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Character Discussion Thread

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Pazzo.

Pazzo.

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Can anyone provide me with a decent argument of why Puffs should stay in? I've yet to find one.
 
Arcanir

Arcanir

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False Sense said:
In regards to the remakes having an impact on Smash...

I would think that if they did, we would have seen some new pokeball pokemon from Hoenn introduced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have. And going by Greninja's trailer, we've seen all of them.
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IIRC, the Greninja trailer was missing Xerneas and Arceus despite those two being confirmed, so there's possibly some more Pokeball Pokémon that we haven't seen yet.

Having said that, I still don't think these remakes will have that much an impact on Smash.
 
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Louie G.

Louie G.

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MaskO'Gears said:
Can anyone provide me with a decent argument of why Puffs should stay in? I've yet to find one.
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- Original 12
- Easy to make
- New Fairy typing
So there's no real reason to get rid of her. We can easily get 6 Pokemon since that's what we had in Brawl anyway (we almost had 7, actually).
 
Morbi

Morbi

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MaskO'Gears said:
Can anyone provide me with a decent argument of why Puffs should stay in? I've yet to find one.
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You have most likely found one, you just choose not to believe it. I am going to do this very fast as I don't want to waste anyone's time.
1. Jigglypuff is one of the Original 12; this doesn't mean she is safe, it means that people have been maining her for 15 years. How old are you? Subtract 15 from that and you will see just how long that really is.
2. Jigglypuff is one of the most unique characters, her play-style is unlike Kirby's despite the shared jump mechanics. Her shield and sing/rest make her VERY different.
3. Jigglypuff is easy to develop. This means that they can appease a huge portion of the fan-base very easily, she is cost-efficient. Why cut a character that offers so much when they aren't that much of a burden to develop?
4. Jigglypuff has found relevance with Gen 6; it is nothing definitive. But objectively, she has become more relevant based on her new-typing.

Jigglypuff is a very logical selection. If you assert that you use logic to dictate your perspective, Jigglypuff is obvious. She has nothing going against her. Trust me. It is your own disdain, it isn't actually evidence against her inclusion. People have tried... but they always use opinion statements alluding to subjective notions.
 
Bowserlick

Bowserlick

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Jiggs should stay. She is fun to play and fun to beat people with.

Her air game presence and unique specials really make her stand out.
 
Pazzo.

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
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@ Sebz Sebz
@ Louie G. Louie G.
@ Morbi Morbi

Alright, thanks! I totally forgot about her Fairy type.

I really haven't seen a decent argument, but you three gentlemen provided sufficient proof. Thank you.
 
N3ON

N3ON

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Sebz said:
@ Morbi Morbi

The way I see it, Gamefreak only brought back Mewtwo to lure in the older generation of Pokemon players back into the game, same reason they only gave the Gen1 starters a Mega-Evo. I really don't see them using him again from this point on, and since Gamefreak influences pokemon additions to smash I doubt they would push for him all that much.
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I don't think it was luring back old players (though that probably was some of it) as much as just using the most profitable Pokemon to help sell... a game that really didn't need any more help selling.

And just because they wouldn't push for him doesn't mean Sakurai wouldn't either. Even without Mewtwo they're already set with promotion... two Mega evos and a sixth gen, so I don't see them being too resistant towards them including a Pokemon that benefits... pretty much all parties involved tbh.

As far as popularity goes, Charizard beats Mewtwo hands down. In this regard I think Charizard takes the cake for Pokemon included due to popularity.
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Not as far as Smash goes. Charizard was likely included over Blastoise or Venusaur last time around due to popularity, but Sakurai was toying around with the Trainer idea since Melee, without Charizard. In fact Charizard has never really had an overly strong contingent of Smash support, while Mewtwo's, at least this time around, is overwhelming.

People always bring up the fact that Mewtwo was planned before, but at the end of the day the fact that matters is that he didn't make it in. For some reason or another Sakurai always puts him in the back of the production line. Which to me seems to be an indicator that he doesn't much care for him. Also if they (Sakurai, Gamefreak and Nintendo) thought that Mewtwo would be such a big copy seller in regards to the Smash franchise, they would've prioritized him in Brawl.
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If he didn't much care for him, he wouldn't have been planned at all. Obviously GF has their promotional agenda, which is probably one of the reasons why Mewtwo was given the short shrift last time, as his time in the spotlight had come to an end for then. Mewtwo was put at the end of the production line in 64, after two Pokemon had already made the roster, and there were only a total of twelve characters anyway, and Brawl, when he had just come off an overwhelmingly negative response from Melee, and four Pokemon newcomers given higher priority. In Melee, he was one of the more requested additions, and he was one of the priority additions. This time he is even more requested...

For me, the final nail in the Poke-coffin was the greninja trailer. Greninja's charge attack was an obvious misdirection intended to make people think it was Mewtwo, and it worked; just look at all the reaction videos on youtube as people clamor for Mewtwo before being surprised.
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If Sakurai can literally show a playable character in a non-playable role only to later confirm that character, which he did last time with ROB, a little misdirection (something present in the majority of the trailers so far) is hardly a "nail in the coffin". That's just Sakurai's style...

Plus I think the intent was to make Greninja ambiguous, not like Mewtwo. He didn't look the same as Mewtwo, and his charge attack, if anything, looked closer to Lucario's than Shadow Ball. People on Youtube might've thought that was Mewtwo, but they also thought Mega Man was Goku, so take that with a grain of salt.
 
jweb22

jweb22

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ArcticWolf said:
What? I was never disregarding the fact she was popular. It just seems to me that Puff being in because of her simple design is her only saving grace. And if they we're choosing a Pokemon character due to the anime, Meowth would've been the better choice for him being a much more recurring character in the anime moreso than Puff.
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I said that in my post because at the end of your earlier post you said, "that character had next to no reason for being in 64" which is incorrect as Jigglypuff at that time was a reoccurring character in the anime and was aided by easy programming thanks to Kirby.
 
Baskerville

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jweb22 said:
I said that in my post because at the end of your earlier post you said, "that character had next to no reason for being in 64" which is incorrect as Jigglypuff at that time was a reoccurring character in the anime and was aided by easy programming thanks to Kirby.
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That still wasn't implying that she wasn't popular. Hence why I said "next to none".
 
Louie G.

Louie G.

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Commander Claus said:
Meowth is one of those characters that I still wonder what an official moveset would look like.
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MEOWTH SSB4

Meowth is perhaps one of the most important and recognizable Pokemon due to his large role in the ever-popular anime. That being said I feel that Meowth definitely deserves a spot on the Smash Bros roster. While Meowth doesn't bring many new or particularly intriguing gameplay mechanics to the table, his tricky moveset revolving around quick combos and hitstun is enough to stand out from the crowd. And when you are an important character like Meowth you don't really need to be overly unique to make the roster.

Meowth's strength and defense are pretty lackluster, but he makes up for this in his excellent speed and combo abilities. While his cat scratches may not be too powerful, Meowth has many quick attacks can rack up fast damage that can definitely add up if used frequently. Some of his moves deal a considerable amount of knockback as well. Many of Meowth's attacks have hitstun, similar to Wolf's F-Smash. The two share the idea of scratches making up a good chunk of their moveset, but Meowth relies on scratching a lot more than Wolf. Meowth's jump is great due to his low weight, although he falls quickly due to the air not being his strongest area (although you can still pull off some great claw combos in the air). Due to being light, Meowth is easy to send blasting off, but he's got decent recovery options that can make up for it. It's key to get in close to your opponents to rack up damage, but Meowth has a short distance projectile attack that can at least give him some reach. Meowth isn't the best at grabbing, as he has a small reach, but his pummel is one of the best in the game if you can grab your opponent. His throws don't cover too much distance though.

Moveset:

Jab: Right claw, left claw, right claw
Dash: Meowth frantically scratches forward a few times
F-Tilt: A quick and weak claw attack
U-Tilt: A claw upward
D-Tilt: Two slashes forward, similar to Bowser

F-Smash: A strong claw attack that deals great horizontal knockback, similar to Wolf
U-Smash: Frantic clawing over Meowth's head
D-Smash: A small spin with claws out

Nair: Three scratches forward
Fair: A strong claw slanted slightly downward, meteor smash
Bair: A quick turn around to scratch twice
Uair: A claw upward, similar to Jigglypuff
Dair: A dive bomb of sorts, five fast scratches downward

Pummel: A painful scratch
F-Throw: Kicks the opponent forward
B-Throw: Spins around twice quickly to release the opponent, strongest throw
U-Throw: Throws the opponent upward and quickly slashes them
D-Throw: Slams the opponent down on the ground

N-Special: Pay Day
Meowth shoots gold coins out of the coin on his head in a very fast manner. It works very similarly to his Pokeball. The coins are short range but can be spammed very effectively.

S-Special: Feint
A quick slash that always hits first if the opponent is in range. Great for canceling moves that are just about to hit. Feint also has shield breaking capabilities.

U-Special: Fury Swipes
Meowth scratches upward a few times to cut through the air. Great for vertical recovery and results in major hitstun if sweet spotted.

D-Special: Fake Out
A very fast scratch attack that can stun an opponent for a short amount of time, leaving the opponent open for a strong attack or a combo.

Final Smash: Meowth Balloon
Meowth's famous hot air balloon flies in and Meowth hops in and pops back up with bombs in his hands. For about 15 seconds, Meowth can throw bombs down from the balloon at the opponents down below. If an opponent touches the balloon Meowth automatically tosses a bomb at them that never misses and causes phenomenal knockback, so don't touch the balloon.

Just a little something I can up with a while back.
I love Meowth so much. I would do practically anything to have him in Smash.
 
Bowserlick

Bowserlick

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After Greninja's reveal, people were speculating (including me) if a fully-evolved Grass starter would also make an addition to the roster to keep the Starter Trifecta intact.

This announcement just fuels the fire(and fertilizes the grass and rises the water).
 
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Bauske

Bauske

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N3ON said:
People on Youtube might've thought that was Mewtwo, but they also thought Mega Man was Goku, so take that with a grain of salt.
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Wait.... seriously? YouTube comments make me lose faith in humanity. xD
 
G0LD3N L0TUS

G0LD3N L0TUS

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MaskO'Gears said:
Can anyone provide me with a decent argument of why Puffs should stay in? I've yet to find one.
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I think Jigglypuff should stay because there's easily potential to make her as popular as she was in Melee because of the new speed and just general physics changes, and not even mentioning the potential to change up a few of her moves with Fairy stuff. Not only that, but there is no significant reason to cut Jigglypuff, either. I think cutting her just because she isn't as popular in Smash now is narrow-minded because it ignores the potential for the future.
 
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Pacack

Pacack

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R.O.B. said:
Sakurai loves clones, so Blaziken being a Falcon clone wouldn't surprise me.
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It would surprise me. At least Ganondorf and Captain Falcon don't use the same element. Would look less visually distinct than Ganondorf or Black Shadow taking it. (Keep in mind that Roy was chosen because of his fire attributes making him stick out better than Leif, who didn't have anything except light magic, which would look too similar to Marth to make a semi-clone out of.)
 
G0LD3N L0TUS

G0LD3N L0TUS

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3rd gen talk? OH BOY! Well, if we get a 3rd gen rep, I think it will be Sceptile. The only reason I`d doubt it is because Sceptile would move a bit like Greninja, but personally, I wouldn`t mind.
 
Rockaphin

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I hate Jigglypuff and would love to see her replaced, however she has no reason to be cut now. She's a series staple and a unique one at it. Now, I'll question why she was included in the first place but since she was, I think she has no reason to leave.
 
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