marth was the obvious choice to represent Fire Emblem, because he's the face of the series and the most enduringly popular character, just as Pikachu is for Pokemon. Roy and Pichu seem more like they were thrown in as promo characters.
When Brawl came around, I would imagine Sakurai probably wanted to bring them back, if only to keep from letting down their fans (based on his comments, I don't think he wants to cut characters, he just has to, for one reason or another). But, I imagine he was asked to please include Ike/Lucario, because they were from newer games and were more popular, not to mention more likely to sell games. I get the very distinct impression that Sakurai works very closely with The Pokemon Company to decide which characters to include and how they will play.
Which explains why Mewtwo was not in Brawl. At the time, Mewtwo was the only cut that I wasn't expecting, and actually the only cut I wasn't okay with, but looking back, I can see how much sense it made. Now, given more development time, sure, he may have been included, but the fact that he wasn't says to me that the Pokemon Company, and likely not Sakurai, passed him and Pichu over in favor of more relevant, more exciting Pokemon.

As far as Smash Bros. 4 goes, I think the Pokemon reps will once again be the ones that can best move units. Pikachu is the series mascot and indisputably the most popular and recognizable Pokemon of all time. Charizard is also extremely popular and appeals to both older fans of the series who remember him from the Red and Blue days, as well as current fans who know him and his Mega Evolutions from X and Y. Charizard is a starter Pokemon with a new Mega Evolution in those games purely because they are such a nostalgic and popular breed, and Charizard is in Smash for the same reasons. His inclusion will sell games. Lucario is back for similar reasons. He and his Mega form are promoting X and Y, as is Greninja, who is probably the best choice for a new X and Y rep.
Personally, I think both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo will return, with some changes. Jigglypuff can promote the new Fairy type with some new moves, and Mewtwo will not only further promote X and Y's Mega Evolution mechanic, but also help to hype Smash 4. Think about it. Mewtwo was the first Pokemon used to hype up the whole Mega Evolution concept and X and Y as a whole, and is currently one of the most popular and most requested Pokemon for SSB.
Six Pokemon. A full team. I will be utterly shocked if I am wrong.

And, I (mostly) expect Ike to return, as well. Fire Emblem is popular enough now to have three or more reps, and Marth and Ike both appeared in Awakening. Marth was more prominent, to be sure, and Chrom could possibly take part of Ike's moveset, which does endanger Ike a bit, but if we can have Fox, Falco, and Wolf, I think there's room for three blue-haired, sword-wielding lords, and honestly, more potential for variety. But I don't see Ike being cut and replaced, just because Roy was, and now all Smash games must follow that pattern of Marth-and-lord-from-latest-game.

All that being said, characters like Ice Climbers, G&W, and ROB don't have to worry about becoming outdated and irrelevant. They were already outdated when they were first included. Given the time and care devoted to crafting their movesets, it would make absolutely no sense to cut them now. It would take way more time to replace them than to revamp them.
R.O.B. was the central, titular character of the Subspace Emissary, for crying out loud. He had a bigger, more dramatic reveal in the game than anyone else.
As much as we are told that every Smash game is built from the ground up and they don't have time to bring back every character, they aren't going to scrap characters that they put so much time and devotion into resurrecting. The unique characters, especially the retro ones, are safe.
The only ones in danger of being cut are the ones who require permission to be used, who are neither classic nor viable for promoting current games, and who weren't all that unique among the other characters to begin with.
The vets I see at risk are, in order from most likely to least likely to get the axe, Squirtle and Ivysaur because of no tag-teams and no Mega forms, Wolf and Lucas because of their similarities to more popular characters and lack of relevance compared to newcomers, Snake because of permissions issues (although Kojima is apparently cool with it forever), and to a much lesser extent, Ike if Intelligent Systems wants him replaced.

That's my opinion, anyway. I could be totally wrong, haha. But I feel like the evidence points to this theory being correct.

PS
Sorry for the stupid long post. I have been keeping that to myself for a couple of months.

 

[Deleted member]

I do see a threat to Jigglypuff, but it's probably nothing to really worry about. Because Jiggly will be included over Mewtwo if push came to shove.

And you all know it.

I don't see why Sakurai/the Pokémon Company wouldn't include Mewtwo this game.

 

[Muster]

I don't see why Sakurai/the Pokémon Company wouldn't include Mewtwo this game.

Because people still treat seniority as an actual factor to inclusion.

Spoiler

by people i mean those who speculate. There is no proof that the game devs care about getting jiggs in this time because of seniority

 

[Pacack]

The wire frame mac will REALLY GRIND MY GEARS if we don't end up getting SS Zelda.

What if we get ALttP Zelda instead?

 

[IsmaR]

I don't see why Sakurai/the Pokémon Company wouldn't include Mewtwo this game.

I doubt many of us could follow Sakurai's train of thought/view on many of the choices, much less GameFreak's. I'm still steeled over from the exclusion from Brawl, but if Mewtwo doesn't make it back again, I could see it being one or more of the following:

- Sakurai/GF don't think much of fan requests/want in a situation similar to Pichu. As in they do note Mewtwo being in Smash was a great marketing ploy/cool gameplay idea, but the past is the past, and rather than regurgitate the old, they'd rather use new fresh faces/ideas.

- Going hand in hand with the above, GF specifically wanted newer representation not seen in Smash before, aside from the usual item/stage cameos. The quote of how Sakurai goes about adding new Pokemon characters seems to imply whatever they want/show (they could have predicted Greninja's popularity blowing up, for instance), Sakurai rolls with.

- At this point we have/have had 4 light/small Pokemon characters (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu and Squirtle), 4 mid-weight/average size characters (Mewtwo, Ivysaur, Lucario and Greninja) and only one large/heavy character (Charizard). Mewtwo is a special case in that he was large but floaty, but with the advent of both Lucario and Greninja being closer to the former (lighter/faster/smaller than mid weight/size/speed even), perhaps Sakurai/GF felt having 2 (much less 3) similar body build/weight class characters was pushing it, and preferred to add in another size character in favor of diversity.

- Sakurai/GameFreak took note of the complaints regarding Mewtwo's "balancing." Statistics like usage and popularity aside, there were instances of people going to extremes, like Serebii Joe writing the letter asking for Mewtwo's removal. While I highly doubt they actually took these things to heart, they may have steered clear of whole thing because frankly it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

- Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl. Short, sweet, and to the point.

 

[Kenith]

I doubt many of us could follow Sakurai's train of thought/view on many of the choices, much less GameFreak's. I'm still steeled over from the exclusion from Brawl, but if Mewtwo doesn't make it back again, I could see it being one or more of the following:

- Sakurai/GF don't think much of fan requests/want in a situation similar to Pichu. As in they do note Mewtwo being in Smash was a great marketing ploy/cool gameplay idea, but the past is the past, and rather than regurgitate the old, they'd rather use new fresh faces/ideas.

- Going hand in hand with the above, GF specifically wanted newer representation not seen in Smash before, aside from the usual item/stage cameos. The quote of how Sakurai goes about adding new Pokemon characters seems to imply whatever they want/show (they could have predicted Greninja's popularity blowing up, for instance), Sakurai rolls with.

- At this point we have/have had 4 light/small Pokemon characters (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu and Squirtle), 4 mid-weight/average size characters (Mewtwo, Ivysaur, Lucario and Greninja) and only one large/heavy character (Charizard). Mewtwo is a special case in that he was large but floaty, but with the advent of both Lucario and Greninja being closer to the former (lighter/faster/smaller than mid weight/size/speed even), perhaps Sakurai/GF felt having 2 (much less 3) similar body build/weight class characters was pushing it, and preferred to add in another size character in favor of diversity.

- Sakurai/GameFreak took note of the complaints regarding Mewtwo's "balancing." Statistics like usage and popularity aside, there were instances of people going to extremes, like Serebii Joe writing the letter asking for Mewtwo's removal. While I highly doubt they actually took these things to heart, they may have steered clear of whole thing because frankly it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

- Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl. Short, sweet, and to the point.

Of course, you think most of these reasons are poor, right?

Because I do. But it could happen.

 

[IsmaR]

Of course, you think most of these reasons are poor, right?

Because I do. But it could happen.

I'm not Sakurai. Nor do I pretend that he's above listening to any of these, much less thinking this deeply about it.

But yeah. I won't be happy with it, but it won't hurt as bad a second time.

 

[Rockaphin]

Well, I got my female Villager :D
Today's a good day.

 

[Phaazoid]

You, I like you. I'm in the same boat in thinking KI doesn't deserve a second character at this point in time. If we get a new KI character, but not a new DK one, I'll be furious.

Yep. I also believe Metroid deserves another rep way before KI, because, sure, Samus and ZZS are separate slots... but when it comes down to it, we only have Samus playable from the Metroid series. but unfortunately... well... that's still in the shadows up in the air

@ Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
I basically agree with 99% of that post. the 1% is I really won't be shocked at any inclusions/leave outs at this point. When you expect to be surprised, the shock value lessens a bit.

But i was a huge advocate for no cuts (other than the cloniest of clones) pre brawl, and I agree, the only exclusion that surprised me was mewtwo. I liked Roy a lot more until I went and played his game and realized how much of a little prick he was, xD

I just have trouble seeing them cut jiggles. Why would they drop a 64 vet? I feel those are the ones you start from.

I'm not Sakurai. Nor do I pretend that he's above listening to any of these, much less thinking this deeply about it.

But yeah. I won't be happy with it, but it won't hurt as bad a second time.

In regards to Mewtwo... and other things

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well, I got my female Villager :D
Today's a good day.

Yeah, great update for my birthday!
Hoping there will be more Villager alts than just alt. colors.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

That was a great daily update! I've been curious about a female villager for a long time, and the time has finally come!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This is going to sound weird, but I was literally thinking about the Female Villager yesterday...

BEHOLD. I AM A PSYCHIC LEAKER. KNEEL BEFORE ME AND I SHALL SHARE SMASH BROS FATE!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is going to sound weird, but I was literally thinking about the Female Villager yesterday...

BEHOLD. I AM A PSYCHIC LEAKER. KNEEL BEFORE ME AND I SHALL SHARE SMASH BROS FATE!

Faker.

 

[Phaazoid]

Faker.

After spending way too much time watching league of legends, I read this as a compliment

(there is a well known pro named faker)

 

[DustyPumpkin]

This is going to sound weird, but I was literally thinking about the Female Villager yesterday...

BEHOLD. I AM A PSYCHIC LEAKER. KNEEL BEFORE ME AND I SHALL SHARE SMASH BROS FATE!

Wow 100% True, no room for doubt, prophet of our age!

 

[False Sense]

This is going to sound weird, but I was literally thinking about the Female Villager yesterday...

BEHOLD. I AM A PSYCHIC LEAKER. KNEEL BEFORE ME AND I SHALL SHARE SMASH BROS FATE!

I don't see any earlier claim from you where you said the female Villager would be revealed today. If you did, though, you might have gotten a few questions about your source.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't see any earlier claim from you where you said the female Villager would be revealed today. If you did, though, you might have gotten a few questions about your source.

DUDE. I'm totes legit.

I'm the grand pubah of all Smash Bros leakers. I have visions! I SWEAR I'M LEGITIMATE!

...I bet more people will believe me if I tell them Ridley is playable

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

So, now I can finally play as the number 6 female Villager.
Now I REALLY think Dr. Mario is going to be in the game.